Ape is in a band now? (OU RMT)

[Wilechase]

Yes, I am bad at team names, thats beside the point. So anyways for the past few weeks after mence went uber, I have been experimenting with various teams so that I would have a good selection to use as compared to when mence wasn’t uber and I had a huge selection of teams. So for this team, someone gave me the idea of trying out a CB ape. So I decided to try it, and it worked very well, and the team has been very nice. I know improvements can be made, so here it is.


Team Building Process:

So I obviously started out with CB ape, since it was the focus of the team. His raw power from the band made it a force to be reckoned with.

So now I wanted to think of some support guys. First thing that came to mind to pair with ape was a scarfed flygon. I have been using flygon a lot lately and figured it would be a great help, plus maybe help ape out a bit.

So now I saw I might need a bit of bulk, maybe a steel resist. I looked around, and saw zapdos, who could help a lot with a few things ape and flygon couldn’t take. So I threw it right in.

Now I wanted something with a bit of special bulk to deal with ghosts and such. My instinct told me to go with a machamp, as he deals with ghosts very well, and can help with special side hits very nicely.

Now with how my team looked, I wanted one more special attacker before I picked my lead, as to have some coverage. I saw I had no water moves, so I thought about a suicune. With my team being able to deal with things suicune can sometimes fear, he seemed to be a good choice for a sweeper.

So now I just needed to finish off my team with a lead. For sure I needed something that could lay rocks, and I always like a lead that can beat other leads, or has support from the team to beat them easily. So my natural choice became azelf, as its one of my favorite leads now, and has been very reliable for me.

So now some holes came up, mainly with stall. That really bothered my team, and it was something I couldn’t avoid easily. Unlike most teams where I just disregard it, I decided to actually pursue this weakness. There were also a couple other things that could present problems. So first off, I changed flygons set, and changing it from scarf warranted a need to change something else so I still had a scouter. Jirachi stuck out as being a huge help, as I also needed a steel. The best place to put it was over machamp, and change zapdos’ spread a bit to compensate.

And this is how it turned out:

In Depth:

Azelf @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Spd/252 SAtk/4 SDef
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Psychic
- Fire Blast
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn
So here is my lead, life orb azelf. I never found a merit to running focus sash azelf, and someone gave me the idea of using an LO set awhile back. With this thing, I can take out common leads in one hit like machamp and metagross, then get up my rocks next turn or later in the game, and even function as a form of sweeper later in the game. So Psychic for STAB, Fire Blast for steels, rocks because lead and most needed thing in the game, and U-turn provides me with scouting and a way to get out if I am trapped. Plus it helps deal with some leads azelf can’t beat on its own.

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Surf
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Ice Beam
So with how the rest of my team was built, I needed some form of water type, and suicune fit the bill well. With its natural bulk and sweeping abilities, it’s an amazing bulky sweeper, which also gives me a check to gyarados. And with the rest of my teams support, he can get in a sweep fairly well. So Calm Mind to setup, Surf for STAB and not wanting to risk Hydro Pump missing, HP electric for opposing water types, and Ice Beam for fliers and grass types.

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP/220 SDef/40 Spd
Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Roost
- Thunderbolt
- Toxic
So with zapdos, I kinda knew what I wanted. One of the main reasons I wanted to use it was because I wanted to try the subroost set. With it, I can come in on something, sub up on the obvious switch, and scout them out, or if they stay in, take their hits and see what they do. After I changed flygon and switched machamp out for rachi, I opted for a more sp def spread, just to sponge a bit, and also change HP ice over to toxic to help with stall. So sub to be able to scout and stall with toxic, roost for heal, T-bolt for STAB, toxic for residual damage, and to help beat stall and wear down walls and other things. Also, threw a bit extra speed in to outspeed guys who hit 245, since that is a common speed to rest at.

Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Iron Head
- Fire Punch
- Ice Punch
- U-turn
Before I put this in, I was testing around with flygon just changed. I noticed the lack of having a scouter hurt, and not having the lead killing pair hurt me a bit too. I then thought about me needing a steel type, and a scouter, and jirachi came to mind. It fulfilled the scarfed revenge killer, scouter, and lead synergy role that I lost when I changed flygon. It was best to put over machamp as long as I made one change to help combat rotoms, as jirachi can check gengar alright. So anyways, Iron Head for obligatory STAB and flinch, Fire Punch to hit steels, Ice Punch to hit dragons and grasses, U-turn to scout out. I opted against trick just because I got two guys to deal with stall already, so its not a huge issue for jirachi to have trick.

Infernape (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spd/4 SDef
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- U-turn
- Mach Punch
So this is the main attraction for my team, CB ape. The power on CB ape is amazing, and gives me great sweeping power right away, and helps beat down shit well that needs to be. So Flare Blitz for STAB, CC for more STAB and beating down a lot of stuff, U-turn for scouting and hitting stuff on obvious switches, and Mach Punch for priority. I was against stone edge just because I tested it, and it didn’t do all that much for me when I ran it, and suicune and zapdos can cover stuff well enough.

Flygon (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 80 Atk/252 SAtk/176 Spd
Hasty nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Earthquake
- Draco Meteor
- Roost
- Fire Blast
So as I got rates for this team, I realized that stall would rip right through me. Normally I disregard it because of being primarily a wifi player, but then I investigated a suggestion made by The LegendKiller, who said try a stallbreaking flygon. I have seen people use it against me before and simply scoffing at it as it did some nice damage to me. I started testing some ideas around as to how-to incorporate it well, and sure enough, I got an amazing set-up with it, and started doing massive damage. With it, I can bluff the scarf, and nab the first surprise kill, then come in to do some other damage once I get rid of their main flygon killers, and those can even fall to this. So EQ for physical STAB to beat special walls, Draco Meteor for special STAB to beat physical walls, Fire Blast to hit skarm and forry and a couple other things, and roost to heal up to continue laying hurt.



So that is my team, I hope you guys like it, and give some good advice. Thanks for the read!

 

[afterburn]

I'm gonna start off by saying, solid team, especially one utilizing uncommon sets like CB Ape, LO Azelf and Sub Zapdos

Weaknesses
Calm Mind Suicune
Offensive Starmie w/ Recover
Dragon/Ghost/Normal weakness

How they're threats
Like I said, this is a solid team without too many major weaknesses, but those weaknesses really need to be covered. Firstly, Suicune doesn't get too many chances to come in, but when it does come in on Choice locked Flare Blitz Infernape, Suicune can set-up Calm Mind, and 2HKO or OHKO your team with Hydro Pump, Ice Beam and Hidden power Electric. You have to risk tying with your own Suicune. Sure, you could send in ape after it sets up and revenge with boosted CC, but you can't switch in directly, so something is going down. The next offensive water type, Starmie can also dent this team pretty hard. Nothing will be outspeeding it, and it can fire off powerful hydro pumps, that only your Suicune is resistant to, who's handled by thunderbolt. Sure, Flygon can handle it with U-turn, unless it has recover, it can simply restore its health from U-turn, which doesn't OHKO it. Your weakness to the above types will mean you're prone to Outraging Kingdra/Flygon, and Rotom can also prove to be quite a menace, along with Gengar.

Solutions
I think Offensive Leech Seed Shaymin will work wonders over Machamp, the weakest link in the team imo. The things machamp checks (Tyranitar) are already checked by other membersThe reason i say Leech Seed Shaymin is because of its ability to handle offensive AND be a huge annoyance to stall teams (which this team kinda dislikes to face). Shaymin handles those offensive water types just fine, with immensely powerful Seed flares, even without a life orb boost. Shaymin also gives you another Water resist, which is really good to have on any team. To top it all off, it completes the F/W/G core in your team.

here's the set:

Shaymin @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 32 HP/224 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Seed Flare
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Leech Seed

If you find the power lacking, then test out rest over leech seed, and life orb over leftovers. Shaymin also helps Suicune get recovery with leech seed as it sets up on threats that pose a danger to Shaymin (Bullet Punch Scizor).

To handle the normal/ghost/dragon weak replace LO Azelf with LO heatran for a resistance to all three types. He handles the same leads as Azelf bar Infernape (handled by other members anyway) and gives you a perfect switch-in to all three types with superior bulk to Azelf.

here's the set:

Heatran (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Stealth Rock
- Overheat

This will OHKO lead Machamp with Overheat and gets the same KOs as the Shuca Berry variant. It also gives Zapdos plenty of opportunities to switch-in vs. bulky waters that pose a threat to Heatran. Most of heatran's checks are handled by other team members, while they take advantage of his numerous resistances/immunities

Anyway, GL!

 

[Faladran]

Hey, it's Smogon's favorite Youtube celebrity! I have to say, I also like the creativity of the sets you're using, and this looks like a pretty great team already.

Notable Threats

• SubSplit Gengar

Gengar can be somewhat problematic for this team. It gets an easy set-up opportunity on Infernape when it's locked into Close Combat, and will deal significant damage to just about any switch-in. Probably the best way to deal with this is just to be careful about using Close Combat early game, but I'm sure you're quite aware of that already.

• Offensive Suicune

Opposing Suicune is actually a pretty big threat, as noted by TLK. Most of the reasons have already been mentioned, and the best way to deal with it is probably just to rely on Machamp's DynamicPunch to confuse it, and then wearing it down.

• Physically-based Infernape

Not too big of a problem, actually. The reason I mentioned it was because good players tend to save Infernape for late-game situations, and it has the power to 2HKO every member of your team. Suicune can switch in on anything but Close Combat, though, and Flygon can revenge kill it as Mach Punch will only deal 29.2% - 34.9%.

Suggestions

• Take TLK's Shaymin suggestion

Seconding his. Shaymin will help provide that useful Water resist, while maintaining a lot of offensive momentum. However, I would recommend using Rest over Earth Power, since Suicune already deals well with Heatran and the recovery provided by Rest and Natural Cure is too useful to pass up.

• Change Suicine's set slightly

This is purely optional, and may not be necessary if you decide to go with Shaymin. However, it's worthy of consideration if you find yourself having problems with Kingdra or any other bulky Waters.

Basically, Chesto Rest Kingdra sets up on the Offensive Suicune you're using, and opposing Suicune will stat-up alongside it. If you're willing to consider a change, I would recommend using Roar over HP Electric on Suicune. This will allow you to stat-up on most Water-types, and Roar them away if they try to set up also. An EV spread of 176 HP / 80 SpA / 252 Spe can also be used for some extra bulk, but you may prefer the Special Attack EVs for more power.

If you decide to go with this change, Gyarados becomes a bit more of a problem. Although most people won't keep their Gyarados in, Suicune will have a bit of a harder time taking it out due to the loss of HP Electric (although a +1 Ice Beam still does 32.4% - 38.4% to Bulky Gyardos, which is a chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock). If your opponent is brave enough to stay in and Taunt, or just does so not expecting an HP Electric, they may attempt to set up on you. Suicune has enough bulk to survive until it takes out Gyarados, but Thunderpunch can be used over Stone Edge on Flygon just as an extra revenge killing precaution.


Good luck with your team!

 

[Curtains]

Decent team but this team primarily loses to a well played stall team. The reason is you don't have any pokemon that can deal with it without extreme prediction. The first thing i would do is ditch u turn and go for explosion instead. With explosion you can guarantee something will die if they are slower than you. It is also helpful for cm jirachi who give this team issues.

Second you don't need max speed on sub roost zapdos because simply put you don't outspeed that much with max speed that you would with a different spread. Use enough speed to outspeed adamant lucario and heatran and then dump the rest into special defense and Hp. If you want to get really fancy then use enough speed beat timid rotom-a and dump the rest of the ev's in Hp and special defense.Toxic is better than hidden power ice. You outright beat teams that are not ready for it. The set is

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP/40 Spd/220 SDef
Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Roost
- Toxic
- Substitute

To out-speed defensive celebi and sub on their t-wave. very nice special wall which this team lacks.Without a special wall specs rotom becomes almost a sure check to this team say if you lock yourself into close combat or earthquake he can spamshadow ball on your "special tank machamp" 2hkoing him. keeping sr+spikes off the field is crucial and if you you might want to use taunt on azelf,the ridiculous coulbur elf works for this team. Agility lucario/ swords dance lucario rapes this team so don't let it set up.It out paces flygon ape cune champ and zapdos. Swords dance is alot more problematic expecially if they are jolly. my Suggestion would be to change flygon to a scarf jirachi because you lack a great dragon resist so that means that after stall teams shuffled you around flygon can come in and outrage killing most of the team with ease. Offensive Suicune can't tank many hits.

 

[Gideon]

I think you have a little bit of trouble with stall. You should change your machamp to sub machamp+three attacks as that sets beats stall extremely well.

 

[NitroMetalHead]

Hey Wile. One thing I see that your team will suffer against stall teams. Without machamp's confusion (either dead or dynamic punch ran out of PP), you're gonna have a little trouble.

Unless you are using this for wifi, where stall is rare, then the only problems I see are bulky starmie, suicune, gengar, and ape, but that's what flygon is for so...

 

[Nozizaki]

I'm curious as to why you run Jolly on ScarfGon? ScarfGon's usually run Jolly for 2 reason's:
1) As a check to Gyara w/ T-Punch
2)To Tie and stop the haxing of Scarf Jirachi

Neither is a large issue, so I'd recommend Adamant as the sheer power is very helpfully, especially against Starmie (As Faladran mentioned).

 

[Curtains]

I'm curious as to why you run Jolly on ScarfGon? ScarfGon's usually run Jolly for 2 reason's:
1) As a check to Gyara w/ T-Punch
2)To Tie and stop the haxing of Scarf Jirachi

Neither is a large issue, so I'd recommend Adamant as the sheer power is very helpfully, especially against Starmie (As Faladran mentioned).

Adamant is inferior to jolly. Agiligross and sub petaya empoleon sweep him with ease without jolly.

 

[Wilechase]

I honestly am hesitant to change machamp. It actually checks the ghosts and starmie decently enough. Changing machamp means I lose to ghosts, and shaymin wouldn't help that much against starmie, as it would take about the sameish, and still only be a check. And if I change azelf to tran, ghosts (mainly gengar) can still deal with it. It threatens rotom yes, but machamp could do the same. The machamp has always been a staple set of mine, and its hard for me to change it.

Suicunes spread I could change to a bit more bulky, but I would leave HP elec since gyara.

Why would explosion help more, especially when I already have two checks for CM rachi, and it doesn't necessarily help against well played stall.

I prefer zapdos' spread simply because the speed does work for it. I could lower it a bit, but its nice to outspeed gliscor and banded flygon and kill them both. Having the HP ice just has worked.

 

[Wilechase]

Machamp isn't checking Ghosts well at all. It's still 2HKOd by Gengar and Specs/LO Rotom's Shadow Balls, which means you still have no safe switch in to either. Just like any offensive team, you're going to have to play around Sub Gengar a bit, but considering both Zapdos and Suicune can take a single hit and break the sub to get Flygon or someone in, it's already checked decently. The fact that you're running LO Azelf without Explosion in the lead slot means you have another check to Gengar since in my experiences Azelf is often around late game. The only real reason to ever use ResTalk Champ is when you struggle against CB Tar, which you don't. Heatran gives those much needed resistances and a way of breaking stall.

Actually, I take 45.3% - 53.4% from gengar, so it provides a better check than anything else I could get. I just honestly don't see heatran helping as much, I guess I just never saw the merit around tran as much.

 

[Wilechase]

You're going to have to be at 100% or very close in order to beat Gengar, and even if you force it out once, it will come back in later and wreak havoc. The problem with Specs Rotom still remains as its a set that is gaining popularity and you will always be forced to sac someone to it. The same applies to Dragons. While you can easily revenge them with Flygon, you're going to lose a Pokemon every time they come in, and if you choose the wrong one you're likely to be swept by something else. I'm not sure how you don't see the merit in not having to go through this situation as often by running Heatran or something with similar resistances.

I guess I am just pessimistic and not looking at everything as a whole, but heatran can't beat gengar by any means, specs rotom would still do a number to tran, and dragons are often faster or I come in on a boost. Like I said, probably looking at it wrong, but I honestly have never cared for heatran, and half the time I use it, I find less of a use for it, but I can try it.

 

[Smith]

The sheer retardation behind the team name moved me to give this team a rate. In a good way.

Like others before have said, no steel types, no bueno. Azelf lead is great and all, but I'm going to agree that Heatran is going to do a lot better. I personally love the combination of Heatran and Suicune together, as Heatran dents/kills all of Suicune's problem Pokemon pretty easily with Explosion.

I'm not really sure how good SubRoost Zapdos is without Toxic or Toxic spikes. I think a simple physically defensive set is better for your purposes (I.e. not toxic stalling). It gives you a wider choice of moves to utilize to check more things, and you could even Roar away things like Kingdra.

Besides that, I think all of the above advice is golden, so consider some of that and you'll have an excellent team, love the creativity. Hope this helped.

 

[afterburn]

I understand if machamp is your "check" to ghosts, since you have used the team, you know better as to which of the team members handle which threats. Try out the Heatran lead I suggested, as I have a Pokemon in mind that can aid it in handling Focus Blast gengar and Specs Rotom-W. Try Choice Scarf Rotom-W over your current Zapdos. Both check similar things (Gyarados,SD Lucario,Bulky Waters). With this you outspeed any Specs Rotom-W, and KO with Shadow Ball, same with Gengar.

Here's the set:

Rotom-w @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 40 Def/216 SAtk/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Hydro Pump
- Trick/or Will-O-Wisp

Its also a great Pokemon for luring in Tyranitar for Machamp, so it can begin firing off Dynamic Punch.

With Rotom-W over Zapdos, you become a little weak to Stall, Trick being your only option in crippling it. I would say Mixape, but the team was built around it, and that would be useless to do. Instead, i think Mixed Flygon would fit in nicely over your current one.

Here's the set:

Flygon (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 80 Atk/176 Spd/252 SAtk
Hasty nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Draco Meteor
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Roost

You could experiment with evs a little; try 176 atk and 80 speed, will let you outspeed adamant lucario, but your team has it covered. Additionally you could run Max Satk/Max Spe to outspeed Shaymin (which aren't 252 invested in speed, thanks to using 32 in HP). But yeah, this makes a very nice stall breaker. It also lures in physically bulky mons like Swampert, Hippowdon, Gliscor, that trouble CB ape, and nails them with Draco meteor, as they switch-in expecting a weak earthquake. definitely give this a try

 

[Wilechase]

Well, I tested out the heatran leading and shaymin over machamp, and heatran just over machamp. Both times I was vying for machamp to be there, I guess I just became reliant on it. Plus, it does really provide the safest way to check ghosts and handle a couple other things. I also prefered my azelf leading a bit more, the u-turning out and the synergy to beat other leads was so much nicer.

Scarf rotom sounds kinda interesting, my only problem with it is the scarftar trapping and blah blah blah. I know smart play can fix it, but only so much it can do. And honestly, I never used zapdos to check gyara just because of the fear of SE and not much defense investment in zapdos. Zapdos did have a weird spot in the team, but it worked. I can try rotom, I could also make zapdos a bit more offensively oriented. Not sure really though.

That flygon does seem kinda interesting. The only thing I will miss is really the scarf factor which made its place and helped check certain things, and lead synergy with azelf and such. But I think if I play right, I will be just fine.

 

[Wilechase]

Alright, well I did some testing around with the team, and I have a couple ideas from your guy's suggestions.

So I first of all changed three things:
Flygon from scarf to special LO
Machamp to Scarf Jirachi
Zapdos to special bulky

So with flygon, I have been absolutely loving it. The suprise factor it brings is so nice, and its able to net some nice kills. My main problem with switching to flygon was the scarf, it provided nice synergy with my team being able to scout and such, especially with azelf to beat a few leads who azelf can't on its own (azelf and aero mainly). Machamp did seem like the most logical thing to get rid of, as I had a couple ideas. So first off, I wanted a scarfer. Since everyone said I needed a steel, and I needed a scarfer, jirachi seemed like the best choice, and has been working well to run around teams and get switches and stuff. Next I needed somewhat of a sponge for the special side. Zapdos wasn't a great physical sponge, so I figured its uses may be better off on the special side. I ran some calcs around on zapdos, and it could take some shit I needed well. So I went with a standard special defensive spread with a few more speed EV's to outspeed guys who hit 244 (I think). I put toxic over subsitute, as I figured I wouldn't need it as much. I think I might put sub over HP ice though, as having HP ice at that low speed isnt as useful, and I could toxic stall well probably.

So what do you guys think?

 

[Curtains]

This is a very good team now and i don't see any huge offensive/defensive weaknesses.The only problem would be stuff like Specs Jolteon who might predict the switch to your flygon and proceed to beat your team with specs Thunderbolt.You have stall well covered if you use Sub roost toxic and keep stealth rocks on the field at all times.Explosion is still the best choice over u turn killing almost every pokemon in OU instantly. Soild team, good luck.

 

[Wilechase]

Updated the main post with the changes, as they have been working very well.

Jolteon I can check with jirachi, zapdos doesnt die to it so I can at least toxic it as it t-bolts or something, then work around it. Still opting against explosion, u-turn is just too important to its leading spot and the synergy with the rest of my guys.

 

[Kabuto Mushi]

Just a small comment... You might want to consider running Naive instead of Hasty on your Flygon there. The extra defense is good for taking Stone Edges from Tyranitar.

 

[Wilechase]

Yea, I understand what you are saying. But I like taking heatrans on a bit more tbh, plus I have jirachi who can take SE's too, and ttar was never a huge concern to begin with.

 

[TrainerJon]

I'm curious. How does LO Azelf do against other leads. I like the sound of it! Can you get some logs vs. machamps, etc.. and t-tar for sure.

 

[SandslashPWNS]

I'm curious. How does LO Azelf do against other leads. I like the sound of it! Can you get some logs vs. machamps, etc.. and t-tar for sure.

Well, he does have a YouTube channel, link can be found in his sig, and it does do pretty good against other leads, especially since it carries U-Turn for scouting.

My rate: I feel that DD Gyarados is a massive threat for this team, even more if it has a Life Orb. The only thing that has a chance of taking it is Suicune, and Zapdos if it doesn't carry Stone Egde. For this, I suggest you give your current Jirachi Thunderbolt, as Thunderpunch is meh, and it gives you a better option against Skarmory. Try this specific set:

Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Naive | Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Spe, 240 Atk, 16 SpA
- Iron Head
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Punch
- U-Turn / Fire Punch

16 Special Attack EVs allow you to OHKO Bukly Gyarados with SR 100% of the time. That's all I have for ya! Good luck with your team.

 

[Wilechase]

As long as I have suicune, its not a major threat, and rocks can wear it down enough if suicune is gone and I can force switches at the very least. I prefer jirachis current moveset over anything for a scarf set. I have not had trouble with gyara yet, so I am not gonna worry about it tbh.

 

[Aqueos]

Thunder punch nearly kos even the bulky set already anyway.