Pokemon Black and White (SPECULATIONS ALLOWED HERE)

[sax king]

The ground ghost pokemon is awesome. Great design and great typing.
It gets No Guard in the dream world.
Klutz can be devastating if it learns trick.
Iron fist means it most likely can learn dynamic punch.
That means that No Guard + Dynamic Punch = great lead. It can attack ghost type switch ins with its STAB. In addition, it is immune to fake out and explosion and even to dynamic punches from machamp. with 89/80/80 defenses, it can survive hits from many other leads. It gets 124 Base Attack, which is really high. Its only let down is its base 55 speed, which makes it slow. Even still, I plan on using this pokemon.

 

[whistle]

[M476]: Other Bug PP: 20 Power: --- / Accuracy: --- Effect: Whenever an opposing PokÈmon uses an attack with a target of "single non-user" or "single opposing PokÈmon" this round and there is a Pokemon at the position of this attack's user, it is directed to the Pokemon at the position of this attack's user instead of to any other non-user of that attack. Remains effective even if user is replaced. Priority level 3.

uhhh so basically, whichever Pokemon this attack targets will attack itself when it uses 99% of damaging moves. or am I reading this wrong?

 

[Wishy]

uhhh so basically, whichever Pokemon this attack targets will attack itself when it uses 99% of damaging moves. or am I reading this wrong?

If I comprehend properly, in singles if you attack the user you damage yourself and if you use Calm Mind it will affect the opponent.

In doubles set up like

A B
X Y

If A attacks Y who uses said bug attack, then the A's attack is deflected onto B.

Wow.

 

[DDRMaster]

uhhh so basically, whichever Pokemon this attack targets will attack itself when it uses 99% of damaging moves. or am I reading this wrong?

It looks like another Follow Me to me.

Also, I've seen some people saying Damp Swampert will be good as a lead since Metagross can't blow up on it but there's a problem. Damp is illegal with SR since it's no longer a TM.

 

[IcyMan28]

Still unable to get over the awesomeness that is Blaziken, its like I'm playing Ruby and Sapphire for the first time. Forget Baton Pass for a second:

Blaziken@Life Orb
Naughty; 252 Atk / 40 SpA / 212 Spe
Speed Boost

Fire Blast
Stone Edge
Hi Jump Kick
Swords Dance

Blaziken returns to its RSE glory...the EVs give frightening stats of 372 Atk / 266 SpA / 249 Spe (1 speed boost outruns +Speed base 120s).

Calcs

-Hi Jump Kick vs. Walls; all calcs assume +2.

vs. 404/361 Suicune: (92.82% - 109.41%) OHKO with rocks.
vs. 404/306 Swampert: (109.16% - 128.71%) OHKO.
vs. 394/282 +1 Milotic: (81.47% - 95.94%) 53.85% chance of OHKO with rocks.
vs. 448/240 Vaporeon: (125.45% - 147.99%) OHKO.
vs. 420/368 Hippowdon: (87.14% - 102.86%) 53.85% chance of OHKO with rocks.
vs. 404/328 Manaphy: (101.73% - 119.80%) OHKO.
vs. 324/295 Starmie [never seen]: (70.68% - 83.33%)
vs. 384/372 Donphan: (94.79% - 111.72%)
vs. 338/364 Bronzong: (110.06% - 129.59%)

-Hi Jump Kick vs. potential 5th gen walls, all calcs assume +2

vs. 352/401 Abagoora [Water/Rock turtle]: (191.48% - 225.57%)
vs. 374/394 Gigaiasu: (183.42% - 216.58%)
vs. 386/392 Kobaruon: (178.76% - 210.36%)
vs. 344/383 Iwaparesu [Bug/Rock hermit crab?]: (102.91% - 121.22%)

-Fire Blast vs. 4th gen walls

vs. 404/328 Celebi: (66.83% - 79.21%)
vs. 334/262 Skarmory: (102.40% - 120.96%)
vs. Forretress: OHKO
vs. 338/364 Bronzong: (72.78% - 85.80%)
vs. 354/186 Gliscor: (67.80% - 79.94%)

-Fire Blast vs. potential 5th gen walls

vs. 320/246 Desukan: (56.56% - 66.88%)
vs. Nattorel: OHKO

I'm not even going to continue. The great thing is that the few things that can survive Hi Jump Kick...are highly Susceptible to Fire Blast in exchange. And with Steels annihilated by Hi Jump Kick as is, there may not even be a need for Fire Blast, freeing up a slot for Shadow Claw/Night Slash for ghosts.

-+2 Shadow Claw vs:

vs. 320/427 Desukan: (71.25% - 84.38%)
vs. 404/262 Burunkeru [Water/ghost]: (91.58% - 107.92%)
vs. 382/284 Goruggo: (89.53% - 105.76%)
vs. 404/328 Celebi: (73.27% - 86.63%)

Basically, Blaziken can forgo Fire Blast, pick up some kills on the new ghosts with Shadow Claw, and still run through Celebi.

 

[whistle]

It looks like another Follow Me to me.

Also, I've seen some people saying Damp Swampert will be good as a lead since Metagross can't blow up on it but there's a problem. Damp is illegal with SR since it's no longer a TM.

heh yeah you're right I misread "this attack's user" as "that attack's user"

much less exciting now...

 

[Missingno. Master]

Also, I've seen some people saying Damp Swampert will be good as a lead since Metagross can't blow up on it but there's a problem. Damp is illegal with SR since it's no longer a TM.

Well, we don't know just yet. Sure, Stealth Rock is no longer a TM. But they could very well have implemented it as a move tutor.

 

[manav95]

Infernape is fucked. Blaziken with Speed Boost is going to take him out of OU.

 

[MegaKick]

Still unable to get over the awesomeness that is Blaziken, its like I'm playing Ruby and Sapphire for the first time. Forget Baton Pass for a second:

Blaziken@Life Orb
Naughty; 252 Atk / 40 SpA / 212 Spe
Speed Boost

Fire Blast
Stone Edge
Hi Jump Kick
Swords Dance

Blaziken returns to its RSE glory...the EVs give frightening stats of 372 Atk / 266 SpA / 249 Spe (1 speed boost outruns +Speed base 120s).

Thats another reason why i see azumarill's aqua jet and breloom's mach punch being so usefull. Azumarill is probably a OHKO, breloom probably shaves off at least 60%.

Also, am I the only one thinking about zoroak? At first, everyone thought he would be top teir, but he isn't looking so good anymore. Priority bait, even more so than luke since he doesn't have that great typing. Hopefully he get's sucker punch

 

[Jiggy]

252 Attack Naughty Life Orb Blaziken with a Swords Dance up is going to literally knock itself out even from full health if a Ghost with low enough Defense switches in on Hi Jump Kick, like the Ghost/Fire. 596-702 would-be damage to the Ghost/Fire if it has 0 Defense EVs, unless I'm doing the calculation wrong, means Blaziken's eating 298-351 damage on the whiff. Not fun.

Aiming Mark Blaziken doesn't take that risk, but also won't have the raw power. Basically, I'd say Life Orb Blaziken with Hi Jump Kick is going to want solid Pursuit users or other Ghost-destroyers for companions.

Edit: Even against 252 Defense Impish Dusknoir we're looking at taking 166-196 damage from the miss.




Anyway, I'm so psyched for Drought Ninetales I almost can't believe it. It catapults one of my favorite Pokemon to greatness, gives a huge boost to two types that needed it (Fire and Grass), and helps stop Sandstorm teams.

It's not like Ninetales was never able to do cool things, but just that others could do it better. 100 Speed is actually looking better because this gen we have new Pokemon filling in oddball Speed numbers from 91-99, most notably two of the new Dragons and the Bug/Steel legendary, and Ninetales has options like Will-O-Wisp, the new 90% accurate Toxic, and Grudge to mess with them. If I had a Choice Scarf Ninetales and its accomplishments over the course of the battle were setting up permanent sun, hitting a bulky Water switch-in or some offensive Rock Pokemon with Toxic or Will-O-Wisp, and Grudging some Pokemon's Earthquake from 21% health, I'd be more than satisfied.

 

[Wishy]

Interesting tidbit: In the second town, there is a house overlooking the town. Inside there is a girl on the piano and a boy on the drums. If you speaking to them, piano / drums are added to the song playing in the town. :)

 

[Tobes]

Jesus. It's like Gamefreak said, "Hmm. How can we brainfuck Smogon as hard as physically possible?"

 

[Click]

Anyone else feel 90% of the metagame will be consisted of whether wars? Now that rain and sun can be found outside of Ubers, whether will probably dominate. Something even more so than the rain and sun, is the sandstorms which will be dominated by Tyranitars and Doryuzzu, who's ability is designed to sweep in a sandstorm. The massive amounts of whether will just bring in more Cloud Nine Altarias. Also, any speculations on the ability Week-Kneed on Aakeosu? Is the rumor true that it's stats are dropped when its HP reaches below 50%? If so, wouldn't it simply be the ultimate glass cannon? Even without a given movepool, this thing's attack and speed is lethal and will probably guarentee atleast one kill a match. Any ideas?

 

[Chateau]

I can't see a way around losing at least one Pokemon to Shadow Tag Shandera. It reaches a speed of 388 with a Scarf, while maintaining a record breaking SAtk stat of 427. Or it can reach a speed of 426 with a SAtk stat of 389. Anything outsped must survive a STAB Shadow Ball or Overheat coming off 427 (or 389) SAtk, which simply won't happen.

 

[Yamaha]

Jesus. It's like Gamefreak said, "Hmm. How can we brainfuck Smogon as hard as physically possible?"

So true. This Gen will be very different and open doors to many pokemons
and ones that were rejected because they either sucked or were overpowered for the metagame gets a second chance. Oh, and NFE pokemons might get into this Gen metagame due to Preevo stone. Say hi to Porygon w/ only 1 weakness and Recover.

 

[IcyMan28]

Thats another reason why i see azumarill's aqua jet and breloom's mach punch being so usefull. Azumarill is probably a OHKO, breloom probably shaves off at least 60%.

Also, am I the only one thinking about zoroak? At first, everyone thought he would be top teir, but he isn't looking so good anymore. Priority bait, even more so than luke since he doesn't have that great typing. Hopefully he get's sucker punch

Agreed - with all the crazy speed stats, boosts, and abilities going around, priority is finding itself with even more importance this gen, something I'm sure none of us would have suspected given its already overprominent status in Gen 4.

Zoroark looks like it could be decent. It outspeeds the base 100 crowd (whatever that's worth nowadays), and is a specially focused Dark-type, something we haven't seen aside from Houndoom and Darkrai. It will no doubt have its niche, plus it has the exclusive Illusion ability.

252 Attack Naughty Life Orb Blaziken with a Swords Dance up is going to literally knock itself out even from full health if a Ghost with low enough Defense switches in on Hi Jump Kick, like the Ghost/Fire. 596-702 would-be damage to the Ghost/Fire if it has 0 Defense EVs, unless I'm doing the calculation wrong, means Blaziken's eating 298-351 damage on the whiff. Not fun.

Aiming Mark Blaziken doesn't take that risk, but also won't have the raw power. Basically, I'd say Life Orb Blaziken with Hi Jump Kick is going to want solid Pursuit users or other Ghost-destroyers for companions.

Edit: Even against 252 Defense Impish Dusknoir we're looking at taking 166-196 damage from the miss.

This is a good point. Pairing Blaziken with something like Scizor is probably a good idea, although these ghosts are by no means safe. They could be in for a rude awakening should Blaziken be running a specially offensive moveset, and none of them will like taking a boosted Night Slash/Stone Edge to the face.

It's not like Ninetales was never able to do cool things, but just that others could do it better. 100 Speed is actually looking better because this gen we have new Pokemon filling in oddball Speed numbers from 91-99, most notably two of the new Dragons and the Bug/Steel legendary, and Ninetales has options like Will-O-Wisp, the new 90% accurate Toxic, and Grudge to mess with them. If I had a Choice Scarf Ninetales and its accomplishments over the course of the battle were setting up permanent sun, hitting a bulky Water switch-in or some offensive Rock Pokemon with Toxic or Will-O-Wisp, and Grudging some Pokemon's Earthquake from 21% health, I'd be more than satisfied.

Ninetales' rise out of obscurity is welcome. It has somewhat distinguished itself with Hypnosis and Energy Ball, but I can't help but feel that its been overshadowed by the likes of Arcanine and Houndoom. Drought changes all of that, and its respectable base 100 SpD means that it won't have too many issues coming in on Ice/Water/Grass/Fire moves.

I can't see a way around losing at least one Pokemon to Shadow Tag Shandera. It reaches a speed of 388 with a Scarf, while maintaining a record breaking SAtk stat of 427. Or it can reach a speed of 426 with a SAtk stat of 389. Anything outsped must survive a STAB Shadow Ball or Overheat coming off 427 (or 389) SAtk, which simply won't happen.

Shandara is interesting to say the least. It has plenty of resists, but also fairly common weaknesses and average speed. We'll have to see how the metagame shapes up to see if its power + Shadow Tag is that much worse than all the base 130 stats that were distributed like nothing this gen.

 

[Omnipresent]

I can't see a way around losing at least one Pokemon to Shadow Tag Shandera. It reaches a speed of 388 with a Scarf, while maintaining a record breaking SAtk stat of 427. Or it can reach a speed of 426 with a SAtk stat of 389. Anything outsped must survive a STAB Shadow Ball or Overheat coming off 427 (or 389) SAtk, which simply won't happen.

Which is definately why he's my new gave poke this generation. Tyranitar increases in play so much. Shandy will have to learn hp fighting or ground for that reason and still be threatened by the sandstorm boost Tyranny gets.

 

[Tobes]

Which is definately why he's my new gave poke this generation. Tyranitar increases in play so much. Shandy will have to learn hp fighting or ground for that reason and still be threatened by the sandstorm boost Tyranny gets.

Warubiaru > Tyranitar

 

[Zennoth]

I'm liking a lot of the stuff Black and White has introduced. I can See Wotter Shogun being a pretty decent mixed sweeper, though it's slow. What I really like is Terakion. Rock/Fighting? "Oh, it's gonna be slow. Wait...108 base speed...with 129 base attack...wut?" And it has decent bulk AS well as STAB Close Combat and Stone Edge. Oh look, Swords Dance. And on Ononokusu, it's gonna be a great...but I don't see it being in Ubers, cause it's special defense side is pretty low, as well as having average HP.

 

[Omnipresent]

^ this
It'll just be harder to do things in-game. at least being a TM would make it reusable

the main diff it'll make is that there are no new users (unless it gets learnt by level up!)

Question: what if you trade a pokemon that is holding the tm stealth rock, then you add the item to your tm section. Wouldn't it then be a tm in there and if so I wonder what number now?

 

[Tobes]

Question: what if you trade a pokemon that is holding the tm stealth rock, then you add the item to your tm section. Wouldn't it then be a tm in there and if so I wonder what number now?

Transfered Pokemon can't hold items, so this isn't a problem. (Although I do have to wonder how the new hold items will work... or if the old ones are even being brought back...)

 

[IcyMan28]

Items cannot be traded over from Gen 4.

EDIT: Ninja'd

 

[Nintenfreak]

We're positive about this? All items? Even berries?

 

[SigmaEpsilon]

My opinions on dream world Pokemon:


Speed boost Blaziken and Sharpedo:
OH.
SHIT.
Say "Doom". A set with Protect and BOOM Blaziken wins.

Skill Link Ambipom:
Does that power up Double hit?

Rough Skin Garchomp:
Lolwhut

Frisk Yanmega:
Lolwhut again

Thick Fat Mamoswine:
So it doesnt take damage from hail or sandstorm, its neutral to SR and now it lowers damage from ice and fire?
Someone say ridikalus.

Chlorophyll Venesaur:
Combined with Drought Ninetails.
Oh momma.

Absorber Legendary Dogs:
Alright, this seems interesting.

Dry Skin Jynx:
Even WEAKER to fire. Genius.

Flash Fire Typhlosion:
Yo is good is good, stronger Eruption on the switch in. Nice schtuff.

Iron Fist Ledian:
Is this just for comet punch?

Water Absorb Lanturn:
Mono-attack crocune killer right here.

Drizzle Politoed:
THE KYOGRE OF NU
MINUS THUNDER
EQUALS MEH

Unaware Quagsire:
I wondered why this wasn't ever his first ability. He always had that distant, glazed-eye look.

Intimidate Quilfish:
OH CRAP ITS A SPIKY BALLOON RUN

Unburden Sceptile:
Uh oh. This could end badly.

Technician Breloom:
Mach Punch boost...? Cant think of much else.

Scrappy Loudred:
AKA Crappy Loudred.

Pressure Wailord:
IF IT SITS ON YOU OF COURSE THERES GONNA BE PRESSURE

Water Absorb Cacturne:
But it's a cactus, it doesnt NEED that much water

Hydration Whiscash:
If you can't breed these abilities, then not fantastic. What could be better than dragon dance, rest, waterfall and EQ under a drizzle set up by Politoed?
*looks at Venesaur and Ninetails again*
Oh. Right.

 

[Omnipresent]

The Dream world abilities are CRAZY.

Drizzle Politoed, Drought Ninetales, Element Absorb Legendary Beasts, SPEED BOOST BLAZIKEN, Technician Breloom, Cloud Nine Altaria, Guts Luxray, Thick Fat Mamoswine...

This is ridiculous!

Holy shit thick fat mamo is pimp