The data thread says it can learn Calm Mind through TM.
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What Pokemon do you think is going to have the most effect in BW?
- Thread starter manav95
- Start date
It's not broken because it can do that, it was just an example. It forces Blissey to give up its coverage moves that it has been using for generations, along with using an inferior Calm Mind set instead of Wish + Protect or Softboiled + Aromatherapy. While Scizor can be seen as a liability, there is less merit to use Magnezone. You keep comparing the two, but it's like apples to oranges, two completely different beasts. Like I said before, this can trap anything without an ability or item that lets it escape. That means Skarmory (Flamethrower), Gliscor (ScarfHP Ice), Blissey (aforementioned CM), Starmie (Scarf Shadow Ball), Forretress (Flamethrower), Gengar (Scarf Shadow Ball), the list goes on and on and on. Seriously, if one more person makes that comparison, I'm done.
Calm Mind and Substitute are both listed under its TM learnset:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78985
So Wynaut is Uber, but allowed in LC? I never knew that. If LC can handle him, then Standard definitely shouldn't have it banned.
Shadow tag chandilier ghost pokemon hands down. Shadow tag plus calm mind? Broke.
I don't think you're understanding the concept of "Shandara is going to be useful vs. everything and more than likely on almost every team". Hell, I don't even fear Magnezone now, I just Bullet Punch whenever I want.
It's too early to tell which Pokemon is going to have a major effect, but I expect Nasty Plot/Vacuum Wave/Aura Sphere/Shadow Ball Lucario to rip holes in the metagame. Lucario even gets a new ability in the form of Justice Heart, which could be very promising. Coupled with its Swords Dance and Agility sets, Lucario seems set to be a versatile and dangerous Pokemon.
I completely understand your theory. However you are basing this new 5th gen Pokemon completely on 4th gen standards. Wait until someone ACTUALLY HAS A BATTLE before you start swinging the term broken around.
Why does everyone think the ghost candle is going to be uber? Wobbuffet was not uber for Shadow Tag alone, but rather for its ability to provide guaranteed setup for something else.
Is Dugtrio uber? I recall a lot of bitching about it in gen 3, but now he's barely used.
Though, with Sub + CM as I'm seeing it learns, it might just be as deadly as Wobbuffet against anything that can't break its sub. Slap on a Salac Berry, grab a few CMs, and away we go.
Is Dugtrio uber? I recall a lot of bitching about it in gen 3, but now he's barely used.
Though, with Sub + CM as I'm seeing it learns, it might just be as deadly as Wobbuffet against anything that can't break its sub. Slap on a Salac Berry, grab a few CMs, and away we go.
I think another issue with Shanderaa is that its trapping anything. Its not frail and will be very useful for stall since it can just trap a spinner or something. And, as pointed out. Sub + CM will be devastating to offensive teams. Not only that but 145 base SpA is going to hit like a truck.
lol. Dugtrio. lol.
The Ghost/Fire candle can reliably kill just about any OU Pokemon, given its gigantic Special Attack stat and its access to Substitute, Calm Mind, Shadow Ball, Fire move, and Hidden Power. Any team can tailor it to kill a huge list of OU Pokemon. It can beat Blissey, Breloom, Bronzong, Celebi, Dragonite, Dusknoir, Flygon, Forretress, Gengar, Gliscor, Heatran, Jirachi, Lucario, Magnezone, Mamoswine, Metagross, Roserade, Scizor, Shaymin, Skarmory, Starmie, and Swampert. A lot of these rely on different Hidden Power types (Dragonite, Flygon, Gliscor-HP Ice, Heatran-HP Ground, Swampert-HP Grass), but it still has the potential to take out pretty much anything your team needs. I feel like this is just pointless, but we'll see when we start actually playing..
Very true. Its still going to be a top threat I guess.
Yeah, somehow I had it confused with something else and thought it had like 40 base speed or so. With a scarf, it can probably be deadly.
Actually Iwaparesu might have some niche role in the metagame. Sure it has nice 125 Def and learns SR via level up. In Gen 4 we all saw how SR affected the Metagame. Perhapes SR might still have value enough in Gen 5?
Ah yes I did forget about that. However I guess that with Aiming Mark stall will struggle to keep there hazards up.
I'm not saying you're wrong in this but even on paper, dude, that thing is broken. Shadow tags, more bulk and resistances than starmie kinda shows where it's standings are. Not to mention the way higher satk it has. Even without shadow tag, many things are gonna get hurt. Steel comes in, then it easily just fire blasts it, bar heatran, then it becomes a case of do you fear tyranitar more or heatran, because it can learn hp ground or fighting.
Dude, this thing is broken. It sucks too because I liked this pokemon a lot before I even knew it's stats.
Shandera will most likely get banned with its typing, Shadow Tag, and great stats. I mean, its so easy to set up +6 CM with Shadow Tag and immunities. You can easily come in on a choiced poke locked in on an attack that its immune to, then thats GG right there. Even better, come in on a resisted attack and give it a Salac so you can sub down. Like seriously, +6 coming off base 145 sp attack is ridiculous. At least it's not part water though, that'll make it even more broken since it can use Swimming Goggles instead of SubSalac.
It's a shame, I love the thing.
It's a shame, I love the thing.
Dugtroi has 80 base attack.
Chandelier guy has 145 base special attack.
Dugtrio has one immunity (electric) and a few resistances (rock/poison) with awful defenses
Chandelier guy has fighting/normal immunities (fire/grass/poison/ice/steel/bug) with decent defenses
Dugtrio had to switch out almost all the time since it needed choice band to hit stuff
chandelier guy can set up with calm mind (i'm sure it got it) and substitute (which it did get)
wobbuffet had set up and this guy has set up. the difference is this guy's set up helps himself.
You COULD ban the ability, but then that's a scrub mentality.
Chandelier guy has 145 base special attack.
Dugtrio has one immunity (electric) and a few resistances (rock/poison) with awful defenses
Chandelier guy has fighting/normal immunities (fire/grass/poison/ice/steel/bug) with decent defenses
Dugtrio had to switch out almost all the time since it needed choice band to hit stuff
chandelier guy can set up with calm mind (i'm sure it got it) and substitute (which it did get)
wobbuffet had set up and this guy has set up. the difference is this guy's set up helps himself.
You COULD ban the ability, but then that's a scrub mentality.
Wow, its been a while since I last posted but B/W is just too exciting :) Shandera without a doubt will destroy the metagame as we know it in my opinion. With shadow tag it can carry a choice scarf and revenge kill so easily. Don't get me started on it getting calm mind from what i hear. Also I predict it being a reciever on the end of a baton pass chain.
Speed from Ninjask-> Ingrain-> Defense boosts and its gg. If memory serves correct then the only priority move that actually hits it is sucker punch isn't it? Mach Punch, Quick Attack and Extremespeed don't even hit and Ice Shard and Blaze Upper are not very effective. Also I'm very excited about Blaziken getting speed boost. I mean, use protect and its basically a harder hitting Infernape right?
Speed from Ninjask-> Ingrain-> Defense boosts and its gg. If memory serves correct then the only priority move that actually hits it is sucker punch isn't it? Mach Punch, Quick Attack and Extremespeed don't even hit and Ice Shard and Blaze Upper are not very effective. Also I'm very excited about Blaziken getting speed boost. I mean, use protect and its basically a harder hitting Infernape right?
Geez... since when did good players use choiced fighting attacks without fully scouting the opponents' team? Like I like to give gengar a free sub to start with, right? Gengar w/ sub=1 free kill usually, with the right set and good play.
Shandera is being overhyped. Only niche it probably see is the scarf revenger set, which will outclass dugtrio. But, both its STAB's have immunities, and it will be prone to being set up in this super-offensive metagame. Without scarf, it's too slow to guarantee anything. Granted, it has a good chance to revenge kill, but so does Jirachi, Flygon, Scarftar, Scarftran.... and without scarf, it's gonna take shitton from neutral STAB damage, or even worse, SE coverage coming from high attacks, at the least before it gets the kill, leaving shandera at around 25%. Now you start seeing this is a manageable threat.
Also: c'mon guys, this is not going to be as bulky as Starmie. Starmie has FANTASTIC typing. Shandera? Not so much. Besides, it has common weaknesses all over: EQ, Crunch and Surf, to name a few. He is probably going to be another option for a trapper that can revenge different sets of pokemon from Dugtrio.
@the Blissey comments: Remember Dugtrio when it got arena trap and we're like ZOMG ~SkArMbLisS~ is going down man. I say as the first metagame will be offensive, people will see Shandera's weaknesses. Less and less people will use Shandera to begin with, and if it goes BL only because of sheer usage stats (look what happened to Porygon2, people, good pokemons in OU get dropped randomly just to never come back) then now stall blissey can start running std blissey. Also, this is pure speculation, but Bliss gets a new ability that sounds like regeneration or something? it sounds like it would be similar to lefties. Then we can run Aromatherapy Bliss, with shed shell instead of lefties.
Also, @cks: Aqua Jet is a priority that also can hit Shandera super effective...
Alix: I think I wasn't being clear, but the immunity thing was there because it means sure set-up opportunity every time shandera gets a kill. And personally i don't believe in revenge kills because you're playing catch-up and you let the opponent to set up one more time.
Shandera is being overhyped. Only niche it probably see is the scarf revenger set, which will outclass dugtrio. But, both its STAB's have immunities, and it will be prone to being set up in this super-offensive metagame. Without scarf, it's too slow to guarantee anything. Granted, it has a good chance to revenge kill, but so does Jirachi, Flygon, Scarftar, Scarftran.... and without scarf, it's gonna take shitton from neutral STAB damage, or even worse, SE coverage coming from high attacks, at the least before it gets the kill, leaving shandera at around 25%. Now you start seeing this is a manageable threat.
Also: c'mon guys, this is not going to be as bulky as Starmie. Starmie has FANTASTIC typing. Shandera? Not so much. Besides, it has common weaknesses all over: EQ, Crunch and Surf, to name a few. He is probably going to be another option for a trapper that can revenge different sets of pokemon from Dugtrio.
@the Blissey comments: Remember Dugtrio when it got arena trap and we're like ZOMG ~SkArMbLisS~ is going down man. I say as the first metagame will be offensive, people will see Shandera's weaknesses. Less and less people will use Shandera to begin with, and if it goes BL only because of sheer usage stats (look what happened to Porygon2, people, good pokemons in OU get dropped randomly just to never come back) then now stall blissey can start running std blissey. Also, this is pure speculation, but Bliss gets a new ability that sounds like regeneration or something? it sounds like it would be similar to lefties. Then we can run Aromatherapy Bliss, with shed shell instead of lefties.
Also, @cks: Aqua Jet is a priority that also can hit Shandera super effective...
Alix: I think I wasn't being clear, but the immunity thing was there because it means sure set-up opportunity every time shandera gets a kill. And personally i don't believe in revenge kills because you're playing catch-up and you let the opponent to set up one more time.
@ Jolteon. you know that it can set up on things other than Choiced Fighting moves right?
Blissey is set up fodder and so is Specially based Mixape I believe. (among others)
Blissey is set up fodder and so is Specially based Mixape I believe. (among others)