I've updated the first post with a list of egg moves that Dorzuuyu gets through breeding. There is pretty much nothing of note in the list at all.
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Excadrill
- Thread starter Rising_Dusk
- Start date
Politoed isn't really a counter, but more of a revenger. It can only come in on: a) Predicted Swords Dance, and b) Well, like revengers do, when Dory's has KO'd something. It also needs Choice Scarf to be able to outspeed Dory (88 vs Poli's paltry 70). Threatening with 2xSTAB Surf really does, uh, pardon the pun, rain on Dory's parade ;)
Yeah, when I saw this guy at first my initial thought was this - POWERHORSE. With some little bit of support it may be extremely deadly, especially if Aiming Mark works like we think it works. Anyway, it has all neccesary tools to work here. He may have quite poor defenses, however it has great resistances/immunities to easily find this free turn, especially on some Choice attacks. But I think that you may add here some checks:
a) X-Scissor may be a problem here, otherwise our Pixies with Reflect handles it nicely. Cresselia, Uxie and Mesprit may check it and Cressy + Mesprit may hit with Ice Beam/Grass Knot for solid damage. I just hope that Cresselia will gain Recover this Gen, as she may be hope for stall in handling these new monsters this Gen, mostly Dragons and our Dory here.
b) Tangrowth. It's so bulky, that I'm sure it survives Swords Dance boosted X-Scissor (without Life Orb) and retaliate with Earthquake/Power Whip.
c) Surprisingly I think pokemon which may check Dory is (without X-Scissor) is Ludicolo. It resist both of his STAB and has good enough special attack to take it down in one hit. Especially without Sandstorm in.
I also think that offensively, Salamence + Dory offensive synergy sounds beastly. Salamence bait some of Dory checks like Skarmory and Bronzong, while it may easily set-up on those Aqua Jets/Mach Punches aimed on Dory. Also Salamence takes easily on Dory weaknesses to -Fire, -Ground and -Fighting. I see here some really deadly combination. I would probably go with Dragon Dance/Outrage/Draco Meteor/Fire Blast or EQ Salamence as it would easily lure those physical walls, which could try to stop Dory. Sounds neat ;).
a) X-Scissor may be a problem here, otherwise our Pixies with Reflect handles it nicely. Cresselia, Uxie and Mesprit may check it and Cressy + Mesprit may hit with Ice Beam/Grass Knot for solid damage. I just hope that Cresselia will gain Recover this Gen, as she may be hope for stall in handling these new monsters this Gen, mostly Dragons and our Dory here.
b) Tangrowth. It's so bulky, that I'm sure it survives Swords Dance boosted X-Scissor (without Life Orb) and retaliate with Earthquake/Power Whip.
c) Surprisingly I think pokemon which may check Dory is (without X-Scissor) is Ludicolo. It resist both of his STAB and has good enough special attack to take it down in one hit. Especially without Sandstorm in.
I also think that offensively, Salamence + Dory offensive synergy sounds beastly. Salamence bait some of Dory checks like Skarmory and Bronzong, while it may easily set-up on those Aqua Jets/Mach Punches aimed on Dory. Also Salamence takes easily on Dory weaknesses to -Fire, -Ground and -Fighting. I see here some really deadly combination. I would probably go with Dragon Dance/Outrage/Draco Meteor/Fire Blast or EQ Salamence as it would easily lure those physical walls, which could try to stop Dory. Sounds neat ;).
Except that +2 X-scissor OHKOes Ludicolo. The same actually applies to your suggestion of Tangrowth and all of the Psychic-type Levitaters. X-Scissor may be the best Doryuuzu has access to, but it's actually quite good at covering all of the assorted Pokemon that his EdgeQuake can't really nail.Garganator said:
Well I said that Ludicolo works without X-Scissor, as I'm sure it goes down with it. Tangrowth probably survives with Aiming Mark on (need to check to be sure), however with Life Orb may struggle and Cresselia also has problems it she faces Life Orb variant. But anyway, Dory will have little 4 moveslot syndrome and mostly item choice syndrome. When it lacks X-Scissor - Grass-types and Levitating Psychic-types handles it well. Without Stone Edge, with SR being much more crippled thanks for Aim Mark, Moltres checks it nicely, Fire/Electric Rotom with Levitate too, it's also worth to add here Gliscor, Randorosu, Borutorosu and Zapdos (however all this fail against Aiming Mark x_X). But yeah, choice between Aiming Mark and Life Orb may be hard, as without Life Orb most bulky walls survives, without Aiming Mark some nasty counters stops it without problems.
You are really underestimating 110/60/60 defenses. Tangrowth will be 2HKOed easily by a +2 X-Scissor, while neither Power Whip nor Earthquake will return a OHKO. The best Tangrowth can do is Sleep Powder or Stun Spore, but those aren't reliable in the slightest. Same thing with the pixies. Ice Beam and Grass Knot won't be doing enough, and it is immune to Thunder Wave. If they decide to show their faces, it can set up two more Swords Dances and proceed to sweep. Aiming Mark pretty much nullifies any checks that rely on immunity to Earthquake.
The best checks are bulky Waters, without a doubt, along with Politoed and Ninetales. Other than that, it seems like it'll be pretty difficult to stop it.
Doryuuzu's one of my favorites this gen, pretty much everything I wanted Sandslash to be and everything Salamence isn't. Incredible Attack, solid Speed even outside of Sandstorm, and easy to get in. It's not perfect, though. A few Pokemon I can think of that I like to use that aren't bulky waters and still have potential to switch in on, revenge, or just do something to stop Doryuuzu in a tight spot:
Salamence: This one's a bit iffy since Salamence needs some Defense EVs to survive a +1 Intimidated Rock Slide even from a Jolly nature, but if absolutely necessary, it can switch in after a teammate's been KOed and hit Fire Blast. Even if it doesn't have that investment, it might bluff the Doryuuzu into retreating, which is something. On to better options, though...
Hippowdon: If the sand's already blowing, might as well bring it in. It can take +2 Adamant Earthquakes, so it can safely switch in on Doryuuzu no matter what it might be using and threaten Earthquake. 0 Attack Impish Hippowdon's Earthquake does 360 damage minimum and the mole had 361 HP, which is perfect. If Doryuuzu starts to swing toward higher HP in the metagame, Hippowdon can shift its own EVs since it has defensive power to spare. If Doryuuzu is expected to switch instead of taking the Earthquake, Yawn is a nice catch-all.
Gliscor: Gliscor isn't quite as safe as Hippowdon since Adamant +2 Earthquake with Aiming Mark (a more threatening item to Gliscor than Life Orb or Choice Band since it allows Doryuuzu's best move both in base power and STAB) hits for 312-367 damage, which has a shot at OHKOing 252/4 physical Defense. Still, it can switch in on an unboosted Earthquake and in a pinch after a teammate's been KOed, it can manage against a Swords Danced mole more often than not. Gliscor's 0 Attack Earthquake only has a slight chance to OHKO a full-health Doryuuzu, but 312 damage minimum is a solid start that will cause problems if one layer of Spikes are down or the mole's taken damage from pretty much anything else. Sand Veil can also cause problems for Doryuuzu by avoiding attacks entirely.
Dusknoir: This Ghost has two options. First, it can OHKO with a Choice Band. Even 252 HP/0 Defense Impish Dusknoir would survive +2 Earthquake from full-health about half the time (267-315 damage), and meanwhile even 0 Attack Choice Band Impish (not Adamant) Dusknoir reaches 326 damage minimum on a 0 Defense Doryuuzu with Earthquake. As you can see, it has a lot of room to play if it wants a guaranteed OHKO on full-health while still keeping its great tanking abilities. If that doesn't sound like an appealing idea, Dusknoir can just take the Earthquake and Will-O-Wisp Doryuuzu's Attack down to manageable levels, hit Pain Split to turn its huge base 110 HP against it, use Trick Room to shoot down its boosted Speed, or any combination of the above.
Salamence: This one's a bit iffy since Salamence needs some Defense EVs to survive a +1 Intimidated Rock Slide even from a Jolly nature, but if absolutely necessary, it can switch in after a teammate's been KOed and hit Fire Blast. Even if it doesn't have that investment, it might bluff the Doryuuzu into retreating, which is something. On to better options, though...
Hippowdon: If the sand's already blowing, might as well bring it in. It can take +2 Adamant Earthquakes, so it can safely switch in on Doryuuzu no matter what it might be using and threaten Earthquake. 0 Attack Impish Hippowdon's Earthquake does 360 damage minimum and the mole had 361 HP, which is perfect. If Doryuuzu starts to swing toward higher HP in the metagame, Hippowdon can shift its own EVs since it has defensive power to spare. If Doryuuzu is expected to switch instead of taking the Earthquake, Yawn is a nice catch-all.
Gliscor: Gliscor isn't quite as safe as Hippowdon since Adamant +2 Earthquake with Aiming Mark (a more threatening item to Gliscor than Life Orb or Choice Band since it allows Doryuuzu's best move both in base power and STAB) hits for 312-367 damage, which has a shot at OHKOing 252/4 physical Defense. Still, it can switch in on an unboosted Earthquake and in a pinch after a teammate's been KOed, it can manage against a Swords Danced mole more often than not. Gliscor's 0 Attack Earthquake only has a slight chance to OHKO a full-health Doryuuzu, but 312 damage minimum is a solid start that will cause problems if one layer of Spikes are down or the mole's taken damage from pretty much anything else. Sand Veil can also cause problems for Doryuuzu by avoiding attacks entirely.
Dusknoir: This Ghost has two options. First, it can OHKO with a Choice Band. Even 252 HP/0 Defense Impish Dusknoir would survive +2 Earthquake from full-health about half the time (267-315 damage), and meanwhile even 0 Attack Choice Band Impish (not Adamant) Dusknoir reaches 326 damage minimum on a 0 Defense Doryuuzu with Earthquake. As you can see, it has a lot of room to play if it wants a guaranteed OHKO on full-health while still keeping its great tanking abilities. If that doesn't sound like an appealing idea, Dusknoir can just take the Earthquake and Will-O-Wisp Doryuuzu's Attack down to manageable levels, hit Pain Split to turn its huge base 110 HP against it, use Trick Room to shoot down its boosted Speed, or any combination of the above.
Yeah I think bulky Waters are really the way to go here. If Aiming Mark really exists, then Pokemon like Skarmory are not going to be adequate for handling Doryuuzu. I was thinking of some responses to him, and I actually think that Gyarados will do pretty well. Gyarados can Intimidate down his Attack a lot and then use STAB Aqua Tail to pretty much crush Doryuuzu. Bulky Gyarados spreads can also take a +1 EQ without being OHKOed either, which is very important if Aiming Mark is taken into account. Those same bulky spreads can take the +1 Rock Slide (which is actually not that strong, all things considered).blasphemy01 said:
Do those calcs factor in SR?
Doryuuzu can be a dangerous opponent, it is a great teammate of Tyranitar/Hippowdon (due to its abilities) and Gyarados (due to the synergical compatibility). Its 3 abilities (Sand Throw, Sand Power and Mold Breaker) are very useful, and 135 attack base stats sound even stronger with Sword Dance or Claw Sharpen and moves like Earthquake and Rock Slide, i think it is better if before you have ended with some counters like Skarmory with Magnezone, thereafter it could easily be able to end with the rest of the opponent team (with some Sandstorm support).
Actually, Rotom-H counters Doryuuzu pretty well. With resistance his STABs and X-Scissor, Rotom can WoW Doryuuzu rendering him useless. Perfect partner of Doryuuzu is a Water type mon ( Not Gyarados)
That's exactly what I was thinking :(.
Like pretty much everyone else has already said this looks like a very promising sweeper.
Actually Rotom-H can't handle Doryuzuu's Rock Slide.
Adamant +2 Doryuuzu vs max hp/max def bold Rotom deals 54.6% - 64.14% damages. Doryuuzu could get also Substitute in the last slot.
I'm personally impressed by this one. Good movepool, stats, abilities... I agree aiming mark will be big for it.
The only thing I can't believe is "Troll". I swear that was a joke. I'm not going into detail because this isn't meant to discuss moves, but...
seriously.
The only thing I can't believe is "Troll". I swear that was a joke. I'm not going into detail because this isn't meant to discuss moves, but...
seriously.
As far as people can tell from testing, pokemon with aiming mark cant hit immunites. We have no clue what the hell aiming mark actually does atm.
BurningMan
fueled by beer
i have heard from ppl who got the game that t-wave doesnt hit ground types
^ How so ? Ghosts are immune to Normal due to their typing, not due to their ability.
Mold Breaker will only make it hit Rotom and Bronzong with Earthquake which can be helpful, but it's other abilities are much more threatening.
[idk if this was posted before] Shandrea makes a great teammate for Doryuzuu to get rid of Rotom-A and other fire types threatening Doryuzuu.
Mold Breaker will only make it hit Rotom and Bronzong with Earthquake which can be helpful, but it's other abilities are much more threatening.
[idk if this was posted before] Shandrea makes a great teammate for Doryuzuu to get rid of Rotom-A and other fire types threatening Doryuzuu.
Doryuuzu @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly (+Spe, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- X-Scissor
- Rapid Spin
Forgoes sweeping potential for revenging potential. Eats Rotom, Gengar, and Electric-type Levitator (if that's used in OU) all with SE EQ. If Rapid Spin is expected, it hits Rotom and Sherandaa with strong predicted EQs. X-Scissor can be used to take out Starmie if the Sand isn't up and they don't expect a Scarf.
Doryuuzu @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Power
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly (+Spe, -SAtk) / Adamant (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- X-Scissor
- Rapid Spin
Sheer power, really. Sand Power coupled with Choice Band and base 135 attack (and STAB on EQ) will make him hit hella hard. Even resisted EQs will hit extraordinarily hard. Spamming a Rock Slide will hit Levitators and Flying types who expect to come in on EQ pretty hard. Jolly can outspeed all non-scarved Rotom, as well as unboosted Dragonite and Gyarados (although he probably doesn't have business switching in on either). Maybe a bit too slow. Would be interesting to allocate some speed EVs to making him bulkier with that handy 110 base HP.
Sand Throw probably is his best ability, but he's very diverse with access to Mold Breaker and Sand Power as well. They both can be used to hit things hard which would otherwise wall the Sand Throw set, like Rotom and Skarmory (I think... I haven't calced but I believe Rock Slide on the second set there would 2HKO Skarm). This makes it a pretty good partner to pave the way for Gyara or something like that.
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly (+Spe, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- X-Scissor
- Rapid Spin
Forgoes sweeping potential for revenging potential. Eats Rotom, Gengar, and Electric-type Levitator (if that's used in OU) all with SE EQ. If Rapid Spin is expected, it hits Rotom and Sherandaa with strong predicted EQs. X-Scissor can be used to take out Starmie if the Sand isn't up and they don't expect a Scarf.
Doryuuzu @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Power
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly (+Spe, -SAtk) / Adamant (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- X-Scissor
- Rapid Spin
Sheer power, really. Sand Power coupled with Choice Band and base 135 attack (and STAB on EQ) will make him hit hella hard. Even resisted EQs will hit extraordinarily hard. Spamming a Rock Slide will hit Levitators and Flying types who expect to come in on EQ pretty hard. Jolly can outspeed all non-scarved Rotom, as well as unboosted Dragonite and Gyarados (although he probably doesn't have business switching in on either). Maybe a bit too slow. Would be interesting to allocate some speed EVs to making him bulkier with that handy 110 base HP.
Sand Throw probably is his best ability, but he's very diverse with access to Mold Breaker and Sand Power as well. They both can be used to hit things hard which would otherwise wall the Sand Throw set, like Rotom and Skarmory (I think... I haven't calced but I believe Rock Slide on the second set there would 2HKO Skarm). This makes it a pretty good partner to pave the way for Gyara or something like that.
Are you sure you calculated on Rotom-H ? A super-effective attack from a Pokemon with 810 [after Swords Dance, if i'm not mistaken] seems too much on a Rotom-H to handle even if it's max Def and HP..