A new generation of weather abuse

Personally I cannot wait to try out my two favourite weathers, Sun and Sand, in the Gen V environment.

I honestly believe that Ninetales will singlehandedly make Sun an OU weather condition. Its main hinderance was that without an auto-inducer Sand (usually) would overrun it with ease in OU, as well as a lack of power compared to rain.

So many things have served to power up Sun drastically in the generation jump: Speed Boost Blaziken, Solar Power Zard, Butterfly Dance Urogamosu, Shanderaa for powered up trapping utility as well as countering other weather users are good examples solely on the fire side of things.

The multitude of new Chlorophyll abusers gives us a large range of viable and slightly differing users now - Leafeon, Venusaur, Hahakurimo, (all viable threatening sweepers), Doreida (a nice new cleric with decent SpAtk), and Erufuun (a new Jumpluff with even higher speed, encore, better SpAtk and of course the new giga drain).

New grass and fire moves as well will assist this playstyle greatly, too.

In terms of Sand, I absolutely love Doryuuzu. It's a shame he's the most powerful Sand Power user, because he will almost certainly be better off using Sand Throw. Sandslash getting it will be good for UU but the mole outclasses him pretty much entirely. The Genie looks pretty threatening with Sand Power and 101 speed, however, though not much aside from Hippowdon does (forfeiting his Sand Stream). It'll be interesting to see if people use a backup weather inducer or not for sand as well.
 
Since I'm a rebel, I've actually been planning a sort of anti-weather team. Tyranitar for changing the weather, Altaria for halting weather and walling most Sun abusers, and Nattorei (Grass/Steel) for countering Rain. I think anti-weather will be a lot easier to run simply because it's safer since you don't rely on the weather for your victory. I've been running a lot of different scenarios in my head and I'm confident it'll be at least decent.
 
I'm tempted to run Abomasnow in a balanced team as a way to have a constant weather-checker by invoking a weather status that is probably not going to benefit 90% of weather-based teams (since hail is the rarer weather-team of the bunch).

Of course I could just run tyranitar like everyone else, but in expecting that I'd probably make sure I have something to abuse sandstorm somewhere in my team.
 
I think Weather is the lesser of my concerns about the 5th Gen Metagame.

Seriously. I think Ononokusu, Shanderaa, Speed Boost Blaziken and Mischievous Heart Erufuun are much more threatening than Rain Sweepers or a couple Chlorophyll users. Not that they aren't a threat, but there are so many way to stop Weather now: Cloud Niners, TTar/Abomasnow/Politoed/Ninetales (Weather inducers themselves, but you never know), Mischievous Heart... heck, even Trick Room is looking like useable right now. So yeah.
 
when i first got into the metagame i saw all the stratigies for castform but they were all too dependent on one weather so i used one with thunder, blizzard, solarbeam, and weatherball.
 
Politoed, is my little friend I think for this Gen. Having Drizzle, and Nattorei and the Water/Ghost, I plan on some Big chaos.

Tentacruel was a Big favorite of mine this gen, I liked using it with a Choice Scarf, and Oh how she flew :D Now Rain Dish?

:heart:SPLEE XD


Nattorei's biggest weakness gets a damper on it... Not to mention that Ice Polar Bear with Swift Swim, Taking on some grass types.

There's always the reliable Kingdra, and Even Seaking seems interesting..
 
With the improved Magic Coat and Giga Drain, Abomasnow may find plenty of use as a Seed-staller of sorts. Keep in mind Abomasnow is the only Pokemon who auto-creates Hail, and as such, it should be made to fit a Defensive play-style.


Lead Set:

Stallasnow @ Large Root / Leftovers
252 Def, 4 Sp.A, 252 SpD
Nature: Calm (+SpD, - Atk)
Ability: Snow Warning

- Magic Coat [HGSS move-tutor]
- Leech Seed
- Giga Drain [HGSS TM] / Light Screen / Protect
- Blizzard

With no HP investment and Large Root, Abomasnow should heal a large portion of its HP.

Magic Coat works against many attacks including Taunt, Stealth Rock, W-o-w, and even Whirlwind. Leech Seed allows Abomasnow to Stall foes for damage while healing back HP, as does Giga Drain. With Giga Drain's boost in power, combined with Leech Seed, Abomasnow can take advantage of Large Root to stay healthy. Blizzard is simply for power, and can aid Abomasnow in hitting Grass, Dragon, and Flying types that resist Giga Drain.

Large Root can be replaced by Leftovers, and Giga Drain can be replaced with Light Screen / Protect to promote sustainability [in order to maintain Hail].
It's still pretty hard to stall with 7 weaknesses.

Swimming Goggles do not exist. That was a hoax.

Also, you can't just toss a tyranitar on your team and think you now have a guaranteed win. It seems that Rain teams are getting confused with mono-water, Hail with mono-ice and sun with only grass and fire. Obviously this would never work, no one would use it and it seems that if you are using a rain team, for example, you could slap Ice Beam on some of your waters, use their second STABs a lot, throw in a Shibiburon with Thunder, Brick Break for 'tar, Coil and something else and a Scizor to abuse weakened fire moves.
 
I don't know if Politoed will be particularly effective in OU, but Basurao with infinite rain is going to be...wow. He has Adaptability, Aqua Jet and a fairly good attack and speed stats already.

Let's run some very crappy damage calcs in rain. (All are done factoring in Adaptability + Rain x 2 x 1.5 (or would it be x 3.5?)
On the physical side we have:

Aqua Jet: 120 (Priority)
Aqua Tail: 270
Waterfall: 240
Surf: 285

But perhaps the scariest move of all (if your at half health)

Brine: 390

Hell, I don't even want to imagine what a CB Aqua Jet in rain will do.
 
Basurao has some unseen potential!

I like hahakurimo. It has the same typing of parasect, but works WAAYYYYY better in sun (Chlorophyll+Swords Dance and two healthy powered STABs? I LOVE!)
 
Has anyone tried the Choice Band Sharpedo with Politoed with drizzle? The thing is rather fast and its 120 base attack stat is quite amazing. Sharpedo also has speed boost for its DW ability, which is fantastic. The only noticeable flaw I see is its horrendous...terrifying low defenses (70/40/40). I seriously doubt Sharpedo wil ever be OU but I have been very successful with Feraligatr (with DW ability) and Kabutops with Drizzle Politoed. I feel like rain teams can be much more of a threat.
 
Basurao has some unseen potential!

I like hahakurimo. It has the same typing of parasect, but works WAAYYYYY better in sun (Chlorophyll+Swords Dance and two healthy powered STABs? I LOVE!)
Yeah, Hahakurimo is a pretty cool sun sweeper and better than most early game bugs, but unfortunately it can't get past steel types whatsoever. It's only option is Hidden Power fire coming from it's weaker 70 base Sp.atk stat.

And yes, Specs Basurao in rain using full power brine will be devastating. It's aqua jet is also very dangerous.
 
Dust Proof (ability)

It is a Cloud Nine clone of sorts. Rankurusu (cute + green) gets it.

Weather Ball (move, Normal type)

More damage in weather. Water in rain. Fire in sunny. Rock in sandstorm. Ice in hail. Normal in other weather.

Too bad about that Shadow weather from Gamecube's XD...
 
Since I'm a rebel, I've actually been planning a sort of anti-weather team. Tyranitar for changing the weather, Altaria for halting weather and walling most Sun abusers, and Nattorei (Grass/Steel) for countering Rain. I think anti-weather will be a lot easier to run simply because it's safer since you don't rely on the weather for your victory. I've been running a lot of different scenarios in my head and I'm confident it'll be at least decent.
Reading this makes me think Anti-Weather Stall could have some interesting applications.
 
Sadly for Ninetales, it gets Hypnosis through an Egg Move, and I doubt that Egg moves will be on Dream World Pokemon. I would say no Energy Ball, but who needs that when you have 1 Turn Solar Beam?
Not really.

Females form Dream World can breed Egg with a PKMn with her Dream World Ability.

Also, Ninetales now can learn Energy Ball by TM, anymore for breeding. So, an Hypnosis Drougth is possible.
 
Politoed to possibly see some usage? Its stats aren't all that bad. With a decent movepool + Drizzle it may find its own niche in standard play. Perhaps even a Poliwrath + Politoed team may be practical. Who knows?

The Hydration is pretty cool too. Now Lapras has something to boast about.
 
Politoed to possibly see some usage? Its stats aren't all that bad. With a decent movepool + Drizzle it may find its own niche in standard play. Perhaps even a Poliwrath + Politoed team may be practical. Who knows?

The Hydration is pretty cool too. Now Lapras has something to boast about.
Poliwhirl + Politoed :D Works whenever Hypnosis doesn't miss. I missed Hypnosis 6 times in a row, so...
 
Vaporeon too gets Hydration. This allows it to spam Rest in the rain and it means you have to be able to OHKO it now. Besides it walls all those Rain Dance sweepers like Blissey walls special attackers.
 
Ninetales and Politoed can be good weather disrupters, they don´t have the stats of T-tar but they have some support moves like Hypnosis, Encore and Perish Song in Politoed or Hipnosis, Will-o-wisp, Roar and SafeGuard in Ninetales, and the both have powerful attacks in Hidropump and Fire Blast respectively for using with their abilities, these moves have a BP of 270 taking account STAB and the weather bonus in power, and now with the new abilities and new pokemon with abilities related to wheater the metagame will be more diverse.

PS. It is a pity that we have not an ability that boost the speed on Hail yet.
 
What do you think?

With the improved Magic Coat and Giga Drain, Abomasnow may find plenty of use as a Seed-staller of sorts. Keep in mind Abomasnow is the only Pokemon who auto-creates Hail, and as such, it should be made to fit a Defensive play-style.


Lead Set:

Stallasnow @ Large Root / Leftovers
252 Def, 4 Sp.A, 252 SpD
Nature: Calm (+SpD, - Atk)
Ability: Snow Warning

- Magic Coat [HGSS move-tutor]
- Leech Seed
- Giga Drain [HGSS TM] / Light Screen / Protect
- Blizzard

With no HP investment and Large Root, Abomasnow should heal a large portion of its HP.

Magic Coat works against many attacks including Taunt, Stealth Rock, W-o-w, and even Whirlwind. Leech Seed allows Abomasnow to Stall foes for damage while healing back HP, as does Giga Drain. With Giga Drain's boost in power, combined with Leech Seed, Abomasnow can take advantage of Large Root to stay healthy. Blizzard is simply for power, and can aid Abomasnow in hitting Grass, Dragon, and Flying types that resist Giga Drain.

Large Root can be replaced by Leftovers, and Giga Drain can be replaced with Light Screen / Protect to promote sustainability [in order to maintain Hail].



Abomasnow ALSO gets an improved "Growth" boosting both Blizzard and Wood Hammer, however due to Wood Hammer's increasing Damage output due to Growth, a Leech Seed would almost be necessary. Perhaps:

Abomasnow: @ Leftovers
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
+ SpD, -Spe

Growth
Blizzard
Ice Shard / Leech Seed
Wood Hammer


Leech Seed and Leftovers will help mitigate damage, while a Defensive spread makes Abomasnow able to last longer and keep the weather going. Growth allows Abamasnow to power up without worry, and makes it a mixed threat. Ice Shard allows it to hit fast dragons, ground, flying, and grass - types while Leech Seed heals off damage.
 
Magic Guard
Rankurusu (Psychic)
Alakazam (Psychic)
Clefable (Normal)
Shinpora (Psychic/Fly)


Cloud Nine
Altaria (Dragon/Fly)
Lickilicky (Normal)

Dustproof

Shubarugo (Bug/Steel)
Forretress (Bug/Steel)
Hahakurimo (Grass/Bug)
Cloyster (Water/Ice)
Barujiina (Dark/Fly)

These Pokemon have potential to add a lot of depth to Sand and Hail teams. While not taking damage from the respective weather condition they could smooth out gaps seen in Hail teams- as well as add something different to Sand Teams. It's rather interest too- looking over some of these Pokemon's movesets.

Cloyster brings Shell Break (Hail +2 SpAttack +2 Spd + 100% Blizzard =Yes) some may point out Skill Link as more desirable but this just another possible way Cloyster. Being in Hail makes it that much better (face it Hail needs all the recruits it can get)

Forretress can function as a wall/spiker/spinner (as usual)

Barujiina has utility/support options with Knock-off & Whirlwind and can wall with bulk & Roost

Shubarugo is a pokemon with impressive defenses but doesn't slouch on offense

Hahakurimo is a grass type, with access to screens and has good enough offensive stats to just might be able to hurt something. Also learns Baton Pass and Agility...but the neatness stops right there.

Alakazam sweeper with all the sort of Psychic deliciousables one could ask for- its ability allows it to switch into status/otherwise.

Altaria halts the weather and can function as a wall/support for her team.

Lickilicky does the same as Altaria but offers its Explosion and wide move pools to its team

Clefable as the always amazing- with Encore/Wish/ whatever trick it pulls out of its bag!

Rankurusu is just as amazing- with access to many many options from Trick Room to Thunder Wave. With bulk/movepool it can perform a wide range of things for its team

Shinpora has many...many ways to boost its stats plus it can roost! It also has access to screens...same with Rankurusu and Alakazam has a nice movepool!
 
What would be a solid counter to Natorrie on a Rain Team, unless Manaphy is set up before it comes out, it completely walls my team.
 
What would be a solid counter to Natorrie on a Rain Team, unless Manaphy is set up before it comes out, it completely walls my team.
Ludicolo learns Focus Blast. Poliwrath doesn't have any good fighting STABs out side of FP, but you could try BB or Dynamic Punch (lolol). Or you could try Kuredio. Kuredio helps with Tyranitar anyway.
 
Ludicolo learns Focus Blast. Poliwrath doesn't have any good fighting STABs out side of FP, but you could try BB or Dynamic Punch (lolol). Or you could try Kuredio. Kuredio helps with Tyranitar anyway.
Not everything on a rain team has to be water type :P

Put on a Breloom to take electric and grass moves and beat Nattorei, also useful for beating Dory against a SS team (if you are playing DW that is)
 
The main topic at is, "Which weather will be better?" Well, first lets look at the weather inducers themselves.

While one can say, "Take out Ninetales/Politoed early," the same can be said for Tyranitar/Hippowdon. I admit, yes, they are far more bulky (especially Hippo), but the same rule of thumb can still be applied. Also smart players don't lead with their weather inducer, they save them for a bit later.

The thing about these weathers is that without the inducers, typing alone is balanced out (for the most part). Sunny Day has Fire and Grass. Rain has Water. Sandstorm has Ground/Rock/Steel. Each weather's Pokemon carry strengths and weaknesses in accordance to one another. While Sunny Day is weaker to stealth rock, theoretically it has better type coverage against both weathers. Rain also has coverage against both weathers (many Water type Pokemon have Ice Beam). Finally, Sandstorm takes advantage of the more naturally defensive natures of their typing + Stealth Rocks + Sandstorm to create residual damage.

Now that's theoretically. Moveset wise and Pokemon wise, each one plays differently. Rain is the hyper offensive weather that seeks to deal damage. Sun seeks to spread status around with speedy Pokemon. Sandstorm helps create walls, as well as cause sweeps with new abilities.

But Pokemonwise is where it gets interesting. The thing is, people are not restricted to certain Pokemon on certain teams. A whole team of weather abusers hardly ever works, and synergy must still be met.

Arguably, Fire and Grass create a bit better synergy than it's opposition, with Ground/Rock/Steel coming next, then finally Water. When countering opposing weathers, keep in mind the type of their weather inducer (that's the key to defeating weather teams).

For example: A Hippowdon/Tyranitar doesn't really look like it will have much chance against something bulky like Tangrowth or something speedy like Jumpluff who can incapacitate them/an incoming Pokemon with sleep powder. Now you essentially have a free turn to switch in your own Ninetales while theirs in incapacitated. If they switch into their set up sweeper like Doryuuzu, Sandstorm is now gone rendering their potential sweep useless.

This is just all Theorymon of course, but still. Don't rule out the other weathers by saying Sandstorm will completely dominate once again. It's never known; the metagame still has not received sufficient testing.
 

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