those who have problems with him taking hits, remember that achieving good speed for doryu in sandstorm requires almost no EV investment at all, meaning you dump EVs in HP. i don't know how much that will help, but if it can make him survive one super effective hit from a priority move and retaliate with a +2 attack, it might be worth it.
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Excadrill
- Thread starter Rising_Dusk
- Start date
scarf azelf outspeeds as long as Mole-face has dropped a couple speed evs for hp, and can flamethrower its ass as well as avoiding EQ. Not a perfect counter but usable in a pinch. Also, can somebody with less homework than me run damage calcs against hippowdon? it's not a matchup you want if you're on the hippo side, but it would be interesting to see how well it takes unboosted earthquakes and SD earthquakes
Heh. I know that, banned as it is, this strategy really has no bearing whatsoever, but I was amused when I crunched then numbers and found that a +2 Claw Sharpen in Gravity is all it takes to bring Doryuuzu's Fissure up to a respectable 70% accuracy. Interesting.
Either way, I can see him having fun on Gravity teams. Gravity's always a good thing for Ground types, and it allows him to fire off perfectly-accurate Drill Liners before his first Claw Sharpen.
Either way, I can see him having fun on Gravity teams. Gravity's always a good thing for Ground types, and it allows him to fire off perfectly-accurate Drill Liners before his first Claw Sharpen.
The thing I like about running max EVs in speed is you outspeed +2 Adamant Blaziken which looks like it could be a fairly big threat.
EDIT: You also outspeed Timid Scarf Starmie.
Heatran has poor weaknesses as well yet at the same time has incredible resistances, so I'm sure this thing can hold its own, especially with monstrous speed and attack (sandstorm obv)
In which case, if Scarf Azelf becomes prevalent as a counter, we'll just see Doryuuzu going full speed to compensate.
Do not have direct evidence, but have also been informed by my friend, who has the game, that he is achieving a better than 2 in 3 critical hit rate with Drill Liner, which might make it a superior choice to Earthquake.
More clarification, please. Like, out of a literal 3 times, or is that a percentage? Do you think you can get him to try this over and over and over?
Great design, great typing, very useable movepool, and those abilities... whoa. Outspeeding Rotoms even without Sand Power (yeah?), and smashing them with Earthquake is a pretty fantastic asset.
I see where the Lucario comparisons come from, and he is a lot more bulky, but unlike Lucario, I don't feel you could just chuck this guy in end-game and watch him go after one SD. He needs guaranteed sandstorm support with Sand Power (sacrificing reliability of EQ hitting Levitators) to hit the necessary speed to clean up, and he doesn't get the priority to make up for it.
Probably more a sandstorm-only SD sweeper once Skarmory has been removed, or a tanky Choice Band hitter spamming Earthquakes and Rock Slides with Mold Breaker, in my opinion. I do like him though...
I see where the Lucario comparisons come from, and he is a lot more bulky, but unlike Lucario, I don't feel you could just chuck this guy in end-game and watch him go after one SD. He needs guaranteed sandstorm support with Sand Power (sacrificing reliability of EQ hitting Levitators) to hit the necessary speed to clean up, and he doesn't get the priority to make up for it.
Probably more a sandstorm-only SD sweeper once Skarmory has been removed, or a tanky Choice Band hitter spamming Earthquakes and Rock Slides with Mold Breaker, in my opinion. I do like him though...
K well I've tested this thing on PO as there is a server that plays BW and I can tell you right now it's broken or close to being broken. With a set of...
Item: Life Orb
Nature: Adamant / Jolly
Ability: Sand Throw
Moves:
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- X-Scissor / Rapid Spin / Substitute
It tear through everything. In the sand nothing without a scarf can outspeed and still most can't and wont. With adamant it sports 405 Attack and with a Swords Dance 810 attack which will hurt the majority of the metagame for an extreme amount of damage. However, that doesn't mean it's not counterable. Being smart I run Gliscor on my team and it stops it cold for the most part. Skarmory will also be a sure fire counter. For a counter for the most part it will need good defenses and will have to resist Earthquake as everything that doesn't resist it which has good defenses take around 85% minimum
Examples of +2 vs...
Rock Slide vs 252/0 Jolly Gliscor 810 Atk vs 286 Def & 354 HP (75 Base Power): 198 - 234 (55.93% - 66.10%)
Earthquake vs 252/252 Impish Deskuan 810 Atk vs 428 Def & 320 HP (100 Base Power): 264 - 312 (82.50% - 97.50%)
I cbf to post anymore but the point is it hits like a truck on steroids at 9000000mph
PS: I posted Gliscor and not Skarmory due to Gliscor actually being able to check it for the most part. Skarmory will be 3hko'd at most however it can't really counter it.
PSS: If you couldn't tell if it gets an earthquake off on anything it will hurt like a bitch :)
Item: Life Orb
Nature: Adamant / Jolly
Ability: Sand Throw
Moves:
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- X-Scissor / Rapid Spin / Substitute
It tear through everything. In the sand nothing without a scarf can outspeed and still most can't and wont. With adamant it sports 405 Attack and with a Swords Dance 810 attack which will hurt the majority of the metagame for an extreme amount of damage. However, that doesn't mean it's not counterable. Being smart I run Gliscor on my team and it stops it cold for the most part. Skarmory will also be a sure fire counter. For a counter for the most part it will need good defenses and will have to resist Earthquake as everything that doesn't resist it which has good defenses take around 85% minimum
Examples of +2 vs...
Rock Slide vs 252/0 Jolly Gliscor 810 Atk vs 286 Def & 354 HP (75 Base Power): 198 - 234 (55.93% - 66.10%)
Earthquake vs 252/252 Impish Deskuan 810 Atk vs 428 Def & 320 HP (100 Base Power): 264 - 312 (82.50% - 97.50%)
I cbf to post anymore but the point is it hits like a truck on steroids at 9000000mph
PS: I posted Gliscor and not Skarmory due to Gliscor actually being able to check it for the most part. Skarmory will be 3hko'd at most however it can't really counter it.
PSS: If you couldn't tell if it gets an earthquake off on anything it will hurt like a bitch :)
810 Atk vs 368 Def & 420 HP (100 Base Power): 306 - 361 (72.86% - 85.95%)
That's a Life Orb boosted +2 Earthquake on 252 HP/252 Def Impish Hippowdon, and it won't OHKO even with Stealth Rock. So Hippo can switch in as the mole SD's, and threaten with its own Earthquake.
Of course, the mole could run Sand Power instead of Sand Throw, and the boost provided by that ability might be enough to OHKO Hippowdon. But you would be outrun by a lot of threats, so it wouldn't be recommended.
Hippowdon could also be very good. At best a +2 Eq from Doryuuzu would do around 85% to hippo then it can EQ back for damage, so the question is whether doryuuzu wants to stay in or be scared off by a very heavy wall. Not to mention the abundance of priority such as Aqua jet Azu and mach punch roopushin to scare off this powermole.
Without sand throw, it's much more likely to be outsped by anything faster than a luc.
Without sand throw, it's much more likely to be outsped by anything faster than a luc.
I don't like this thing, and I have a few good reasons for it. None of this new lucario stuff holds any water. I'd have to say one of the saving graces of this pokemon is sand throw because apart from that it has trouble sweeping. Let me enumerate this thing's flaws.
Bad typing: He is weak to fighting, water, fire, ground
he only resists/immune to ghost, dark, and rock 4x, flying, and dragon, bug, steel. Stab physical and special moves can go neutral on him and flay him.
Bad defenses. Hp is tied with mamoswine, but much lower dfenses. Can't hold up in the metagame, thus cannot find a good switch.
Bad movepoool: lack of coverage really hurts, though stabs are often good enough. Bronzong, skarmory, forrestress hurt it bad.
Needs Sandstorm support: with the new weather inducers, this will be more difficult than in gen 4. Withut the sand throw boost, this thing asks to be revenged.
OF course, I'm not saying ti sux, just pointing out glaring weaknesses.
I think this pokemon has most potential is breaking stall with rapid spin, a dark move, and and edge quake, helping out tyranitar. But without priority base 88 speed and bad typing are serious weaknesses.
Bad typing: He is weak to fighting, water, fire, ground
he only resists/immune to ghost, dark, and rock 4x, flying, and dragon, bug, steel. Stab physical and special moves can go neutral on him and flay him.
Bad defenses. Hp is tied with mamoswine, but much lower dfenses. Can't hold up in the metagame, thus cannot find a good switch.
Bad movepoool: lack of coverage really hurts, though stabs are often good enough. Bronzong, skarmory, forrestress hurt it bad.
Needs Sandstorm support: with the new weather inducers, this will be more difficult than in gen 4. Withut the sand throw boost, this thing asks to be revenged.
OF course, I'm not saying ti sux, just pointing out glaring weaknesses.
I think this pokemon has most potential is breaking stall with rapid spin, a dark move, and and edge quake, helping out tyranitar. But without priority base 88 speed and bad typing are serious weaknesses.
I don't know if this has been posted yet, but i like the idea of a more defensive minded doryuuzu to rapid spin more effectively.
Item: Leftovers
Nature: Adamant
EVs: Haven't thought about it very much, however a lot of speed evs isn't necessary even without sandstorm to outspeed defensive ghosts. So, 252 atk/some speed/a lot of hp.
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Rapid Spin
No defensive ghost will dare switch into you at the risk of a +2 earthquake, so i think you are pretty safe to spin most of the time. Ironically gengar will cause you the most trouble, but you can run shadow claw > rock slide instead since the point is to spin at all costs for teams that need it.
edit: or use a sandstorm team, outspeed gengar and OHKO it (i think) with +2 rock slide...
Item: Leftovers
Nature: Adamant
EVs: Haven't thought about it very much, however a lot of speed evs isn't necessary even without sandstorm to outspeed defensive ghosts. So, 252 atk/some speed/a lot of hp.
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Rapid Spin
No defensive ghost will dare switch into you at the risk of a +2 earthquake, so i think you are pretty safe to spin most of the time. Ironically gengar will cause you the most trouble, but you can run shadow claw > rock slide instead since the point is to spin at all costs for teams that need it.
edit: or use a sandstorm team, outspeed gengar and OHKO it (i think) with +2 rock slide...
I think that a defensive combination of Rohpushin and Gliscor can take on Doryuuzu effectively. Gliscor can Taunt it, stopping its SDing madness, and with Sand Veil and Roost and STAB EQ abuse it is a great check to it, barring Rock Slide crits and flinches. Rohpushin takes an unboosted EQ like a baws, and can OHKO with Hammer Arm. Or it can do insane amounts of damage with STAB Mach Punch. And the funny thing is, you can let Doryuuzu SD, as you switch in Erfuun. Encore that fucking Mole and SubSeed the incoming thing to death. Erfuun+Mischievous Heart+Taunt, Encore, and SubSeed=Doryuuzu cannot set up.
Yea, hes definitely not the next Lucario. Luke has way better coverage than this thing.
as well as priority. If this thing had priority then it would be broken. Till then I think his best role is as a very offensive spinner.
Fissure and other OHKO moves actually have their own accuracy formula that ignores things like Gravity and Claw Sharpen.
http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/fissure
So if people have a Gliscor counter, it's safe to say using Substitute can get rid if that problem. Nice.
Especially because I hate Breloom, Sub is a good idea, at least do some damage to it if not 2hko.
I've been testing out Doryuuzu on PO for a little while, so I feel obligated to say this.
Doryuuzu is easily the most dangerous Pokémon out of the new bunch and is definitely one of the best Pokémon in the "OU tier". A lot of the time he doesn't even need to set up to KO things; base 135 attack and LO goes a long way. He also doesn't need much coverage; Earthquake, Rock Slide and Return/X-Scissor/Shadow Claw beat everything that he needs to.
Doryuuzu is easily the most dangerous Pokémon out of the new bunch and is definitely one of the best Pokémon in the "OU tier". A lot of the time he doesn't even need to set up to KO things; base 135 attack and LO goes a long way. He also doesn't need much coverage; Earthquake, Rock Slide and Return/X-Scissor/Shadow Claw beat everything that he needs to.
Ash Borer
I've heard they're short of room in hell
niche pokemon, ho.
Im excited, seems counterable, and greatly usable at the same time, a great combo.
x-scissor is probably your best bet here. Breloom's mach punch is dangerous, and using it one the switch in could be handy. Also any grass type in general.
Also, a sand power boosted earthquake banded, and bulky is "obscene" as well.
Think about it, opponent switches in to something expecting swords dance and you hit it with a base 135 attack, banded, max attack, adamant, 225 power earthquake.
scary, and makes this guy less predictable.
just a though, I suppose.
Im excited, seems counterable, and greatly usable at the same time, a great combo.
x-scissor is probably your best bet here. Breloom's mach punch is dangerous, and using it one the switch in could be handy. Also any grass type in general.
Also, a sand power boosted earthquake banded, and bulky is "obscene" as well.
Think about it, opponent switches in to something expecting swords dance and you hit it with a base 135 attack, banded, max attack, adamant, 225 power earthquake.
scary, and makes this guy less predictable.
just a though, I suppose.
I might be a little paranoid, but with SD, how well does he do towards Breloom without X Scissor (I explained a lot about this factor earlier in the pages)?
Exactly. It's why I said x scissor almost seems like priority for Celibi and Breloom/Starmie.
Screw that. Sub is out, X Scissor is so in. Gains way more advantages.
Doryuzuu is broken.