Hydreigon

[Misa]

Sazando learns Draco Meteor through move tutor.

Also, to those who say Sazando is outclassed by Lati@s and Salamence, there is a big advantage in Sazando that both Lati@s and Salamence would wish for.

1. Sazando is not weak to Stealth Rock. Salamence takes over 25% when switching in due to Stealth Rock, which could potentially inhibit Mence's ability to sweep. Sazando doesn't have this problem, and he even has a higher Special Attack to boot.

2. Sazando does not have a Pursuit weaknesses. Unlike the Lati twins (who get raped more often than not by Tyranitar), Sazando actually resists Pursuit, which means that Sazando does not have to worry about Tyranitar (or any general Pursuiter) trying to end your existence prematurely. Mind if I mention that Sazando also resists Sucker Punch?

3. Access to U-turn as well as higher Base SpA means that Sazando could scout, AND do more damage than both Latias and Flygon. Flygon may have a TW immunity, but Sazando's ability to cause more damage makes up for it more often than not.

In short, I don't think that Sazando should be viewed as an inferior Lati@s or Mence, because it has his own special qualities that make him stand out compared to other dragons.

Also Afti's set look pretty darn nifty. Would make a heck of a wall with the right amount of support.

 

[dudeup1]

Wall-Breaker

Sazandora @ Life Orb
Modest
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Taunt
- U-turn

The combination of Draco Meteor, Taunt and U-turn prevent Blissey from walling this. Standard Bold Blissey loses up to 40% of her health if she comes in on Draco Meteor. Taunt her to prevent her from recovering health and then get a light hit in with U-turn (17% on avg) as you go to a counter. Factoring in the few rounds of Leftovers recovery and Stealth Rock, Blissey will be on 52% health assuming average damage rolls on both Draco Meteor and U-turn. If Sandstorm is in effect, she'll be on 34%! Either way, next time she comes in on the Hydra, she's dead.

With the pink blob out of the way...

Fire Blast vs 252/92+ Bronzong = 79 - 93%
Draco Meteor vs 252/0 Dusknoir = 83% - 98% (66% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Fire Blast vs 252/252+ Forretress = 201% - 237% (guaranteed OHKO even with Light Screen in effect for what it's worth)
Draco Meteor vs 252/252 Gliscor = 84% - 100% (79% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Draco Meteor vs 252/0 Gyarados = 80% - 94% (guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Draco Meteor vs 4/0 Heatran = 46% - 54% (can only come in once)
Draco Meteor vs 252/88 Hippowdon = 88% - 103% (58% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Fire Blast vs 252/0 Jirachi or Celebi = 89% - 105% (guaranteed OHKO on Celebi after Stealth Rock / 74% chance to OHKO Jirachi after Stealth Rock)
Draco Meteor vs 252/0 Machamp = 94% - 111% (guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Fire Blast vs 252/0 Metagross = 108% - 128%
Draco Meteor vs 252/16+ Milotic = 59% - 70%
Draco Meteor vs 252/68 Rotom-A = 92% - 108% (guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Fire Blast vs 252/252+ Skarmory = 98% - 115% (guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Draco Meteor vs 252/0 Suicune = 69% - 82%
Draco Meteor vs 252/0 Swampert = 86% - 101% (46% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Draco Meteor vs 252/0 Vaporeon = 71% - 84%
Draco Meteor vs 252/0 Zapdos = 90% - 106% (41% chance to OHKO without Stealth Rock)
Fire Blast vs 252/0 Birijion (Grass/Fighting @ 91/129) = 75% - 88%
Fire Blast vs 252/252+ Nattorei (Grass/Steel @ 74/116) = 135% - 159%
Draco Meteor vs 252/252+ Burungeru (Water/Ghost @ 100/105) = 54% - 64%

Your opponent is going to have a horrible ol' time trying to counter this. Stealth Rock and Modest nature are a must as the calculations demonstrate. Wish support would be ideal but not strictly neccessary. It's handy to know that even if something like Blissey, Milotic or the Water/Ghost predict your Taunt and try to attack they'll struggle to harm the Hydra's very respectable 92/90/90 defenses (Blissey averages 39% with Ice Beam and Milotic averages 49%). Pursuit resistance is very useful here, allowing you to come and go as you please unlike Lati@s.

Thoughts? Possible changes? Any input welcome here.

@fat lee best nature is timid and replace fire blast with D.pulse and you have one of the best dragon types in the game

 

[Misa]

@fat lee best nature is timid and replace fire blast with D.pulse and you have one of the best dragon types in the game

Even with a timid nature, does it outspeed anything specific? It does let you outspeed base 90s, but the set that lee posted is more of a wallbreaker than anything else.

 

[Anthony Von Hertzon]

Happy Hydra
Ability - Levitate
Item - Life Orb
Nature - Modest
EVs - 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Speed
Moves - Cheer Up / Outrage / Dark Pulse / Flamethrower/Surf

This set, of the three listed, has the best sweeping potential. Cheer Up is an amazing set-up move, boosting both Attack and Special Attack one stage. From there, you can proceed to boost some more and prepare for a sweep. I was thinking about this set, and when I saw so many people post about on my thread, I just simply had to put it here.
​

This set reminds me of the havoc mence wreaked with DD. I view Sazandora as the salamence of Gen V just more specially orientated, has better defensive typing, and isn't weak to SR.

 

[gengod]

Why would you use Modest on a set like that? Also Cheer Up Sazando is pretty underwhelming except versus Stall teams. It's honestly way too slow to set up versus any offensive teams (aka the majority of teams).

 

[dudeup1]

Even with a timid nature, does it outspeed anything specific? It does let you outspeed base 90s, but the set that lee posted is more of a wallbreaker than anything else.

ill crunch some numbers to see if it does
edit: sazandora has a base spd of 98 so i should beat a base 90 no prob w/timid it should be 102-105(about) so you can beat a garchomp np but genosecko is the bane of sazandora w/o a u-turn

 

[Chan]

Does anyone see Genosekuto being a decent check to this? I haven't run any calcs but as long as it avoids Flamethrower/Fire Blast I'd say it should do fine with a resistance to both STABS. Outspeeding it by one Base Point and having access to a STAB super effective should help Genosekuto to scare this poke. If Bug Buzz doesn't OHKO it then it does have access to U-Turn to switch to something to absorb/4x resist the incoming fire attack. Thoughts?

 

[Misa]

Does anyone see Genosekuto being a decent check to this? I haven't ran any calcs but as long as it avoids Flamethrower/Fire Blast I'd say it should do fine with a resistance to both STABS. Outspeeding it by one Base Point and having access to a STAB super effective should help Genosekuto to scare this poke. If Bug Buzz doesn't OHKO it then it does have access to U-Turn to switch to something to absorb/4x resist the incoming fire attack. Thoughts?

Genosect seems to be a good check due to his resistances to both STAB moves. I dunno how he'll take a Specs DC to the face but usually Download will boost Genosect's Attack instead of his SpA (when he switches into Sazando), which means that U-turn will hurt like hell if Sazando switches in.

Good match-up for Genosect either way.

 

[VaxtinTheWolf]

Does anyone see Genosekuto being a decent check to this? I haven't ran any calcs but as long as it avoids Flamethrower/Fire Blast I'd say it should do fine with a resistance to both STABS. Outspeeding it by one Base Point and having access to a STAB super effective should help Genosekuto to scare this poke. If Bug Buzz doesn't OHKO it then it does have access to U-Turn to switch to something to absorb/4x resist the incoming fire attack. Thoughts?

Funny, I was JUST looking at the 5th gen to outspeed and saw that thing.. I'm like.. Oh C'mon! It's bulky, only one weakness, AND had good offense. I don't know what to do about that if someone has it besides prediction.

Edit:
And also, I can see them mostly running +Speed nature. And probably even mixed to cover the if download raises it's atk or Sp.Atk either way.

 

[Lee]

Genosekuto can certainly revenge kill but he struggles to switch in on any Hydra set. All theorymon atm, but I suppose the three most popular moves across all Sazandora sets will be Draco Meteor, Fire Blast and U-turn and Genosekuto doesn't particularly like any of them (even a Scarf Draco Meteor does 50+%, Fire Blast obviously OHKOs and he'll be promptly forced out if he comes in on a U-turn). Thanks for bringing it to my attention though as it's certainly justification for Hydra to put the remaning 4 EVs into SpD in order to thwart the Download boost.

@fat lee best nature is timid and replace fire blast with D.pulse and you have one of the best dragon types in the game

Good idea, I'll try it out I'm not trying it out.

 

[dudeup1]

just in case any one was wonering i meant dark pulse also wtf is a STAB (i dont know much poke lingo)

 

[ghost]

I'm thinking that a Band Sazandora set could work with a bit of surprise factor and a strong STAB Pursuit.

Sazando@Choice Band
HP 6/ Atk 252 / Spe 252
Jolly/Adamant/Naive
-Outrage
-Pursuit
-Crunch/Fire Blast
-U-Turn

 

[SJCrew]

Even with a timid nature, does it outspeed anything specific?

Ononokusu, a Pokemon I'm sure you're familiar with that you'd never want to be slower than (without priority).

 

[SithLord]

I'm thinking that a Band Sazandora set could work with a bit of surprise factor and a strong STAB Pursuit.

Sazando@Choice Band
HP 6/ Atk 252 / Spe 252
Jolly/Adamant/Naive
-Outrage
-Pursuit
-Crunch/Fire Blast
-U-Turn

Except that it doesn't get Pursuit

 

[ghost]

Oh? I could've sworn that I saw it on the list.

 

[Lucindril]

Like I said on the previous page, the only notable base 90s are Roserade and Lucario, and I don't see any base 95s like Gliscor stopping Sazzy anytime soon. The only reason Gliscor goes Jolly is to outspeed Lucario, because otherwise it would miss out on a great revenge kill. Sazzy is able to kill most of these threats without being hit too hard (unless the odd Yanmega shows up).

 

[VaxtinTheWolf]

An update to the set I want for my mono team. I HATE using Life Orb and Choice items, as I don't like the risk, but in this case for improvement I need for my mono team This is my update.

@ Draco Plate / Choice Scarf / Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Nature: Naive
- Dragon Pulse / Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake / U-Turn
- U-Turn / Dragon Pulse

Naive nature and 252 Spe Ev's out-speeds Ononokusu, which I fear to hell and back, while Dragon Pulse/Fire Blast/Earthquake gives great coverage. U-turn is for scouting. Draco Plate if you dont like recoil/being stuck on one move. Leftovers if you want steady HP gain and don't care if your moves have boosted power.

With Choice Scarf you're sadly locked into a move, but using Draco Meteor isn't a worry, since you'll be going Hit-&-Run anyway. Fire Blast is obviously for steels. You can drop Earthquake for U-turn and Dragon Pulse so you can still Scout, and use Dragon Pulse for Late-Game sweeping, when Steel Types are gone.

If you don't want to scout, or it just isn't your thing, you can run Draco Meteor/Fire Blast/Earthquake/Dragon Pulse with a Scarf; Gives great coverage, and you have an alternate Dragon move for Late-Game cleanup instead of using Draco Meteor.

Edit:
Also, with a scarf you don't have to fear pokemon that trick Band/Specs/Scarf onto other pokes because with Draco Meteor/Fire Blast/Earthquake/U-Turn you can gladly use all 3. Somewhat.

 

[ajajayjay]

God damn, and everyone thought latias had a powerful Draco meteor. This thing with specs will Ohko everything in sight, and has fire blast instead of hp fire for steels. The only thing is that truly unfortunate speed stat combined with fighting weakness, making it highly susceptible to mach punch, vacuum wave, and all the speedy fighters in top tier. (namely the deer trio who all have 125+ speed and access to stab close combat). Let's just pray he somehow gets pursuit, which would turn him into a BEAST scarfer

 

[Max_LKC]

@fat lee best nature is timid and replace fire blast with D.pulse and you have one of the best dragon types in the game

dragon pulse? and you get resisted by all the steel types? not a good idea

 

[Quillz]

God damn, and everyone thought latias had a powerful Draco meteor. This thing with specs will Ohko everything in sight, and has fire blast instead of hp fire for steels. The only thing is that truly unfortunate speed stat combined with fighting weakness, making it highly susceptible to mach punch, vacuum wave, and all the speedy fighters in top tier. (namely the deer trio who all have 125+ speed and access to stab close combat). Let's just pray he somehow gets pursuit, which would turn him into a BEAST scarfer

I'm positive Sazandora gets Persuit from either leveling up or as an egg move. I know I've seen some move sets that have Persuit.

 

[VaxtinTheWolf]

I'm positive Sazandora gets Persuit from either leveling up or as an egg move. I know I've seen some move sets that have Persuit.

I checked Serebii & Marriland; Didn't see it.

 

[Colonel M]

Looks like Sazandora's best sets so far involve Choice Specs, all out Life Orb attacker (U-turn / Draco Meteor / Flamethrower / Dragon Pulse or Surf) or Lee's set. Cheer Up seems like a waste of time when it barely helps versus stall to begin with (IMO Taunt accomplishes this better... but not reliably having stuff to do to Blissey sucks too) and Scarf looks outclassed by Lati@s and Garchomp, or even Salamence / Flygon (then again Flygon only slightly outclasses it with Speed). Definitely has a some cool niches such as the lack of SR weakness and Pursuit resistance though. It even has a fair amount of bulk to compliment itself. 92 | 90 | 90 doesn't scream tank but definitely able to comfortably take a hit. Sucks that the new Fighting-type mons have a high Speed stat though...

Definitely an interesting Pokemon to try out though.

 

[Reikai]

Going to be honest here. After using Sazandora in a few B/W random matches, I find it very underwhelming. Just feel it just doesn't cut it. Reason? 98 speed is the biggest culprit. Having to turn tail and run from every Latios, Garchomp and Salamence really REALLY sucks. Additionally, it is completely outclassed as a Draco Meteor'er by Latios. Yes, Latios w/o Soul Dew is allowed in random matches.

 

[Afti]

So, minor note on TormentAndo:

With some SpD investment, you can come in on Kyogre's STAB and wall it all day. Torment keeps Ice Beam from hitting anything but a Sub, while Surf/Water Spout/Thunder are all resisted. And the Choice sets, which are most common, will die in four turns of Struggling if they don't switch out.

 

[UltraStorm]

Going to be honest here. After using Sazandora in a few B/W random matches, I find it very underwhelming. Just feel it just doesn't cut it. Reason? 98 speed is the biggest culprit. Having to turn tail and run from every Latios, Garchomp and Salamence really REALLY sucks. Additionally, it is completely outclassed as a Draco Meteor'er by Latios. Yes, Latios w/o Soul Dew is allowed in random matches.

Sazandora isn't at its best in a 3 vs 3 format, in which the random wifi matches are fought. Random wifi favors playing offensively and having high speed, so it's really no surprise if Latios is generally the better choice there.