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Venusaur
- Thread starter Raseri
- Start date
You could run all three in a set that included Sludge Bomb, HP Fire, [insert Grass move here] and Growth. This would of course mean that you'd have to forego EQ/Sleep Powder/Synthesis though. It really depends on what you need him to cover for your team.
Venusaur, oh Arceus, the original one between the Grass-type.
Now with Chlorophyll, he can increase it competivity against Roserade.
The problem, offenssivly speaking, is that Roserade can abuse from both Leaf Storm, Petal Dance, but the difference is the TechniHP Fire.
Anyway, Venusaur can be deadly in the sun w/ Chrolophyll, but it can still running with the classic Overgrowth, I really like those two options:
Special Sweeper.
Nature: Modest.
Item: Black Sludge or Life Orb.
EVs: 252 Sp.A. / 252 Speed / 4 HP.
- Petal Dance / SolarBeam.
- Hidden Power Fire, Rock or Ice / Earthquake.
- Growth.
- Sleep Powder / Leech Seed / Synthesis.
Simply, this set abuses the sunny weather, thing that mades from Droughtales a great partner.
SolarBeam is powerful, but Drizzletoad can be a huge problem, Petal Dance, however, don't suffers from the climatic changes and attack two or three turns, but causes confusion.
Hidden Power Fire is really powerful, but HP Ice take down many Dragons, and Rock can deal with some Flying types, like Moltres.
Sleep Powder is good to cause switches, but Synthesis recover 2/3 of the HP in the sunny weather, and Leech Seed is good when you predicted an uncoming weather change.
For the filler move, you can run with Sludge Bomb with STAB and decent Neutral coverage, or with a weak Earthquake to deal with certain Fire-types (Heatran, not so hard, but you know).
Also, Growth have is a profit to Venusaur with a Sunny day.
It increases two stage both Attacks, so Earthquake can deal an amazing damage meanwhile it have a great coverage.
And...:
MixSaur.
Item: Black Sludge
Nature: dunno, I think that a Neutral Nature is OK.
Ability: Overgrowth.
EVs: Max Def and SpD.
- Growth.
- Petal Dance / Power Whip.
- Earthquake.
- Hidden Power Ice, Rock or Fire.
Well, similary, this set act like a sweepers set, but it look more like a wall breaker.
Growth acts like Cheer Up outside of a sunny weather.
This lets to Venusaur gain the power that it don't carries for the lack of EVs investiment.
Power Whip or Petal Dance, both depends in the preference of the user.
The first kills Burugel and Blissey, but the other make easier take Rhyperiors and other things.
Earthquake damage every terrestrial Steel-types, also hit hard Fire-types and many other things.
Hidden Power in this set hace three options:
Fire: Take Skarmory, Nattorei, other Grass- and Bug/Steel-types.
Ice: Kills many Dragon-types, aswell Grass types, like Tangrowth, Leafeon and Torterra.
Rock: Kills Moltres, and deal an important damage to Flying Dragons and other Flying-types.
Garchomp and Flygon can take this, but are susceptible to netural and STABed Grass moves.
Well, andthis is how this thread ends.
Long life to Venusaur (?).
See you.
Now with Chlorophyll, he can increase it competivity against Roserade.
The problem, offenssivly speaking, is that Roserade can abuse from both Leaf Storm, Petal Dance, but the difference is the TechniHP Fire.
Anyway, Venusaur can be deadly in the sun w/ Chrolophyll, but it can still running with the classic Overgrowth, I really like those two options:
Special Sweeper.
Nature: Modest.
Item: Black Sludge or Life Orb.
EVs: 252 Sp.A. / 252 Speed / 4 HP.
- Petal Dance / SolarBeam.
- Hidden Power Fire, Rock or Ice / Earthquake.
- Growth.
- Sleep Powder / Leech Seed / Synthesis.
Simply, this set abuses the sunny weather, thing that mades from Droughtales a great partner.
SolarBeam is powerful, but Drizzletoad can be a huge problem, Petal Dance, however, don't suffers from the climatic changes and attack two or three turns, but causes confusion.
Hidden Power Fire is really powerful, but HP Ice take down many Dragons, and Rock can deal with some Flying types, like Moltres.
Sleep Powder is good to cause switches, but Synthesis recover 2/3 of the HP in the sunny weather, and Leech Seed is good when you predicted an uncoming weather change.
For the filler move, you can run with Sludge Bomb with STAB and decent Neutral coverage, or with a weak Earthquake to deal with certain Fire-types (Heatran, not so hard, but you know).
Also, Growth have is a profit to Venusaur with a Sunny day.
It increases two stage both Attacks, so Earthquake can deal an amazing damage meanwhile it have a great coverage.
And...:
MixSaur.
Item: Black Sludge
Nature: dunno, I think that a Neutral Nature is OK.
Ability: Overgrowth.
EVs: Max Def and SpD.
- Growth.
- Petal Dance / Power Whip.
- Earthquake.
- Hidden Power Ice, Rock or Fire.
Well, similary, this set act like a sweepers set, but it look more like a wall breaker.
Growth acts like Cheer Up outside of a sunny weather.
This lets to Venusaur gain the power that it don't carries for the lack of EVs investiment.
Power Whip or Petal Dance, both depends in the preference of the user.
The first kills Burugel and Blissey, but the other make easier take Rhyperiors and other things.
Earthquake damage every terrestrial Steel-types, also hit hard Fire-types and many other things.
Hidden Power in this set hace three options:
Fire: Take Skarmory, Nattorei, other Grass- and Bug/Steel-types.
Ice: Kills many Dragon-types, aswell Grass types, like Tangrowth, Leafeon and Torterra.
Rock: Kills Moltres, and deal an important damage to Flying Dragons and other Flying-types.
Garchomp and Flygon can take this, but are susceptible to netural and STABed Grass moves.
Well, andthis is how this thread ends.
Long life to Venusaur (?).
See you.
This last sentence really sums it up. Grass STAB is important and good to have, but Grass Pokemon are almost always starved for coverage. LO Sceptile is the only possible exception I can think of off the top of my head, but everyone else is always going to struggle to hit someone or other, that's the nature of the typing.
I used to run a Giga Drain / HP Ice / Growth / Sleep Powder set. Not many Steel-types tried to switch in fearing HP Fire, and when they realized I didn't have it, I was at +4 already or they were sleeping or whatever and Venusaur could just 7-0 the team.
Wow, he was so powerful that he was able KO the non-existent 7th member of the opponent's team? That's pretty impressive :naughty:
Fire-types.
I run Giga Drain/EQ/HP Fire/Growth, and Lati@s and Salanite are really fucking me over. Gonna try HP Ice.
That's when he goes nuts and attacks the trainer. Or he fires a Leaf Storm into the announcing booth if this is on PBR or something.
Venusaur can sweep surprsingly well, but he struggles to get decent neutral coverage without getting horrible walled by either the levitating dragons, fire types (especially Heatran) or certain steel Pokémon (Nattorei) and it often lacks the power to get past mixed walls.
Anyway, I tried Growth / Sludge Bomb / EQ / HP Fire and it was the best coverage I could get for Venusaur. Although the lack of powerful Grass STAB hurts I had the best time using this type of coverage. You beat next to all common Pokémon that think they can wall Venusaur and so you eliminate the counters of your next Chlorophyll sweeper. Obviously you have a harder time to kill the ground and water types you can otherwise deal with but they usually won't switch in as they fear the powerful grass STAB. Balloon Heatran is a downer though.
Another set I tried was Leech Seed / Sub / Sludge Bomb / HP Fire with TS and sun support (sometimes I switch SB or HPF with Sleep Powder). It was the best SubSeeder I tried this generation but well, too much support was needed to make it work and it's not easy to keep sun up all the time, especially when considering how much better rain and sand is compared to sun.
Anyway, I tried Growth / Sludge Bomb / EQ / HP Fire and it was the best coverage I could get for Venusaur. Although the lack of powerful Grass STAB hurts I had the best time using this type of coverage. You beat next to all common Pokémon that think they can wall Venusaur and so you eliminate the counters of your next Chlorophyll sweeper. Obviously you have a harder time to kill the ground and water types you can otherwise deal with but they usually won't switch in as they fear the powerful grass STAB. Balloon Heatran is a downer though.
Another set I tried was Leech Seed / Sub / Sludge Bomb / HP Fire with TS and sun support (sometimes I switch SB or HPF with Sleep Powder). It was the best SubSeeder I tried this generation but well, too much support was needed to make it work and it's not easy to keep sun up all the time, especially when considering how much better rain and sand is compared to sun.
Sludge Bomb is way better than Hp Ice on Venasaur because unless Dragonite has Multi-Scale up, Sludge Bomb does more damage to it and every other dragon. With +2, Latias/Latios can just eat Sludge Bomb and die (well, more defensive Latias could likely survive being ohkoed but offensive one's don't and she wouldn't be able to kill Venasaur anyway defensively) and every dragon dies to Sludge Bomb thanks to the Growth boost. If Venasaur's using Hidden Power, go with Fire to roast Scizors and Nattorei's.
Venasaur really does not like Balloon Heatran unless you still have Sleep Powder although Sleep Powder is limiting his coverage. I don't know if Venasaur really needs Earthquake because everything that Earthquake hits would be either hit just as hard with the Sun stabbed Hp Fire (steels) or murdered by a stabbed super-effective Grass attack (rocks). And if Heatran is coming in, it is likely to be flying on a Balloon and if it comes to revenge kill or on Growth, it pretty much forces Venasaur out regardless since Earthquake wouldn't even do anything to it. So I don't really see the need of Earthquake in most cases when you can do Growth/Giga Drain/Sludge Bomb/Hidden Power Fire which I think actually hits everything but Heatran. This does allow you to be walled by Blissey or something (who is far less common) although if you're worried about that, you can choose to put Power Whip over Giga Drain or something if you really need a physical move. But I don't really see the need of Earthquake on Venasaur when that darn balloon exists and allows things like Heatran to float over for free and Heatran will pretty always be a bane to Venasaur because of it (unless Venasaur sleeps it which could go over the grass move because a Stab Sludge Bomb is needed for Dragons).
Venasaur really does not like Balloon Heatran unless you still have Sleep Powder although Sleep Powder is limiting his coverage. I don't know if Venasaur really needs Earthquake because everything that Earthquake hits would be either hit just as hard with the Sun stabbed Hp Fire (steels) or murdered by a stabbed super-effective Grass attack (rocks). And if Heatran is coming in, it is likely to be flying on a Balloon and if it comes to revenge kill or on Growth, it pretty much forces Venasaur out regardless since Earthquake wouldn't even do anything to it. So I don't really see the need of Earthquake in most cases when you can do Growth/Giga Drain/Sludge Bomb/Hidden Power Fire which I think actually hits everything but Heatran. This does allow you to be walled by Blissey or something (who is far less common) although if you're worried about that, you can choose to put Power Whip over Giga Drain or something if you really need a physical move. But I don't really see the need of Earthquake on Venasaur when that darn balloon exists and allows things like Heatran to float over for free and Heatran will pretty always be a bane to Venasaur because of it (unless Venasaur sleeps it which could go over the grass move because a Stab Sludge Bomb is needed for Dragons).
Yeah as fluffy otters says, Try Sludge Bomb to help alleviate Dragon problems. Between it and Giga Drain you can hit them all neutrally with STAB, and at +2 it hurts a hell of a lot, OHKOing most. Personally I prefer Giga Drain/Sludge Bomb/HP Fire as my 3 attacks set, as using Sleep Powder with Growth means you lose a ton of coverage. EQ ofc is an option over sludge bomb but the number of Dragons walling you is ridiculous (not to mention Heatran now loves to use balloons). The only things walling you are Heatran and Shanderaa, who are easy to deal with with the rest of the team if not in DW.
But sleep powder can cripple a pokemon it can't beat with it's moves.
Growth is not as useful, but using it with a mixed set makes is pretty viable.
I must say as I had steel support in the form of magnezone, there was nothing that impeded my sweeps with venusaur in the sun.
Poison never really hindered me as an attack bonus after zone support. Sure You have dark types, but in the sun it never mattered. Outside of the obscure houndoom I didn't see anything that stopped me cold. I ran LO + 3 attacks and it has served me quite well.
Poison never really hindered me as an attack bonus after zone support. Sure You have dark types, but in the sun it never mattered. Outside of the obscure houndoom I didn't see anything that stopped me cold. I ran LO + 3 attacks and it has served me quite well.
True, but the 75% accuracy really hampers Venu's reliability, especially as you can cover almost everything with 3 moves and Growth. Imo switching out of Heatran and Shandy (not in DW) while keeping the ability to sweep is favourable to being able to potentially cripple anything but only at 75% success, but it's up to you in that respect.
I would disagree with you on Growth's usefulness however. It really is this move that makes Sun sweepers so deadly. A NP and SD in one is insane, especially when your speed is also doubled. The fact that you can force Burungeru etc out so easily makes the boost incredibly easy to grab, and I believe due to Giga Drain's healing that a Growthing Venusaur can even take out Blissey/Chansey. It is the Kingdra or Doryuuzu of Sun with this move.
Magnezone is something I haven't tried but would probably be worthwhile. The issue is that with your Fire Types you already pose quite a threat to steels, so whether Mag is necessary or not is dubious.
Also, Dark doesn't resist Poison lol, so you could've nailed Houndoom with Sludge Bomb. Poison has awful SE coverage but good neutral - only being resisted by Steel (immune), Poison, Ground, Rock and Ghost. Grass attacks deal with Ground and Rock, and HP Fire beats Steel and can take on the rest decently.
So these are some impressions I've gotten from Gen V Venusaur:
1. It seems like it suffers from four-slot syndrome. If it could wield [insert Grass move of choice]/Sludge Bomb/HP Fire/Growth/Sleep Powder/[insert healing move of choice], it would be much more powerful.
2. Is it just me, or is Venu unequivocably the best Sun sweeper around?
3. Maybe Sleep Powder is better off with the defensive sets (Tank, subseeding) and Growth should be given to the offensive sets?
4. If anything, Venusaur's become even more versatile than before. He has way too many options and combinations now:
-Sleep Powder
-Growth
-Synthesis
-Leech Seed
-Power Whip
-Giga Drain
-Petal Dance
-Solarbeam
-Leaf Strom
-Energy Ball
-Hidden Power [Fire]
-Earthquake
-Sludge Bomb
-Swords Dance
-Substitute
-Chlorophyll
-Overgrow
-Droughtales
5. The success of Venusaur in this metagame seems highly dependant on the success of Droughtales. If I didn't know any better, I'd say these two Pokemon were pretty much made for each other.
Most of which can be mix and matched together and form a lot of different sets. Versatility has always been Venusaur's claim to fame, but now things have gotten borderline ridiculous.
Thoughts?
1. It seems like it suffers from four-slot syndrome. If it could wield [insert Grass move of choice]/Sludge Bomb/HP Fire/Growth/Sleep Powder/[insert healing move of choice], it would be much more powerful.
2. Is it just me, or is Venu unequivocably the best Sun sweeper around?
3. Maybe Sleep Powder is better off with the defensive sets (Tank, subseeding) and Growth should be given to the offensive sets?
4. If anything, Venusaur's become even more versatile than before. He has way too many options and combinations now:
-Sleep Powder
-Growth
-Synthesis
-Leech Seed
-Power Whip
-Giga Drain
-Petal Dance
-Solarbeam
-Leaf Strom
-Energy Ball
-Hidden Power [Fire]
-Earthquake
-Sludge Bomb
-Swords Dance
-Substitute
-Chlorophyll
-Overgrow
-Droughtales
5. The success of Venusaur in this metagame seems highly dependant on the success of Droughtales. If I didn't know any better, I'd say these two Pokemon were pretty much made for each other.
Most of which can be mix and matched together and form a lot of different sets. Versatility has always been Venusaur's claim to fame, but now things have gotten borderline ridiculous.
Thoughts?
@ Envoy
1) I think this would be the case for many pokemon, but yeah it is for Venusaur too. 4 Atks and Growth would also allow for insane sweeping ability.
2) I would hesitate to say the best Sun sweeper as that encompasses Ulgamosu, etc. In terms of Chlorophyll users it is most certainly the most balanced - it has good bulk, attacking prowess, speed and movepool, but is outclassed only slightly in each specific role. Perhaps this does make it the best, however, it's pretty subjective.
3) Sleep Powder and Subseeding naturally go together, yeah. I've rarely seen defensive sets be of much use with Shaymin, Celebi and Roserade offering competition, but in general Growth>Sleep Powder on offensive sets.
4) In terms of the options, Grass moves aren't too much of an issue as you just have to pick one for a slot. They just help his versatility in sets, they don't overcomplicate things. His coverage options aren't astounding, I mean EQ/HP/Sludge Bomb isn't the best choice. Overall I'd say he's not got too mnay viable options. Growth sets are mostly just variations on one another, then there's the Subseeding Growth set and possibly a set or two out of Sun (but like I said I'd think these outclassed by other Grasses in OU).
5) Well since he got Chlorophyll, yeah, ofc him and Tales are best buds :P. Tales' success as a weather changer does determine the fate of Sun teams as a whole, however.
In terms of versatility I think you're wrong however. Venu can do many many things, but in 5th Gen OU many of them are not viable or are outclassed.
1) I think this would be the case for many pokemon, but yeah it is for Venusaur too. 4 Atks and Growth would also allow for insane sweeping ability.
2) I would hesitate to say the best Sun sweeper as that encompasses Ulgamosu, etc. In terms of Chlorophyll users it is most certainly the most balanced - it has good bulk, attacking prowess, speed and movepool, but is outclassed only slightly in each specific role. Perhaps this does make it the best, however, it's pretty subjective.
3) Sleep Powder and Subseeding naturally go together, yeah. I've rarely seen defensive sets be of much use with Shaymin, Celebi and Roserade offering competition, but in general Growth>Sleep Powder on offensive sets.
4) In terms of the options, Grass moves aren't too much of an issue as you just have to pick one for a slot. They just help his versatility in sets, they don't overcomplicate things. His coverage options aren't astounding, I mean EQ/HP/Sludge Bomb isn't the best choice. Overall I'd say he's not got too mnay viable options. Growth sets are mostly just variations on one another, then there's the Subseeding Growth set and possibly a set or two out of Sun (but like I said I'd think these outclassed by other Grasses in OU).
5) Well since he got Chlorophyll, yeah, ofc him and Tales are best buds :P. Tales' success as a weather changer does determine the fate of Sun teams as a whole, however.
In terms of versatility I think you're wrong however. Venu can do many many things, but in 5th Gen OU many of them are not viable or are outclassed.
+4 Neutral 4 Attack LO Earthquake vs Blissey: 66%
I am disappointed.
*switches to Sludge Bomb*
I am disappointed.
*switches to Sludge Bomb*
Aye, another reason I prefer the purely special set. Done calcs and in order to break even with Softboiled recovery using Giga Drain, you need to get to +6 with Venusaur. However even at +2 you heal back S-Toss factoring in Lefties, so getting there is no issue. Once there you can switch to Sludge Bomb (which has greater power) to gradually wear down Blissey (or just make it run out of Softboiled PP).
So it can beat her with special attacks, which is cool. Ofc T-Wave screws Venu over, but Ice Beam only manages 35-42% on Venu, so you should be able to boost up even if it tries that on you by healing with Giga Drain.
EDIT: Ofc if you also see a Ditto on the opponent's team, it goes without saying NOT to do this under any circumstances. A +6 Ditto will rampage through your team.
alphatron
Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!
With all dream world starters being confirmed males, I am truly sad to say that specially based growth venusaur can't beat blissey/chansey after all. In addition to power whip, giga drain is also illeagal on dream world chlorophyll venusaur due to being an egg move.
Quite frankly, losing giga drain is a huge slap to the face. I can't even recall the sheer number of times where giga drain has won me matches that I would have otherwise lost. Like orb recoil being canceled out by this move was a huge plus and it kept your opponent from just switch spamming to get you into easy revenge range. While five points stronger, now we're going to have to stick with either seed bomb or energy ball (or petal dance if you don't mind locking yourself into a move that's resisted by five types)
Chlorosuar is still viable, yes. This probably won't knock him down from his position as the most effective sun sweeper. Still, it sucks for him.
Quite frankly, losing giga drain is a huge slap to the face. I can't even recall the sheer number of times where giga drain has won me matches that I would have otherwise lost. Like orb recoil being canceled out by this move was a huge plus and it kept your opponent from just switch spamming to get you into easy revenge range. While five points stronger, now we're going to have to stick with either seed bomb or energy ball (or petal dance if you don't mind locking yourself into a move that's resisted by five types)
Chlorosuar is still viable, yes. This probably won't knock him down from his position as the most effective sun sweeper. Still, it sucks for him.
This is very sad news indeed. Giga Drain was such a boon and essentially a lot of what made him stand out over the other chlorophyllers who don't have it as such a viable option. With Energy Ball he blends in more with a lot of the others, and Petal Dance is obviously a problem. Wishpassing is much more viable I suppose, without Giga Drain.
He's not the best sun sweeper, and certainly not anymore since Power Whip/Giga Drain are illegal, but he's still damn good. Sludge Bomb is still very powerful and it is your reliable STAB, so your other STAB can be Petal Dance. Everything but Heatran that resists Grass is smashed by a +2 HP Fire or Sludge Bomb, so sweeping with Petal Dance is very possible. Though now it has competition with Victreebel, who has more physical attack, Leaf Blade/Power Whip/Giga Drain, Weather Ball, Sucker Punch, and Encore. The bulk Venusaur has is great though.
You guys should really try an Overgrow tanking set, to utilize Giga Drain. Against most water pokemon he either sponges the water attack, or the inevitable ice beam puts him into Overgrow range, so that 2HKO is now a 1HKO, and you get a nice chunk of HP back.
He's really nice in a sandstorm team, to deal with troublesome water types. He also can sleep Nattorei, Rankurusu, Hippo, any stall/setup pokemon slower then it. Also acts as a hard counter to Roobushin, and absorbs toxic spikes like he always does. Just an all around good pokemon.
He's really nice in a sandstorm team, to deal with troublesome water types. He also can sleep Nattorei, Rankurusu, Hippo, any stall/setup pokemon slower then it. Also acts as a hard counter to Roobushin, and absorbs toxic spikes like he always does. Just an all around good pokemon.
Wait what? I always thought Giga Drain was a Level Up/Tm move and I look and it isn't! Lol, Giga Drain isn't a Tm in Black/White, I didn't even realize that because it is in Diamond/Pearl. Tsk, tsk, Powerwhip/Giga Drain being illegal with Chlorophyll.
The simulator isn't a 100% accurate as it lets people get away with Growth Chlorophyll Giga Drain/Powerwhip and Blaziken Speed Boost Baton Pass so until those glitches are fixed, you might as well still use it.
But dang, once it catches on to that...you have to use Energy Ball or Petal Dance with Clorophyll (Petal Dance isn't so bad, a +2 Grass type Outrage smacks hard but getting stuck against Heatran is horrible and far more types resist Grass than Dragon, especially 4x resistances which Dragonite and Heatran can take advantage of if using Petal Dance).