Actually according to the research thread, Lunar Dance (functionally similar) now switches in the target-to-be-healed at the end of the turn (IE, user dies, opponent misses, switch-in comes in safe and healed) instead of immediately like in Gen IV. It's just unconfirmed if this works the same for Healing Wish (don't see a reason it wouldn't but still.)
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Lilligant
- Thread starter Acosta
- Start date
I suppose Healing Wish is viable if you need to sacrifice Doreida for some reason at some point in time, but when do you honestly want a moveslot for it? Most Doreida will probably rely on Butterfly Dance/Sleep Powder/Grass STAB/Hidden Power as supportive Doreida often get outclassed by other grass types, namely Roserade.
Butterfly Dance basically made her viable, i've seen it outstall a crocune which was very impressive. Really made me give it more credit and showed me how underrated it may had been. I also like the design apart from the ideas of its footprints but that's a grass type for ya.
I think I saw that same video...base 110 spe attack + grass knot + suicune= fail moment anyway so :/ (well most of the time) Doredias kinda like ice creamz isn't she? Good stats but horrible movepool...luckily Doredias movepool isn't as bad as ice creamz XD. I'm surprised she doesn't learn charm...
alphatron
Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!
Much like with Jumpluff, I honestly think Doredia's place is in doubles/triples where she can succeed. She can befriend your sweeper of choice to give it Chlorophyll very easily winning you the match. If the sweeper gets statused, she can run aromatherapy.
Well even IF Doreida had access to hard hitting special type attacks like Thunderbolt, Ice beam, Aura Sphere, Flamethrower and the like, it's already bogged down for moveslots as is.
Sleep Powder is too nice to pass up since it eases prediction (unless it misses of course), cripples an opponent immensely AND gives you the time to set up Butterfly Dance that you need.
Butterfly Dance is almost essential on any set to keep it from being outclassed by Roserade, and it's the only way Doreida's going to manage staying alive against anything.
A Grass STAB is pretty much vital. Giga Drain gives Doreida the ability to survive longer as well, and it functions well with Life Orbs. Combined with Butterfly Dance, one can opt for Leftovers as well if you want to be able to go bulky with toxic spikes support. Petal Dance + Own Tempo gives a fiercely powerful 120 BP STAB attack that is boosted by Butterfly Dance, but Grass isn't the best type to be locked into, unless it's late game, in which case Doreida may not be the best choice for late game cleaning. Solarbeam is very situational, and in a metagame where sandstream reigns supreme (well, at least after rain gets banned/altered), even with insta-charged Solarbeams during the sun, Hippowdon and Tyranitar are much too common. Granted they are unlikely to switch in on you, if you lose Ninetales and then come into play, you've pretty much got a wasted moveslot.
And then you have one more moveslot, which pretty much gets tossed to Hidden Power as a method of dealing with steel types.
Wait a minute, Own Tempo actually prevents confusion from Outrage-like attacks?
Man, now I'm imagining that event Heatran with Eruption and Chlorophyll... Yeah this looks like an awesome Doubles/Trips Strategy to me.
In any case I don't see much reason at all to run her in the higher tiers sadly. As a chlorophyller she is vastly outclassed due to her awful coverage, and with BD's speed boost becoming obsolete under Sun that doesn't really help her when Growth is now so good. Other Grass types have Sleep Powder and can use it better in Sun. In a supporting role she's outclassed by Roserade, Shaymin etc. It's a sad case for this awesome design that it had to be put into such an overpopulated type group.
I would assume so, unless the ability is like Clear Body and self-inflicted status don't count.
Hmm, I missed this in your post. I'll admit that with a combo of SP/BD and now the powerful Petal Dance with fewer drawbacks it may have some form of a role as a boosting tank? But with Grass's many weaknesses I'm dubious as to whether it would succeed or not.
If Perversity Jaroda is released its potential as a bulky Grass sweeper with awful coverage is under even more threat, as well.
Yes.
wait... Doredia gets Anger Powder? Serebii doesn't say she learns it.
If healing wish does indeed work at the end of the turn, I think this has potential:
Doredia @ Choice Scarf/Specs (with sun support)
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid/Modest
-Leaf Storm
-Hidden Power [something]
-Sleep Powder
-Healing Wish
It's hard to get 2 butterfly dances against a good opponent, and Doredia will always need 2 (without sun) to beat scarf revenges and pose a threat (due to horrible STAB and movepool issues).
Doredia @ Choice Scarf/Specs (with sun support)
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid/Modest
-Leaf Storm
-Hidden Power [something]
-Sleep Powder
-Healing Wish
It's hard to get 2 butterfly dances against a good opponent, and Doredia will always need 2 (without sun) to beat scarf revenges and pose a threat (due to horrible STAB and movepool issues).
I was scrolling through Lilligant's deplorable movepool, and thinking about Volcarona, when I though about something. What about (for singles) a set balanced between support and offense?
Lilligant w/ Leftovers + Own Tempo/Leaf Guard
Bold Nature, 252 HP, 252 Def, 6 Sp Def
Leech Seed
Toxic/Sleep Powder
Quiver Dance
Petal Dance
Own Tempo is generally the superior choice, but Leaf Guard is an idea if you're running a Drought Team.
Lilligant w/ Leftovers + Own Tempo/Leaf Guard
Bold Nature, 252 HP, 252 Def, 6 Sp Def
Leech Seed
Toxic/Sleep Powder
Quiver Dance
Petal Dance
Own Tempo is generally the superior choice, but Leaf Guard is an idea if you're running a Drought Team.
The best thing to do with Lilligant is a blend between offence and support, as at pure offence other Chlorophyllers outclass it, and at pure support Jumpluff does. In any case, Chlorophyll is the best ability for her on Sun, no doubt about it. Quiver Dance is essentially Confuse Ray but wasting your Ability slot as well, and given her poor Def she won't be taking one hit from something that avoids confusion. Leaf Guard is less useful (unless it cures Confusion, in which case it>Own tempo I guess) than Chlorophyll in most situations - the added speed is simply invaluable, especially when she has Aromatherapy.
Too many things wall Petal Dance to run it effectively - go with Giga Drain imo. as a second attack, HP Fire or Ice is probably best. Sleep Powder to nail a counter, and the last slot for a support move like Healing Wish, Aromatherapy, etc. You'll want at least some speed to abuse that fast Sleep Powder, and probably to revenge some scarfers/boosters too. A balance between Spe, HP and SpAtk seems good to me.
Running it off Sun just makes it somewhat outclassed, imo.
EDIT: Herp, wrong Dance move being thought of...
You're thinking of Teeter Dance, Quiver Dance is the English name for Butterfly Dance, +Sp.Attack/Sp.Def/Speed
Doreida @ Big Root
252 HP /212 Speed / 44 Sp.A Modest
-Leech Seed
-Protect
-Leaf Storm
-Teeter Dance
252 HP /212 Speed / 44 Sp.A Modest
-Leech Seed
-Protect
-Leaf Storm
-Teeter Dance
Lilligant can sweep if it wants to, but you're assuming that just because it gets Chlorophyll/Leaf Guard that it has to be run on a sun team. Truthfully, it would probably fit better on a sand team, where it can sponge grass/water hits, throw out a QD, and then start to sweep from there.
Not good at all, IMO. I'd probably have this instead:
-Substitute
-Leech Seed
-Giga Drain/Petal Dance (if using Own Tempo)
-Hidden Power (Fire/Ice)
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
Item: Leftovers
Lilligant is still outclassed by Sceptile or Shaymin (Sky Forme) when it comes to SubSeeding, however.
I use a Doreida sometimes on my Random Matchup team, and it's horrible. Maybe it's just that I try to setup whenever possible, but I can just never get in a situation that I can setup.. Maybe it's because I don't use Sleep Powder (The EV'ed one that someone traded me had Quiver/GigaDrain/PetalDance/HP-Fire) so I can't really set up on anything since they attack physically (even Special Attackers do alot, since I can't set up a Quiver Dance) which really limits Doreida's usefulness on my team. I end up just sending out Aianto to sweep in her place (which is no doubt more useful if I can get a Claw Sharpen up, since it has Hustle so I need more accuracy)
...Well, then. Multi battles in the sun sound, well, promising.
Gentlemen.
Just a copy & paste from my current OU Sun RTM. People have been asking me for the Lilligant set I use, so I might as well post it here too.
Just a copy & paste from my current OU Sun RTM. People have been asking me for the Lilligant set I use, so I might as well post it here too.
Kalle Demos (Lilligant) (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Sleep Powder
- Healing Wish
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Rock]
Roserade's little sister. Lilligant is usually my lead and for good reason. She can OHKO all other opposing Weather-starting leads that LOVE to abuse Ninetales' high speed (except Abomasnow) and Sleep Powder their common switch-ins. After a Sleep Powder, that's usually my Ninetales' cue to switch-in. With the popularity of Tyranitar and the amount of players that seem to forget that Tyranitar does get OHKO'd by a Lilligant/Roserade/Exeggutor/Tangrowth Leaf Storm, I almost just get free wins from Sand teams, especially since Lilligant is never known to run Leaf Storm anyway. When I take out their Weather Starter on turn 1, that's it. Excadrill becomes too slow, Starmie gets entirely shafted by Snorlax, Vaporeon becomes laughable, and the list goes on.
"Okay, so what? Tyranitar can just switch out to-" To what? Heatran? Latios? Volcarona in Sand? Snorlax OHKOs them all with Return, Pursuit, & Earthquake respectively and just shrugs off their attacks due to his massive Special Defensive bulk. (Only taking 60% from Spec Draco Meteor and only 31.4% - 37.2% max from Volcarona IN SUN) The great thing about using Leaf Storm is that Lilligant not only OKHOs Tyranitar, but she OHKOs all of the common faster Sandstorm Pokemon. Gliscor, Garchomp, Excadrill, Landorus? All OHKOd by Leaf Storm. Pokemon like Ferrothorn & Scizor that resist Grass STAB, will have to deal with Sleep Powder the next turn so they're not even a truly safe switch-in without a Lum Berry. Espeon is OHKO'd or at the most 2HKO'd by Leaf Storm and ruined by Snorlax. Xatu loses a great chunk of his HP from Leaf Storm, easily bringing him into HP Rock's KO range even at -2 Sp.Attack.
Now you might ask "No Quiver Dance?! What is this?!" Well, it's the fact Leaf Storm makes Quiver Dance nearly pointless and Healing Wish is far too good to pass up. Having a Full Restore on the team at the cost of just one moveslot is invalueable. With Sleep Powder, a 140 Base Power attack from 350 Sp.Atk, and a Full Restore coming from 556 speed in Sunlight, Lilligant can completely change the tide of battle against nearly any foe.
