Haxorus

[Articanus]

I feel the best way to abuse Ononokusu is to take into account what your opponent's team is during the team preview stage and abuse this set;

Ononokusu @ Life Orb
Mold Breaker: Jolly
4 HP, 252 Attack, 252 Speed
Outrage
Earthquake
Swords Dance
Dragon Dance

It is not the most original set, but it can punch holes into any team that has a single pokemon below base 97 speed(likely). Taking into account your opponent's team and general playstyle, choose whether it's best to SD DD or just plain Outrage. Earthquake hits everything that resists it except Skarmory, but even he stands a great chance of being 2HKOed by an SDed outrage.

Edit: Goddamn 999 post. Now I have to make a warstory for my 1000th...

 

[TSPhoenix]

I've been messing around with CB Ono and yeah it really needs other options for its moveslots as I have literally never used anything other than outrage.

As stupid as it sounds on a CB set, stuff like Toxic, Taunt, Brick Break, Dragon Tail, Counter, Double Chop would all be better options than DClaw and X-Scissor due to their added utility.

Something like Outrage, Dragon Tail, Brick Break, Taunt would be more practical than a 4-attack set simply because I find its almost pointless to use anything but Outrage as an attack if Nattorei or Skarm aren't around.

 

[cosmicexplorer]

@Pokemon Trainer R: You don't seem to understand that Guillotine will not hit. First of all, Ono's locked into it, so any Ghost can easily setup on it. But second, it just won't hit. Skarmory gets to setup free Spikes while Ono misses again and again, and then the Skarmory user gets to switch to something that can setup on it. 30% accuracy is absolutely terrible and should not be considered.

I've found that even at +2 Attack, Ono can't 2HKO my Natt.

Max attack Ono with Life Orb actually 2HKOs Nattorei, but it otherwise serves as an effective counter.

@Articanus: I think a double dancing set is probably more suited to SD+RP sweepers like Randorosu or Terakion, as they are less frail and can go faster after a boost.

 

[Lee]

@Pokemon Trainer R: You don't seem to understand that Guillotine will not hit. First of all, Ono's locked into it, so any Ghost can easily setup on it. But second, it just won't hit. Skarmory gets to setup free Spikes while Ono misses again and again, and then the Skarmory user gets to switch to something that can setup on it. 30% accuracy is absolutely terrible and should not be considered.

You're darn right it won't hit. Skarmory has Sturdy - I know we're all caught up with the new side-effect of Sturdy but don't forget that it also causes all OHKO moves to automatically fail. So Guillotine has a 0% chance to OHKO Skarmory, not 30%.

 

[cosmicexplorer]

Mold Breaker bypasses Sturdy, doesn't it? I thought the same thing until someone pointed that out.

 

[Lee]

Yup, my bad. Still a dumb option for the reasons you stated though. Ononokusu has a few better options for repelling Skarmory, namely Taunt and Dragon Tail and whilst neither are going to guarantee his success they're a lot more reliable than Guillotine.

 

[BurningMan]

Yup, my bad. Still a dumb option for the reasons you stated though. Ononokusu has a few better options for repelling Skarmory, namely Taunt and Dragon Tail and whilst neither are going to guarantee his success they're a lot more reliable than Guillotine.

Taunt on a choice set? really?

and how is Dragon Tail helping to deal with Skarmory he gets a free BB/Roost/Spikes on you while you deal like 5% damage.

sure Guillotine may be wasted on DD/SD sets but for choice sets its the best solution for his Skarmory Problem.

@Cosmicexplorer Yeah it never hits in the same way Focus Blast and Stone Edge never miss 30% is quite good for something that OHKOs EVERYTIME it hits. Also you may consider never running EQ as every Flying type can switch in and easily set up -.-

 

[Legacy Raider]

On a choice set, why bother using Guillotine if you're predicting a Skarm switch in? Why not use it as a free double switch to your Heatran and get a Nitro Charge up, your Uruagamosu for a free Butterfly Dance, your Rotom-W for a free hit against the opposing team, or... dare I say it, your Magnezone to actually get rid of the pest. Instead of throwing Guillotine around willy-nilly, practically handing your opponent the momentum in a box with a ribbon on top.

For a choice set, I would use Outrage / Earthquake / Dragon Claw / Double Chop

Dragon Claw is a reliable alternative scouting move, and Double Chop may be helpful in rare circumstances. Other than that, there are basically no other moves that should be considered tbh (possibly Dragon Tail but still not really).

 

[cosmicexplorer]

Taunt on a choice set? really?

and how is Dragon Tail helping to deal with Skarmory he gets a free BB/Roost/Spikes on you while you deal like 5% damage.

sure Guillotine may be wasted on DD/SD sets but for choice sets its the best solution for his Skarmory Problem.

@Cosmicexplorer Yeah it never hits in the same way Focus Blast and Stone Edge never miss 30% is quite good for something that OHKOs EVERYTIME it hits. Also you may consider never running EQ as every Flying type can switch in and easily set up -.-

He didn't mean Taunt to be used on a Choice set.

Dragon Tail phazes Skarmory out as it switches in, making it take ~25% damage along with Stealth Rock.

Stone Edge's accuracy is 80%, not 70%, and even so, they actually do not miss very often, it's just that those moves are often used for vital coverage and lead to dangerous situations when they do miss.

When was EQ mentioned at all?

Guillotine will never hit. Ever.

 

[LordVanitas]

This is the set I use.
Ononokusu @ Life Orb
Mold Breaker
Nature:Jolly
4 HP 252 Attack 252 Speed
Outrage
Earthquake
Dragon Dance
Shadow Claw

Sazandora is still better in my opinion though.

 

[cosmicexplorer]

Why Shadow Claw?

 

[PK Gaming]

On a choice set, why bother using Guillotine if you're predicting a Skarm switch in? Why not use it as a free double switch to your Heatran and get a Nitro Charge up, your Uruagamosu for a free Butterfly Dance, your Rotom-W for a free hit against the opposing team, or... dare I say it, your Magnezone to actually get rid of the pest. Instead of throwing Guillotine around willy-nilly, practically handing your opponent the momentum in a box with a ribbon on top.

For a choice set, I would use Outrage / Earthquake / Dragon Claw / Double Chop

Dragon Claw is a reliable alternative scouting move, and Double Chop may be helpful in rare circumstances. Other than that, there are basically no other moves that should be considered tbh (possibly Dragon Tail but still not really).

Brick Break is an option to deal with Nattorei. IIRC EQ doesn't 2HKO with a Jolly nature, while Brick Break is a clean 2HKO.

 

[BurningMan]

On a choice set, why bother using Guillotine if you're predicting a Skarm switch in? Why not use it as a free double switch to your Heatran and get a Nitro Charge up, your Uruagamosu for a free Butterfly Dance, your Rotom-W for a free hit against the opposing team, or... dare I say it, your Magnezone to actually get rid of the pest. Instead of throwing Guillotine around willy-nilly, practically handing your opponent the momentum in a box with a ribbon on top.

Maybe Heatran/Ulgamoth whatever already died and you got nothing left that is able to effectivly deal with Skarm and this is where i would use it.
I didn't meant to use it as your surefire Skarmory solution, because 30% is far away from reliable but as a possible back up plan, because we all now that shit happens and having something like this could save you the game and propably more often than Double Chop would.


@cosmicexplorer you are just being completly ignorant
Dragon tail is completly stupid on any choiced set because THIS actually makes you set up fodder and leaves you easily revenge killed.

When was EQ mentioned?
its on every set and there is not only a type but also an ability(that gets negated thanks to Mold Breaker) and an item that makes you immune to it. So i dont see why Ghost types being immune Guillotine is so much of an issue for you.

@PK Gaming Brick Break is dangerous against Nattorei because Gyro Ball coupled with Iron Barbs recoil will allow Nattorei to KO you so your propably better off switching out of nattorei :/

 

[darkjd4]

I Just swept almost a whole team with him as my lead

 

[cosmicexplorer]

How is Dragon Tail setup fodder? It phazes, so anything setting up will be blown out. It makes Ono's counters take hazard damage, making it easier for it to clean them up later, and it hits pretty hard with Ono's excellent attack stat. And it means the other team can't just stat up to +6 while Ono tries to hit them with a 30% accuracy move. Ghost types being immune to Guillotine matters because it's already a terrible move to be locked into, unlike Earthquake, which has excellent coverage with Mold Breaker and can actually do some damage.

Also, SD Ono's BB 2HKOs Nattorei without dying to Iron Barbs + Gyro Ball, IIRC. But DD sets are murdered.

 

[Sheaz]

I Just swept almost a whole team with him as my lead

Congrats for playing a bad opponent.

 

[darkjd4]

He is usualy really good but he misclicked one attack which ended it for him

 

[SupremeDirt]

He is usualy really good but he misclicked one attack which ended it for him

Congratulations on playing a bad opponent.



BurningMan, Guillotine's accuracy is 0%. OHKO Clause. End of discussion.

Skarmory is set-up fodder for a number of things. If you're predicting a switch in by it, switch to whatever you feel like to set up on it. Preferably a Heatran or other Fire type move user. Before you even pull the bs argument of a whirlwind or free spikes setup, BAMF, Fire Blast, dead.

And remember Team Preview! You will know if they have something with Flash Fire. Which means you can react accordingly.

 

[BurningMan]

How is Dragon Tail setup fodder? It phazes, so anything setting up will be blown out. It makes Ono's counters take hazard damage, making it easier for it to clean them up later, and it hits pretty hard with Ono's excellent attack stat. And it means the other team can't just stat up to +6 while Ono tries to hit them with a 30% accuracy move. Ghost types being immune to Guillotine matters because it's already a terrible move to be locked into, unlike Earthquake, which has excellent coverage with Mold Breaker and can actually do some damage.

Also, SD Ono's BB 2HKOs Nattorei without dying to Iron Barbs + Gyro Ball, IIRC. But DD sets are murdered.

It doesn't phazes Substitutes and everyone that stats up against an OHKO move is a terrible player.

oh and brick break is a horrible move on SD sets Taunt is way better as it allows you to break Stall and EQ 2HKOs anyway while it fails to OHKO you.


@SupremeDirt could you send me the link of your imaginary Smogon Server you are using?

Ofc Skarmory is Set Up fodder for a number of things, but as i said its a back up plan and those are always good to have.

 

[SupremeDirt]

This message is hidden because BurningMan is on your ignore list.

Continuing, I see a base 60 SpA stat. That tempts me. Tempts me a lot.

Spekusu
Mold Breaker | Rash
252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
~ Hidden Power [Fire]/Incinerate
~ Dragon Pulse
~ Outrage
~ Taunt

What is the point of this? Why, it's a dedicated special wall lure. Lure out their special wall, and Outrage it into submission.

 

[Mufasa]

nobody is going to send in a special wall against special ononokosu... they'll just be like lol and smack it

 

[cosmicexplorer]

@PK Gaming Brick Break is dangerous against Nattorei because Gyro Ball coupled with Iron Barbs recoil will allow Nattorei to KO you so your propably better off switching out of nattorei :/

oh and brick break is a horrible move on SD sets Taunt is way better as it allows you to break Stall and EQ 2HKOs anyway while it fails to OHKO you.

So does Gyro Ball OHKO or not? And really, when Ono's OHKOing everything else, and the things it can't OHKO can attack and KO it if it Taunts, Taunt really doesn't help much for "breaking stall," while Brick Break does allow Ono to get some good coverage on an SD set without locking itself into Outrage.

Also, why does Dragon Tail not phazing subs matter? It's meant to get some hazard damage on Ono's counters, like Skarmory and Nattorei, while also doing good damage and scouting the opponent's team. Anyway, Ono's Dragon Tail will break any subs it meets, so it's a non-issue.

Using a stat-up move against a Choice-locked OHKO move is actually an excellent idea. If the opponent is giving you a free turn by using a 30% accuracy move, why not use it to stat-up?

Guillotine is not a back-up plan, it's giving the turn away to the opponent, allowing them to do whatever they want. It's a terrible idea and shouldn't even be considered.

@Supreme Dirt:

nobody is going to send in a special wall against special ononokosu... they'll just be like lol and smack it

 

[Granstafer]

So... If you want to beat skarmory so bad that you want to resort to guillotine (the current image of terrible in this thread),...Get another revenge killer! cosmicexplorer pretty much explained my whole point, aside from the gyro ball thing and Dragon tail not phazing subs, which I would choose over guillotine 110% of the time on a choice set. In my final opinion, Ononokusu's jobs are A. wallbreaker B. sweeper. Revenge killing is much outclassed by Flygon.

 

[BurningMan]

Ah sorry forget the Gyro Ball shit if Ono OHKOs at +2 it should only take the 12% Iron Barbs damage and be fine if it uses EQ it 2HKOs with SR and Lefties (wich aren't that common thanks to magnezone/Shandera) and take 35-40% Gyro Ball Damage.
So your right Brick Break would be superior for nattorei, still i think taunt is better as it allows you to set up against Skarmory, Blissey and the likes without risking status or phazing, but its up to preference i guess.
For choice sets Brick Break doesn't help with much the 2HKO on Natt is cool, but you will take 24% Iron Barbs recoil + Gyro Ball damage or a layer of spikes and if he got leech Seed you even get leech seeded so you will take a lot of damage just to 2HKO him.

Come on not phazing subs matters and there are things that can make subs Ono can't break. Dragon Tail has its uses, but on a choiced set it isn't that great because of negative priority and Ono doesn't like to take hits.

You shouldn't use it to stat up because there is a 30% chance that you die. It WILL hit in one out of three turns, you treat it like Splash wich it isn't.
its a high risk high reward move that can turn a match you would have lost otherwise.

 

[Legacy Raider]

You shouldn't use it to stat up because there is a 30% chance that you die. It WILL hit in one out of three turns, you treat it like Splash wich it isn't.
its a high risk high reward move that can turn a match you would have lost otherwise.

Go read up on some basic statistics. And then take a holiday. Then maybe consider posting again when you get back. BurningMan, please realize when everyone is posting against you in a thread that there might be an oh so tiny possibility that you're wrong. Fix up your act before you appear on more people's ignore lists.