Abomasnow (Update)

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http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/abomasnow

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[Overview]

<p>Abomasnow is a fairly unique Pokemon, but that doesn't mean anything in the competitive environment. Here, peer scrutiny favors only the best of the best, and simply said, Abomasnow isn't one of them at all. Its typing brings it a total of 7 weaknesses, many of which are common types such as Steel, Fire, and Fighting. This is compounded by a further weakness to Stealth Rock, mediocre stats all-round, and a barely adequate movepool, so it would seem that Abomasnow's fate in the OU tier is pretty clear.</p>

<p>It's not all bad news though, as Abomasnow's merits are still worth a look. For a start, it's the only auto-hail inducer in the game, and though this limits the variety of Pokemon you can use alongside it, it does give it a nice niche in the metagame. Its typing also has its advantages; resistances to Water and Electric with a neutrality to Ice make it a great check to the many Water-types of the tier. Abomasnow also boasts 2 high-powered STAB options in Wood Hammer and Blizzard to make up for its middling attacking stats. All in all, no matter how you look at it, Abomasnow is a mixed bag of a Pokemon, pure and simple.</p>

[SET]
name: Leech Seed
move 1: Leech Seed
move 2: Protect / Substitute
move 3: Wood Hammer / Grass Knot
move 4: Blizzard / Ice Shard
nature: Sassy
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Abomasnow's typing makes it particularly good at dealing with the many Water-types in the OU tier, and pretty much any other special attacker that lacks a super effective attack (e.g. Jolteon). This allows it a good number of opportunities to switch in and stall out an opponent with Leech Seed. Protect and Substitute help with the execution of this strategy (though Abomasnow's poor Speed stat makes the latter a poorer option), while the last 2 slots are for dedicated STAB attacks. Wood Hammer and Blizzard are the more reliable and powerful options, but Grass Knot and Ice Shard make viable alternatives. The former having no recoil in comparison with Wood Hammer, and the latter being an ever-useful priority move.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Due to its typing, basically every physical attacker in the entire metagame will be able to hit Abomasnow super effectively. Hence very little investment is concentrated in physical defense, and everything is instead put into Abomasnow's special bulk. In terms of other options, Focus Punch can be used in conjunction with Substitute to deal with the Steel-types that Abomasnow generally has troubles with. A faster spread with a Timid nature can also be run, but Abomasnow does not have that much Speed to work with at all, and would prefer the bulkier spread most of the time.</p>

<p>Toxic Spikes, and all entry hazards in general, make an excellent option to include in your team simply because of the nature of this strategy. Tentacruel is an excellent candidate to take up this task as it has decent bulk and almost perfect synergy with Abomasnow. It also has access to Rapid Spin, which gets rid of any harmful entry hazards your opponent may set up. Pokemon with hail-related abilities, such as Snow Body or Snow Cloak, pair up well with Abomasnow for obvious reasons. However, including too many of them on your team can make it incredibly vulnerable to Fighting, so a Ghost-type such as Rotom-A is also recommended to patch that hole up. Finally, Kingdra deserves a special mention, as it is able to very easily come in on any Fire-type attack aimed at Abomasnow and set up Dragon Dances with near impunity.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Blizzard
move 2: Wood Hammer
move 3: Hidden Power Fire
move 4: Earthquake
nature: Hasty
item: Choice Scarf
evs: 164 Atk / 116 SpA / 228 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>While Abomasnow's attacking stats are average at best, its powerful and reliable STAB options in Blizzard and Wood Hammer means that it can still be a viable offensive threat. With a Choice Scarf attached, Abomasnow will also be able to outspeed many Pokemon it couldn't before, including Dragonite, Infernape, and Gengar, making it that much more dangerous. Hidden Power Fire and Earthquake cover the Steel-types that resist both STABs; while Hidden Power deals with Scizor and Forretress, Earthquake can be used to demolish Heatran.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EV spread allows Abomasnow to outspeed everything up to positive-natured base 110s, as well as always OHKO physically defensive Forretress with Hidden Power Fire after Stealth Rock. Whatever's left is then dumped in Attack to power up the rest of the moveset as much as possible. Focus Punch is an option to hit Blissey, who walls the rest of the set. If you'd prefer not to split EVs, going fully special with Grass Knot and Focus Blast over Wood Hammer and Earthquake is also an option. Since Abomasnow is going to be doing relatively high amounts of switching with this set, a Rapid Spin user is advised. Tentacruel and Starmie are both excellent candidates that have good synergy with Abomasnow. On a dedicated hail team, Abomasnow can perform the role of a revenge killer adequately, and works well with mixed Mamoswine, who can break down walls with its own 100% accurate STAB Blizzard.</p>

[SET]
name: Mixed Attacker
move 1: Blizzard
move 2: Wood Hammer
move 3: Ice Shard
move 4: Earthquake / Focus Punch
nature: Brave
item: Leftovers / Life Orb
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpA

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Abomasnow's movepool and stats are just enough to run a decent mixed set with 4 attacking moves. Despite the typically offensive nature of these type of sets, Leftovers is the preferred item choice here for survivability, since one of the hardest parts of using Abomasnow is keeping it alive through entry hazards when it relies upon constant switching; without the power, speed, or bulk of the Choice and Leech Seed sets, the task becomes that much harder, which is why Leftovers is recommended over Life Orb. Life Orb tends to kill Abomasnow off faster than it would like, but can be worth it on incredibly fast-paced offensive teams.</p>

<p>Blizzard and Wood Hammer are the power STAB moves available to Abomasnow that allow this set to be viable, and they do good damage to many things. Ice Shard is STAB priority that is especially useful for picking off Dragon-type Pokemon, and Earthquake covers the Steel-types that resist the rest of the moveset. If you're feeling especially bold, you could run the more powerful (but risky) Focus Punch, which also deals major damage to Blissey, another troublesome Pokemon. Without any form of protection though, you'd have to have some impressive prediction skills for it to work.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Maximizing both attacking stats is the way to go here, as Abomasnow's going to want all the power that it can get with no Life Orb. Diverting some EVs into Speed is a reasonable idea though, in order to outspeed specific threats; at least a neutral nature is required to outspeed Blissey and Swampert, and a further 84 EVs are needed for Skarmory. Hidden Power Fire can be used to net the OHKO on Forretress and Scizor, while Substitute / Protect can be used to ease prediction. Team-wise, you're going to want something to make up for Abomasnow's poor Speed stat, like paralysis support. Rotom-A is able to provide this with Thunder Wave, and can switch in for free on any Fighting-type attacks aimed at Abomasnow; it can also benefit from Abomasnow's indefinite hail with its access to Blizzard. Other than that, the usual hail Pokemon make obvious teammates.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Blizzard
move 2: Grass Knot / Energy Ball
move 3: Hidden Power Fire
move 4: Focus Blast / Focus Punch
nature: Modest / Mild
item: Choice Specs
evs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 SpA

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>With a pair of slick Choice Specs on, Abomasnow's Blizzard packs quite a punch, and will be doing good damage to anything that doesn't resist it (bar Blissey and Snorlax), despite Abomasnow's only modest Special Attack. Grass Knot is the secondary STAB that covers Water-types, while also hitting Rock-types such as Tyranitar harder and more reliably. Hidden Power Fire OHKOes even the most specially defensive of Scizor and Forretress, while standing a chance to 2HKO Bronzong as well. Finally, a Fighting-type move in Focus Blast helps round off the coverage, KOing switch-ins such as Heatran and Tyranitar with ease. Even though it's super effective, Focus Blast still doesn't even come close to 2HKOing Blissey, so Focus Punch is a fair alternative to do just that. It is weaker in almost every other aspect though.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Special Attack is maximized, and so is overall bulk, with 4 EVs taken out of HP to reduce the damage done by Stealth Rock. A faster spread with a Timid nature can be run, but is not recommended. Much like the Choice Scarf set, Choice Specs Abomasnow abhors Stealth Rock, and appreciates their removal. Starmie and Tentacruel make excellent spinners due to their synergy with Abomasnow. Donphan can also do this, and it provides a sturdy Rock resist for Abomasnow; it is also able to utilize Stealth Rock effectively, which can help secure several KOs for Abomasnow. Finally, the slow Abomasnow appreciates paralysis support, which can be provided by something like Slowbro, who resists Fire and Fighting, though shares a Bug-type weakness.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>A Choice Band set may seem appealing, but Abomasnow lacks a good neutral physical STAB attack, and will often find itself being forced out or taking more damage than it can dish out. A Swords Dance set is not recommended for the same reason; in addition, the prediction skills required for it to be effective are not realistic, and many of its uses can be accomplished without Swords Dance. Seed Bomb can replace Wood Hammer on any Abomasnow set if you don't like the recoil, while Energy Ball can replace Grass Knot to hit lighter Pokemon, though most of the Grass attack's targets are quite heavy anyway. Both Seed Bomb and Energy Ball are generally the weaker alternatives, however. Abomasnow has access to Light Screen, Safeguard, and Mist, but there are so many bulkier Pokemon that would make better use of them.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Scizor resists both of Abomasnow's STABs, and can destroy Abomasnow with Bullet Punch before it can even make a move. It also packs U-turn to ruin any Leech Seed shenanigans. Bronzong and Forretress both work decently as counters with Gyro Ball, but their lack of Speed makes them easy targets for Leech Seed. Metagross doesn't take much damage from Earthquake and can easily OHKO with Meteor Mash; Bullet Punch also does massive damage, and helps to avoid any Leech Seed attempts. Jirachi shrugs off Earthquake too, and can U-turn or simply tear down Abomasnow with Iron Head or Fire Punch. Tyranitar despises being hit by Wood Hammer and must beware of Focus Punch, but can switch in easily on Blizzard and negate its perfect accuracy with Sand Stream. Tyranitar can then hit back with a super effective Stone Edge or a powerful Crunch.</p>

<p>Fire-types are a big problem if Abomasnow doesn't pack Earthquake, and even then, many are faster and able to revenge kill with little to no consequence. Stone Edge Gyarados is another good check, as its high Special Defense allows it to sponge neutral STAB attacks quite well. It also has the option of using Taunt to block Leech Seed. Weavile greatly fears Focus Punch and takes considerable damage from Wood Hammer, but is immune to the effects of Snow Warning and can outspeed and KO with Brick Break. Switching into Abomasnow can be very annoying, so prey on any of its many weaknesses and keep attacking, it will fall soon enough.</p>

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Credits
  • QC period - Megan_Fox
  • GP Check 1 - Athenodoros
  • Proofread - Eos
  • Leftovers Clarification - Rising_Dusk
  • GP Check 2 - Fatecrashers
 
Choice Scarf Abomasnow is great and I definitely do not want to see it removed. It doesn't have the same Speed stat that makes Tyranitar excellent, but it can switch in and do a lot of damage to things that would normally outspeed it. I've had great success with it, and generally speaking it's the set I most frequently use when I opt for Abomasnow on heavily offensive hail-based teams.
 
Alright Dusk, Ill add it back later today. I was borderline on that set anyways, so I probably should have posted it. The points you made make sense so i can agree on it. CB however, doesn't seem to be good.
 
I also feel the CB set isn't analysis worthy. I tried it on a team once and the results were pretty bad. There are way to many better Choice Band users that outclass Abomasnow. I found it getting forced out way too often and taking more damage from Stealth Rock on the switch-in then damage that Abomasnow actually dishes out.
 
Why was SD removed? Between seed bomb, Ice Shard in priority and EQ it achieves good coverage and has STAB priority. Sure it would require team support and/or paralysis support but it could work.
 

panamaxis

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I agree with removing the CB set, however I'm also wondering why we want to remove the Swords Dance set. Just off the top of my head, being able to revenge dragonite with Ice Shard is pretty huge reason to keep it up there but if needed I can probably think of a couple of other reasons why we shouldn't remove it.
 
Why was SD removed? Between seed bomb, Ice Shard in priority and EQ it achieves good coverage and has STAB priority. Sure it would require team support and/or paralysis support but it could work.

The amount of prediction and support needed to use that set is so high, nearly all the time, you'll be forced out by any number of pokemon faster than you and needing pretty much every Pokemon on the other team paralyzed / weakened to even think of sweeping, and being forced out way too easily really makes his SR weakness even worse than it already is.
 
The amount of prediction and support needed to use that set is so high, nearly all the time, you'll be forced out by any number of pokemon faster than you and needing pretty much every Pokemon on the other team paralyzed / weakened to even think of sweeping, and being forced out way too easily really makes his SR weakness even worse than it already is.
Still Stab Ice Shard is nothing to scoff at as it compensates somewhat for its lower Speed. With a +2 against Inferanpe with a neutral nature your dealing 33%-39% and considering he resists it this is pretty huge. However aside from that, being able to reliably revenge kill pokemon like Choice Scarf Flygon is huge. Best of all I can see this being very effective against the now extremely popular bulky waters. I'm not saying this is the frosted trees best set but I think it should still be on site.
 

Seven Deadly Sins

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SD Aboma is terrible. The +2 is so irrelevant when the only way to use it is with the godlike prediction needed to catch its counters 100% of the time, and at that point, the only thing SD does for it is take away from its coverage.

Read this thread for more details.
 

panamaxis

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Okay so forget SD then, I still think we should have a set up there with EQ and Ice Shard. EQ, Ice Shard Wood Hammer Blizzard or something sounds pretty good to me being able to hit a lot of its counters. Seems to me that in a lot of cases a straight up EQ will do a number on a lot of abomasnow's counters and we don't even have eq listed on any of the sets atm.
 

Seven Deadly Sins

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I agree that a straight up mixed Abomasnow definitely seems legit, as it can revenge dragons with Ice Shard and threaten with its powerful STABs. I might test it out, but not sure.
 

Setsuna

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Okay so forget SD then, I still think we should have a set up there with EQ and Ice Shard. EQ, Ice Shard Wood Hammer Blizzard or something sounds pretty good to me being able to hit a lot of its counters. Seems to me that in a lot of cases a straight up EQ will do a number on a lot of abomasnow's counters and we don't even have eq listed on any of the sets atm.
Sounds good to me.

The rest of the OP looks fine.
 
Added Scarf and Mixed attacker. Keep in mind I haven't tested Mixed attacker yet so if anyone has anything to say about the current set in the OP, do so.
 
I tested it and I don't know if I used it wrong or not but I was rather disappointed with the results. It looks good on paper but Abomnasnow isn't powerful enough even with having good attacks to break walls and not only is it extremely slow but its also weak to Stealth Rock. Even with Paralysis support I would find he would rarely net me a KO as anyting decently bulky would easily survive and strike one of Abomnasnow's many weaknesses. Also I found I didn't really need to use Blizzard very often. The only thing I foung it even remotely useful for was countering the average Water-Type but Abonasnow was too weak to do much after that besides being death fodder.
 
[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Blizzard
move 2: Grass Knot / Energy Ball
move 3: Hidden Power Fire
move 4: Focus Blast / Focus Punch
nature: Modest / Mild
item: Choice Specs
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA

[SET COMMENTS]


  • Changed Speed EV's to HP
  • Specs Blizzard with 100% accuracy is very threatening
  • Grass Knot hits all Grass types
  • Hidden Power Fire hits Scizor and Fortress
  • Focus Blast hits Heatran and Steel Types in general
[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

  • Speed EVs get an AC mention
  • Focus Punch hits Blissey
  • Energy ball hits opponent for reliable damage despite the weight of the opponent.
EV's were changed to Def, and Grass Knot hits all Water types.


[SET]
name: Mixed Attacker
move 1: Blizzard
move 2: Wood Hammer
move 3: Ice Shard
move 4: Earthquake / Focus Punch
nature: Brave
item: Leftovers / Life Orb
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpA

[SET COMMENTS]


  • Mixed Sweeper with a 4 attack movepool
  • Blizzard with 100% accuracy is very threatening to all who do not resist
  • Wood Hammer hits all water types
  • Earthquake hits all steel types
  • Ice Shard gives priority
  • 252/252 attack stats maximize damage output
[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

  • Speed EVs can be viable
  • Focus Punch hits Blissey
  • Hidden Power Fire can be run to net the OHKO on Fortress and Scizor
I've run this set as lead quite succesfuly with Protect instead of Earthquake for scouting the likes of jirachi and fakeouters while removing their sash with hail (weavile keeps it), wood hammer smacks on foolish swamperts that stay to SR, blizzard + hail take on non attacking aerodactyls; ice shard finishes off leads that survived the attack + hail damage.

12 EV's in Spe or neutral nature outspeed min tyranitar, which can be taken down with a LO Wood Hammer (252 HP / 4 Def and lower HP variants), with the option of switching out and in again later to regain the weather advantage =D
 

AccidentalGreed

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12 EV's in Spe or neutral nature outspeed min tyranitar, which can be taken down with a LO Wood Hammer (252 HP / 4 Def and lower HP variants), with the option of switching out and in again later to regain the weather advantage =D
Speed creep, I think. Plus, what Tyranitar uses minimum Speed IV's? CurseTar obviously, but it's relatively uncommon.

With Speed like 60 Speed, I don't see why the Mixed Sweeper needs additional EVs in speed, though Abomasnow doesn't really see the need for Physical Attacks, so maybe some Speed EVs can be distributed to outspeed a margin of threats.
 
I'm really wondering why this set sticks upon the problems of the previous analysis of Abomasnow.

As a first statement, I'd ask why all the defensive EV's spreads are full HP. Well, it's a good thing about the special wall. But 252 HP is irrelevant when Abomasnow isn't full SpD. A spread like 152 HP / 106 SpD gives more special bulk in order to counter Starmie Orber.

In fact, I think that Abomasnow needs full Attack, an Adamant nature and Ice Shard in actual Standard metagame. Well, with an Abomasnow like this, you have a Pokémon which can check Flygon (OHKO with SR), Dragonite, Suicune, Starmie, Laggron, Gliscor (peculiarly BP Gliscor which is 2HKO even with the Yache Berry),...

I play with this spread : Adamant ; 152 HP ; 252 attack ; 106 special defense. And I've found it perfect in this metagame. Even HP Fire Suicune can't OHKO it, but when you don't play against eternal, it's not that common.

And please, remove Froslass or Mamoswine from team options. The huge problems of Abomasnow in OU are Scizor and Heatran. And, well, these two Pokémon can't do a lot of things against them (yeah, Mamo can't switch on Heatran). Starmie or Swampert are better teammates, as regards to the types synergy.

The Specs or Special Attacker don't appear to be viable in OU. In fact, I've found that only the first set can be used. The others are just theorymon.
 
I don't see why you would want to sacrifice that much bulk, particularly special bulk on the Leech Seed set just to power up Ice Shard and Wood Hammer. The primary purpose of the Leech seed set is to Leech Seed stall. Wood Hammer deals enough damage without investment against what its meant to target so that pretty much leaves Flygon, Dragonite and Gliscor. Most Gliscor are not the BP Variant but rather the Stall Breaker set. Assuming Ice Shard is being used over Blizzard, the stall breaker set is taken down by Ice Shard and if they try to Roost Stall, takes a Super effective hit from Wood Hammer and is beaten down regardless of investment. So that leaves Flygon and Dragonite; I don't really think that being able to OHKO them both after Stealth Rock is worth the tradeoff of the loss of Special Bulk. Besides, you do a lot to them anyways. The primary purpose of the leech seed set is to Leech Seed stall, and for that Bulk is more important than obtaining OHKOs on the two Dragons. I will give your spread an AC mention though.

Scarf and Mixed attacker have already been covered in this thread as to how their viable. For Specs its hits the opponent hard with Boosted 100% accurate Blizzards as well as far more damage overall; I don't see why it should be taken down

For reference

252/252 Sassy: 384-220-186-221-295-140

152/252/106 Adamant: 359-311-186-198-232-156
 
You also forgot steels is a huge no no for Abomasnow.

A CB Bullet Punch, KOs a Abomasnow. A Gyro ball from Nattorei hurts too.
 

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