Here Comes The Sun!

[Benlisted]

4 Attack Set: This set's designed to destroy weakened opponents at endgame. Double-Edge/Jump Kick/Wild Bolt/Faint Attack. There should be no holes in this set, but 4-attack often ends up failing to KO targets.

Swords Dance: The most powerful set, but the one with the least coverage. The standard moves would probably be Double-Edge and NPow. The last move decides what you simply don't cover. Jump Kick takes out Heatran and Bliss while 2hkoing Natt but means no Skarm or Balloon Shandera/Heatran, Wood Horn beats bulky Waters and Rock and Subbing Erufuun but no means no Skarm, or balloon Shandera/Heatran, Wild Volt can 2hko Skarm, KO bulky waters and gyara, and nail Shandera/Heatran in the air but doesn't really KO any of Mebu's threats like Jump Kick and Wood Horn.

I can certainly vouch for 4 Attacks' effectiveness as a cleaner, revenger and in fact sweeper especially VS more frail offensive teams. I run double STABs, Jump Kick, and Megahorn, though over the latter I am considering Wild Bolt to not be walled by Gengar etc. With SR, LO and Adamant its surprising how many things turn from 2HKOs to OHKOs. In any case, Megahorn allows OHKOs on the Latis, as well as Grass types, which can prove useful.

SD I want to try, but the issue is less losing out on coverage as Normal/Grass/Fight for example is pretty good, but that idk when you would find time to set up. Venu has quite a hard time getting a Growth if playing conservatively - the best target being Burungeru - and even then non-special sets risk being crippled by a burn. Mebu meanwhile has less bulk on both sides and is vulnerable to burn as well as toxic, and fighting moves. I think Wild Bolt as coverage has better utility in the final slot.

I've noticed that a lot of the Sun Sweepers have an amazing movepool. Problems with that is that you have to find something that that one Pokemon excels at.

Venusaur does the Mixed set better do to growths +2 boosts and similar coverage. Growth/Petal Dance/HP Ice(Fire)/Earthquake gives amazing coverage only resisted by bronzong as far as I know. HP fire allows you to OHKO Skarm and Nattorie, whereas Ice takes out the Dragons.

4 Attack set looks very viable, as it offers great coverage. Also the Higher base speed means that it can still function well enough out of sun.

SubSeed should be left to Erufuun/Jumpluff. Erufuun gets priority on it and Jumpluff has that nice base 115 speed to work with (Not to mention if it has Clorophyll.)

Swords Dance looks like it suffers from Moveslot Syndrome. You could drop NPow for Wood Horn/High Jump kick as they provide about the same type coverage.

Slowbro/Slowking work great on Sun Teams. Passing around Toxic allows for some key OHKO's sometimes, and regeneration makes it so that it can come in and wall stuff forever basically.

Has anyone else tried out Rhyperior on Sun teams? With the sun up it isn't OHKO'd by any water attack (Running Bulky EV's) and can 2HKO Crocune. Running Swords Dance turns 2HKO's into OHKO's with Rocks up. I use a dual set up set of Rock Polish/Swords Dance/Earthquake/Knock Down. Knock down puts Skarmory on the ground where it becomes death fodder for a earthquake.

Also SolarZard should almost always hold Lefties. It allows it to survive longer, and with its insane attack power it doesn't need any extra power from other items. Mine generally OHKO's everything anyways.

I definitely agree that 4atks and SD are its most viable sets. However, Cheer Up allows mixed to work if you need something hellishly fast, but like you said it does risk being outclassed.

I think in terms of Slowbro/King I'd go for Bro to be less Pursuit weak. Toxic however really isn't that helpful to offensive Sun at least, since it can typically OHKO almost everything with a Growthed pokemon, but on Sun Stall could be pretty useful.

Rhyperior or Regirock I've used as Fire move absorbers given their resists. Grass being resisted by all Fires and Grasses helps him work well too. A Dual Dance set seems quite interesting of itself, what spread do you run, bulky or offensive? I think if I tried it I may forfeit RP for something to hit levitating ghosts and such, but its preference I suppose.

 

[alphatron]

Overheat/Power swap Tails and Momento Subseed Pluff are what allow me to set up growth with special venusaur so easily. I had a battle last week in which I spammed Overheat on a Dual screen Uxie until my opponent switched to Suicune. I power swapped and switched to Venu, used Growth three times and proceeded to kill the suicune through screens. My opponent spent six turns calm minding to get his sp. atk back to normal. Subseed pluff with momento works when I can no longer subseed and jumpluff is on its last legs. Given Venusaur's natural bulk, I'm not sure how well these two options would work for Mebu instead.

 

[GravityZero]

I can certainly vouch for 4 Attacks' effectiveness as a cleaner, revenger and in fact sweeper especially VS more frail offensive teams. I run double STABs, Jump Kick, and Megahorn, though over the latter I am considering Wild Bolt to not be walled by Gengar etc. With SR, LO and Adamant its surprising how many things turn from 2HKOs to OHKOs. In any case, Megahorn allows OHKOs on the Latis, as well as Grass types, which can prove useful.

SD I want to try, but the issue is less losing out on coverage as Normal/Grass/Fight for example is pretty good, but that idk when you would find time to set up. Venu has quite a hard time getting a Growth if playing conservatively - the best target being Burungeru - and even then non-special sets risk being crippled by a burn. Mebu meanwhile has less bulk on both sides and is vulnerable to burn as well as toxic, and fighting moves. I think Wild Bolt as coverage has better utility in the final slot.

I've decided to dead Wild Bolt, eh, 30% vs Skarm's really not worth it, it doesn't KO anything but Gyarados. Faint Attack's hitting ghosts 33% harder without recoil.

My new 4-Attack from this post:

Four-Attack
Mebukijika-W (Mebukijika-Winter) (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Atk / 72 SDef / 184 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Double-Edge
- Wood Horn / Nature Power
- Jump Kick
- Faint Attack

Beats: Anything it can OHKO. With Wood Horn, Erufuun.
Jobs: Skarmory. Many ballooned Fires. Without Nature Power, bulky Fires and Steels. Without Wood Horn, Erufuun and bulky Waters/Grounds.
NOTE: Also can "defend sun". But bulky Toed needs to have lost some HP and Scarftar's gonna outspeed.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3188528&postcount=120

 

[Byrn Dragonstone]

Rhyperior or Regirock I've used as Fire move absorbers given their resists. Grass being resisted by all Fires and Grasses helps him work well too. A Dual Dance set seems quite interesting of itself, what spread do you run, bulky or offensive? I think if I tried it I may forfeit RP for something to hit levitating ghosts and such, but its preference I suppose.

I run a set of:
Loose Cannon (Rhyperior) (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Solid Rock
EVs: 196 HP / 60 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Rock Polish
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Knock Down


Max Speed allows it to outspeed Timid Jarooda after a Rock Polish. The Attack EV's are there to make it hit harder. A bulkier set of 212 HP/ 80 SpDef / 216 Speed +Lefties allows it to barely be 2HKO'd by a CroCune's unboosted surf under Sun.


The moves allow it to knock all of those pesky levitating/flying Pokemon. For instance say they switch in their Skarmory to wall you. You use knock down and it can't wall you anymore cause Earthquake now hits it for Super Effective damage backed by a base 140 Atk Stat and STAB. Same goes for all of those levitating Poke's. Most of them are weak to ground.

 

[Benlisted]

Overheat/Power swap Tails and Momento Subseed Pluff are what allow me to set up growth with special venusaur so easily. I had a battle last week in which I spammed Overheat on a Dual screen Uxie until my opponent switched to Suicune. I power swapped and switched to Venu, used Growth three times and proceeded to kill the suicune through screens. My opponent spent six turns calm minding to get his sp. atk back to normal. Subseed pluff with momento works when I can no longer subseed and jumpluff is on its last legs. Given Venusaur's natural bulk, I'm not sure how well these two options would work for Mebu instead.

Overheat/Power Swap is proving pretty awesome in a lot of cases I agree. Never used it for setup as of yet, but I can see how it'd work. Cresselia with Screens is currently aiding my poke's setup, and doing pretty amazingly while also walling half the meta to hell and back. A memento Pluff seems pretty awesome as a tool for the same, seeing as Venu only needs one boost to decimate teams, and mebu the same. I think the trouble with Mebu over Saur is that Poison and Burn do actually trouble him, meaning there's less he can setup on safely even with screens or Memento (essentially the same effect).

I've decided to dead Wild Bolt, eh, 30% vs Skarm's really not worth it, it doesn't KO anything but Gyarados. Faint Attack's hitting ghosts 33% harder without recoil.

My new 4-Attack from this post:

I think you may be right, I didn't even notice he got Faint Attack. If he runs it along with Normal/Grass/Fight I'm fairly sure he goes entirely unwalled. Hazard support would be greatly appreciated for him, however.

I run a set of:
Loose Cannon (Rhyperior) (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Solid Rock
EVs: 196 HP / 60 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Rock Polish
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Knock Down

Max Speed allows it to outspeed Timid Jarooda after a Rock Polish. The Attack EV's are there to make it hit harder. A bulkier set of 212 HP/ 80 SpDef / 216 Speed +Lefties allows it to barely be 2HKO'd by a CroCune's unboosted surf under Sun.

The moves allow it to knock all of those pesky levitating/flying Pokemon. For instance say they switch in their Skarmory to wall you. You use knock down and it can't wall you anymore cause Earthquake now hits it for Super Effective damage backed by a base 140 Atk Stat and STAB. Same goes for all of those levitating Poke's. Most of them are weak to ground.

That looks pretty nice as both a wall and possible sweeper, but again I dislike the walling Gengar manages to do to you, with it being in the top used pokes on the tier I play (Wifi). Pretty sure I'd forgo SD for Fire Punch or something, for that reason. If I need a Rock type I'll try it out.

 

[Byrn Dragonstone]

That looks pretty nice as both a wall and possible sweeper, but again I dislike the walling Gengar manages to do to you, with it being in the top used pokes on the tier I play (Wifi). Pretty sure I'd forgo SD for Fire Punch or something, for that reason. If I need a Rock type I'll try it out.

If you Rock polish on the switch you will outspeed and can deal significant damage with Knock Down. If you use knock down on the switch Gengar becomes much easier to take care of due to no longer being immune to earthquake. The boost to attack by SD is much appreciated when you run into bulkier mons.

 

[outofdashdwz]

I'd just like to mention that the Venusaur set in the OP isn't actually legal. Power Whip is an egg move and therefore illegal with Chlorophyll =/ We will rejoice the day someone discovers a female Bulbasaur, but until then...

 

[cco]

Hey all, I suppose the discussion thread for Sun is the best place to put this. I'm working on a Semi-Stall Sunny Day team (defensive triangle, then sweep with Ninetales+Venasaur) and I'm having trouble with picking a few pokes, first, does anybody know a good pokemon to fill in a defensive triangle with Heatran and Vaporeon who benefits both inside and outside of the sun? Second, what's a good pokemon for assassinating opposing weather users?

 

[min min]

Tangrowth, but you miss out on the awesome Regeneration. Plus, if you want a wallish Tangrowth you lose a lot of bulk.

 

[Axa]

Meganium does fairly well as a defensive, since he has solid defenses, screens, recovery, Leech Seed, Leaf Guard, Aromatherapy, and even a phazing move.

As for killing off other weathers... Roserade can beat Aboma with Sludge Bomb and Politoed/Tyranitar with Leaf Storm/Giga Drain, as long as you watch out for Scarfed versions. Scarf Rosie works pretty well though, and she isn't concerned about Sunny Day aside from giving her a strong Fire attack in the form of Weather Ball. In fact you can use opposing weathers to an advantage in certain situations. The opponent's Rain Team has a Heatran? Water-type Weather Ball! Their Sandstorm team is using Gyarados? Rock-type Weather Ball!

 

[cco]

Cool! I'll give Roserade a shot.

 

[ensoriki]

Meganium does fairly well as a defensive, since he has solid defenses, screens, recovery, Leech Seed, Leaf Guard, Aromatherapy, and even a phazing move.

As for killing off other weathers... Roserade can beat Aboma with Sludge Bomb and Politoed/Tyranitar with Leaf Storm/Giga Drain, as long as you watch out for Scarfed versions. Scarf Rosie works pretty well though, and she isn't concerned about Sunny Day aside from giving her a strong Fire attack in the form of Weather Ball. In fact you can use opposing weathers to an advantage in certain situations. The opponent's Rain Team has a Heatran? Water-type Weather Ball! Their Sandstorm team is using Gyarados? Rock-type Weather Ball!

Is roserade actually getting a clean KO with leaf storm? The ability to sleep powder on a switch is nice but still doesn't seem like she'd kill toed or Ty when Politoed is made to take special hits, and Ty's got that def bonus.

 

[alphatron]

I've been in love with evo stone tangela recently. Taking 20% from Timid Darkrai's dark pulse after an amnesia pretty much sealed the deal for me. Taking around 68-88 percent from timid heatran's fire blast (or was it flamethrower?) is lolzy as hell. Not that tangela has any reason to stay in on heatran though.

Meganium's main problems are existing only in the dreamworld tier, where shandera makes her hard to use. Also, she gets laughed at by any substitute pokemon since dragon tail won't phaze once they set it up.

As for a pokemon to take out enemy weather users...I personally don't believe in a team slot being dedicated to that. Luckily scarf roserade is good on it's own, has higher special attack than all of the other weatherball users (poor Raikou), and can save you in a pinch with sleep powder. Go for it.

 

[outofdashdwz]

Hey all, I suppose the discussion thread for Sun is the best place to put this. I'm working on a Semi-Stall Sunny Day team (defensive triangle, then sweep with Ninetales+Venasaur) and I'm having trouble with picking a few pokes, first, does anybody know a good pokemon to fill in a defensive triangle with Heatran and Vaporeon who benefits both inside and outside of the sun? Second, what's a good pokemon for assassinating opposing weather users?

You can use a bulky Shaymin. Sun boosted Growth is nice. The classic FireWaterGrass core is CeleTranPert, so you can try that if you want. The sun doesn't do much for Celebi though, outside of a guaranteed OHKO on Scizors with HP [Fire], which admittedly, is nice. Wobbuffet with a 28/252/228 Bold spread takes 83.3% - 98.1% from CBtar's Crunch and can counter back for the OHKO, although hazards should be cleared (a necessity for a lot of sun sweepers anyway). Obviously, any Choiced Politoed/Abomasnow is hard countered by Wobbuffet. Any Politoed that uses Perish Song is also dead if it doesn't switch out right after. Wobbuffet also helps set up Charizard and Urugamosu too, if you're into that.

 

[TLK]

Been playing a sun team recently to decent success. I've opted for Tangrowth ahead of Venusaur as my chlorophyll sweeper, as it can rip apart teams that don't carry Latios or Latias. I find it's added physical bulk to be really helpful, and it has all round better mix stats.

Blaziken is a beast and pretty much stops T-Tar coming in - I find that getting Blaziken in safely is a problem, but I've changed that by adding a Dual Screen Memento Latias to my team (Max HP, Max Speed). It allows Blaziken the chance to get a guaranteed Swords Dance - and in the sun that's pretty much gg.

As for walls: Gliscor checks so many things it's unreal. It won't help too much against rain teams, but against Sand teams it's probably the thing they hate the most.

I find the main problem I have isn't the fact that Ninetales can't switch in, I think the problem is that he can't switch in loads of times. Being weak to SR really hurts, but finding a spinner that suits my team really hurts too.

I've found Rock Polish Terakion to be handy on Sun teams too, although I've since dropped him. In the sun, his water weakness is negated, allowing him to set up a RP against bulky waters. In the event that you lose initiative to a sand team, RP Terakion takes advantage of the 1.5x SpD rise, and with one RP can beat most common Pokemon on sand teams.

Sun is damn fun to play, and rewarding if you pull it off. It's harder than just throwing Dory, T-Tar, Chomp, Rank, +2 others like sand teams. But it's rewarding that the most maligned weather (hail doesn't count >___>) can be so effective when played right.

 

[Benlisted]

Been playing a sun team recently to decent success. I've opted for Tangrowth ahead of Venusaur as my chlorophyll sweeper, as it can rip apart teams that don't carry Latios or Latias. I find it's added physical bulk to be really helpful, and it has all round better mix stats.

Blaziken is a beast and pretty much stops T-Tar coming in - I find that getting Blaziken in safely is a problem, but I've changed that by adding a Dual Screen Memento Latias to my team (Max HP, Max Speed). It allows Blaziken the chance to get a guaranteed Swords Dance - and in the sun that's pretty much gg.

As for walls: Gliscor checks so many things it's unreal. It won't help too much against rain teams, but against Sand teams it's probably the thing they hate the most.

I find the main problem I have isn't the fact that Ninetales can't switch in, I think the problem is that he can't switch in loads of times. Being weak to SR really hurts, but finding a spinner that suits my team really hurts too.

I've found Rock Polish Terakion to be handy on Sun teams too, although I've since dropped him. In the sun, his water weakness is negated, allowing him to set up a RP against bulky waters. In the event that you lose initiative to a sand team, RP Terakion takes advantage of the 1.5x SpD rise, and with one RP can beat most common Pokemon on sand teams.

Sun is damn fun to play, and rewarding if you pull it off. It's harder than just throwing Dory, T-Tar, Chomp, Rank, +2 others like sand teams. But it's rewarding that the most maligned weather (hail doesn't count >___>) can be so effective when played right.

I've been considering running a Tangrowth on my own Sun team as of late. Bulky Offence pokemon really are the bane of my life, and Venu is just a tad too frail to be able to OHKO them or switch in safely and grab a boost. Dat SpDef though...

Blaziken is such a problem to Sun that I can see how it'd be deadly on it if used right. I rarely try it myself, but your Dual Screens/Memento strat sounds pretty ridiculously good if you can pull it off.

In terms of getting Tales in safely, try slow U-Turn or VoltChangers (or in fact any of them as if you don't see a switch you can not send Tales in) as well as a ChestoRest Tales, like the one in C&C currently. It has in fact got more survivability than any weather setter but Hippowdon, and can still revenge Dory, cripple TTar with WoW and use a filler move.

Sun really is very viable when done right, able to barnstomp most non-weather teams but dedicated stall or bulky offence with a few select pokes, and standing an excellent chance against the other weathers too if you play carefully. It's a shame some people still underestimate it this Gen, though I reckon that works in the Sun player's favour sometimes XD.

 

[MinHawk]

No love for Darmanitan in the sun? =(
Something like this...

Karma-nitan - Sheer Force
Adamant - @Choice Scarf

252 Atk/252 Speed/4 Def
Flare Blitz
Rock Slide
U-Turn
Superpower

This is an absolute monster in the Sun. Adamant STAB Sheer Force Flare Blitz eats things alive, sun or not. Just an idea. It also works wonders in ubers, surprisingly.

 

[alphatron]

Step 1: Set up sun
Step 2: set up with Blaze and sweep. Diliberately attract counters and revengers
Step 3: Switch out Blaziken to something that counters the revenger
Step 4: Healing Wish back into Blaziken (I personally use Shaymin or Doredia)
Step 5: Win the game.

How does tangrowth fair as a sweeper these dyas? I haven't used him ever since the early days. I imagine he would have aharder time setting up (Venusaur makes Conckledurr into setup fodder).

 

[JSND]

Somehow i find my breelom is MVP in the sun.
Breelom gave me wy to beat every weather summoner quite consistenly with the omg im gonna sub first before sporing tactic and have give me sucees

 

[TLK]

Breloom is a fine choice - I would definitely have him on my team, if I could fit him anywhere. The ability to beat Rain Stall almost single handedly and punch a hole in sandstorm teams is invaluable. Although I have Tangrowth for that in my team.

Funnily enough, on my team I don't find opposing weather teams to be the most threatening thing to me. It's dragons that I can't get around. Teams with double dragons are horrible, as there's only so much Gliscor can handle - and my dragon weakness means I need to be really careful with my Heatran until the dragons are gone (Balloon Heatran is an excellent check to every dragon in the sun, as water moves aren't going to KO).

 

[Benlisted]

Funnily enough, on my team I don't find opposing weather teams to be the most threatening thing to me. It's dragons that I can't get around. Teams with double dragons are horrible, as there's only so much Gliscor can handle - and my dragon weakness means I need to be really careful with my Heatran until the dragons are gone (Balloon Heatran is an excellent check to every dragon in the sun, as water moves aren't going to KO).

If played well, Sun does have the versatility to beat any other weather. It pretty much cannot lose against Hail, stands an excellent chance against Rain now SwSw is unusuable without Rain Dancing, and if tailored to can take on TTar excellenty. Hippowdon is more hard to beat, as are teams with both Hippo and TTar.

Dragons are simply a bitch. Mebukijika has earned a place in my heart as a slayer of Latis - even scarfed ones are outsped and OHKOd by Megahorn. Venusaur's +2 Sludge Bomb/Energy Ball does a number on pretty much every dragon out there if you can set up, Ice Beam from Cress hard counters a few of them nicely, and things throwing Toxics and WoWs around like there's no tomorrow assists in taking them down and making them less of a threat as well, so try any of the above. A steel is very nice to take the inevtiable Dragon hits, especially with a fast Flash Fire user to take the Fire attacks aimed at Forry.

 

[Byrn Dragonstone]

Venusaur is able to OHKO all of the Dragons at +2 with Sludge Bomb, bar Multi-Scale Dragonite (Who is just a pain to begin with, and the only reason I would run stealth rock). Also Charizard is able to KO them all with Dragon Pulse, though its speed means that the Lati's and Chomp can outspeed and KO. It handles Dragonite well though.

The teams I have the biggest problem with are the ones that run dual weather Starters (Hippo/Tar, Double Weather). Hippo is also a pain to take down, mostly because I don't want to risk my Venusaur to kill it.

On a side note Timid Venusaur outruns Scarf Lati@s under the sun.

 

[Night Breeder]

Maybe you should mention Dugtrio?
I've used him to great sucess in revenge killing Tyranitar, who would otherwise
mutilate sun teams.

 

[JSND]

Is Chlorojika released ? 100 ish attack and Speed and THAT movepool make me want to use that shit.
Also i wont want to use zard really. Zard isnt THAT great from my experience despite everyone saying its power is awesome etc

AND i wish nientales doesnt suck. GARRRRRHHHH

 

[Benlisted]

Venusaur is able to OHKO all of the Dragons at +2 with Sludge Bomb, bar Multi-Scale Dragonite (Who is just a pain to begin with, and the only reason I would run stealth rock). Also Charizard is able to KO them all with Dragon Pulse, though its speed means that the Lati's and Chomp can outspeed and KO. It handles Dragonite well though.

On a side note Timid Venusaur outruns Scarf Lati@s under the sun.

I'm fairly sure Ground resists Poison, so Chomp etc requires Energy Ball to be taken down, but they all can be yes. ScarfZard is reasonable at spamming Dragon Pulse as Steels are unlikely to be switching into it. Timid Saur can indeed outrun but you lose so much power that you may as well use something faster, or Shiftry with Sucker Punch or something.

Is Chlorojika released ? 100 ish attack and Speed and THAT movepool make me want to use that shit.
Also i wont want to use zard really. Zard isnt THAT great from my experience despite everyone saying its power is awesome etc

Chlorophyll is one of his default abilities... He is fantastic however, so give him a go. Zard really needs other inducers taken out to be good, and in the weather centric meta that often won't be the case. I'd only be willing to use a Scarf or Nitro Charge Zard, purely due to his average speed.