In-Game Tier List Discussion

[Chieliee]

This could be a long post, as I'm posting 3(two and a half) teams of my 3(2 and a half)playthroughs.

Team #1(White)

Jalorda: Made him a Seeder/Toxic/Protect/Giga Drain set. I very much regret that. Was very useful in E4 though. Upper Mid Tier

Doryuuzu: Ran a SD/Earthquake/Rock Slide/X-scissor set. Not much to say, this thing wrecks shit. Seriously. Top Tier

Shanderaa: Quite hard to train in the beginning, but when it reached its final evolution, it became my special powerhouse(next to Dory) I believe i ran: Psychic/Overheat/Shadow Ball/Energy Ball High Tier

Abagoura: okay pokemon, although its movepool lacks coverage. With Shell break he becomes better, but still not very good. Ended up using him as an HM slave(>_>) Dive/Waterfall/Surf/Rock Slide: Mid Tier

Kojondo: Frail, but a good sweeper. I ran Hi Jump Kick/U-Turn/Rock Slide/Drain Punch: Mid High Tier

Wargle: A pain in the ass to train, since it is basicly worthless. Evolved only after E4, but then it became good. VERY good(not as good as Dory) It is also very bulky, which I like. I ran Strength/Fly/Superpower/U-Turn Mid High Tier


Team#2(Black)

Daikenki: I had to choose between Bad coverage, reliable moves, or Good coverage, unreliable moves. I chose the latter. Blizzard/Megahorn missed at the worst times. Still, it is good.Ran Surf/Blizzard/Megahorn/Strength : High tier

Shinpora: Caught one with Magic Guard. Great poke, although it needs TM's for coverage(which actually doesnt really matter) Ran Psychic/Air Slash/Cosmic Power/Roost. I was planning on doing the Fighting E4 with this, but the first Stone Edge was a crit.... Top Tier

Zuruzukin: Great bulk and power, although the latter one faded out a bit in the end. I ran Hi Jump Kick/Crunch/Rock Slide/Dig. <- = GREAT coverage. High Tier

Morobareru: this was my stallish poke. I ran Mega Drain/Toxic/Synthesis/Protect. worked okay, but got behind in levels too often: Mid Low Tier

Goruugo. This think is bulky and powerful. Great as a damager, so after that Denchura can come in I ran Earthquake/Fly/Heavy Bomber/DynamicPunch(Even though I had no NoGuard) Mid Tier

Denchura: This thing is the perfect late-game sweeper.(it also has great coverage against the Plasma Grunts) I ran Thunderbolt/Volt Change/Signal Beam(I stopped before it had Bug Buzz) and Sucker Punch. Mid High Tier


Team#3(Black)(only level 21-24)

Pignite: This thing is good in the beginning, especially after it learns Nitro Charge: Top Tier(until now)

Dokkora: Good, but I overestimated him. he doesnt do much with his attacks, even though he has a neutral nature. Mid High Tier

Churine: I found out that this thing has a Modest nature and 31 IV's in Sp.Atk.... Oh yeah. Top Tier

Dangoro(stopped using him at level 18) is good, but I realized i didnt plan a Flyer in my team, so i'm gonna use Aakeosu instead. Mid High Tier

(Planned: Aakeosu, Shubarugo, Nattorei)

Edit: Mid High Tier=Upper Mid Tier

 

[Raikaria]

Part of the effect on an in-game teir list is avaliabilty. Wargle is avaliable right at the end game, which automatically puts him near the bottom, as by that point, you've almost certainly got a high level team already, and would have to grind Wargle all the way. Same with Kojondo. It's only avaliable just before the 7th Gym.

The fact that these pokemon evolve really late dosent help their cases either. Bear in mind these teir lists are also based on speed and ease of the game. That's who Cheruine is High Teir, and Monmen is low. Why stall when you can just outright sweep?

 

[Chieliee]

Part of the effect on an in-game teir list is avaliabilty. Wargle is avaliable right at the end game, which automatically puts him near the bottom, as by that point, you've almost certainly got a high level team already, and would have to grind Wargle all the way. Same with Kojondo. It's only avaliable just before the 7th Gym.

The fact that these pokemon evolve really late dosent help their cases either. Bear in mind these teir lists are also based on speed and ease of the game. That's who Cheruine is High Teir, and Monmen is low. Why stall when you can just outright sweep?

But I felt the pure power of Wargle/Kojondo at the end just makes up for it. Oh, and I love your signature...

 

[TM13IceBeam]

Dokkora being bad = wut the hell. If you are not planning to use the Deki brothers, you SHOULD use Dokkora, since it has Fighting+Rock coverage earlygame, which makes it a prime choice against gym 3, which special attackers struggle against(read:Insect Opposition).

Churine I assume is obtained from the trade in Shippou in which you give the dude Monmen right?

Also uh if you say that the pure power of Wargle/Kojondo at the end just makes up for it, Ulgamoth and Sazandora should be god tier.

 

[Chieliee]

Dokkora being bad = wut the hell. If you are not planning to use the Deki brothers, you SHOULD use Dokkora, since it has Fighting+Rock coverage earlygame, which makes it a prime choice against gym 3, which special attackers struggle against(read:Insect Opposition).

Churine I assume is obtained from the trade in Shippou in which you give the dude Monmen right?

I did not say it was bad, I just overestimated him. He is probably the weakest member of my team now, that was what I was trying to say. And yes, I traded the Churine, who is called 'Spreet', and I can't change the nickname(without the use of PokeGen)......

 

[Tacket]

This was really help for when it comes out in America 3/6/11

I will have Oshawott, Darmanitan's pre evolution, Sandile, Zurrugu, Desumasu, and Bachura.

I will be raising many Pokemon post game though like Kamatana and Pansear.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

I did not say it was bad, I just overestimated him. He is probably the weakest member of my team now, that was what I was trying to say. And yes, I traded the Churine, who is called 'Spreet', and I can't change the nickname(without the use of PokeGen)......

Wut.

Either that or my Lonely Encourage Dokketosu is just too broken, even though for some reason I missed out on Rock Smash's TM(wut).

Also @Tacket, don't bother training Komatana/Pansear in post-game until you are completely done, I mean, that IS the reason why Kyurem/Ulgamoth exists right...?

Meh anyway time to give another analysis of my party so far, I got to the League already. Now grinding in Victory Road.

Enbuoh
Level 42
Hasty nature(+Spd, -Def)
Moveset: Boiling Water/Heat Stamp/Assurance/Brick Break

I finally found out from Bulbapedia that Enbuoh only has Arm Thrust for Fighting STAB in his level-up movepool. Fuck. This bastard dies too easily, is ridiculously slow(even with hasty), etc. Then I found out that his base speed is THE SAME AS CYNDAQUIL'S. Double fuck.

Upper Mid at most.

Ononokusu
Level 48
Quirky Nature(+Shit, -Crap)
Rivalry
Moveset: DD/SD/Slash/Dragon Claw(or in other words, completely random moveset)

Meh-ish moveset but dragons are cool and all. Kibago is available after the 6th gym and thanks to B/W's exp system it's no longer that painful to train Kibago. He replaced Murando, who's usefulness diminished towards the end. >_> Still a major powerhouse and due to wreck some shit in E4.

Upper Mid. If only he came at a time where the next 2 gyms are not only the last gyms, but also specialise in the types he is weak against...

Hahakomori
Level 46
Brave Nature(+Atk, -Spd)
Chlorophyll
Moveset: SD/Shadow Claw/X-Scissor/Leaf Blade

Excellent type coverage and Razor Leaf early on just pwns almost everything. After gym 3 he gets Struggle Bug, which allows your team to wall special attacks more efficiently. Kurumayu was a pain, but Hahakomori is definitely worth it.

Top tier.

Doryuzu(or as it is called now, Excadrill)
Level 41
Bold Nature(+Def, -Atk)
Sand Rush
Moveset: Hone Claws/EQ/X-Scissor/Slash

As for why I had Hone Claws, I believe Dory learns SD around Level 42, so I replaced Metal Claw for X-Scissor(fuck this SD TM only available post-E4). A pain to train though.

Mid Tier. motherfucker dies to everything pre-evolution and only survives post-evo thanks to steel.

Zeburaika
Level 39
Modest nature(+SpA, -Atk)
Lightningrod
Moveset: Volt Change/Nitro Charge/Shock Wave/Discharge

I just found out this bastard even with Modest has better attack than special attack. WTH. Like Doryuzu a pain to train, except that he doesn't have improved durability post-evo. Motherfucker. Mid Tier only for Volt Change damnit

Dotekkosu
Level 40
Lonely nature(+Atk, -Def)
Encourage
Moveset: DynamicPwn/Low Kick(yes i still have it wut)/Rock Slide/Bulk Up

If you remember my rants in the Encourage thread on how Encourage boosted DynamicPunch, this was the dude used to test it. On-topic, this guy just pwns shit like mad. I'm not training it right now since I'm waiting for a trade to evolve this dude. He's just awesome earlygame, midgame, endgame. Definite must-have tool.

Top tier.

Cobalon
Level 45
Quiet nature(+SpA, -Spe)
Moveset: Cheer Up, Vengeance, Iron Head, Sacred Sword

Only served to make Hachiku and Iris easier. Actually, Iris could've won if she had used Ononokusu to p-haze me at the last minute instead of Slash spamming. Derp moment.

Mid Tier, if only for the fact that he makes gym 7/8 easy mode.

Also, randomness
Birijion
Level 42
Brave nature(+Atk, -Spd)
Moveset: whatever he starts with

I checked with Serebii's calculator. Turns out this bastard has 31 IVs in Defense and Special Defense. Should I use him?

 

[WingedKnight]

OK, finally finished a playthrough of White:

Serperior: Pretty awesome Pokemon. The lack of movepool options is a bit of a letdown, but his speed and bulk make him more than worthwhile. You can use him for support/seeding, or use Growth/Coil Up. Plenty of good Grass moves, makes good use of Return (Raimon City mart), like anyone I suppose. He has his issues, with certain gyms and whatnot, but his utility makes up for it. High or Upper-Mid Tier

Simipour: Useful against first gym, slows down a bit after that, but then gets handy again when he learns Boiling Water. That said, I ended up swapping him out because he simply wasn't cutting it overall. Useful early game I suppose. Mid Tier

Excadrill: Available early, and the payoff is amazing! As lots of people have mentioned, he has issues before he gets Dig, but once he does he just does not stop. Serious powerhouse, even if a little slow. Top Tier

Darmanitan: Holy hell. Hustle as Darumaka is the only real drawback. Pretty fast, great Attack, and access to lots of great moves. One of the best Pokemon in the game in my opinion. Top Tier

Archeops: He didn't end up on my final team, but that was only because of personal preference (I swapped him out for Braviary). Once he gets Acrobat, he plows through EVERYTHING. Great coverage, excellent stats, just watch for that ability, it's the only thing that keeps him out of Top in my eyes. High Tier

Scrafty: GREAT pokemon. Overconfidence is great for longer battles, and this guy destroys the Elite Four. Bulky, gets more powerful as the match progresses, and good movepool to. Top or High Tier

Galvantula: Everyone's said it, I'll say it again. Solid mon that comes right when you need it. Joltik is a little tough to raise, but once you evolve him and get your hands on Thunder there's no stopping him. High Tier

Jellicent: Solid Water type, probably the best non-Samurott option (other than maybe Carracosta). Good bulk, useful STABs. Surf isn't too important in this game, but he's pretty solid overall. Upper Mid Tier

Braviary: I used Braviary out of favoritism, no doubt, and he was a solid Pokemon. As much as I am a fan, though, I admit he is difficult to justify. Rufflet can be found right before the last gym, and if you take the time to raise him he is a SERIOUS powerhouse, but with the late appearance and the slow growth rate it's not recommended unless you want him badly for E4/Postgame. Low Tier

 

[Colonel M]

Okay, time for a long awaited bump.

First off, to add to the premise of the list, I think it's okay to assume that, barring Zorua and Zoroark, recruitment cost should be nullified. It can work both ways. On one hand, it is inefficient to get, say Cobalon, but it also makes it difficult to tier at the same time. If anyone wants to fight that, feel free too as I am indifferent with that. Secondly, time to go over some things:

Mole down a tier

Let's face it. Yes, the Pokemon is obviously good, but it comes at an extreme cost for the player. If the player decides to catch Mole early, then we have to deal with Fury Swipes being its strongest attack, which isn't there until Level 12. Furthermore, Dig is at Level 19. That's a long ways away. Not much it can do to improve its offense nor its defense, so it's very stagnant to downright bad until it gets to Level 19.

The next time that you can catch it is right after the 5th Gym. That's pretty late. The max level it comes at is 27, which means that (assuming you hold off on its evolution), Rock Slide comes at Level 29 and Earthquake at 33. That's at least early enough assuming you catch a 27 Mole. But still, that's past the halfway point. Pretty meh if you ask me.

It can make up by pounding on the 4th gym (if you got it trained), the 6th-8th Gym and most of the Elite 4 at least.

Legendary Trio Down

Yeah I guess I overrated them a little bit. Mid is fine for Cobalon. Maybe Birijion. Terakion should probably be Low. Not much more to add really.

Monmen Up

But not by a whole lot. The biggest thing is Mischievous Heart Stun Spore going for it. It is a utility niche, but paralysis is damn helpful. I'm looking at the 4th gym in particular.

Feel free to add in your own comments. I won't make changes just yet.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

Yeah, Birijion should move down one tier, Terrakion should be in bottom. Cobalon is just fine where he is.

Also for the 4th gym Shimama works just fine, mine was Level 19 and it still performed relatively well against Kamitsure.

 

[DetroitLolcat]

Shikijika needs to be Upper Mid. It gets Jump Kick (100 Base Power Physical Fighting :D) early, is found midway into the game, evolves ok, and gets great moves. Cheer Up lets it wreck everything with Jump Kick and Energy Ball until you get Wood Horn. Wood Horn is godly, as it hits like a truck and heals you, and Take Down is for insane STAB. Its only drawback is average power and a medium evolution.

 

[Phi]

I still really think Monmen is being underrated here, since Mischevious Heart Stun Spore and Leech Seed are the reason my run through black was probably my most underleveled ever. Basically the main thing, asides from the damage formula, giving higher level pokemon an advantage over yours is speed, and with Stun Spore basically guaranteeing you can neuter that, it basically makes Monmen a team player with surprising survivability who in no way is harmed by evolution into Erufuun since he has all the moves he needs before evolution. Definitely not the best player on my team, but an essential one in reducing the amount of grinding I'd otherwise do.

 

[Sceats]

I still really think Monmen is being underrated here, since Mischevious Heart Stun Spore and Leech Seed are the reason my run through black was probably my most underleveled ever. Basically the main thing, asides from the damage formula, giving higher level pokemon an advantage over yours is speed, and with Stun Spore basically guaranteeing you can neuter that, it basically makes Monmen a team player with surprising survivability who in no way is harmed by evolution into Erufuun since he has all the moves he needs before evolution. Definitely not the best player on my team, but an essential one in reducing the amount of grinding I'd otherwise do.

The process of using leechseed to knock stuff out is far too tedious and time consuming to be rated high on a system based on how quickly and easily you can finish battles. That being said, he does not belong in low but should move up to lower mid. Just because its slow doesn't mean its not viable.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

Monmen isn't really worth it unless you are somehow a player of stall. If you need a grass type that badly Hahakomori is better.

 

[Ondore]

I finally found out from Bulbapedia that Enbuoh only has Arm Thrust for Fighting STAB in his level-up movepool. Fuck.

There's 3 physical Fighting TMs in this game (Rock Smash, Leg Sweep/Ankle Kick/whatever, and Brick Break) and there's no opportunity cost for using them to replace Arm Thrust. Plus, Arm Thrust screws over Sturdy users ingame.

 

[Phi]

The process of using leechseed to knock stuff out is far too tedious and time consuming to be rated high on a system based on how quickly and easily you can finish battles. That being said, he does not belong in low but should move up to lower mid. Just because its slow doesn't mean its not viable.

Monmen isn't really worth it unless you are somehow a player of stall. If you need a grass type that badly Hahakomori is better.

It's like you guys are only reading what you want in that post. Yes, Monmen is a top tier in game staller in between his status move and giga drain (about the only move he has that will do damage), but my point is that he's really a unique in-game utility pokemon that promotes finishing the game quickly by reliably lowering the speed of anything and everything you come across. That's something no other grass type, heck, almost nothing else in the game can do. I was able to beat the e4 and all the associated endgame trainers a good 5-15 levels below their pokemon simply because I had an Erufuun who could come in on anything, paralyze it, and then allow anything else on my team to get in a STAB super-effective hit on their Pokemon. Saying he's just a staller is looking at base statistics alone and assuming that Erufuun can only be a good pokemon if he can beat the game on his own. My point is he's a highly competitive and fairly unique Pokemon that promotes everything this discussion is talking about simply through Mischevious Heart Stun Spore, which, may I add, works just as well when you catch him as later in the game. Add in that, unlike Thunder Wave, NOTHING lacking Limber is immune to Stun Spore, you've got a monster who can turn anything on your opponent's team into salad for your own. This doesn't mean I spent all game stalling with Erufuun, this means I beat it pretty damn quickly because stuff like Hihidaruma and Denchura were waiting in the wings to destroy stuff instantly with their STABs.

 

[Raikaria]

Wut.

Either that or my Lonely Encourage Dokketosu is just too broken, even though for some reason I missed out on Rock Smash's TM(wut).

Also @Tacket, don't bother training Komatana/Pansear in post-game until you are completely done, I mean, that IS the reason why Kyurem/Ulgamoth exists right...?

Meh anyway time to give another analysis of my party so far, I got to the League already. Now grinding in Victory Road.

Enbuoh
Level 42
Hasty nature(+Spd, -Def)
Moveset: Boiling Water/Heat Stamp/Assurance/Brick Break

I finally found out from Bulbapedia that Enbuoh only has Arm Thrust for Fighting STAB in his level-up movepool. Fuck. This bastard dies too easily, is ridiculously slow(even with hasty), etc. Then I found out that his base speed is THE SAME AS CYNDAQUIL'S. Double fuck.

Upper Mid at most.

Enboah:
Arm Thrust is not exactly a bad move. It will hit for at least the equivilent of 75 BP, and may go all the way up to 187.5 BP. That's pretty good for an earlygame move.

If you want more consistancy, by the time you need more power, you get TM Brick Break at Sekka City.

Nitro Charge solves Emboah's Speed issues rather well, and is rather powerful for the stage you get it. His sheer brute attacking stats, as well as bulk, make up for the somewhat low BP of his moves.

Emboar also destroys the 2nd and 3rd Gyms. As well as the 7th. He sure holds his own a lot better than the other two starters as well, certainly the best of the three in-game. Snivy in-game is Chikorita teir [It even has the gyms working against it like Chikorita], and Oshawott is easily the worst Water Starter.

Anyway, I'm still of the opinion Gear should be bumped up at least 1 teir.

Sure, he comes a little late in the game [After Gym 5], but he's at a decent level, has good coverage [Electric and Steel moves], and makes the 6th, 7th, and 8th Gyms easymode. As well as 3 members of the E4.

Now THAT is not low Teir.

He's also quite bulky, and hits quite hard. Body Purge and Charge Beam lets him destroy mid-game, and once you get Gear Change... well, look at this set and tell me it won't obliterate in-game:

-Gear Change
-Charge Beam
- Flash Cannon
- Gear Saucer

Combined with Gigigigear's bulk, and Steel typing. Yeah. Not Low Teir. Not at all. Should be Mid Teir at least.

He's doubtlessly FAR better than Reguree and Nattorei :/

 

[TM13IceBeam]

Add in that, unlike Thunder Wave, NOTHING lacking Limber is immune to Stun Spore, you've got a monster who can turn anything on your opponent's team into salad for your own.

Herbivorous Pokemon are immune to Stun Spore, and the lack of Grounds in E4 means that TWave is better.

Also Arm Thrust sucks btw. I had to trek back to Sekka to get the Brick Break TM. >_>

 

[KokoaKiwi]

Made some Starter-only runs for the heck of it.

I'm gonna agree with Serperior for High Tier.
Growth [later became Coil] / Leaf Blade / Return / Giga Drain has somewhat bad coverage, but hits really hard from both sides and heals itself, and has defeses to survive even the 7th gym. Then again, stuff like Shandera in the pokémon league are a royal pain to take down as you need a lot of boosts to ohko or hope Fire Blast doesnt murder back.
All in all, I absolutely adore this thing. My starter of choice.

Enbuoh on the other hand...ugh. I plain had to restart my game after the sixth gym because I absolutely hated to train that thing. Dies to pokemon with move and is really slow. Do not want. Mid-tier at most.
(I used Arm Thrust, Nitro Charge, Take Down and Boil Over).

Daikenki is a mixed bag. Hits hard, can go special or physical, has priority, great movepool, and an amazing type. The only thing that prevents him beign god tier is his low speed and special defense, since there's some special attackers that hit quite hard.
My moveset was Surf / Aqua Jet / X-Scissor / Revenge (switched to Blizzard for a certain battle in the Pokemon League.)
Definitely a Top-Tier.

 

[breh]

Why does everybody hate Emboar so much? people use such retarded movesets it's not even funny, for god's sake.

Heat Stamp/Brick Break/Nitro Charge is all you need (with a filler like Wild Bolt or Head Smash in the last slot). Brick Break hits hard and Nitro Charge allows you to finish off weak pokes and get something out of it (see: charge beam). Heat Stamp usually hits hard too.

Why is Kurumiru still as low as it is? It has ridiculously good moves in a game where there are like... no steel types. Barring Ulgamoth there are no important fire types too.. X-Scissor, Leaf Blade, and Swords Dance are amazing and it sweeps the Elite Four.

 

[KokoaKiwi]

Heat Stamp/Brick Break/Nitro Charge is all you need (with a filler like Wild Bolt or Head Smash in the last slot). Brick Break hits hard and Nitro Charge allows you to finish off weak pokes and get something out of it (see: charge beam). Heat Stamp usually hits hard too

I know I derped with Heat Stamp. Nitro Charge isnt THAT good, tbh, and as for brick break...didnt get that far in the game. No offense, but emboar is the worst starter I've used since Pikachu in yellow.

 

[breh]

I know I derped with Heat Stamp. Nitro Charge isnt THAT good, tbh, and as for brick break...didnt get that far in the game. No offense, but emboar is the worst starter I've used since Pikachu in yellow.

TBH that's very excessive. You have clearly never played with Chikorita at all, have you?

And Nitro Charge is truly a big part of its power. You use it at the start of a battle and then sweep from there. Hell, with a starter only run, this should be ridiculously easy (also how the fuck do you still have Take Down and why the fuck do you have Boiling Water)?

Obviously, the lack of Heat Stamp is also a cause of your issue... if one STAB's power is so ridiculously small, you can expect adverse affects.

 

[Jaroda]

Kibago and Hiyappu need to be flipped. I used both and Hiyappu, while useful for the first gym, fails hard afterwards. He's far too weak unevolved when the rest of your team are in their second stage, and he doesn't learn moves after he evolves. Besides, you don't face a gym where you have a type advantage until Ground, which is the 5th. He's a pain that is too weak. Low tier.Kibago on the other hand comes at a time where you'll be wanting to replace a prior physical attacker like Yorterri or something. Kibago is easy to train and can easily help you sweep the later Gyms and E4 with a level handicap thanks to Dragon Dance. With barely any steels in your way, Dragon Claw and eventually Outrage are all you'll ever need. PLUS, and people forget this, but he learns False Swipe. Don't try and tell me that isn't helpful in game. High tier.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

STAB Heat Stamp is as strong as Giga Impact, and it doesn't need recharge at all.

Boiling Water is there for obvious coverage, although I question lack of Grass Knot.

I use Ononokusu and all I can say is that he is a freaking god. Has the bulk to eat something and p-haze with Dragon Tail, or simply sweep with Dragon Dance. Seriously. Kibago should be way higher.

Hiyappu gets HMs but since HMs are like, so UNIMPORTANT ingame for some reason you can put Hiyappu down to where his brothers are.

 

[Jaroda]

You don't get Surf until after the 5th Gym if I remember correctly. Totally useless WAY before that. Not to mention you don't even need a water pokemon in this game outside of like one route that require Surf to traverse rivers. There's only one Gym weak to water and that's the 5th. If you picked Snivy or Oshawott you're set.