Charizard

Sorry my browser is acting a little weird my coment to above quote.

Although that is some what true typhlosion also needs spin suport, and not only that if it dose not then it won't even be able to use eruption properly. Unlike charizard who could hit just as hard. Also typhlosion needs to switch into a fire move to be usefull, and it only works with fire moves.
Also although charizards flying type does give him 4x to sr ( I know its a big deal) but fighting is even more commen then ever and it hits it super too.
 
With the new metagame and the rise of sun teams when v-generate is out, Charizard is going to be great.
are u saying charizared gets v generate? cuz he doesnt :nerd:

and ive been trying to use charizard as a scarfer(in gen 4) and he sucks hard (or most likely i do :P) i have little hope for him...other then that i plain just dont like charizard....
 
Wow, with the sun charizard has been absolutely amazing for me, destroying stall teams and doing awesome things like easily 2hkoing max hp/spdef suicune, hippowdon and even blissey aswell as having focus blast ready for tyranitar. Very underated IMO.
 
are u saying charizared gets v generate? cuz he doesnt :nerd:

and ive been trying to use charizard as a scarfer(in gen 4) and he sucks hard (or most likely i do :P) i have little hope for him...other then that i plain just dont like charizard....
I'm guessing he meant sun teams will be more common to abuse V-generate Victini, and in turn other sun sweepers, like Charizard, will be used more often.
 
Why no Overheat on the Sunny Day Specs set? Come in, mangle something beyond recognition, leave. Should be an option, atleast.
 
a option, that is all it is. you dont wanna switch charizard all the time when the risk of SR being set on your field is present. besides overheat means charizard is easy to deal with after 2 uses and fire blast is packing enough power to ohko more then half of the metagame already.
 
a option, that is all it is. you dont wanna switch charizard all the time when the risk of SR being set on your field is present. besides overheat means charizard is easy to deal with after 2 uses and fire blast is packing enough power to ohko more then half of the metagame already.
Overheat is definitely not an option with Specs as it loses the ability to 2HKO Blissey. Wouldn't advise it on Scarf either since to sweep cleanly through a weakened team you don't want your SpA dropping like a stone. In general the best thing about it is the better accuracy than FB, but the drop in power after one use is huge and makes it an inferior option imo.
 
Overheat is definitely not an option with Specs as it loses the ability to 2HKO Blissey. Wouldn't advise it on Scarf either since to sweep cleanly through a weakened team you don't want your SpA dropping like a stone. In general the best thing about it is the better accuracy than FB, but the drop in power after one use is huge and makes it an inferior option imo.
A bit off topic, but Overheat is still better on things like FF Scarf Chandelure, right?
 
A bit off topic, but Overheat is still better on things like FF Scarf Chandelure, right?
I personally wouldn't advocate using Scarf FF Chandelure (horribly Pursuit weak), but yeah on things who expect to be walled and forced out regularly like Chandy and Tran for instance it's a good choice for the accuracy, especially as the added power actually makes a difference for them, whereas Zard simply overkills stuff more.
 
I personally wouldn't advocate using Scarf FF Chandelure (horribly Pursuit weak), but yeah on things who expect to be walled and forced out regularly like Chandy and Tran for instance it's a good choice for the accuracy, especially as the added power actually makes a difference for them, whereas Zard simply overkills stuff more.
Well, I use it on Random Matchup, so I can't use Tag. It used to be Specs instead of Scarf, but revenging other Chandelures is worth it.
 
Overheat is definitely not an option with Specs as it loses the ability to 2HKO Blissey. Wouldn't advise it on Scarf either since to sweep cleanly through a weakened team you don't want your SpA dropping like a stone. In general the best thing about it is the better accuracy than FB, but the drop in power after one use is huge and makes it an inferior option imo.

it IS a inferior option, all i said is that it was a option aka you can use if you want. i never said it was superior and even mentioned how you are better off with fire blast.
 
it IS a inferior option, all i said is that it was a option aka you can use if you want. i never said it was superior and even mentioned how you are better off with fire blast.
I did nothing to refute your points, I only expanded on them with regards to some sets in particular and the accuracy point. Apologies if you thought I was trying to have a go, I was simply giving my thoughts on the issue, probably should've quoted the post above yours I guess.

Anyway, I predict a fall in the already low Zard usage now Victini has arrived with the absurdly deadly V-Create.
 
been using this set on smogon's server and seen descent results:
Ability:Solar Power
Nature:timid
EVs:72 Attack/186 Sp Attack/252 Speed
Item:leftovers
~Fire Blast
~Earthquake
~sunny day
~solar beam

its kinda gimmicky but it works for the suprise factor. the idea is switch in zard after setting up perma-sun, if the opponent doesn't have another weather user then you begin to sweep. If they do you use sunny day as they switch and laugh in their face. solar beam does a nice chunk to politoad and ttar in the sun. the ev's are copied from the OP, enough atk to OHKO heatran always, and the rest into spc and speed.

comments?
 
been using this set on smogon's server and seen descent results:
Ability:Solar Power
Nature:timid
EVs:72 Attack/186 Sp Attack/252 Speed
Item:leftovers
~Fire Blast
~Earthquake
~sunny day
~solar beam

its kinda gimmicky but it works for the suprise factor. the idea is switch in zard after setting up perma-sun, if the opponent doesn't have another weather user then you begin to sweep. If they do you use sunny day as they switch and laugh in their face. solar beam does a nice chunk to politoad and ttar in the sun. the ev's are copied from the OP, enough atk to OHKO heatran always, and the rest into spc and speed.

comments?
Does Timid unboosted Earthquake KO Heatran? That seems like it'd be doing laughable damage to anything not 4x weak also.

Otherwise, setting up another Sunny Day when they go to their weather-changer is nice if you can predict it. Like running Hail on Tentacruel but with more advantages for you (and less bulk than Tentacruel!).
 
Why wouldn't you just make it Mild or something and reallocate to 252sp atk/252 speed? It's not like a solar power charizard is going to be taking a hit anyways.

Either way, Zard learns focus blast and I'm sure that or HP fight would knock heatran on its ass. It REALLY loves air slash as well, from my experience. It makes a nice "I don't know what they are going to switch in" move. Just my preference, though.

I'd honestly prefer a scarf or specs on this guy, I'm sure that + sun + solar power is absolutely horrendous.
 
Speczard destroys everything in its path with fire blast aside from multiscale dragonite i think there are no safe switch ins
Unless you run a very bulky DNite, it's getting 2HKOd through MultiScale with Specs. Aside from things immune to Fire and weather changers to steal its power, there are literally no safe switches into Timid Specs Zard unless you go with a max SpD DNite or Kingdra or something, which isn't a good idea with regards to the rest of the meta. At least ones that can switch in more than once, anyway, since a range of things could outspeed and threaten.

For reference, yeah he does 2HKO standard Kingdra and Blissey (or Chansey).
 
Charizard @ Salac Berry
170 HP / 170 Atk / 170 SpD
Adamant Nature
-Belly Drum
-Substitute
-Fire Punch
-Earthquake

Combining two sets on one Pokemon can make the Pokemon even tougher than before. The strategy for this set is to use Belly Drum to maximize Attack, then use a substitute to protect yourself for the next turn while still doing an attack. From there, Fire Punch is a STAB move, and Earthquake is for OHKOing types that switch into it, like Rock and Electric.
 
Charizard @ Salac Berry
170 HP / 170 Atk / 170 SpD
Adamant Nature
-Belly Drum
-Substitute
-Fire Punch
-Earthquake

Combining two sets on one Pokemon can make the Pokemon even tougher than before. The strategy for this set is to use Belly Drum to maximize Attack, then use a substitute to protect yourself for the next turn while still doing an attack. From there, Fire Punch is a STAB move, and Earthquake is for OHKOing types that switch into it, like Rock and Electric.
How is this in any way different from the Bellyzard set in the OP. Also, Salac berry is not released yet. So you cant use this set in standard OU. Your EV's are screwed up as well. What's the point of those 170 HP ev's anyways? Just use the standard 252/252 spread.
 
Everyone knows Bellyzard. The problem is that with all this priority running around, SR taking 50% of your health upon entry unless spun away. The multitude of common scarfers and the fact that you cannot get Salac berry in BW yet, means that Bellyzard is even more underwhelming than it was in DP. Also, you'd be better off going for a simple spread of 252 Atk / 252 Spe Jolly nature, otherwise all the scarfed/+1 base 100s will laugh at you.

Edit: Ninja'd -__-
 
I know there are others, but Saur does have great synergy with both Char and Ninetales. Clorophyll and Synthesis abuse are made easier by Ninetales, it has a better offensive typing than most of the faster Clorophyll users (like Leafeon) and better stats than the others (Jumpluff).

Additionally, it also has the ability to take Water and Electric type moves aimed at Charizard and shrug them off, whereas Charizard can take Fire type moves aimed at Venusaur. Yeah, other Grass types can boast this too, but few can boast all of Venusaur's advantages at the same time. Vileplume, Victreebel, Sunflora, Bellossom, Shiftry and Tropius are all slower and don't hit nearly as hard. Ludicolo and Cacturne want to stay out of the sun, Shiftry has worse defensive typing (x4 Bug weakness). Leafeon has worse typing and a worse physical STAB move (Power Whip > Leaf Blade), Jumpluff has horrid stats, etc.

Basically, yes, Venusaur is just one among many Drizzletoed counters, but it is arguably one of the best ones and it has fantastic synergy with Charizard.
Not saying that Venusaur isn't great, but.. what about Sawsbuck? It's a faster Chlorophyll user than 'Saur, has a good STAB in Horn Leech, has Nature Power (turns to Earthquake), and better Attack along with Swords Dance. His Defenses are bad, though. I know you said "one among many", but you didn't mention Sawsbuck anywhere in the post (although I've been trying to get my hands on a DW Leafeon so I can test it, it might be better but I do know about its coverage issues).

Edit: NOOOO. I need to not post after staying up all night.. I did exactly what I hate: replying to a first-page post as if it were a recent post. Oh well, excuse my stupidity but I don't want to delete this post.
 
How could you have missed this set? It is the best ever (I've actually used it on a gimmick team in LU (kinda like Smogon's RU):

Charizard @ Lefties
252 HP 128 Def 128 SpD Bold
-Toxic
-Sub
-Roost
-Seismic Toss

Oh yeah, works like a charm.
 

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