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Moody
- Thread starter Wichu
- Start date
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Whatever it is we need to ban this thing because it is just THAT easy to stall for boosts. +2/-1 every turn means that in the long run the Inconsistent guy wins, so in order to win you need to beat it fast, except that Protect/Sub can be learnt by just about EVERYTHING, and you can stall for a full 32 turns with it. Even with subbreaking moves(Bullet Seed and friends) if the opponent gets a defense/evasion boost, GG.
The only way I can see this thing being controlled is that if some idiot actually got a multi-hit move that never misses. >_>
The only way I can see this thing being controlled is that if some idiot actually got a multi-hit move that never misses. >_>
I have seriously swept ubers teams consistently 6-0 with ssist power Smeargle. That should not be happening. This is a problem and it should be banned. Also, it isn't the evasion boost that is king, especially in Ubers. It's the speed. If you get +2, you can alternate sub + protect forever, and then just sweep, unless you get like +6 accuracy and defenses
The reason that I didn't want to completely say that it belongs under the evasion clause is because the evasion clause does NOT prevent evasion boosts from happening. It simply makes the player who used it immediately lose. If inconsistent were banned under the evasion clause, it would technically be considered legal as long as it never gets an evasion boost. This means that +2 speed inconsistent boost can still piss teams off and can provide the incredible rewards that inconsistent provides while providing a very severe drawback. It definitely balances out inconsistent, but it would just add to the luck element of inconsistent which is the unsaid primary reason (yes, I know that there technically is no reason behind any of the votes) why it was banned.
I really just want it banned from any meta. It doesn't matter under what label it is banned under. I would argue to that it is broken without evasion, and it can easily sweep or BP to a sweeper
If you read his post, Evasion isn't removed. An Evasion boost just triggers an auto-loss for the Inconsistent user, lol.
on PO, that's not true, lol.
Yeah, I was clarifying his proposal on how to include Inconsistent in Evasion Clause, not referring to how it is now.
There isn't anything that gets it in the VGC, is there? Unless they changed the VGC rules for the west.
Maybe they thought it sucked at first too. They definitely didn't intend to do anything for a competitive meta.
No, they just want only Gen V pokes because they're afraid people wouldn't use them otherwise, which is silly
How do you alternate Sub + Protect forever? Sub takes away 1/4 of your HP, and 2 turns of leftovers only gives back 1/8.
Obviously not forever, but you can easily alternate for at least 6 turns and get all the boosts you need to pass or sweep
It's not like you'll always only get 2 turns of lefties recovery either. Between Evasion/Defense boosts they might not be able to break your subs, and Protect still has a 50% chance to work consecutively.
Exactly, you will have at least 2 turns of lefties per sub
I think they made Moody to make Battle Subway easier.
It's called Moody now.
It's called Moody now.
My issues with removing Inconsistant.
1) To my knowledge, abilites such as Sand Veil and Snow Cloak, which serve specifically to boost evasion without the element of luck, aren't banned, or non-dreamworld Froslass would be useless. Thusly, this sort of thing has no precedent, and is based on biased conjecture.
2) Luck clearly isn't a big issue in the metagame, as concepts like ParaFusion and RestTalk have long been used and abused by players to create a primarily luck-based environment, even in just isolated pockets.
3) Attacks like Rapid Spin are crappy, but have a single side-effect that warrents there heavy usage, as it specifically combats specific threats. Priority attacks fall into this catagory too, and there are plenty of ways to abuse them by boosting their power. Why don't never-miss attacks fill this same niche, especially when most Moody users are either normal or water, making Aura Sphere and even Shockwave Super Effective(to run some numbers, Shock Wave with STAB is JUST as strong as STAB+Technician Bullet Punch. To put this into perspective, Shock Wave off of Magnezone is just as powerful as Bullet Punch Scizor)
Lastly, I feel like a lot of logs of 'I got swept by Moody/Inconsistant' are biased; think of it like the news paper; the number of people who will complain about being beaten by it are ALWAYS going to be higher than the number of people who speak up about having no issue beating it.
If the people decide it's too big a deal, I guess there's not much to be said, but I don't really think it's really that broken.
1) To my knowledge, abilites such as Sand Veil and Snow Cloak, which serve specifically to boost evasion without the element of luck, aren't banned, or non-dreamworld Froslass would be useless. Thusly, this sort of thing has no precedent, and is based on biased conjecture.
2) Luck clearly isn't a big issue in the metagame, as concepts like ParaFusion and RestTalk have long been used and abused by players to create a primarily luck-based environment, even in just isolated pockets.
3) Attacks like Rapid Spin are crappy, but have a single side-effect that warrents there heavy usage, as it specifically combats specific threats. Priority attacks fall into this catagory too, and there are plenty of ways to abuse them by boosting their power. Why don't never-miss attacks fill this same niche, especially when most Moody users are either normal or water, making Aura Sphere and even Shockwave Super Effective(to run some numbers, Shock Wave with STAB is JUST as strong as STAB+Technician Bullet Punch. To put this into perspective, Shock Wave off of Magnezone is just as powerful as Bullet Punch Scizor)
Lastly, I feel like a lot of logs of 'I got swept by Moody/Inconsistant' are biased; think of it like the news paper; the number of people who will complain about being beaten by it are ALWAYS going to be higher than the number of people who speak up about having no issue beating it.
If the people decide it's too big a deal, I guess there's not much to be said, but I don't really think it's really that broken.
How would that solve anything?
It would make it all too easy to remove Bidoof and Octilary, as evasion would mean nothing and there is always that chance they got +2 Evade and -1 SpDef. Of course, this is Moody, so anything's possible, I just didn't realize solving anything was really the mission here; 30+ pages of back-and-forth so far has only really confirmed that yeah, it's a definite issue, but like most of them, there are ways around it. I just think, in the wide world of pokemon, there are bigger issues to worry about than this.
Scizor doesn't need the power, it needs the prority. Of course iron head is a stronger stab move, that doesn't mean its better.
Exactly my point though. 90 BP off of a 130 base stat is scary enough that I've seen him in ubers; you don't need a more powerful move, if you can get one that addresses a specific threat or shortcoming. If you're afraid of Moody evasion boosts, maybe you might wanna run a Shock Wave instead of Thunder(bolt). If you'd rather feel safe and comfortable with the consistancy and power of Thunder(bolt), and the removal of Moody, then why not. I wouldn't WANT to run Shock Wave, just because of Bidoofs, but the possibility is out there, and I don't think this sort of devation from competative play's comfort zone is THAT game-breaking - but of course, these are just my thoughts and observations, I'm sure competative pokemon will survive my opinions.
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