Abomasnow (Uber Analysis)

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Don Honchkrorleone

Happy Qwilfish the nightmare
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I think it's done.
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http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-bw/460.shtml

[Overview:]

<p>In a tier dominated by Rain, Sun and even Sandstorm, Abomasnow finds himself as the only fully evolved Pokemon that can summon permanent hail. Abomasnow's odd typing also grants him resistances to Ground, Water, Grass and Electric, letting him somewhat counter Kyogre and Groudon at the same time, something that most Pokémon would kill for. His average 90 / 75 / 85 defensive stats, while not the best in Ubers, make the yeti a good SubSeeder. However, the good things end here. His typing gives him incredible 7 weakness including a 4x Fire and 2x Bug, Steel, Rock and Fighting, all common moves in Ubers (Abomasnow is also weak to Flying, but no one uses Flying moves aside Ho-Oh, Flying Arceus and maybe Lugia to tell the truth, while Poison is... Poison). Abomasnow also has low offensive stats by Ubers' standards, with his Attack and Special Attack standing at base 92.</p>

[SET]
name: Hail Summoner
move 1: Blizzard
move 2: Protect
move 3: Wood Hammer
move 4: Ice Shard
Item: Focus Sash
Ability: Snow Warming
Nature: Quiet
Evs.: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 SpA

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Abomasnow is currently the only fully-evolved pokémon that can set up eternal Hail, giving him a niche in some Hail and stall teams. Blizzard is a powerful move that hits most things in Uber metagame super effectively like Groudon, Garchomp and Thundurus, as well doing good damage against Deoxys-S and Darkrai leads. Wood Hammer hits Kyogre and Tyranitar harder than any other move, as well some occasional Hippowdon that comes to block the Hail. Protect is useful when dealing with Fake Out leads, as well as breaking sashes. Finally, Ice Shard is good in the last slot because it can 2HKO fast leads such as Rayquaza, that has Air Lock to send Blizzard's accuracy back to 70%, and Shaymin-S, that can flinch the yeti with Air Slash.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>A Quiet Nature ensures that Abomasnow will always control the weather unless the opponent is Hippowdon. The Evs are for the maximum power with the remaining evs in defense to survive some ExtremeSpeed and other neutral priority attacks. Some calculations:</p>

<ul class="damage_calculation">
<li>Blizzard X Max HP / 68 SpD Impish Groudon: 86.1 - 101.5%</li>
<li>Blizzard X 0 HP / 0 SpD Jolly Deoxys-S: 77.2 - 91.3%</li>
<li>Blizzard X 0 HP / 4 SpD Timid Darkrai: 66.2 - 77.9%</li>
<li>Wood Hammer X Max HP / 4 Def Modest Kyogre: 83.7 - 98.5%</li>
<li>Wood Hammer X 0 HP / 0 Def Hasty Palkia: 53.6 - 63.6%</li>
<li>Wood Hammer X 180 HP / 0 SpD Adamant Tyranitar: 74.6 - 87.6%</li>
</ul>

<p>Not many Pokemon can pair with Abomasnow offensively because of Hail. However, most stall Pokemon can pair very well with him. Stall Pokemon that use Toxic Spikes like Forretress and Tentacruel are good partners, like someone that uses Protect + Toxic like Blissey. Offensively, Kyurem is the best partner for Abomasnow, capable of spamming accurate Blizzards from his 130 base SpA. Mamoswine can also fare well with him, with the bonus of raising his evasion because of Snow Cloak. Both Kyurem and Mamoswine can use Stone Edge to destroy Ho-Oh, one of Abomasnow's greatest enemies. Speaking of Ho-Oh, the rainbow phoenix also teams up with Abomasnow very well due its ability to counter Scizor (if using both Ho-Oh and Abomasnow, be sure to use a Rapid Spinner alongside them, because Stealth Rock is a thorn on their feet). Rayquaza is also a good partner, being able to crush the Steel and Fire-types that walls Abomasow.</p>

[SET]
name: SubSeed
move 1: Leech Seed
move 2: Substitute
move 3: Blizzard / Ice Beam
move 4: Focus Punch / Protect
Item: Focus Sash
Ability: Snow Warming
Nature: Sassy / Calm
Evs.: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Abomasnow may not have the mach Speed from Whimsicott and Shaymin-S, or the resistances from Ferrothorn, but has something that makes him a good SubSeeder: Additional damage from Hail, which helps bringing down some Rest and walls without a recovery move. Blizzard is your main STAB move, denting random Grass-types that are immune to Leech Seed not named Ferrothorn, as well as most part of the Uber metagame, but Ice Beam also works if the 8 PP of Blizzard isn't enough. In the last slot, Focus Punch is an answer to Ferrothorn and Blissey, while Protect is preferred to add some Hail and Leech Seed damage.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The Evs are focused in the defenses, allowing Abomasnow to survive from both physical and special side, but an alternate spread of 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpD is also acceptable fore more physical bulk. If using Protect instead of Focus Punch, a Calm nature is preferred since Abomasnow won't use his Attack stat.</p>

<p>This set is walled by some Grass-types that don't take much from Blizzard. Ferrothorn is one of them, capable of taking Blizzards like a man and retaliating with Gyro Ball or setting up entry hazards, but it fears Focus Punch. Ludicolo, although can't do much in return, also walls Abomasnow. Shaymin-S can kill the yeti with Air Slash, though the pupy can't switch into Blizzard. Ho-Oh, mentioned in the last set, also makes a formidable partner to this one, being able to destroy Nattorei and Shaymin-S with Sacred Fire; as well as hurting Ludicolo with Brave Bird.</p>

[Teammate options]

<p>Abomasnow's hail is hard to deal with. Not many Pokemon can be used with him. Defensively, Reuniclus is one of the best Pokemon to be used with Abomasnow because of Magic Guard. Reuniclus can also set up things that may help Abomasnow if he wasn't killed in early-game and need to return late-game such as like Trick Room and Dual Screens. Stall teams also can appreciate the yeti. In fact, stall teams love Abomasnow and his deadly hail, that helps a lot. Notable examples of Stall membres that go well with Abomasnow include Forretress (Toxic Spikes), Wish Blissey and Resttalk Giratina-A. Forretress in particular can set up Toxic Spikes for the SubSeed set and spin away those darn Stealth Rocks.</p>

<p>Offensively, Abomasnow is much harder to be paired because Hail can damage the yeti's allies if they're using Life Orb. However, There are some pokémon that can pairs well with him. Kyurem pairs with Abomasnow well because Hail will make Blizzard 100% accurate, and will be devastating from 130 base Special Attack. Kyurem also can use Stone Edge to kill that darn Fire-types that are slower than the frozen dragon, such as Reshiram and Ho-Oh. Mamoswine can get a evasion boost from hail thanks to Snow Cloak, and use his powerful Earthquake and Ice Shard to manhandle foes. Now, for non Ice Pokemon, Ho-Oh is one of the best Abomasnow's partners. Ho-Oh resists four of the seven moves that Abomasnow is weak to, and has the right moves to kill all the resistants, while Abomasnow resists Water and Electric. Reuniclus is immune to Hail damage and has an incredible bulk and Special Attack. Keep in mind that all these pokémon bar Mamoswine and Reuniclus are weak to Stealth Rock, making Rapid Spinners such as Forretress very appreciated.</p>

[Optional changes]

<p>Abomasnow doesn't have other options in the Uber tier. Choice Scarf can be used, but even while holding a Choice Scarf, Abomasnow gets outsped by a lot of things that usually don't even carry a Choice Scarf, like Darkrai and Shaymin-S. Growth and Swords Dance are cool boosting moves, but Abomasnow can't take a hit very well, especially in the Uber metagame. Hidden Power Fire is good against Forretress, Scizor and Ferrothorn, but generally switching out is better than attacking. Shadow Ball hits Psychics and Ghosts for super effective damage, but a good old Blizzard already hurt them quite a lot. Abomasnow also has Rock Slide, Focus Blast, Earthquake and Focus Punch as offensive options, but he generally doesn't have the time to use them. Worry Seed destroys pokémon that rely in ability such as Manaphy, Wobbuffet and Shedinja, but is very situational.</p>

[Counters]

<p>Steel pokémon are a nightmare for the yeti. Scizor can Bullet Punch or U-turn to make the snow tree fall. Ferrothorn takes neutral damage from Blizzard and fears Focus Punch, but it can handle the Ice move and retaliate with Gyro Ball. Metagross, Jirachi and Forretress can send the yeti back to Nepal with their strong Meteor Mash, Iron Head and Gyro Ball respectively. Ho-Oh, Reshiram, Chandelure and other Fire-types also make his life miserable. COnkeldurr, Breloom and Hitmontop have a strong Mach Punch to obliterate Abomasnow. Terrakion is weak to Wood Hammer, but has STAB Stone Edge and Close Combat to deal with Abomasnow. Tyranitar, Groudon and Hippowdon can come to change the weather and make Blizzard innacurate, then they proceed to kill with Stone Edge, but all them must be wary of Wood Hammer. Shedinja is immune to everything Abomasnow has outside of the rare Hidden Power Fire or Shadow Ball, but dies for Hail damage. In a nutshell, anything that can take a Blizzard and Wood Hammer and has a super effective move against Abomasnow can be considered as his counter.</p>

[Dream World]

<p>Abomasnow got Soundproof from Dream World. Unfortunately, it's a horrible ability when compared to Snow Warming, and therefore should never be considered.</p>
 

symphonyx64

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You could mention an alternative spread of something like 252 HP/252 Sp.def to soak up all the special attacks found in the Uber tier such as Thunder. It would help dealing with Kyogre significantly easier. That would be more ideal for a SubSeeding set, however. Just my two cents.
 
252 HP won't work because Abomasnow's max HP, 384, is divisible by 8, meaning he'll die in two switch-ins to Stealth Rock or four switch-ins to Spikes. He also gets killed by Poison and Burn faster.
 

Destiny Warrior

also known as Darkwing_Duck
is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Nitpicking, but Snover can set up perma-hail too(from first set)! It should be changed to "only fully evolved Pokemon that can set up permanent hail".
 

Don Honchkrorleone

Happy Qwilfish the nightmare
is a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnus
You could mention an alternative spread of something like 252 HP/252 Sp.def to soak up all the special attacks found in the Uber tier such as Thunder. It would help dealing with Kyogre significantly easier. That would be more ideal for a SubSeeding set, however. Just my two cents.
Liked it. I'll add in the SubSeed part of Other options.

Nitpicking, but Snover can set up perma-hail too(from first set)! It should be changed to "only fully evolved Pokemon that can set up permanent hail".
Thank you for remembering me.

I wouldn't call Abomasnow necessarily frail. I think 'average defensive stats' would be a better explanation.
Got your point. I'm going to substitute.
 
Magic Coat can be good vs Taunt/Spikes/SRock leads like Deoxys-S.

Also, Leech Seed should be mentioned as an option for a Leech Seed, Protect, Magic Coat, Blizzard set. IN Gen. 4 I used an Abomasnow in Ubers with Protect + Leech Seed + Wood Hammer + Blizzard and it fared well; the Leech Seed recovery made it able to counter (not just Check Specs Kyogre) with Protect first, then Leech Seed, then Protect (or Leech Seed a switch).

Leech Seed is also very important as it makes it up for its subpar Defenses, especially when backed by Protect (which also stalls Hail and Toxic damage).
 
Mention Mewtwo... Mewtwo was used in VGC with Abomasnow... I know this is singles, but this will allow Mewtwo to use Blizzard to hit 2x weak to Ice types harder like certain Arceus, Lati@s, etc.

In turn, Mewtwo's Speed, and bulk, and power allow it to stand strong and hit fast. Do any other Ice types become viable with Hail besides the Ice/Dragon? (Perhaps? Snowcloak Froslass with STAB Shadow Ball, Blizzard, Spikes, Destiny Bond, Taunt, etc?)
 

His Eminence Lord Poppington II

proverb:the fish who eats most dies still too
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<p>In a tier dominated by Rain, Sun and even Sandstorm, Abomasnow finds himself as the only fully evolved Pokémon that can summon permanent Hail. Abomasnow's odd typing also grants him resistances to Ground, Water, Grass and Electric, letting him somewhat counter Kyogre and Groudon at the same time, something that most Pokémon would kill for. His average 90 / 75 / 85 defensive stats, while not the best in Ubers, make the yeti a good SubSeeder. However, the good things end here. His typing gives him incredible 7 weakness including 4x Fire, 2x Bug, Steel, Rock and Fighting, all common moves in Ubers (Abomasnow is also weak to Flying, but no one uses Flying moves aside Ho-Oh, Flying Arceus and maybe Lugia to tell the truth, while Poison is... Poison). Abomasnow also has low offensive stats by Ubers' standards, with his Atk and SpA standing at 92. Even with all these flaws, Abomasnow is a solid pokémon in Ubers, and nearly a must on a stall team.</p>

Fixed some grammar, there was too much to point it all out individually so I just edited the entire paragraph.
 

cosmicexplorer

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Abomasnow's not meant to setup Hail only; it also serves as a good check to both Kyogre and Groudon, stopping their weather and hitting them SE with its STAB Wood Hammer or Grass Knot. Its Ice STAB is also SE against the many dragons of Uber play, so its a useful offensive pokemon as well. While certain roles it may play are done better by others, Abomasnow does have some unique roles in Uber play.
 
Would Focus Punch be a good option on the sub/Seed set? hits Dialga, Kyurem, Nattorei, Blissey/Chansey, Heatran, Arceus (Normal, Steel, Dark, Rock, Ice), Tyranitar, Darkrai, etc. much harder not only on the switch, but on the turn Substitute is broken.
 

Don Honchkrorleone

Happy Qwilfish the nightmare
is a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnus
While the interest in the current topic appears to have ended, I feel I must express my desire to continue the discussion; hence I shall raise this thread's position on the page in the hopes that others may notice it.

^ Bump.
 
I think I need to mention something.

However, There are some pokémon that can pairs well with him. Kyurem pairs with Abomasnow well because Hail will make Blizzard 100% accurate, and will be devastating from 130 base Special Attack.
From what I know QC members mentioned, that Kyurem is uncompetitive in Ubers, so I think it's possible to deal with this by:
a) Deleting this sentence.
b) Or discuss again that Kyurem should be called competitive or not. Honestly I never used in Gen 5 Ubers Kyurem so I won't say how it performs in Ubers as I don't know it.

But maybe I'm mistaken.
 
I think it's done.

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Abomasnow is currently the only fully-evolved pokémon that can set up eternal Hail, giving him a niche in some Hail and stall teams. Blizzard is a powerful move that hits most things in Uber metagame super effectively like Groudon, Garchomp and Thundurus, as well doing good damage against Deoxys-S and Darkrai leads.
Thundurus is never common in Ubers at least for now. Replace Thundurus with Rayquaza instead.

Not many Pokemon can pair with Abomasnow offensively because of Hail. However, most stall Pokemon can pair very well with him. Stall Pokemon that use Toxic Spikes like Forretress and Tentacruel are good partners, like someone that uses Protect + Toxic like Blissey.
Tentacruel is still iffy in Ubers, mention somewhere Tentacruel's usability in Ubers is quite limited.

Offensively, Kyurem is the best partner for Abomasnow, capable of spamming accurate Blizzards from his 130 base SpA. Mamoswine can also fare well with him, with the bonus of raising his evasion because of Snow Cloak.
Kyurem sucks in Ubers, despite the Blizzard STAB, it is outclassed by Palkia and Reshiram otherwise. Specs Kyurem hits hard, but Reshiram and Palkia can do better. Killing Lugia isn't even guaranteed because Lugia can just spam Roost and stall you out.

[SET]
name: SubSeed
move 1: Leech Seed
move 2: Substitute
move 3: Blizzard / Ice Beam
move 4: Focus Punch / Protect
Item: Focus Sash
Ability: Snow Warming
Nature: Sassy / Calm
Evs.: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
This is the best set Abomasnow can do in Ubers. Put it as the main set. Slash in Wood Hammer over Substitute.

<p>This set is walled by some Grass-types that don't take much from Blizzard. Ferrothorn is one of them, capable of taking Blizzards like a man and retaliating with Gyro Ball or setting up entry hazards, but it fears Focus Punch. Ludicolo, although can't do much in return, also walls Abomasnow.
If you are using Wood Hammer, Abomasnow beats Ludicolo. Ludicolo can't touch Abomasnow either. It should be noted if Ferrothorn uses Power Whip over Gyro Ball it will fall to repeated Blizzards because Abomasnow is immune to Leech Seed.

Defensively, Reuniclus is one of the best Pokemon to be used with Abomasnow because of Magic Guard. Reuniclus can also set up things that may help Abomasnow if he wasn't killed in early-game and need to return late-game such as like Trick Room and Dual Screens.
Reuniclus sucks in Ubers. That subpar Special Defense isn't good at all in Ubers. In terms of Dual Screens, there are better candidates out there, Mew, Bronzong, Lugia, and Cresselia.

Kyurem also can use Stone Edge to kill that darn Fire-types that are slower than the frozen dragon, such as Reshiram and Ho-Oh.
You won't Stone Edge Reshiram, You will Draco Meteor it for the OHKO.

Reuniclus is immune to Hail damage and has an incredible bulk and Special Attack. Keep in mind that all these pokémon bar Mamoswine and Reuniclus are weak to Stealth Rock, making Rapid Spinners such as Forretress very appreciated.
Immune to hail doesn't mean it pairs up well with Abomasnow. Also, by Uber standards, Reuniclus has pretty average defenses.

Ho-Oh, Reshiram, Chandelure and other Fire-types also make his life miserable.
Remove mentions of Chandelure because without Shadow Tag, it sucks in Ubers.

COnkeldurr, Breloom and Hitmontop have a strong Mach Punch to obliterate Abomasnow. Terrakion is weak to Wood Hammer, but has STAB Stone Edge and Close Combat to deal with Abomasnow.
Conkeldurr, Breloom and Hitmontop are never used in Ubers so removed all of the mentions of these Pokemons.

Put in Fire, Steel, Poison and Fighting Arceus in the Counter section. Judgment will eliminate Abomasnow easily.
 
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