B&W Research Thread

[Chameleon]

Something is messed up. The Electivire has an absurd number of characters in its name, wheras the limit should be ten. Also, I don't see why everyone is "hanging on to life" with so much health remaining.
If they actually changed the nickname mechanic that radically, I've just made a fool of myself, though.

 

[KokoaKiwi]

Something is messed up. The Electivire has an absurd number of characters in its name, wheras the limit should be ten. Also, I don't see why everyone is "hanging on to life" with so much health remaining.
If they actually changed the nickname mechanic that radically, I've just made a fool of myself, though.

Uh..."hang on to life" is the message displayed after the Life Orb recoil. In the japanese version it literally says "lost a a little bit of life / inochi o sukoshi (lose)ta". That message was introduced in Gen V and is terribly translated in the patch.

The millions of characters in the names are just a product of bad pokesav, happens by trying to use 10+ characters in the pokemon's name.

 

[breh]

Wait..wha--
How the shit did that happen? In a nutshell:

Twisted dimentions returned to normal.
Ninjask uses Swords Dance.
Meloetta uses Trick Room.
speed Boost kicks in.
Ninjask used Baton Pass despite being faster and trick room.

So yeah, maybe BP has priority now? I'm gonna test it soon. Now >_>

edit: maybe Meloetta was holding a lagging tail/iron ball? In a few minutes ill post my results.

Results.
*Send in level 12 lopunny against level 71 sharpedo.
*Switch to wondertomb, KO, and Lopunny level-jumps to 27.
*Lopunny's speed is now 88.
*Switch Lopunny in
*Giima sends out Crookodile/Warubiaru, level 71
*I select Baton Pass. He goes first. Lopunny dies to Earthquake. I die before baton passing.

Yup, probably that Meloetta had a lagging tail.

how the hell do you think TR gets up in a TR team?
pokemon use Trick Room.
pokemon like meloetta.
trick room has the least priority in the game.
you know what has more priority?
every move ninjask can learn.
yeah it's pretty obvious why it went last IMO... (misclick I guess)

sorry my stupidity is amplified when I'm in a rush

uhhhhh

hack? recreate the scenario I guess

 

[KokoaKiwi]

Check the damn video.

Twisted dimentions return to normal.
<turn ends>
Ninjask uses Swords Dance.
Meloetta uses Trick Room.
Meloetta twists dimentions.
Speed boost does its fat thing.
<turn ends>
<starts a new turn>
Ninjask outruns Meloetta and uses Baton Pass.
Electivire comes in.
Meloetta uses Psychic.


So yeah, there's literally no way in earth ninjask can go first than meloetta under trick room, i think.

 

[Thorhammer]

how the hell do you think TR gets up in a TR team?
pokemon use Trick Room.
pokemon like meloetta.
trick room has the least priority in the game.
you know what has more priority?
every move ninjask can learn.
yeah it's pretty obvious why it went last IMO... (misclick I guess)

Meloetta used Psychic that turn, not Trick Room.

 

[Judas DN]

Perhaps it has something to do with breaking the 999 stat limit? In many games that feature numbers they have set some kind of limit in the game, which when broken can cause glitches. Either the numbers just reset back to 0 or they go to infinity.

It's clear that this was also a problem for the programmers of the RBY generation. As proven by the fact that they did not allow any pokemon to raise their stats above 999 . Apparently the programmers managed to fix this problem in the later generations allowing pokemon to raise their stats above 999 without causing glitches.

Maybe they haven't thought of fixing this under Trick Room conditions? Perhaps once the ninjask reached 1068 Speed it got reset to 68, allowing it to outspeed Meloetta under Trick Room?

I know that this theory may sound a bit ridiculous but to be honest i cannot think of any other explanation.

 

[Thorhammer]

Perhaps it has something to do with breaking the 999 stat limit? In many games that feature numbers they have set some kind of limit in the game, which when broken can cause glitches. Either the numbers just reset back to 0 or they go to infinity.

It's clear that this was also a problem for the programmers of the RBY generation. As proven by the fact that they did not allow any pokemon to raise their stats above 999 . Apparently the programmers managed to fix this problem in the later generations allowing pokemon to raise their stats above 999 without causing glitches.

Maybe they haven't thought of fixing this under Trick Room conditions? Perhaps once the ninjask reached 1068 Speed it got reset to 68, allowing it to outspeed Meloetta under Trick Room?

I know that this theory may sound a bit ridiculous but to be honest i cannot think of any other explanation.

Highly unlikely. Stats don't reset like that under any other condition, so they shouldn't reset in Trick Room, either. It's a safe bet that limits are higher now.

What we need is more actual testing, not wild speculation.

 

[Judas DN]

What we need is more actual testing, not wild speculation.

Experiments are only used for the verification of a hypothesis not the other way round. In other words, actual testing will not explain anything, if someone imitates this battle in-game and occurs the same strange mechanic we still won't know how it works.

That is why i disagree with your statement that we don't need 'wild' speculation. Because no solid explanation exists for this particular mechanic, we need to open ourselves for every possible explanation. Only once we have a few theories one can start testing whether they are right or wrong.

I do agree however that my theory is highly unlikely, but if you know any better explanation i'd like to hear it.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

Perhaps it has something to do with breaking the 999 stat limit? In many games that feature numbers they have set some kind of limit in the game, which when broken can cause glitches. Either the numbers just reset back to 0 or they go to infinity.

It's clear that this was also a problem for the programmers of the RBY generation. As proven by the fact that they did not allow any pokemon to raise their stats above 999 . Apparently the programmers managed to fix this problem in the later generations allowing pokemon to raise their stats above 999 without causing glitches.

Maybe they haven't thought of fixing this under Trick Room conditions? Perhaps once the ninjask reached 1068 Speed it got reset to 68, allowing it to outspeed Meloetta under Trick Room?

I know that this theory may sound a bit ridiculous but to be honest i cannot think of any other explanation.

I recall Marowak's Attack would "roll over" if it used Swords Dance once while holding a Thick Club in GSC, as Netbattle's stats went only up to 1024. I don't know if it happened in the retail carts but hell, it's a possibility. After we had the Acid Rain glitch, anything's possible...


My theory is that a +6 Speed Boost gives +1 priority to the next move. Guess I'm gonna hack myself a couple Ninjasks.

 

[Sandstreamer]

I recall Marowak's Attack would "roll over" if it used Swords Dance once while holding a Thick Club in GSC, as Netbattle's stats went only up to 1024. I don't know if it happened in the retail carts but hell, it's a possibility. After we had the Acid Rain glitch, anything's possible...

Afaik it was in the game as good ol' evilgsbot had it, too.

 

[Chomper The Sharptooth]

I don't think I've posted here before but I wanted to speculate, maybe speed boosts work like drops when in Trick Room (so they still make you "faster"). Not sure how a -6 Ninjask fares against a min speed/-nature Meloetta but I think it could be a possibility.

 

[KokoaKiwi]

^^ Then again, I'm pretty sure Hammer Arm makes me 'faster' under trick room...

 

[R_N]

I recall Marowak's Attack would "roll over" if it used Swords Dance once while holding a Thick Club in GSC, as Netbattle's stats went only up to 1024. I don't know if it happened in the retail carts but hell, it's a possibility. After we had the Acid Rain glitch, anything's possible...


My theory is that a +6 Speed Boost gives +1 priority to the next move. Guess I'm gonna hack myself a couple Ninjasks.

Maybe we should avoid hacking to test possibilities that may have been brought up by hacking.
Just in case

 

[Mario With Lasers]

I don't think I've posted here before but I wanted to speculate, maybe speed boosts work like drops when in Trick Room (so they still make you "faster"). Not sure how a -6 Ninjask fares against a min speed/-nature Meloetta but I think it could be a possibility.

Then again, it happened only in that turn. Every other TR turn, Ninjask moved last OR used Protect.

Maybe we should avoid hacking to test possibilities that may have been brought up by hacking.
Just in case

But I'd just hack a Speed Boost Ninjask and use it in a non-patched game, how would that interfere...

 

[Thorhammer]

Experiments are only used for the verification of a hypothesis not the other way round. In other words, actual testing will not explain anything, if someone imitates this battle in-game and occurs the same strange mechanic we still won't know how it works.

That is why i disagree with your statement that we don't need 'wild' speculation. Because no solid explanation exists for this particular mechanic, we need to open ourselves for every possible explanation. Only once we have a few theories one can start testing whether they are right or wrong.

I do agree however that my theory is highly unlikely, but if you know any better explanation i'd like to hear it.

That's completely false. Experiments are everything we have to go on.

What we need to do is see if we can replicate this using factors as close to the original conditions as possible, with the exception of any hacked factors. If we can't replicate it, we can't draw any conclusions from it. Assuming we can replicate it, we then need to start changing conditions one at a time and repeating the experiment until we find the condition that, when removed, causes the event to stop occurring.

That's the only thing that will be any help to us. Otherwise we'll be stuck with guesses that, as you said, are highly unlikely. Anything we can come up with for this will appear highly unlikely. The only way to get anything that'll be any help to us is more testing.

 

[CTNC]

If someone is using Outrage or another version of Thrash and Cursed Body activates on them does the user get to select a different move or does he get a message saying the move is disabled?

 

[breh]

If someone is using Outrage or another version of Thrash and Cursed Body activates on them does the user get to select a different move or does he get a message saying the move is disabled?

If lock moves fail (petal dance hits an herbivore, thrash/uproar hits a ghost, or any one of the three hits a shedinja), the user will stop using the move ala rollout.

 

[Zebstrika]

Perhaps it has something to do with breaking the 999 stat limit? In many games that feature numbers they have set some kind of limit in the game, which when broken can cause glitches. Either the numbers just reset back to 0 or they go to infinity.

It's clear that this was also a problem for the programmers of the RBY generation. As proven by the fact that they did not allow any pokemon to raise their stats above 999 . Apparently the programmers managed to fix this problem in the later generations allowing pokemon to raise their stats above 999 without causing glitches.

Maybe they haven't thought of fixing this under Trick Room conditions? Perhaps once the ninjask reached 1068 Speed it got reset to 68, allowing it to outspeed Meloetta under Trick Room?

I know that this theory may sound a bit ridiculous but to be honest i cannot think of any other explanation.

It's not ridiculous, but Ninjask must have at least 1176 speed at +6, but probably closer to around 1600 considering Electivire was hacked and generally, to play competitively, you'll want pokemon with at least half decent stats. Therefore, if stats rolled over at 999, Ninjask would have a speed stat of 177, but probably around 600, and even if stats rolled over at 1024, Ninjask would have a minimum speed of 152 and probably around 550-600. Meloetta must have 166-306 speed, but considering it had Trick Room and it must have been hacked to even exist, I assume it would have closer to 166 speed. While your scenario is possible, it's quite unlikely and the players would have to be very stupid or playing with some sort of restriction I didn't catch if they were given the opportunity to have any pokemon and chose like this.
Edit: Meloetta "outsped" like it should at +4, so that means, assuming speed would roll over at 999 or 1024, Ninjask must have at least 333 speed at +6, higher than any Voice/Aria(is this confirmed?) Forme Meloetta can achieve at +0. Sorry, but your theory looks extremely unlikely.

 

[Judas DN]

Yes you're right... guess i can throw that one into the recycle bin.

 

[Zebstrika]

Throwing it into the recycle bin... good idea, because that means you can come up with another clever theory, only it's different.

My idea: First, it could be a direct result of hacking. Second, a little more odd, is the following. The game seems to have some sort of hack check. There are some people who see that the more you hack (and also the less realistic your hacks are) the game seems to cheat more. Maybe it could be some sort of error there.
After all, we haven't been able to replicate it (and won't be able to do it exactly on a non-hacked game until Meloetta is released).

 

[breh]

Throwing it into the recycle bin... good idea, because that means you can come up with another clever theory, only it's different.

My idea: First, it could be a direct result of hacking. Second, a little more odd, is the following. The game seems to have some sort of hack check. There are some people who see that the more you hack (and also the less realistic your hacks are) the game seems to cheat more. Maybe it could be some sort of error there.
After all, we haven't been able to replicate it (and won't be able to do it exactly on a non-hacked game until Meloetta is released).

I don't think meloetta is the problem. Espeon is easier to work with and has roughly the same speed and trick room. Ninjask would be the same. Just see what happens when Ninjask gets +6 speed - if its speed rolls over (make two, one for 1000 and one for 1024), then we know that's why. Also, test if Speed Boost gives baton pass priority.

Otherwise assume hacks and say fuck it

 

[KokoaKiwi]

Hacks have a number of bad side effects, but this is the first time we've seen something like this. Hack or not, I think this deserves some testing. I'd love to test, but I don't have access to Meloetta to recreate that specific scenario.

 

[Thorhammer]

Hacks have a number of bad side effects, but this is the first time we've seen something like this. Hack or not, I think this deserves some testing. I'd love to test, but I don't have access to Meloetta to recreate that specific scenario.

Substituting anything else with the same base 90 Speed should give the same result. There are plenty of those.

 

[KokoaKiwi]

Substituting anything else with the same base 90 Speed should give the same result. There are plenty of those.

True, I'll test that tomorrow.

 

[Zebstrika]

Only that if the game has some glitched anti-hack check, we would ban legal hacks a lot more then.