Lugia

Fireburn

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Lugia

---------------------------------

[Overview]

<p>Lugia's massive defenses and base 110 Speed allow it to wall and outstall a significant amount of threats in the Uber metagame, while also being one of the few counters to the dreaded Extreme Killer Arceus. This beast is able to take both physical and special hits like a champ, shutting down many of the mixed attackers that otherwise threaten Uber stall teams. Although it now has to compete with Arceus, who has similar defenses, but much better offenses, Lugia still boasts many advantages that make it a fine choice for any Uber stall team, its only true faults being its middling offenses and weakness to Stealth Rock.</p>

[SET]
name: Great Wall
move 1: Roost
move 2: Reflect / Substitute
move 3: Dragon Tail / Ice Beam
move 4: Toxic / Whirlwind / Earthquake
item: Leftovers
nature: Impish / Jolly
evs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SpD

[Set Comments]

<p>Lugia's defenses are very tough to crack, so it is well suited to being a physical wall. With the listed combination of moves, it can function as an excellent counter to some of the top threats in the Uber metagame, including, but not limited to Groudon, Rayquaza, Garchomp, Normal Arceus, Giratina-O, and certain sets of Palkia and Dialga. It also gets Leftovers, an immunity to Spikes and Toxic Spikes, and Dragon Tail to set it apart from Arceus, who appears to outclass Lugia at first glance with its similar defenses, but much better offenses.</p>

<p>Roost is Lugia's most important move. It provides reliable healing while cancelling out its weaknesses to Rock-, Electric-, and Ice-type attacks for a turn, which Lugia can often take advantage of due to its great Speed stat. Reflect allows Lugia to bolster its Defense stat to counter physical sweepers more efficiently. Substitute however, combined with Pressure and Toxic, turns Lugia into a stalling machine that can outlast many opponents while gaining a shield from status. Dragon Tail is a great move for Lugia, allowing it to strike at Dragon-type Pokemon for solid damage while forcing any Pokemon that is not behind a Substitute out of play.</p>

<p>Lugia has several good options for the last moveslot. Toxic is probably the best, as it allows Lugia to whittle away at opponents such as Groudon while focusing on keeping its own HP high with Roost. Whirlwind is still an option to reliably phaze away Pokemon that rely on Substitute, such as Shaymin-S. If Whirlwind is being used, Ice Beam can be run to help deal more damage to the likes of Rayquaza and Garchomp as well as Groudon. However, Dragon Tail is usually superior as it fulfills the role of both Ice Beam and Whirlwind, opening up a moveslot for Lugia. Earthquake also allows Lugia to strike at Zekrom, Heatran, and Reshiram switch-ins, all of which are key stallbreakers, so weakening them as fast as possible can be a game-changer.</p>

[Additional Comments]

<p>The EV spread listed above is best to maximize Lugia's ability to stomach physical attacks - for example, a Lugia with that EV spread can never be OHKOed by an Life Orb-boosted Outrage from Rayquaza at +1 Atk after Stealth Rock damage, and it can also take on sun-fueled Sacred Fire from Ho-Oh provided Reflect is active. The Special Defense EVs also ensure that Lugia can never be 2HKOed by an unboosted Thunder from Timid Palkia, factoring in Leftovers. However, an EV spread of
252 HP / 16 Def / 240 Spe with a Jolly nature is also reasonable. It allows Lugia to outspeed Terrakion, allowing it to throw up a Reflect before it can use Stone Edge, and it allows Lugia to take on Garchomp, Swords Dance Rayquaza, and mixed Palkia and Dialga more effectively. Make sure to use a Bold (or Timid) nature if running Ice Beam so as to not gimp its power.</p>

<p>Toxic is probably Lugia's biggest hindrance, followed closely by Stealth Rock. The former renders Lugia incapable of walling anything due to the ever-increasing poison damage, whilst the latter slices 25% of Lugia HP away every time it switches in. Thankfully, Forretress is immune to Toxic and can also make use of Rapid Spin to clear Stealth Rock from the field, giving Lugia more freedom in switching in to absorb blows. Forretress is also capable of setting up entry hazards to help weaken foes alongside Whirlwind and Dragon Tail. Cleric support from the likes of Blissey is also great in making sure Toxic doesn't cripple Lugia.</p>

<p>Darkrai is an enormous problem for Lugia. Dark Void will block Lugia's attempts to phaze it out by lulling it to sleep, giving Darkrai a chance to obtain a Nasty Plot before destroying Lugia with Dark Pulse. Tyranitar and Magnezone also completely wall Lugia without Earthquake, and can easily cut it down using Stone Edge or Thunder, respectively. Lugia is also completely incapable of doing anything to Blissey, who can just cripple Lugia with Toxic and sit there until it succumbs to the debilitating poison. Wobbuffet can trap Lugia with Shadow Tag and turn it into setup fodder using Encore. Forretress and Ferrothorn can also come in and set up whatever they want on Lugia, since it can't really hurt them. Finally, very powerful attackers such as Kyogre and Zekrom usually pack super effective Electric-type attacks to annihilate Lugia. Groudon handles Zekrom and Magnezone with ease thanks to its immunity to Electric-type attacks and great defenses, and the sunlight it brings with it makes Thunder less of a worry to Lugia. Tyranitar and Blissey also have little hope of getting through Groudon. Fighting Arceus, with its impressive defenses, handles Darkrai, Tyranitar, and Ferrothorn very well, and is capable of using Forretress as setup bait. Palkia can come in on Kyogre with ease and blast it away with Thunder, and it can also use a mixed set to lure in and take out Wobbuffet.</p>

[SET]
name: Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Thunder / Earth Power / Whirlwind
move 4: Roost
item: Leftovers
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 16 Def / 240 Spe

[Set Comments]

<p>Although one may view Calm Mind Lugia as outclassed by Arceus, who is faster and boasts better offenses, butsimply not the case. Lugia, unlike most of the Arceus formes, can hold Leftovers. Add on Pressure and an, and Lugia can still function very well as a capable user of Calm Mind, able to set up and potentially sweep while remaining a very usable wall.</p>

<p>Ice Beam is Lugia's main attack on this set. Although Lugia's Special Attack is mediocre, Ice Beam will still do plenty of damage after a few Calm Mind boosts, and the super effective coverage it has on Dragon-types is a huge plus. Thunder zaps Kyogre and Manaphy for good damage while getting a decent smack on Steel-type Pokemon. It also forms the infamous BoltBeam combo with Thunder. Earth Power, on the other hand, blasts Heatran and Magnezone to pieces while landing a solid smack on Tyranitar. Either way, both moves have great type coverage when paired with Ice Beam. Whirlwind or Dragon Tail can also be used to stop other Calm Mind users from setting up on Lugia, if one is willing to forgo the added type coverage.</p>

[Additional Comments]

<p>In addition to being hampered by all of the Pokemon that trouble the previous set, other Calm Mind users, such as the Arceus formes (Dark, Electric, Ice, Ghost, and Rock), can easily beat Lugia one on one due to their better type matchup or offensive stats. Blissey can handle most kinds of Calm Mind Arceus with ease thanks to Toxic. Calm Mind Kyogre is easily dealt with by Zekrom and Grass Arceus thanks to their powerful super effective STAB moves and resistance to Water-type attacks. Forretress can also set up Toxic Spikes, which greatly hampers most of this set's counters by putting them on a timer so they won't be able to bother Lugia as much anymore.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Since Garchomp and Groudon will pretty much never switch into it, Thunder Wave is an excellent support move for Lugia. It can help slow the opponent's sweepers and revenge killers, paving the way for a slow Pokemon such as Groudon to sweep. Light Screen amps up Lugia's Special Defense even more, making it nigh impossible to break with special attacks. Rest + Sleep Talk can be used for status protection, but due to the changed sleep mechanics (the sleep counter resets every time you switch out) and the fact Roost is generally superior, it simply isn't worth it. Safeguard is also an option to give Lugia status protection and support the team. Shed Shell can be used as an alternative item choice to stop Wobbuffet from turning Lugia into setup bait. Weather Ball combined with sunlight allows Lugia to fry Forretress and Ferrothorn, which is very useful as otherwise, they can use Lugia as setup bait. Finally, Aeroblast is Lugia's strongest STAB move, but it really isn't useful for anything in particular.</p>

<p>By running a moveset of Rest / Sleep Talk / Whirlwind / Dragon Tail, Lugia can use an interesting tactic known as Speed Shuffling. Sleep Talk cancels out the negative priority of phazing moves, and because Lugia learns both Whirlwind and Dragon Tail, Sleep Talk will have a 66% chance of forcing the opponent to immediately switch out, which Lugia can abuse with entry hazards thanks to its high Speed for devastating effects. However, this set cannot touch anything with Taunt and will often be put into a tough situation if Sleep Talk does not select a phazing move, so usage is generally not recommended.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Dark-types such as Darkrai and Tyranitar are generally good answers to Lugia, as it can't really hurt either aside from Toxic, while Tyranitar and Darkrai carry STAB Crunch and Dark Pulse, respectively, to put down Lugia, although the former risks being outstalled by Reflect and Toxic. Kyogre and Zekrom carry mighty Water- and Electric-type STAB attacks that are just too powerful for Lugia to handle. Blissey also completely walls Lugia and can outstall it with Toxic while laughing at Lugia's attemps to hurt it. Reshiram, although it dislikes Calm Mind variants, can come in and roast Lugia alive with Blue Fire provided the weather is sunny. Heatran is in a similar position. Although it fears Earth Power and Earthquake much more than Reshiram, it doesn't care about Toxic and can even Taunt Lugia to stop it from healing itself.</p>

<p>Toxic absolutely ruins Lugia's walling abilities, so simply hitting it with the debilitating Poison-type move will leave it crippled and near useless. Stealth Rock also isn't fun for Lugia either. Losing 25% HP on every switch-in really messes up Lugia's ability to take hits.</p>

[Dream World]

<p>The Dream World has bestowed upon Lugia the ability Multiscale. Provided Lugia is at full HP, it will received halved damage from all attacks. Provided you can keep Stealth Rock away, Lugia can easily abuse this ability in conjunction with its high Speed stat and Recover (Multiscale and Roost form an illegal combination) to make it even more difficult to take down and capable of taking even STAB super effective attacks.</p>
Arceus) this is immunity to Spikes and Toxic Spikes
 

Darkmalice

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name: Great Wall
move 1: Roost
move 2: Reflect
move 3: Dragon Tail / Ice Beam
move 4: Toxic / Whirlwind
item: Leftovers
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 24 Def / 234 Spe
Given that the slash order is Dragon Tail / Ice Beam, the nature should be Jolly / Timid
 
Earthquake should be mentioned in AC? since it pairs well with Dragon Tail, hurts Heatran and touches Dialga / Tyranitar.

I think Weather Ball gets a mention since it KOes Forretress and Nattorei in the sun.

Kyogre allows Lugia to abuse Thunder, safeguards Lugia from Reshiram's Specs Blue Fire and absorbing Ice attacks easily. Kyogre can scare off Tyranitar and Steel Arceus as well and usually beats Dark Arceus one-on-one.
 

firecape

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Agreeing with Trickroom. An Impish nature with EQ + Dragon Tail can be quite frustating for teams that rely a lot on Heatran to break stall. It may not kll it in one shot, but Heatran certainly won't be stalling Lugia out. Other than that it's fine I think.


2/2
 
I am not sure but is a bulkier set viable as a slash? Impish/Bold Lugia definitely has it's merits like countering SD Arceus, Groudon, Dragon Dance Rayquaza, Ho-Oh, Giratina-O and Scarfed Garchomp better. I think those threats are quite common as well while Timid Lugia can't just take too many hits from them without setting up Reflect first.

Considering Ho-Oh, Groudon and Giratina-O run little speed, a bulkier Lugia might be viable. Dragon Dance Rayquaza and Scarfed Garchomp will still outspeed Lugia regardless of evs and nature.

With a Bold Nature, Lugia can put some evs into Special Defense so that it survives 2 Thunders on average after Leftovers recovery.
 

Fireburn

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Weather Ball will be put in OC, EQ will be mentioned in AC of the wall set, and a bulkier EV spread will be mentioned.

Got some parts up, rest will be done tonight or tomorrow.

EDIT- Ready for GP checks :)
 
With 80 SpD evs, Lugia has a very high chance of surviving 2 Thunders from Scarf Kyogre or Palkia. I think that can be useful for bulkier Lugias as they don't mind paralysis as much.
176 Def evs still allows Lugia to survive a +1 Dragon Dance Rayquaza Outrage and a +2 Garchomp Stone Edge without Life Orb.

I think an Offensive set deserves mention if not a set. I tried it and it worked ok. In Gen 4, Theorymon made the set. It still works in this gen. Aeroblast is still a very powerful hit when boosted with Calm Mind and Life Orb which will surprise Reshiram, Heatran, Kyogre, Forretress, Nattorei and Zekrom expecting a weak Ice Beam. Sharp beak makes a decent alternative in such a set since a +1 Aeroblast can 2HKO Natttorei and Wobbuffet
 
I just wanted to point out that 234 is not divisible by 4 so you'd get the same speed as if you ran 232 EVs.

Just a nitpick, good stuff overall.
 

Fireburn

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Updated with English names and format updates.

Oh yeah, and no on the offensive set. Totally outclassed by Arceus who has a better movepool, can have better offensive typing through plate changes, and is stronger than Lugia even without the Life Orb. It's also faster.
 
Fireburn said:
The EVs enable Lugia to outspeed everything slower than Terrakion (including the standard Extremekiller Arceus) while providing the best possible physical bulk.
Just some slight problem. With 234 Speed EVs, Lugia reaches 345 Speed. That is one point below Terrakion. I think you would want to bump the Speed EVs to 240 Speed which puts Lugia at 347 Speed.

Chansey should be mentioned in the counters section because she is as good as Blissey :P Since most analyses now have Chansey mentioned, Lugia's analysis must include it as well.
 
Something that' seriously nagging me is your mention of outspeeding extreme killer Arceus. Forgive my lack of ubers knowledge if I'm wrong, but at base 120 speed, without the old 100 all limit, won't Arceus outspeed, and if sporting shadow force (not so uncommon) be able to OHKO Lugia after SR damage (factoring in a life orb and an SD) the Sd being obtained on the switch to Lugia)? I mean, you could theoretically predict the shadow force and set up reflect but still. Although I may be horribly wrong and ExtremeKiller Arceus may not run the speed (I'm assuming max). If so I'm sorry to have wasted your time.
 
The standard Extremekiller runs 307 Speed which is slower than this Lugia. Bold Lugia probably takes on the Extremekiller better because it takes much less from Extremespeed.

Lugia always sets up a Reflect first when facing Swords Dance Arceus so Shadow Force will not kill Lugia. Also Shadow Force is extremely predictable.

Change your Lugia's EV spread. The one you are using is equal to non Scarf Terrakion who is at 346.

The Speed shuffler set needs to be added :D It works well when you phaze them before they move. Jibaku and Theorymon approved that set too.
 
Just wondering, is that speed really needed? How many terrakions do you see, out of which, how many are not scarfed?
 
Just wondering, is that speed really needed? How many terrakions do you see, out of which, how many are not scarfed?
They are pretty rare, and out of that most are scarfed, the same respect, non-scarf chomp was / is hardly seen in ubers last gen, though Lugia was still EVs to outspeed it. There is a Bold set for those that do not feel they need the speed.
 
[Overview]

<p>Lugia's massive defenses and base 110 Speed allow it to wall and outstall a significant amount of threats in the Uber metagame, including while also being one of the few counters to the dreaded Extremekiller Arceus. This beast is able to take both physical and special hits like a champ, enabling Lugia to shut down many of the mixed attackers that otherwise threaten Uber stall teams. Although it now has to compete with Arceus, who has similar defenses, but much better offenses, Lugia still most boasts many advantages that make it a fine choice for any Uber stall team,. Its only true faults being its middling offenses and weakness to Stealth Rock.</p>

[SET]
name: Great Wall
move 1: Roost
move 2: Reflect
move 3: Dragon Tail / Ice Beam
move 4: Toxic / Whirlwind / Earthquake
item: Leftovers
nature: Jolly / Impish
evs: 252 HP / 24 Def / 234 Spe

[Set Comments]

<p>Lugia's defenses are very tough to crack, so it is well suited to being a physical wall. With the listed combination of moves, it can function as an very good excellent counter to some of the top threats in the Ubers metagame, including, but not limited to Groudon, Rayquaza, Garchomp, Extremekiller Arceus, Giratina-O, and certain sets of Palkia and Dialga with great ease. It also gets Leftovers, immunity to Spikes and Toxic Spikes, and Dragon Tail to set it apart from Arceus, who appears to outclass Lugia at first glance due to possessing similar defenses, but much better offenses.</p>

<p>Roost is Lugia's most important move. It provides reliable healing while canceling out its weaknesses to Rock-, Electric-, and Ice-type attacks for a turn, which Lugia can often take advantage of due to his its great Speed stat. Reflect allows Lugia to bolster its Defense stat to counter physical sweepers more efficiently. Dragon Tail is a great move for Lugia, allowing it to strike at Dragon-type Pokemon for solid damage while forcing any Pokemon that is not behind a Substitute out of play.</p>

<p>Lugia has several good options for the last moveslot. Toxic is probably the best as it allows Lugia to whittle away at opponents such as Groudon while focusing on keeping its own HP high with Roost. Whirlwind is still an option to reliably phaze away Pokemon that rely on Substitute, such as Shaymin-S. If Whirlwind is being used, Ice Beam can be run to help deal more damage to the likes of Rayquaza and Garchomp as well as Groudon. However, Dragon Tail is usually superior as it fulfills the role of both Ice Beam and Whirlwind, opening up a moveslot for Lugia. Earthquake also allows Lugia to strike at Zekrom, Heatran, and Reshiram switch-ins, all of which are key stallbreakers, so weakening them as fast as possible can often make or break a stall team be a game-changer.</p>

<p>The EVs enable Lugia to outspeed everything slower than Terrakion (including the standard Extremekiller Arceus), while providing the best possible physical bulk. However, one can use a spread of 252 HP / 176 Defense / 80 SpD with an Impish nature to further enhance Lugia's ability to stomach physical attacks - for example, a Lugia with that EV spread can never be OHKOed by a once Dragon Danced Outrage from Life Orb Rayquaza after Stealth Rock damage. The Special Defense EVs also ensure that Lugia can never be 2HKOed by an unboosted Thunder from Timid Palkia, factoring in Leftovers. Make sure to use a Timid (or Bold) nature if running Ice Beam so as to not gimp its power.</p>

[Additional Comments]

<p>Toxic is probably Lugia's biggest hindrance, as is Stealth Rock. The former renders Lugia incapable of walling anything due to the ever-increasing poison damage, whilst the latter slices 25% of Lugia HP away every time it switches in. Thankfully, Forretress is immune to Toxic and can also make use of Rapid Spin to clear Stealth Rock from the field, giving Lugia more freedom in switching in to absorb blows. Forretress is also capable of setting up entry hazards to help weaken foes alongside Whirlwind and Dragon Tail. Cleric support from the likes of Blissey is also great in making sure Toxic doesn't cripple Lugia.</p>

<p>Darkrai is an enormous problem for Lugia. Dark Void will block Lugia's attempts to phaze it out by lulling it to sleep, giving Darkrai a chance to nail a boost with Nasty Plot obtain a Nasty Plot before ending destroying Lugia with Dark Pulse. Tyranitar and Magnezone also completely wall Lugia without Earthquake and can easy cut it down using Stone Edge or Thunder, respectively. Lugia is also completely incapable of doing anything to Blissey, who can just Toxic Lugia and sit there until it succumbs to the debilitating poison. Wobbuffet can trap Lugia with Shadow Tag and turn it into set up fodder using Encore. Forretress and Ferrothorn can also come in and set up whatever they want on Lugia since it can't really hurt them. Finally, very powerful attackers such as Kyogre and Zekrom usually pack super effective Electric-type attacks to annihilate Lugia. Groudon handles Zekrom and Magnezone with ease thanks to its immunity to Electric-type attacks and great defenses, and the sunlight it brings with it via Drought makes Thunder less of a worry to Lugia. Tyranitar and Blissey also have little hope of getting through Groudon. Fighting Arceus, with its impressive defenses, handles Darkrai, Tyranitar, and Ferrothorn very well, and is capable of using Forretress as set up bait. Palkia can come in on Kyogre with ease and blast it away with Thunder, and it can also use a mixed set to help lure in and take out Wobbuffet.</p>

[SET]
name: Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Thunder / Earth Power / Whirlwind
move 4: Roost
item: Leftovers
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 24 Def / 234 Spe

[Set Comments]

<p>Although one may view Calm Mind Lugia as outclassed by Arceus, who is faster and boasts better offenses, this is not the case. Lugia, unlike most of the Arceus formes, can hold Leftovers. Combine this with Add on Pressure and immunity to Spikes and Toxic Spikes, and Lugia can still function very well as a capable user of Calm Mind, able to set up and potentially sweep while remaining a very usable wall.</p>

<p>Ice Beam is Lugia's main attack on this set. Although Lugia's base Special Attack is mediocre, Ice Beam will still do plenty of damage after a few Calm Mind boosts, and the super effective coverage it has on Dragon-types is a huge plus. Thunder zaps Kyogre and Manaphy for good damage while getting a decent smack on Steel-type Pokemon. It also forms the infamous BoltBeam combo. Earth Power, on the other hand, blasts Heatran and Magnezone to pieces while landing a solid smack on Tyranitar. Either way, both moves have great type coverage when paired with Ice Beam. Whirlwind or Dragon Tail can also be used to stop other Calm Mind users from setting up on Lugia, if one is willing to forgo the added type coverage.</p>

[Additional Comments]

<p>In addition to being hampered by all of the Pokemon that trouble the previous set, other Calm Minders, such as Kyogre and certain types of Arceus (Dark, Electric, Ice, Ghost, and Rock) can easily beat Lugia one on one due to their better type matchup or offensive stats. Blissey can handle most kinds of Calm Mind Arceus with ease thanks to Toxic. Calm Mind Kyogre is easily dealt with by Zekrom and Grass Arceus thanks to their powerful super effective STAB moves and resistance to Water-type attacks. Forretress can also set up Toxic Spikes, which greatly hampers most of this set's counters by putting them on a timer, so they won't be able to hurt Lugia much.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Since Garchomp and Groudon will pretty much never switch into it, Thunder Wave is an excellent support move for Lugia. It can help slow the opponent's sweepers and revenge killers, paving the way for a slow Pokemon such as Groudon to sweep. Light Screen amps up Lugia's Special Defense stat even more, making it nigh impossible to break with special attacks. Rest + Sleep Talk can be used for status protection, but due to the changed sleep mechanics (the sleep counters resets every turn) and the fact Roost is generally superior, it simply isn't worth it. Safeguard is also an option to give Lugia status protection and support the team. Lugia can make 101 HP Substitutes;, which, when combined with Psycho Shock and Calm Mind, it Lugia can defeat Blissey one on one. Shed Shell can be used as an alternative item choice to stop Wobbuffet from turning Lugia into set up bait with Shadow Tag. Weather Ball combined with sunlight allows Lugia to fry Forretress and Ferrothorn, very useful as otherwise, they can use Lugia as set up bait. Finally, Aeroblast is Lugia's strongest STAB move, but it really isn't useful for anything in particular.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Dark-types such as Darkrai and Tyranitar are generally good answers to Lugia. It can't really hurt either aside from Toxic, while Tyranitar and Darkrai carry STAB Crunch and Dark Pulse, respectively to put down Lugia, although the former risks being outstalled by Reflect and Toxic. Kyogre and Zekrom carry mighty Water- and Electric-type STAB attacks that are just too powerful for Lugia to handle. Blissey also compeltely walls Lugia and can outstall it with Toxic while laughing at Lugia's attemps to hurt it. Reshiram, although it dislikes Calm Mind variants, can come in and roast Lugia alive with Blue Fire provided the weather is sunlight sunny. Heatran is in a similar position. Although it fears Earth Power or Earthquake much more than Reshiram, it doesn't care about Toxic and can even Taunt Lugia to stop it from healing itself.</p>

<p>Toxic absolutely ruins Lugia's walling abilities, so simple hitting it with the debilitating Poison-type move will leave it crippled and nearly useless. Stealth Rock also isn't fun for Lugia either. Losing 25% HP on every switch-in really messes up Lugia's ability to take hits.</p>

[Dream World]

<p>The Dream World has bestowed upon Lugia the ability Multiscale. Provided Lugia is at full HP, it will received halved damage from all attacks. Provided you can keep Stealth Rock away as even 1 HP of damage ruins the effect, Lugia can easily abuse this ability in conjunction with its high Speed stat and Recover (Multiscale and Roost form an illegal combination) to become even more difficult to take down and capable of taking even STAB super effective strikes.</p>
Add
Remove
 
The Speed EV spread isn't right. 234 Speed EVs means Lugia Speed Ties with Terrakion. It should be 236 Speed EVs.

PS: Aren't you adding the Speed Shuffler set?

EDIT: Jolly Lugia sucks :D use Bold, for DD Rayquaza, Groudon, Extremekiller Arceus, Giratina-O, Bulk Up Dialga, Choice Scarf Garchomp/Terrakion, Gyarados and HO-OH!
 
There's not really a mention of substitute on any of the sets except for the sub calm mind one. Substitute with conjunction of Dragon Tail and Pressure actually allows Lugia to become basically one of the best Blissey/Chansey checks in the game. You basically set up a sub in front of the fat blob while it uses toxic and either stall out its Seismic Tosses or phase it out. Substitute also allows Lugia to not be affected by any hits, allowing the beast of the sea to basically become even more annoying than it already is.

Edit - Sub also blocks Ferrothorn's leech seed (I think it still does) and allows Lugia to stall him out as well.
 
Working on top of Berserker Lord's proofread:

Deletions
Additions / Corrections
Comments


[Overview]

<p>Lugia's massive defenses and base 110 Speed allow it to wall and outstall a significant amount of threats in the Uber metagame, including while also being one of the few counters to the dreaded Extremekiller Arceus. This beast is able to take both physical and special hits like a champ, enabling Lugia to shut down many of the mixed attackers that otherwise threaten Uber stall teams. Although it now has to compete with Arceus, who has similar defenses, but much better offenses, Lugia still most boasts many advantages that make it a fine choice for any Uber stall team, its only true faults being its middling offenses and weakness to Stealth Rock.</p>

[SET]
name: Great Wall
move 1: Roost
move 2: Reflect
move 3: Dragon Tail / Ice Beam
move 4: Toxic / Whirlwind / Earthquake
item: Leftovers
nature: Jolly / Impish
evs: 252 HP / 24 Def / 234 Spe

[Set Comments]

<p>Lugia's defenses are very tough to crack, so it is well suited to being a physical wall. With the listed combination of moves, it can function as an very good excellent counter to some of the top threats in the Ubers metagame, including, but not limited to Groudon, Rayquaza, Garchomp, Extremekiller Arceus, Giratina-O, and certain sets of Palkia and Dialga with great ease. It also gets Leftovers, an immunity to Spikes and Toxic Spikes, and Dragon Tail to set it apart from Arceus, who appears to outclass Lugia at first glance due to possessing similar defenses, but much better offenses.</p>

<p>Roost is Lugia's most important move. It provides reliable healing while cancelling out its weaknesses to Rock-, Electric-, and Ice-type attacks for a turn, which Lugia can often take advantage of due to his its great Speed stat. Reflect allows Lugia to bolster its Defense stat to counter physical sweepers more efficiently. Dragon Tail is a great move for Lugia, allowing it to strike at Dragon-type Pokemon for solid damage while forcing any Pokemon that is not behind a Substitute out of play.</p>

<p>Lugia has several good options for the last moveslot. Toxic is probably the best, as it allows Lugia to whittle away at opponents such as Groudon while focusing on keeping its own HP high with Roost. Whirlwind is still an option to reliably phaze away Pokemon that rely on Substitute, such as Shaymin-S. If Whirlwind is being used, Ice Beam can be run to help deal more damage to the likes of Rayquaza and Garchomp as well as Groudon. However, Dragon Tail is usually superior as it fulfills the role of both Ice Beam and Whirlwind, opening up a moveslot for Lugia. Earthquake also allows Lugia to strike at Zekrom, Heatran, and Reshiram switch-ins, all of which are key stallbreakers, so weakening them as fast as possible can often make or break a stall team be a game-changer.</p>

<p>The EVs enable Lugia to outspeed everything slower than Terrakion (including the standard Extremekiller Arceus), while providing the best possible physical bulk. However, one can use a spread of 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SpD with an Impish nature to further enhance Lugia's ability to stomach physical attacks - for example, a Lugia with that EV spread can never be OHKOed by an once Dragon Danced Life Orb-boosted Outrage from Life Orb Rayquaza at +1 Atk after Stealth Rock damage. The Special Defense EVs also ensure that Lugia can never be 2HKOed by an unboosted Thunder from Timid Palkia, factoring in Leftovers. Make sure to use a Timid (or Bold) nature if running Ice Beam so as to not gimp its power.</p>

[Additional Comments]

<p>Toxic is probably Lugia's biggest hindrance, as is Stealth Rock. The former renders Lugia incapable of walling anything due to the ever-increasing poison damage, whilst the latter slices 25% of Lugia HP away every time it switches in. Thankfully, Forretress is immune to Toxic and can also make use of Rapid Spin to clear Stealth Rock from the field, giving Lugia more freedom in switching in to absorb blows. Forretress is also capable of setting up entry hazards to help weaken foes alongside Whirlwind and Dragon Tail. Cleric support from the likes of Blissey is also great in making sure Toxic doesn't cripple Lugia.</p>

<p>Darkrai is an enormous problem for Lugia. Dark Void will block Lugia's attempts to phaze it out by lulling it to sleep, giving Darkrai a chance to nail a boost with Nasty Plot obtain a Nasty Plot before ending destroying Lugia with Dark Pulse. Tyranitar and Magnezone also completely wall Lugia without Earthquake, and can easily cut it down using Stone Edge or Thunder, respectively. Lugia is also completely incapable of doing anything to Blissey, who can just Toxic cripple Lugia with Toxic and sit there until it succumbs to the debilitating poison. Wobbuffet can trap Lugia with Shadow Tag and turn it into setup fodder using Encore. Forretress and Ferrothorn can also come in and set up whatever they want on Lugia, since it can't really hurt them. Finally, very powerful attackers such as Kyogre and Zekrom usually pack super effective Electric-type attacks to annihilate Lugia. Groudon handles Zekrom and Magnezone with ease thanks to its immunity to Electric-type attacks and great defenses, and the sunlight it brings with it via Drought makes Thunder less of a worry to Lugia. Tyranitar and Blissey also have little hope of getting through Groudon. Fighting Arceus, with its impressive defenses, handles Darkrai, Tyranitar, and Ferrothorn very well, and is capable of using Forretress as setup bait. Palkia can come in on Kyogre with ease and blast it away with Thunder, and it can also use a mixed set to help lure in and take out Wobbuffet.</p>

[SET]
name: Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Thunder / Earth Power / Whirlwind
move 4: Roost
item: Leftovers
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 24 Def / 234 Spe

[Set Comments]

<p>Although one may view Calm Mind Lugia as outclassed by Arceus, who is faster and boasts better offenses, this is not the case. Lugia, unlike most of the Arceus formes, can hold Leftovers. Combine this with Add on Pressure and immunity to Spikes and Toxic Spikes, and Lugia can still function very well as a capable user of Calm Mind, able to set up and potentially sweep while remaining a very usable wall.</p>

<p>Ice Beam is Lugia's main attack on this set. Although Lugia's base Special Attack is mediocre, Ice Beam will still do plenty of damage after a few Calm Mind boosts, and the super effective coverage it has on Dragon-types is a huge plus. Thunder zaps Kyogre and Manaphy for good damage while getting a decent smack on Steel-type Pokemon. It also forms the infamous BoltBeam combo. Earth Power, on the other hand, blasts Heatran and Magnezone to pieces while landing a solid smack on Tyranitar. Either way, both moves have great type coverage when paired with Ice Beam. Whirlwind or Dragon Tail can also be used to stop other Calm Mind users from setting up on Lugia, if one is willing to forgo the added type coverage.</p>

[Additional Comments]

<p>In addition to being hampered by all of the Pokemon that trouble the previous set, other Calm Mind users, such as Kyogre and certain types of Arceus formes (Dark, Electric, Ice, Ghost, and Rock) can easily beat Lugia one on one due to their better type matchup or offensive stats. Blissey can handle most kinds of Calm Mind Arceus with ease thanks to Toxic. Calm Mind Kyogre is easily dealt with by Zekrom and Grass Arceus thanks to their powerful super effective STAB moves and resistance to Water-type attacks. Forretress can also set up Toxic Spikes, which greatly hampers most of this set's counters by putting them on a timer, so they won't be able to hurt Lugia much.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Since Garchomp and Groudon will pretty much never switch into it, Thunder Wave is an excellent support move for Lugia. It can help slow the opponent's sweepers and revenge killers, paving the way for a slow Pokemon such as Groudon to sweep. Light Screen amps up Lugia's Special Defense stat even more, making it nigh impossible to break with special attacks. Rest + Sleep Talk can be used for status protection, but due to the changed sleep mechanics (the sleep counters resets every turn) and the fact Roost is generally superior, it simply isn't worth it. Safeguard is also an option to give Lugia status protection and support the team. Lugia can make 101 HP Substitutes;, which, when combined with Psycho Shock and Calm Mind, it can enable Lugia to defeat Blissey one on one. Shed Shell can be used as an alternative item choice to stop Wobbuffet from turning Lugia into setup bait with Shadow Tag. Weather Ball combined with sunlight allows Lugia to fry Forretress and Ferrothorn, which is very useful as otherwise, they can use Lugia as setup bait. Finally, Aeroblast is Lugia's strongest STAB move, but it really isn't useful for anything in particular.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Dark-types such as Darkrai and Tyranitar are generally good answers to Lugia. It can't really hurt either aside from Toxic, while Tyranitar and Darkrai carry STAB Crunch and Dark Pulse, respectively, to put down Lugia, although the former risks being outstalled by Reflect and Toxic. Kyogre and Zekrom carry mighty Water- and Electric-type STAB attacks that are just too powerful for Lugia to handle. Blissey also completely walls Lugia and can outstall it with Toxic while laughing at Lugia's attemps to hurt it. Reshiram, although it dislikes Calm Mind variants, can come in and roast Lugia alive with Blue Fire provided the weather is sunlight sunny. Heatran is in a similar position. Although it fears Earth Power or Earthquake much more than Reshiram, it doesn't care about Toxic and can even Taunt Lugia to stop it from healing itself.</p>

<p>Toxic absolutely ruins Lugia's walling abilities, so simply hitting it with the debilitating Poison-type move will leave it crippled and nearly useless. Stealth Rock also isn't fun for Lugia either. Losing 25% HP on every switch-in really messes up Lugia's ability to take hits.</p>

[Dream World]

<p>The Dream World has bestowed upon Lugia the ability MultiScale. Provided Lugia is at full HP, it will received halved damage from all attacks. Provided you can keep Stealth Rock away as even 1 HP of damage ruins the effect, Lugia can easily abuse this ability in conjunction with its high Speed stat and Recover (MultiScale and Roost form an illegal combination) to become make it even more difficult to take down and capable of taking even STAB super effective strikes.</p>





GP 1 / 2
 

Fireburn

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-Implemented Calm Pokemaster's and Berserker Lord's combined check.

-Elaborated more on Substitute's mention in the Other Options section.

-Fixed the Speed EVs.

As for trickroom's suggestions about the SpeedShuffler set and making Bold/Impish the primary option on the Great Wall set, I want to hear more opinions from Quality Control. (A.k.a Jibaku, firecape, GreatSage.).

I also want to see some logs of the SpeedShuffler in action.
 
-Implemented Calm Pokemaster's and Berserker Lord's combined check.

-Elaborated more on Substitute's mention in the Other Options section.

-Fixed the Speed EVs.

As for trickroom's suggestions about the SpeedShuffler set and making Bold/Impish the primary option on the Great Wall set, I want to hear more opinions from Quality Control. (A.k.a Jibaku, firecape, GreatSage.).

I also want to see some logs of the SpeedShuffler in action.
Actually Fireburn, the speed EVs on Jolly Lugia should be 240, which gives him 347 speed, as 236 EVs only gives Lugia 346 speed, tying with Terrakion. The last thing you want to do with a fast walling Lugia is tie with one of the threats it's trying to stall out. This would give Lugia around 16 Defense EVs to spare, giving Lugia 300 defense.
 

Fireburn

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is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Actually Fireburn, the speed EVs on Jolly Lugia should be 240, which gives him 347 speed, as 236 EVs only gives Lugia 346 speed, tying with Terrakion. The last thing you want to do with a fast walling Lugia is tie with one of the threats it's trying to stall out. This would give Lugia around 16 Defense EVs to spare, giving Lugia 300 defense.
Oops, I'll fix it.
 

Aeron Ee1

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is a Top Contributor Alumnus
Changes in bold
Removals in red
Comments in bold red

[Overview]

<p>Lugia's massive defenses and base 110 Speed allow it to wall and outstall a significant amount of threats in the Uber metagame, while also being one of the few counters to the dreaded Extreme Killer Arceus. This beast is able to take both physical and special hits like a champ, enabling Lugia to shutting down many of the mixed attackers that otherwise threaten Uber stall teams. Although it now has to compete with Arceus, who has similar defenses(backspace), but much better offenses, Lugia still boasts many advantages that make it a fine choice for any Uber stall team, its only true faults being its middling offenses and weakness to Stealth Rock.</p>

[SET]
name: Great Wall
move 1: Roost
move 2: Reflect
move 3: Dragon Tail / Ice Beam
move 4: Toxic / Whirlwind / Earthquake
item: Leftovers
nature: Jolly / Impish
evs: 252 HP / 16 Def / 240 Spe

[Set Comments]

<p>Lugia's defenses are very tough to crack, so it is well suited to being a physical wall. With the listed combination of moves, it can function as an excellent counter to some of the top threats in the Uber metagame, including, but not limited to Groudon, Rayquaza, Garchomp, Normal Arceus, Giratina-O, and certain sets of Palkia and Dialga. It also gets Leftovers, an immunity to Spikes and Toxic Spikes, and Dragon Tail to set it apart from Arceus, who appears to outclass Lugia at first glance with its similar defenses, but much better offenses.</p>

<p>Roost is Lugia's most important move. It provides reliable healing while cancelling out its weaknesses to Rock-, Electric-, and Ice-type attacks for a turn, which Lugia can often take advantage of due to its great Speed stat. Reflect allows Lugia to bolster its Defense stat to counter physical sweepers more efficiently. Dragon Tail is a great move for Lugia, allowing it to strike at Dragon-type Pokemon for solid damage while forcing any Pokemon that is not behind a Substitute out of play.</p>

<p>Lugia has several good options for the last moveslot. Toxic is probably the best(backspace), as it allows Lugia to whittle away at opponents such as Groudon while focusing on keeping its own HP high with Roost. Whirlwind is still an option to reliably phaze away Pokemon that rely on Substitute, such as Shaymin-S. If Whirlwind is being used, Ice Beam can be run to help deal more damage to the likes of Rayquaza and Garchomp as well as Groudon. However, Dragon Tail is usually superior as it fulfills the role of both Ice Beam and Whirlwind, opening up a moveslot for Lugia. Earthquake also allows Lugia to strike at Zekrom, Heatran, and Reshiram switch-ins, all of which are key stallbreakers, so weakening them as fast as possible can be a game-changer.</p>

[Additional Comments]

<p>The EVs enable Lugia to outspeed everything slower than Terrakion (including the standard Extreme Killer Arceus)(backspace), while providing the best possible physical bulk. However, one can use a spread of 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SpD with an Impish nature to further enhance Lugia's ability to stomach physical attacks - for example, a Lugia with that EV spread can never be OHKOed by an Life Orb-boosted Outrage from Rayquaza at +1 Atk after Stealth Rock damage. The Special Defense EVs also ensure that Lugia can never be 2HKOed by an unboosted Thunder from Timid Palkia, factoring in Leftovers. Make sure to use a Timid (or Bold) nature if running Ice Beam so as to not gimp its power.</p>

[Additional Comments]

<p>Toxic is probably Lugia's biggest hindrance, followed closely by Stealth Rock. The former renders Lugia incapable of walling anything due to the ever-increasing poison damage, whilst the latter slices 25% of Lugia HP away every time it switches in. Thankfully, Forretress is immune to Toxic and can also make use of Rapid Spin to clear Stealth Rock from the field, giving Lugia more freedom in switching in to absorb blows. Forretress is also capable of setting up entry hazards to help weaken foes alongside Whirlwind and Dragon Tail. Cleric support from the likes of Blissey is also great in making sure Toxic doesn't cripple Lugia.</p>

<p>Darkrai is an enormous problem for Lugia. Dark Void will block Lugia's attempts to phaze it out by lulling it to sleep, giving Darkrai a chance to obtain a Nasty Plot before destroying Lugia with Dark Pulse. Tyranitar and Magnezone also completely wall Lugia without Earthquake, and can easily cut it down using Stone Edge or Thunder, respectively. Lugia is also completely incapable of doing anything to Blissey, who can just cripple Lugia with Toxic and sit there until it succumbs to the debilitating poison. Wobbuffet can trap Lugia with Shadow Tag and turn it into setup fodder using Encore. Forretress and Ferrothorn can also come in and set up whatever they want on Lugia, since it can't really hurt them. Finally, very powerful attackers such as Kyogre and Zekrom usually pack super effective Electric-type attacks to annihilate Lugia. Groudon handles Zekrom and Magnezone with ease thanks to its immunity to Electric-type attacks and great defenses, and the sunlight it brings with it makes Thunder less of a worry to Lugia. Tyranitar and Blissey also have little hope of getting through Groudon. Fighting Arceus, with its impressive defenses, handles Darkrai, Tyranitar, and Ferrothorn very well, and is capable of using Forretress as setup bait. Palkia can come in on Kyogre with ease and blast it away with Thunder, and it can also use a mixed set to lure in and take out Wobbuffet.</p>

[SET]
name: Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Thunder / Earth Power / Whirlwind
move 4: Roost
item: Leftovers
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 16 Def / 240 Spe

[Set Comments]

<p>Although one may view Calm Mind Lugia as outclassed by Arceus, who is faster and boasts better offenses, but this is simply not the case. Lugia, unlike most of the Arceus formes, can hold Leftovers. Add on Pressure and an immunity to Spikes and Toxic Spikes(backspace), and Lugia can still function very well as a capable user of Calm Mind, able to set up and potentially sweep while remaining a very usable wall.</p>

<p>Ice Beam is Lugia's main attack on this set. Although Lugia's Special Attack is mediocre, Ice Beam will still do plenty of damage after a few Calm Mind boosts, and the super effective coverage it has on Dragon-types is a huge plus. Thunder zaps Kyogre and Manaphy for good damage while getting a decent smack on Steel-type Pokemon. It also forms the infamous BoltBeam combo with Thunder. Earth Power, on the other hand, blasts Heatran and Magnezone to pieces while landing a solid smack on Tyranitar. Either way, both moves have great type coverage when paired with Ice Beam. Whirlwind or Dragon Tail can also be used to stop other Calm Mind users from setting up on Lugia, if one is willing to forgo the added type coverage.</p>

[Additional Comments]

<p>In addition to being hampered by all of the Pokemon that trouble the previous set, other Calm Mind users, such as the (space)Arceus formes (Dark, Electric, Ice, Ghost, and Rock), (comma) can easily beat Lugia one on one due to their better type matchup or offensive stats. Blissey can handle most kinds of Calm Mind Arceus with ease thanks to Toxic. Calm Mind Kyogre is easily dealt with by Zekrom and Grass Arceus thanks to their powerful super effective STAB moves and resistance to Water-type attacks. Forretress can also set up Toxic Spikes, which greatly hampers most of this set's counters by putting them on a timer (which is especially useful against Kyogre and certain (what?)), so they won't be able to bother Lugia as much anymore.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Since Garchomp and Groudon will pretty much never switch into it, Thunder Wave is an excellent support move for Lugia. It can help slow the opponent's sweepers and revenge killers, paving the way for a slow Pokemon such as Groudon to sweep. Light Screen amps up Lugia's Special Defense even more, making it nigh impossible to break with special attacks. Rest + Sleep Talk can be used for status protection, but due to the changed sleep mechanics (the sleep counter resets every time you switch out) and the fact Roost is generally superior, it simply isn't worth it. Safeguard is also an option to give Lugia status protection and support the team. Lugia can make 101 HP Substitutes, which, when combined with Psycho Shock and Calm Mind or Dragon Tail, can enable Lugia to defeat Blissey one on one. Substitute also blocks Ferrothorn's Leech Seed, aids in Pressure stalling, and makes Lugia into a fine Toxic staller. However, Substitute is generally a lesser options as Lugia suffers from four moveslot syndrome enough already. Shed Shell can be used as an alternative item choice to stop Wobbuffet from turning Lugia into setup bait. Weather Ball combined with sunlight allows Lugia to fry Forretress and Ferrothorn, which is very useful as otherwise, they can use Lugia as setup bait. Finally, Aeroblast is Lugia's strongest STAB move, but it really isn't useful for anything in particular.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Dark-types such as Darkrai and Tyranitar are generally good answers to Lugia, as it can't really hurt either aside from Toxic, while Tyranitar and Darkrai carry STAB Crunch and Dark Pulse(backspace), respectively, to put down Lugia, although the former risks being outstalled by Reflect and Toxic. Kyogre and Zekrom carry mighty Water- and Electric-type STAB attacks that are just too powerful for Lugia to handle. Blissey also completely walls Lugia and can outstall it with Toxic while laughing at Lugia's attemps to hurt it. Reshiram, although it dislikes Calm Mind variants, can come in and roast Lugia alive with Blue Fire provided the weather is sunny. Heatran is in a similar position. Although it fears Earth Power and Earthquake much more than Reshiram, it doesn't care about Toxic and can even Taunt Lugia to stop it from healing itself.</p>

<p>Toxic absolutely ruins Lugia's walling abilities, so simply hitting it with the debilitating Poison-type move will leave it crippled and near useless. Stealth Rock also isn't fun for Lugia either. Losing 25% HP on every switch-in really messes up Lugia's ability to take hits.</p>

[Dream World]

<p>The Dream World has bestowed upon Lugia the ability Multiscale. Provided Lugia is at full HP, it will received halved damage from all attacks. Provided you can keep Stealth Rock away, Lugia can easily abuse this ability in conjunction with its high Speed stat and Recover (Multiscale and Roost form an illegal combination) to make it even more difficult to take down and capable of taking even STAB super effective attacks.</p>


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