In-Game Tier List Discussion

[IOS]

I agree with this list with two exceptions. Tepig is outclassed by darumaka as others have said and I think that deerling deserves another look. You get it early enough to be worth training and it has a very nice stat distribution. More importantly, as powerful as darmanitan and excadrill are they share both water and ground weaknesses, which means a team with both of them really wants a grass type to absorb hits. Sawsbuck has the bulk to take resisted hits without any problems and has great offensive capabilities compared to the other grass types you can choose from. 100 base attack with grass/fighting/electric coverage is pretty awesome and complements the other top end pokemon perfectly.

I'm considering dropping Tepig from the list, yes. However, I've tested Deerling and I cannot see it in high. For one it comes late (after the fifth gym) and it takes a bit of tedious training to get up to par. It has no real reliable offensive moves outside of Jump Kick (which isn't even STAB, and is a 2-3HKO against most trainer Pokemon for awhile) until Level 37. Sure it gets Energy Ball, but it goes off of its awful special attack. Takedown is very risky considering deer's frailness, and normal is a meh offensive type due to not being effective against anything.

Sure it improves once you get Horn Leech, but also consider how poorly it does in the gyms ahead. Flying, Ice, Dragon, Deerling gets destroyed by everything. For these reasons, I can't really it above Upper Mid/Mid.

imo, Cottonee should not be high or top, and at most should be at Upper Mid. It has utility, but Ingame is all about sweeping the opponents as quickly as possible. But I wouldn't complain too much if it was put there. These are the ones who show sweeping ability above the rest and have come early enough to boot: Archen, Axew, Darumaka, Drilbur, Deerling, Joltik, Oshawott, Petilil, Sawk, Sandile, Scraggy, Sigilyph, Tepig, Tirtouga, and Timburr. Out of these, right now 6 are in top, 3 are in high, 3 are in Upper-Mid, and 3 are in Mid. (And if you really want Cottonee, it is in Low iirc.)

Cottonee is pretty much there just for Prankster. I haven't used it extensively though, so I could see it dropping to Upper Mid.

Of the Pokemon you listed in your "sweeping list", Axew definitely isn't above Upper Mid. Comes too late, spending too much time not evolved and does poorly against both gyms.

Petilil is incredibly overrated just because of Butterfly Dance. Grass is a very poor offensive type due to how many Pokemon resist it, and that is literally all it learns (look at its movepool!). A Pokemon without any sort of flexibility is not top/high.

Tirtouga is also a Pokemon I can see in Upper Mid. Inferior to Archen at everything, and its stats are flat out bad until it evolves at Lvl 37. That period of mediocrity is too long for high.

Timburr is completely outclassed by Sawk, but its a Pokemon I'm looking into. Seems to be solid if you can trade it so I'll consider it being in high. I'll fiddle around with him first.

So I'll repost the list:


Archen, Cottonee, Darkumaka, Drillbur, Joltik, Lillipup, Oshawatt, Sandile, Sawk, Scraggy, Sigilyph, Timburr and Tepig

Italics means they're possibly dropping out. Bold means they're possibly being put in. I'm in the process of PM'ing Colonel_M about all this and I believe he'll have the final say. Then we'll move to the other tiers.

 

[Stellar]

I'm considering dropping Tepig from the list, yes. However, I've tested Deerling and I cannot see it in high. For one it comes late (after the fifth gym) and it takes a bit of tedious training to get up to par. It has no real reliable offensive moves outside of Jump Kick (which isn't even STAB, and is a 2-3HKO against most trainer Pokemon for awhile) until Level 37. Sure it gets Energy Ball, but it goes off of its awful special attack. Takedown is very risky considering deer's frailness, and normal is a meh offensive type due to not being effective against anything.

Sure it improves once you get Horn Leech, but also consider how poorly it does in the gyms ahead. Flying, Ice, Dragon, Deerling gets destroyed by everything. For these reasons, I can't really it above Upper Mid/Mid.

If we are being technical, it comes after the 4th gym. Route 6 is accessible before Cold Storage / Gym 5. You can also buy Return for 10,000P if you want a "reliable offensive move."

Of the Pokemon you listed in your "sweeping list", Axew definitely isn't above Upper Mid. Comes too late, spending too much time not evolved and does poorly against both gyms.

This is completely false. Axew / Fraxure / Haxorus have always been the stars of the ~four times I've played through with them. In just my last playthrough, Fraxure / Haxorus solo'd the Ice and Dragon gyms (yes, Ice!). You get Axew at 30-31 with Dragon Claw and it gets Dragon Dance at 32. It evolves only 7-8 levels after you capture it which isn't terrible at all. It can 6-0 both N and Ghetsis after a Dragon Dance. One of the best Pokémon in the game, hands down. You seem to be forgetting that Axew has 87 base Attack while Fraxure has 117.

 

[voodoo pimp]

You can also buy Return for 10,000P if you want a "reliable offensive move."

Return isn't much good for something you just caught, unless you want to spend hours raising its happiness first.

 

[IOS]

If we are being technical, it comes after the 4th gym. Route 6 is accessible before Cold Storage / Gym 5. You can also buy Return for 10,000P if you want a "reliable offensive move."

Still too little, too late. I did use Return on Deerling, which was a worse offensive move then Jump Kick despite having STAB. Return doesn't just start off at 102 power like in online battle simulators.

This is completely false. Axew / Fraxure / Haxorus have always been the stars of the ~four times I've played through with them. In just my last playthrough, Fraxure / Haxorus solo'd the Ice and Dragon gyms (yes, Ice!). You get Axew at 30-31 with Dragon Claw and it gets Dragon Dance at 32. It evolves only 7-8 levels after you capture it which isn't terrible at all. It can 6-0 both N and Ghetsis after a Dragon Dance. One of the best Pokémon in the game, hands down. You seem to be forgetting that Axew has 87 base Attack while Fraxure has 117.

Cool story bro. Terrible availability, having to go out of your way to get it, and a forced period of training does not make a high tier Pokemon. Upper Mid is much more reasonable.

 

[ironman]

does anyone else think that scraggy is a bit too low in the list?i mean you can get him before the 3rd gym,it learns brick break and payback a little bit after you catch him(lvl 20 and 23) and most importantly it gets hi jump kick at lvl 31!!!
i have used him and hi jump kick literally ohkos or 2hkos almost anything in the game(even resistors)!!!also both of its abilities are great in-game, moxie only helps you murder things faster, shed skin is really useful to avoid using many status healers(i remember so many times that poison couldn't do anything to me)...
it was definitely one of my most important members,seconding only to ganvandula( the charge beam/thunder/compound eyes combo is legendary)...
also the e4, apart from the fighting type user, get completely raped by scrafty, hitting the rest 3 members with super-effective stab attacks...i am not saying it is perfect(sure it has problems against the 4th gym leader with the emolgas, but who hasn't) but is a bit underestimated...

 

[Jackle]

I think you are understating Emolga's usefulness. While certainly not an all star, Electric / Flying is very good in-game coverage with the large number of Flying / Fighting / Grass / Bug / Water-type Pokémon. Despite its low base 75 Attack, Acrobatics gives it a base 195 attack after STAB. It can also use Thunder Wave / Electro Ball for a base 225 Electric attack or simply just go with Thunderbolt / Discharge. I used it in my last play through and it was surprisingly good.

This. Emolga should be higher up--at least mid, not low mid. It may take a few repels to get, and comes in just after the 3d gym, but as the only non-legendary flying/electric type with the same ATK as serperior and two extremely powerful moves (See quote), it just flat out kills everything...I know, I have one.

Also note it's dream world ability will make it even more worth a spot when Grey comes out--immunity to a common attack type like electric is awesome, the speed boost is gravy.

 

[Sajak]

Has anyone tried Chandelure out? I'm considering using it on my second run, but I'm not sure if it will be any good (especially considering the end game). I'd like to not use the same Pokemon again (Darmanitan), so opinions would be nice.

 

[Ducklett Stare]

does anyone else think that scraggy is a bit too low in the list?i mean you can get him before the 3rd gym,it learns brick break and payback a little bit after you catch him(lvl 20 and 23) and most importantly it gets hi jump kick at lvl 31!!!
i have used him and hi jump kick literally ohkos or 2hkos almost anything in the game(even resistors)!!!also both of its abilities are great in-game, moxie only helps you murder things faster, shed skin is really useful to avoid using many status healers(i remember so many times that poison couldn't do anything to me)...
it was definitely one of my most important members,seconding only to ganvandula( the charge beam/thunder/compound eyes combo is legendary)...
also the e4, apart from the fighting type user, get completely raped by scrafty, hitting the rest 3 members with super-effective stab attacks...i am not saying it is perfect(sure it has problems against the 4th gym leader with the emolgas, but who hasn't) but is a bit underestimated...

Seconding the Scrafty love. He was pretty much my MVP the whole game. Before he evolved, I gave him an Eviolite to hold, and he was unstoppable for the early game. I was wary about using HJK at first, because I tend to be a more conservative battler, but the sheer STAB power made me teach it to my Scrafty; I didn't regret it, he mows through entire teams, and I only remember it missing once from the point he learned it until after I beat the main game. I expected him to decimate the Elite 4, getting super effective STAB on 3 of the 4 -- however, you have to be careful because a lot of their Pokemon carry Focus Blast/flying type moves to cover their weaknesses. Otherwise, I highly recommend Scrafty. He's got great STABs, surprising bulk, and he just looks like a fucking boss. Very well could be one of my favorites for the whole gen.

 

[prospector tony]

scraggy has been working wonders for me too. he is basically a full-stop to most psychic or dark types (except other scraggy) which is quite useful.

 

[ironman]

Has anyone tried Chandelure out? I'm considering using it on my second run, but I'm not sure if it will be any good (especially considering the end game). I'd like to not use the same Pokemon again (Darmanitan), so opinions would be nice.

sajak on my first run i used both chandelure and darmanitan....what i have to say is that even though chandelure has insane special attack,it is really useful only against 7th gym...didn't do anything against e4 and in N's castle...at least darmanitan hits with the same power from the physical side and has a nice speed stat, outspeeding most things...actually after N's castle i placed chandelure in the box and replaced it with braviary-lvl 60 at double grass(a pain to catch though due to whirlwind) and darmanitan is still a key member...when i do a second run i will just level up something else(maybe axew or deerling) instead of the litwick line...

 

[Kindrindra]

I would say Archeos (Aaken) should be moved to Top Teir. You can get him right after the third Gym, and, almost immediately after obtaining him, he learns Acrobatics, which, as said earlier, has base 195 power after STAB is you are not holding an item. And then there's his movepool. He learns, like, everything. I'm not even joking. Defeatist can be a problem, but due to his high speed, if the opponent does survive his attack and knock him into defeatist range, he can still finish them off, and retains the power to 2-3HKO just about every other pokemon, especially after evolution.

 

[Sajak]

sajak on my first run i used both chandelure and darmanitan....what i have to say is that even though chandelure has insane special attack,it is really useful only against 7th gym...didn't do anything against e4 and in N's castle...at least darmanitan hits with the same power from the physical side and has a nice speed stat, outspeeding most things...actually after N's castle i placed chandelure in the box and replaced it with braviary-lvl 60 at double grass(a pain to catch though due to whirlwind) and darmanitan is still a key member...when i do a second run i will just level up something else(maybe axew or deerling) instead of the litwick line...

That's what I figured, considering his typing. Thanks for the input.

 

[chocolate-kipp]

Scraggy for top and Sewaddle for mid-high imo. You find Scraggy in the route after Castelia which is early, it gets great moves practically just after being captured, and if you get a Moxie one you're pretty much set for the entire game.

I caught Sewaddle expecting it to be really weak and needing a lot of time to level up and evolve, but before it evolved it still hit pretty hard. After it evolved it ended up being my second strongest Pokemon and it still is right now. I actually used Swadloon to beat Burgh's Leavanny with ease, despite being three levels lower at the time.

Then again, I still haven't beaten the fourth gym, so they might lose a lot of their usefulness after Elesa, I dunno.

 

[Scarlet Spyder]

I've played through the entire game with Sewaddle and towards the end I didn't like it as much. Scraggy, however, remains useful throughout the entire playthrough and it's typing is amazing against the Elite Four. High Tier for Scraggy for sure, but not quite top. Sewaddle takes a little bit too much effort, in my opinion.

 

[AriadosPerson]

At this time of writing, my Carracosta has recently evolved, and I have just defeated Iccirus City Gym (though Carracosta did not partake in the Gym Battle, because Emboar is so awesomesauce it only needs four moves to win). All strategies or anecdotes I post are truthful.

Elesa specialises in Electric types, which just happen to hit Tirtouga for SE. Volt Switch hits his shitty 45 SpD, so have fun surviving. Also, parahax from Emolga's Static. You'll love it (not!)

You have five other slots available on your team. Devote one to Eviolite Sandile.

Tirtouga comes at Lv. 25, meaning he can go without training in Elesa's Gym without falling behind.

Tirtouga is also a Pokemon I can see in Upper Mid. Inferior to Archen at everything, and its stats are flat out bad until it evolves at Lvl 37. That period of mediocrity is too long for high.

Tirtouga has the advantage over Archen in that it doesn't worry about taking hits, as they don't hurt and it's no Defeatist. Ancientpower/Crunch plus Aqua Jet will kill most things in two hits, and all three moves are known by it when you revive it. Wide Guard can be replaced with moves such as Bulldoze, Dig, Scald, and Surf. I wouldn't say it's better than Archen (if it were up to me, I wouldn't even compare them), but among Water typed Pokemon, it ranks among the best.

 

[thunderstone]

Having completed White; am starting to think about my Black team.

Thinking about:

Serperior
Swanna
Gigalith
Victini
Scrafty (will trade an egg over for drain punch)

And then either Druddigon or Haxorus, I can't decide which I prefer. I assume Haxorus is great in game, but does anyone have any experience with Druddigon?

On a side note, Crimgan is a way better name than Druddigon...

 

[Lucindril]

Has anyone tried Chandelure out? I'm considering using it on my second run, but I'm not sure if it will be any good (especially considering the end game). I'd like to not use the same Pokemon again (Darmanitan), so opinions would be nice.

Yep, used it on my first playthrough. It came a bit late, but I was able to evolve it into a Chandelure before moving on to Twist Mountain, just by leveling it up inside the Celestial Tower and against wild Audino, then Surfing to Mistralton Cave to get a Dusk Stone. Absolutely destroyed anything, but it really doesn't like being outsped, because any attack takes more than half of its HP. Also, having to use the weaker Flame Burst or unreliable Fire Blast as its main Fire move its unfortunate, but it still manages alright. It was great for me, but don't use something else that will perform better than it overall, or else it won't be worth it.

 

[Phadunk]

Fair for me. I won't complain TOO much if Cottonee is in High, but it doesn't seem like a top tier. As for Timburr, it is bulkier, stronger, and has a slightly weaker attack than Sawk (Close Combat>Hammer Arm) and learns Rock Throw by level up so can handle the second and third gyms relatively easily. I don't see how that is "completely outclassed." Tepig from what I hear is pretty good, but frail and slow. It has a decent movepool from what I hear, but it seems that Darmanitan is better by a large margin. I'm fine with it in High or Upper Mid. Lillipup only shines for a portion of the game (up until Burgh) and is nothing spectacular for the rest. But then again, Joltik only shines for a portion (after you get it, basically) and can't do anything for the rest (before you get it). So they should be about equal, Joltik maybe a bit better since stuff like Timburr can handle Lenora to Burgh pretty well. So no real problems, let's see how it goes.

You do realize this list doesn't really mean.. anything. Take a breather.

 

[TheSubwayMaster]

^ Sorry, did I offend you?

 

[boyofrito]

Would a team of

Serperior
Excadrill
Jellicent or Carracosta
Hydragon
Volcarona
Filler

Be considered good?

 

[TheSubwayMaster]

Hydreigon and Volcarona are the two worst Pokemon in the game. Just saying.

 

[Lucindril]

Would a team of

Serperior
Excadrill
Jellicent or Carracosta
Hydragon
Volcarona
Filler

Be considered good?

No.

...Okay, serious answer. The first three are fine, but you can't get Deino until Victory Road, and it is really hard to level up and evolve into its final stage, so Hydreigon isn't worth it unless you're extremely patient. As for Volcarona, its pre-evolution comes in an egg and somewhat late, and its stats suck for the most part at that point in the game, not to mention it evolves so late it's not even funny. Not worth it either, sadly.

 

[PlatinumDude]

Hydreigon and Volcarona are the two worst Pokemon in the game. Just saying.

That's not true. While Deino/Zweilous and Larvesta are a pain to level up to evolve, Hydreigon and Volcarona have good stats and movepools to make up for that

And to back up Lucindrill's post, Haxorus and Galvantula/Scolipede are suitable replacements for Hydreigon and Volcarona if you don't want to spend a lot of time grinding.

 

[Lucindril]

I highly recommend Galvantula, it saved me quite a few times throughout the game. I loved it. ^_^

Just for the record, how is Haxorus? Planning to use it on my second playthrough.

 

[TheSubwayMaster]

That's not true. While Deino/Zweilous and Larvesta are a pain to level up to evolve, Hydreigon and Volcarona have good stats and movepools to make up for that

And to back up Lucindrill's post, Haxorus and Galvantula/Scolipede are suitable replacements for Hydreigon and Volcarona if you don't want to spend a lot of time grinding.

But you need to go through extreme grinding (for Deino around twenty to thirty minutes assuming you train in Victory Road and for Larvesta around 40 minutes assuming you train where you catch it, I forget what it is called.) When you need >20 minutes just to make something remotely useful, it is BAD.