I Hate Losing!! The Blue Lagoon- My Lengthy RMT

Introduction


Hello and thanks for reading my RMT! This team is of course motivated by all of the losses I was so sick of. I would've liked to have laddered with it longer and give you a good ranking to verify the quality of this team, but I have some valid excuses. I have had dreadful luck while playing this team, crucial crits, consecutive misses, freezes etc. have held me back. This is by far the most thought I have ever put into a single team. If you're like me, sometimes you'll try to theorymon a team while you're on Facebook and type it down real quick, or open the Team Builder and plug in a combo of pokemon then try to synergize a team around them. This team was not built so hastily. I closed my computer, gave myself some free time, and took it to raw paper and pencil! It took hours of my free time over 3 days. Call me a loser if you want, the end result is too satisfying for me to care.

I ran a less refined but still thought out version of this team first which got me to the 60s in BW OU. At this point the only thing holding me back from going higher (**** hax) is my lack of willpower to go on a full on laddering run. It can be really discouraging and after a night I haven't got as far as I would've liked to. Im not the best player, but I believe in this team.


Team Building Process



These are two pokemon that started the team. The first observation you may want to make is that there is no weather. I am relying on old style offense here. The reason I picked these two is their unique combined ability- taking out that ferocious Ferrothorn+Slowbro/Jellicent+Gliscor core. Salamence was a Mix DD variant to lure in phyical walls like Slowbro and Hippo to drill them with a full power Meteor, or bluff mixed to lure in Jellicent. Swords Dance Lucario cleaned up the remains very well, not to mention these two cover each others weaknesses perfectly and can actually set up on the things revenging the other without any defensive investment, things like Azumarill and Conkeldurr can't revenge Luke at all, and Stone Edges/Ice Shards aren't hurting Luke.​


The next step I took was making it a four pokemon squad that I could bolt down and set in stone. In my original decently-refined version, the next two pokemon were Specially Bulky Forretress and Choice Band Swampert. Even though I absolutely love both of them, it couldn't last. Forretress wasn't the best Latios sponge and I did not want to run 3 steels, Tyranitar, or Ferrothorn.​

I decided on the support tactics this team would love most, and it included Rapid Spin+Spikes. Out of all the criteria, I came up with a list of 14 pokemon to compete for the next 2 solid slots. Metagross takes the cake as my ideal Latios counter, and it fills one other role I love. OHKO THAT STUPID MIXTAR LEAD!! Thats one of the reasons Swampert had been Banded. For the spinner I couldn't use Forry because running 3 steels is just.... meh. Not an exciting type for me. To see Cloyster's case look at its set.​


The next step was securing in a 5th solid slot. What did I need? At this point, I knew there was one pokemon I needed a hard counter for- Specs Rotom-W in the rain. I also needed a solid Electric resist, Thundurus counter, and a solid Water/Fire resistance to help cover Cloyster's special defense, which makes him even more lopsided defensively than Blissey. Gastrodon's water immunity, Recover, Water/Ground typing and the raw need for a Volcarona counter made it necessary over Quagsire. Its resists and bulk really helped out in making the (useful) compact defensive core I needed, I needed something to fit flawlessly in the team and serve a unique purpose, which you will see at his set.​



Suprising much? Yes, I actually changed both of my original members. Why? There was nothing to benefit from Lucario taking a big doggy doo doo on Pursuit users. Also, Mence didn't have the speed and power needed to simultaneously knock out what it needed to and keep no-sand Excadrill/Hydreigon/SD Haxorus in check. Yes, the dragons are usually Modest/Adamant respectively but I didn't want to risk it, as all of the 3 are enormous threats to my team. How did I change Lucario? I slotted Crunch over Ice Punch. Slowbro would no longer be tempted to come in on my Dragon and now that enough Gliscor have been Ice Punched by Luke to get the point that they're not fast anymore, Jellicent are coming in instead any my team wants to allow as little of that as possible.​

Whimsicott was added because I felt a Prankster and a further measure to take care of Jellicent was necessary. I chose it over Thundurus, because although it fills both of those needs, it won't last as long, and I saw tons of situations where Priority Encore would save my ass. Ferrothorn, the 100% counter to it is just an invitation for Lucario to come in. They are so predictable its hilarious!!! He could also fit the blue trend of my team I had just noticed. Anyway, this is the final product of 3 days of work, and some slight nitpicks.​

-This was done before Round 3 suspect testing was done, so I was reluctant to finish because Blaziken and Excadrill can really be a bother. Thankfully, Blaziken is gone and thats good enough for me!!​



The Blue Lagoon


Possible change-



-Espeon will be tested as a Magic Bounce SubPasser and Salamence as a Dragon Dancer with Draco Meteor. There's a deeper analysis in the threats/appealing solutions section.​


-This team gets its name of course from the common color of blue and the reminder of the vastness that is Pokemon. People may forget about Lucario, Cloyster, and Metagross in the raw depth of new threats and may be suprised to see new things these Pokemon can do. You cannot know what is happening is every inch of the water, which may seem small in measure but is actually millions of lbs. of raw, unseen mass.



Analysis


@ Choice Band
Ability- Clear Body
Nature- Adamant
EVs- 252 HP, 176 atk, 80 spD
-Stealth Rock
-Meteor Mash
-Hammer Arm
-Pursuit

Metagross tends to earn the lead slot as it did numerous times for me in Gen. 4, where it was the most solid, consistent lead I had used. It sets up Stealth Rock for me, which is obviously huge. Meteor Mash is its amazing STAB attack of course. Hammer Arm has become its new favorite coverage option, as it nails the Tyranitar while hitting idiotic Ferrothorn that think they can set up on this forgotten beast. It also nails Baloon pokemon such as Magnezone, Excadrill, and Heatran. Pursuit is for Latios and Reuniclus if it has been encored.

I have found Choice Band to be useful in the past for its incredible power to OHKO Latios, 2HKO Gliscor, do roughly 80% to Trick Room Reuniclus and even overpower Bulk Up Conkeldurr. Stealth Rock was OK a lot of the time because they could just switch in Slowbro scot free either way but some other times Ferrothorn would come in, and I love to just smack it for being so stupid. This team doesn't like having Metagross stuck on SR anyway because set up sweepers are incredibly threatening nowadays.​

After more testing, I have found Choice Band more useful, so ignore the Expert Belt mentions.
@ Leftovers
Ability- Storm Drain
Nature- Careful
EVs- 252 HP, 216 def, 40 spD
-Recover
-Earthquake/Yawn
-Rock Slide
-Hail

Gastrodon is the sturdiest part of the backbone of this team. He comes in Thundurus leads that may be taunting Metagross and laughs at them unless they use Grass Knot. It also laughs at any Rotom-W, who would be able to rape me royally if it used Hydro Pump in the rain- that's something even Latias wouldn't be switching into. It doesn't actually attack much in comparison to supporting the team. Earthquake tends to only see use on Heatran and unboosted Excadrill, while Rock Slide breaks Baloons and OHKOs offensive Volcarona, who would otherwise just destroy me.

Hail is the real unique selling point of this set. If the other weather inducer has been killed or im just really paranoid of Excadrill I fire off Hail. It usually puts me at an advantage by ruining the 3 common weathers and the fact that I run one Ice type immune to it compare to most teams that have none. A lot of times he is just a bulky pivot that sponges a hit and then switches out because if I leave him in he does the inverse of supporting me by giving grass types like Breloom, Celebi, and Ferrothorn free turns. For example, leaving him in on a Politoed could get me poisoned, slept, or set up on.

-Yawn is defenitely appealing. Sleep is so deadly and annoying in Gen 5 I defenitely have to give it a try. It also eases prediction so much because I currently have to be careful about keeping Gastrodon in lest he get set up on.
@ Leftovers

Ability- Skill Link
Nature- Relaxed
EVs- 252 HP, 216 def, 40 spA
-Spikes
-Icicle Spear
-Hydro Pump
-Rapid Spin

DEFENSIVE CLOYSTER?!! Its weak to SR and its outclassed!! Well, I don't mind if thats what you belive. Have you ever seen a Forretress hard counter Sub Garchomp, or better yet, anything? Cloyster also has even more physical defense than Forretress, which is quite an amazing feat- 304 HP and 495 defense. Its lop-sided defenses may seem to be a downside, but really it's only taking choiced Blizzards and I chose to omit Rock Blast anyway. Spikes is utility to help Draco Meteor really hit home and help Luke kill more physical walls. Icicle Spear is niche which is an absolute blessing for common Sub annoyers like Gliscor and Garchomp, even Focus Sash holders like Aerodactyl, OHKOing all of them. Also, Lvl. 1 Sturdy pokes aren't trolling me now! My favorite situation is facing a SubPuncher, they try to Focus Punch then realize they can't do anything! Hydro Pump hits Fire and Steel types, while the special attack allows an almost guranteed OHKO on Excadrill and Mamoswine. Rapid Spin, is good ol' Rapid Spin.

Even though Cloyster is weak to everything you would expect it to spin away, it is still a perfect move for Cloyster. This guy loves to just laugh in Skarmory's face. It makes Lucario happy by 2HKoing those that run max defense and by preventing it from setting up anything. The Relaxed Nature lets it stay slower to spin after it sets up. You would really be suprised how many times this can come in and do things that other Utility pokemon can't! You get free set up on Swampert, Hippowdon, Gliscor, Garchomp etc. and random things like Flame Orb Swellow make you glad that you didn't choose Forretress. Even though it can't spin on Ferrothorn, its just an oppurtunity for a double switch to Luke, and it's ability to be offensive and defensive in one ensures it is NOT outclassed! Icicle Spear's buff didn't just make it viable as a Shell Smasher as most people think.


Fun stuff-
Jolly Baloon Excadrill Rock Slide- 26.3-31.6%
+2 Jolly Baloon Excadrill EQ- 52.6-62.5%
+2 Adamant Life Orb Excadrill Rock Slide- 75.7-89.5%
Baloon Terrakion Close Combat- 61.2-73%
+2 Jolly Leftovers Garchomp Outrage- 61.5-73%
Jolly Chioce Band Mamoswine EQ- 38.8-45.7%
Adamant Choice Band Electivire Wild Charge- 73-86.8%
Adamant Choice Band Scizor U-Turn- 29.9-35.5%
+2 uninvested Gliscor EQ- 32.6-38.5%
Adamant Toxic Orb Breloom Seed Bomb- 45.4-53.9% (it can't Focus Punch because of Icicle Spear :D)


Quality Control didn't like it, I love it.
@ Leftovers
Ability- Prankster
Nature- Bold
EVs- 252 HP, 56 def, 180 spD, 20 spe
-Taunt
-Encore
-Substitute
-Leech Seed​

Whimsicott was the single pokemon I wasn't 100% confident about when I started playing with htis team, but boy, he has saved my ass SO MANY TIMES :D Priority Encore is what sets him away from everything else. By encoring a set up move, such as a Growth or a Swords Dance, I can use a bit of prediction to take away an imminent threat and give me a chance to throw a sweep back. Taunt was another reason I wanted a Prankster on my team, Deoxys-S is an asshole of a lead, and my Spinner won't take any special attack from it. It may not be a foolproof plan, but I am grateful I have this one-of-a-kind lifesaver on my team.​

Besides saving me and furthering my ability to keep Stealth Rock off the field, Whimsicott is a deadly SubSeeder. If any non-grass type switches in, it will get stalled to death as long as Leech Seed doesn't miss. This makes it a threat in its own right, especially because it can do this to multiple pokemon depending on weather conditions and the opponent's HP. It also does pretty good against Jellicent and as I keep saying Ferrothorn is a golden oppurtunity for Luke anyway. This gives it great synergy with the rest of the team, not only because I can help another member sponge a hit more easily, but also because any Grass type I have seen can be double switched to Latios or Lucario in my favor.​

-The 20 speed evs are "speed creep" towards other Whimsicott.​

Espeon might replace you-

@ Leftovers
Ability- Magic Bounce
Nature- Timid
EVs- 128 HP, 128 spA, 252 spe
-Substitute
-Baton Pass
-Psyshock
-Calm Mind

Espeon may replace Whimsicott in order to help me deal with Roserade/the musketeers, and Scizor, Scizor by luring it in with a Sub and taking the Bug Bite/Bullet Punch with Luke/Mence. Calm Mind and Substitute let it set up on Jellicent/Slowbro and then pass to Mence who has his defenses boosted on both sides (Intimidate) and a really scary Draco Meteor. My team has some resitances (and SR weaknesses) that can be put to good use with this set. Sigilyph is hopefully troubled by this set, but the only thing I can hit it with is Salamence (im planning not to use this with Latios) so any advice on how to help deal with it would really be appreciated. Hydreigon would be a great help in this particular case but I like having Salamence to outspeed it and Haxorus, who can leave a good dent in my team. The EV spread is on-the-fly have bulk and OHKO Terrakion/Virizion.


@ Expert Belt
Ability- Levitate
Nature- Timid
EVs- 4 def, 252 spA, 252 spe
-Draco Meteor
-HP Fire
-Surf
-Psycho Shock​

Expert Belt Latios is a newer addition to the team. He helps with my Scizor weakness by luring it in 99% of the time and deals with its every other counter it has by switching to Lucario. Tyranitar, Ferrothorn etc. are just gonna get beat down by my hazards through double switching. Even if Tyranitar gets in, it better hope its cool with Lucario getting a free SD. Psycho Shock deals with more threats that I have trouble with, namely Terrakion and Virizion. Conkeldurr isn't quite OHKOed if it has used Bulk Up, but it wo't be nearly as threatening when its at such low health. I will write more when I have done more testing. Running such a common pokemon and one that is up for suspect testing isn't my favorite so that's why another Dragon is gunning for this job.​

Old Specs set analysis-

This set takes a slight deviation from the rest of the team in that it is the most commonly used set of one of the most commonly used pokemon in the game. It is high OU for good reason, it is incredibly useful. It helps reduce the amount of Steel-less noobs I lose against by OHKOing everything, although hax will still turn those games around. SR+Spikes makes Draco Meteor sting even more. HP Fighting isn't completely standard, I got the idea from my bud on Pokemon Online and realized that unlike Grass Knot or HP Fire, I had the option of killing Tyranitar and Ferrothorn switch ins simultaneously. It may seem like Lucario should just be switched in here, but killing Tyranitar's Sand Stream early is a huge boon, as well as preventing Lucario from taking Iron Barbs damage or getting walled by a Gliscor. Not only does it do this, HP Fighting also suprises Heatran in the sun, so even with a bog standard set I am suprising and taking advantage of everyone.​

Surf is an additional coverage option should I need to plow through multiple Fire, Ground or Rock types. It also prevents me from losing to Rain Scizor, one of the best Latios counters. Trick is a permanent Encore for the weird looking Ciphilis bird if it gets too many boosts going. I could also say it is used for special walls, but I never seem to actually use it. If Snorlax or any other bulked up Pursuiters get me, oh well, here comes Lucario! I truly hope Latios doesn't get banned, he did hit a simple majority this round. All of his best counters are OU pokemon, and hopefully people can be trained to run some faster threats like Tornadus or a good counter to have a fair game against him.​


I might take your job-

@ Life Orb
Ability- Intimidate
Nature- Naive
EVs- 4 atk, 252 spA, 252 spe
-Dragon Dance
-Draco Meteor
-Outrage
-Fire Blast

Salamence was the very first pokemon to come in mind when building this team. The idea was that I would surely lure in that pesky Slowbro and other walls like Hippowdon, which would go over very well with Lucario. With the hazards advantage this team strives to attain and my need to OHKO Metagross and Scizor he does good work with Fire Blast, and makes a massive threat on both sides of the spectrum with huge speed and both attack stats on both sides. The only thing that can be taking this thing on is Heatran, who I have a defensive pivot AND an offensive check for. Well, Chansey, Porygon2 and Dusclops can, but oh well. With my stacks of hazards and arguably the biggest mixed threat in the entire game there isn't much better to weaken a team for an excellent cleanup man. Intimidate ain't to bad either. All Latios has over this is speed, which is annoyingly crucial.


@ Life Orb
Ability- Inner Focus
Nature- Adamant
EVs- 252 atk, 4 def, 252 spe
-Close Combat
-Swords Dance
-Extremespeed
-Crunch​

Lucario is a rather predictable pokemon, but in this new sea of threatening pokemon some have forgotten just how potent he is. He comes in after a Pursuit or more commonly a Ferrothorn/Tyranitar and fires off a brutal Close Combat. That rain Ferrothorn that annoys us all isn't getting too far with this guy on my team. Like Latios's Draco Meteor, Close Combat becomes even harder to manage with SR+Spikes. It may seem useless to run this set with Gliscor spammed everywhere, but its a free oppurtunity for Cloyster to come in and do its thing. Extremespeed can be a lifesaver when I can't Encore a set up or resisted move by Whimsicott. It's also nice to OHKO Latios and other random fast pokemon after an SD. Crunch is to OHKO Slowbro after SR+Spikes and Jellicent, who is tough for me to switch into.​

Lucario has been a top threat for so long, with so few changes ever being made to it. There was Bullet Punch, which I cannot see myself using over any of these moves. I have thought about running Ice Punch over Extremespeed to let it run straight through modern stall, but Extremespeed is so useful for revenge killing and picking off faster pokemon- it has been more beneficial overall. Lucario is the perfect sweeper for me, as when im not running the usual stall (which I have grown quite bored of) I like to spam powerful attacks as many times as possible without needing too much prediction to pull a late game cleanup.​


Threats

Can be threatening/Very hard to win against

Scizor- Bulky SD sets are usually no trouble for me, but with this team it sets up on both of my main walls. The only way I can kill it is Lucario's Close Combat, and if I Encore it I end up facing a +6 Scizor.

-I have thought about changing back to Salamence to OHKO, but then the base 108s need to be answered to.


Virizion- Again, I can only kill with Lucario, which is only safe after Whimsicott encores it. I used to run Choice Band on Metagross which would OHKO and Psyshock on Latios but other issues pop up when I do this.

Terrakion- My only fighting resistance on this whole team is Latios, who convieniently outruns and OHKOes. However, if it's a scarf and it predicts with X-Scissor (which isn't uncommon) one of my most important attackers/revenge killers is near dead and a free turn for Cloyster just doesn't make up for it.

Cobalion- I haven't faced one yet, but I could imagine him in the same category as the other musketeers. I could 2HKO with Hammer Arm from Metagross or OHKO with Close Combat with Luke, but Latios can't do anything to it after a Calm Mind so I need to rely on Encore from Whimsicott.

Roserade- Sleep Powder users always annoy me, as well as grass types, and in the case of this team, Toxic Spikes too. It will always take a pokemon out of commision because of the new sleep mechanics and the fact that my only pokemon who can kill a Focus Sash user gets OHKOed by even a Mega Drain.

Ludicolo- Despite being a favorite of mine, this guy really pisses me off. Noobs who have never heard of Ferrothorn beat me with the SubSeed set and Damp Rock rain versions can only be stopped by Whimsicott.


Tornado Bro- The only pokemon I have to take Hurricane is Metagross, who is overwhelmed if it is also called on to counter Latios. Nothing on my team can keep pace with it except for Lucario's Extremespeed.


Excadrill- Not impossible to deal with, but with a little luck he can break past Cloyster and if he sets up that's the only guy who can stop it.



Solutions

This means the pokemon is blue :)

Salamence- He can still outrun no-sand Excadrill and Hydreigon/Haxorus who would be huge threats to my team. It also gives me a great Fire attack to OHKO Scizor and Metagross with. However, if he replaces Latios I miss out on the musketeer trio that takes its place in my threat list.

Hydreigon- Taunt and monstorous special attack will hold back that Sigilyph I hate so much, and likes Calm Mind boosts from Espeon very much.

Espeon- Makes it easier to keep hazards off the field, outruns the musketeers and KOs the big two with Psycho Shock, and makes my team not weak to Roserade! If Substitute+Baton Pass is legal, which I think it is because you can breed Dream World Abilities, it would have excellent synergy with Lucario. Tyranitar and Scizor will try to Crunch/Bug Bite it respectively almost every time!

Claydol- Gives me an alternate spinner that resists every hazard, and a decent check to Terrakion. Excadrill without X-Scissor, which is common now, is dealt with easily too. I even get another Stealth Rock setter so Metagross can run Choice Band along with an extra move. This adds to my Scizor weakness though. It may force me to choose between Espeon and Latios as I don't like runnning 3 of the same type, which is what changed up the original team. Claydol has great synergy with Cloyster and Lucario.

Something to outrun base 111s- This just seems incredibly useful because of the Genies and the Eon twins.


Replaceable Members

Every pokemon on this team has a purpose and I really do love all of them. My team isn't perfect however, so i'll talk about the pokemon I could deal with losing most easily.

Whimsicott- I really hate to put this little cotton fairy on notice, he saves me against so many things. However, I am not his best user, and he was the only original member I wasn't completely confident with. I give away free turns sometimes when im not careful. However, new problems will surely rise if I am not careful about replacing him because in his little space, he was glue against most every set up sweeper out there, the ones that still trouble me are why I may need to replace him.

Latios- Using bog standard sets as well as playing the "guess which pokemon is coming/staying in or die" game is not my style. Getting Pursuited early doesn't help Lucario much and letting hazards go up is a thorn (heheheh Ferrothorn) in my side. Because the original Dragon of the team was Salamence, and many of the things Latios does can be done by Mence too I may switch back. Salamence seems to fit best with Espeon, so I can still outrun and kill the base 108 speed Musketeers and keep hazards off the field more easily.

-Using a Substitute/Baton Pass/Psycho Shock/Filler Espeon along with the good old Mix DD Mence seems to be the best course of action. Any input on whether or not this legal and the effectiveness would be great.






Thank you for reading my RMT!! I was a bit hesistant to post it before extensive laddering, but I was too anxious to show it off and it have it nitpicked. If you have any questions on how I deal with anything please ask. I have never been as proud of any team I have ever made! I hope you love it just as much as I do.​
 
Man, this team is awesome. After my recent RMT which I worked on for ages, i can appreciate the work you've put into this. I love the RMT format as well as the blue theme as well XD. Anyway, onto a proper rate.

It's always hard to say something about as well thought out a team as this - a small threat analysis would perhaps help with this? Anyway, I love your use of Gross, who is even rarer than Gastro this gen, as well as Defensive Cloyster.

On Gastro, I would have to perhaps think about Yawn, however. EQ in particular seems like you don't use it much - Excadrill is dealt with by Hail then another team member, and Tran seems unlikely to be coming into a Ground/Water type, and even if it does it'll probably be Balloon. Since you're switching in, perhaps having a free turn then leaving, Yawn seems a good choice to rack up hazard damage and try and induce buffeed Sleep. Prevents some setup attampts too. Losing STAB is unattractive, however, so it's entirely up to you.

Pursuit on Gross seems a tab situational, though admittedly I'm unsure how well it does given the rarity of Gross. If using CB I'd think about Trick to cripple yet more things, and if not then perhaps BP or an elemental punch? Admittedly there aren't too many other options, but from your description it looks like you don't use it too much so you could replace it on that basis.

Finally, just a minor suggestion but Vacuum Wave Luke is very very rare, so consider dropping all but 8 Spe on Whimsicott (to beat 4 Spe other Whimsicott) and putting the rest in bulk.

Anyway, would love to see a threatlist so I can perhaps help a tad more, and finally just a comment but the pictures in your teambuiliding section don't seem to match with what you're talking about? Good luck with this team again, I sympathise with the desire not to ladder but wanting to know your team works :).
 
Man, one of the best teams I've seen so far. The only thing I could really recommend is trading HP Fighting on Latios. You've said that it comes in handy against both Ferrothorn and Tyranitar, but you lose precious setup fodder for Lucario, who can't really set up on too much. Perhaps Thunderbolt or Grass Knot for nailing Bulky Waters, Tbolt nailing Empoleon and Grass Knot maiming Swampert and Gastrodon.
 
Thanks for the rates guys! I updated with a threat list and I seperated the paragraphs in the team building section so hopefully that makes it easier to follow.

Yawn on Gastrodon is defenitely getting tested when I play again. I think ill keep HP Fighting on Latios, because at the moment, getting rid of the two overused pricks simulatneously has been really useful towards preserving my team from weather/hazards and keeping my super powerful revenge killer. I will keep it in mind though because whatever changes to this team happen may change up the set. Thanks again!
 
Cool team.

Metagross is fine. He needs pursuit so SpecsLati doesn't rampage through.

Gastrodon wants special attacks to make use of Storm Drain. Tbh I've never seen it with physical moves. Something like Earth Power and Surf/Ice Beam should work fine. I would suggest Boil Over on a defensive poke, but it might conflict with Yawn. Especially given the Scizor weak, that extra burn could be handy though.

Have fun with Cloyster. I'm digging the originality, but if he's your answer to Dory that SR weak is going to be a pain in the ass (see above calcs). I guess you have Hail and Erufuun in the wings to Encore the SD, but that's a really risky strategy. You shouldn't be trifling like that with such a big threat.

You probably already know Erufuun forces a lot of switches with Prankster and fully abuses those spikes. It comes down to preference really, but I think U-turn is a great move on it to scout those switches, cause even more switches, and keep momentum. I'd try it out over Sub.

I would definitely consider a Jolly nature on Luc to outspeed Dory in the snow. May need the power though.

Maybe edit a bit more later. Good luck in any case. Out
 
Thanks for your rate! On Gastrodon the only reason im running Rock Slide is because of Volcarona, because trying to use him as an attacker seems risky because he can still be set up on easily. I might put Scald/Boil Over over Yawn though to hit certain baloon pokes and stop Scizor setting up.

I agree Excadrill isn't a pokemon thats fun to have a loose strategy against. I take risks but I still don't like relying on an Encore to stop everything (well I do because it works at stopping a lot of threats but it can be countered too easily). Ill try U-Turn because it seems to have better synergy with the team, but Sub seems really important for Erufuun to do its job. Ill be testing both out eventually.

It actually completely slipped my mind that Lucario is faster than Excadrill! I have been running Adamant because it seems to mix naturally with Extremespeed to gurantee a bunch of KOs, in particular I wanted insurance against Latios and Slowbro. In the case Baloon Dory comes in, it wont be able to set up- it can revenge kill Lucario but if it just tries to EQ me its doing little damage to Cloyster. Life Orb versions are much scarier if its in Sandstorm. Thankfully, I somehow haven't had bad problems with it! It can be hard for it to set up and Whimsicott is an emergency stop, however this is unreliable and when it gets me overpredicting I am put at a huge disadvantage. Ill see if problems pop up later with my newer version.

Thanks again for the rate!
 
You have a very nice team here, it is clear you put a good deal of thought into it. I will offer a few suggestions that I have found to be very effective at improving the way your team deals with its threats.

1)I would highly suggest an Expert Belt set on Latios with HP Fire/Draco Meteor/Surf/Psyshock. This allows you to bait in a lot of threats like Scizor who are eager to come in on a resisted Draco Meteor, only to find that you go for something like Surf instead, and follow up with a powerful HP Fire to OHKO it. They will likely assume you are using a Specs set and feel comfortable staying in on you. This set also helps you take on threats like Conkeldurr and Virizion (who can both counter Luke and set up on you) with an Expert Belt STAB Psyshock which deals heavy damage with Latios's base 130 SpA.
2)Following in this vein, I would recommend you try out Shell Smash on your Cloyster in a set like this:

Cloyster@Life Orb
48 HP / 252 Atk / 208 Spe
Jolly Nature

-Shell Smash
-Icicle Spear
-Ice Shard
-Shell Blade

With this set you get a strong set up sweeper to use in a situation where it is easier to set up than Luke, and a strong STAB Ice Shard that can do very good damage to threats like Thundurus and Tornadus, and take them out after a Shell Smash. With Ice Shard, you also circumvent to an extent other priority whichcould otherwise ruin your day. With Latios being able to take a Mach Punch from Conkeldurr and revenge it effectively, you don't have to worry too much about it stopping you cold, and Spikes support isn't as necessary when you use Expert Belt Latios, who is capable of using its great coverage to take out its common switch-ins.

3)Metagross should definitely replace Meteor Mash with Stone Edge IMO, as you will constantly be predicted to use Meteor Mash, only to nail with Stone Edge pokes like Thundurus who can come in and sweep a good deal of your team before you can revenge it with Cloyster and Luke, as a +2 Focus Blast will do a great deal of damage to Gastrodon, who possesses only a minimal SpD investment and 82 base SpD. Steel STAB in general is pretty iffy, and you already have Hammer Arm to handle easily threats like Tyranitar no problem.

4)As for Whimsicott, you should definitely keep him, as he is a perfect counter to things like Thundurus or Landorosu or Gorebyss who can frequently get a free turn and sweep. With powerful attackers like Metagross and Latios, you can Encore them into a move, and either phaze them out with Gastrodon and Yawn, or OHKO them with Metagross or Latios.

I hope I was able to help somewhat. I encourage you to try out my suggestions and see if they work for your team.
 
I love your team. One, it's setup very nicely, and you put a lot of thought in to it. Two, it's my favorite color: blue.

This might sounds strange, but have you every considered using Braviary? And yes, in shiny form, he's blue.



BRAVIARY @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd

Brave Bird
Superpower
Hone Claws
Rock Slide/Shadow Claw

Yes, it flies, and yes, it destroys things. This Pokemon right here would replace your Whimsicott as a check for those who cause problems for your team. Brave Bird will OHKO all of your problems, except Terrakion and Scizor, which Superpower covers. Hone Claws for a setup if you wish, and the last slot is up to you for additional coverage of your choosing. Gastrodon and Lucario cover Braviary's weaknesses.
 
Thanks again for the rates I love hearing different opinions!

-Braviary is cool and I would defenitely be using one in game, but 80 speed is really slow nowadays. It works on tanks and walls but an offensive pokemon who wants to spam a recoil attack and doesn't have many resistances just gets outpsed and OHKOed too much. Flying in my opinion is the best offensive typing in the game next to Fighting but you need power AND speed to use it.

As for Expert Belt Latios, it doesn't seem to have a desirable amount of power. This doesn't mean I might not eat my words! I don't want to change defensive Cloyster because he gives me a pivot to come in on bulky walls (bar Ferrothorn) that I cant kill with Lucario or Latios. With SR+Spikes up an opponent with their bulky Tar will get beaten down by double switches, and my main prick-to-face Scizor will just love it. I don't know if they will buy Specs when Surf does like 30% to them, but with my hazards I can defenitely take advantage of that situation.

Only problem is that stupid ancient bird- without trick I can't put a full stop to it. This is another reason why Espeon with SubPass is becoming so appealing to me, it also lures in Scizor but puts no risk to getting itself pursued in the process. Scizor and Ttar will likely use U-Turn or crunch respectively giving Luke a chance to wreck shit. It also helps by Calm Minding against the bird or subbing on it so Metagross can let out an onslaught against it or Cloyster can try for a crit with 5 Icicle Spears. If this doesn't work often enough I could just run Yawn on it for even more hazards abuse and non-Flame Orb versions (even if they barely exist). Running this base 110 Psychic makes that lures out Scizor... it just makes Latios less desirable.

Just an FYI Metagross doesn't learn Stone Edge lol but its fine CB Meteor Mash can kill it after SR!

The problem with making the change to Espeon and Salamence is ditching Whimsicott- since you pointed up my trouble with every other set up sweeper priority Encore is getting to me all over again. Gastrodon can at least deal with it if it hasn't set up a Sub though and I can run Clear Smog-


In the end, I will be testing my newer layout and the current version with Expert Belt Latios. Thanks guys.
 

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