In-Game Tier List Discussion

[Raikaria]

Remembers me (off topic warning). I was playing through the Japanese game, found a shaking spot for the 1st time in the pinwheel forest. I was like: wtf is that? Shiny? Then I encountered a Lilligant. For some reason I didn't even try to catch it.

Probobly a good thing. As a Stone Evolution, Lilligant dosen't get many level up moves.

Lilligant misses out on Giga Drain and Sleep Powder, two core moves which make Petillil so good in-game.

You can train it in that elevator in castelia city with all those trainers, and you can go to the desert and knock the crap out of some sandiles. I swept Elesa's whole team with Leavanny (mine evolved to Leavanny before the gym) Return was dealing massive amounts of damage to here Emolga's, and there Aerial Ace was failing to even 3hko (yeah, mine was that damn bulky).

And, Cicada, I do not belive that a x4 effective, STAB Aerial Ace, could be 4HKO'ing a Levanny, unless you were something like Lv 40+. Especially since mine only just avoided a OHKO at Lv 30. And you won't be Lv 50+ with B/W's leveling mechanics.

Unfortunetly, as I do not know your Levanny's stats, and level, I cannot provide an accurate calc... however:

Lv 26 0/0 - 0IV Neutral Emolga's AA v Lv 30 Levanny [252/252 Bold]:

40 ~ 52 Damage
[Out of 113]

Certain 3HKO. And I highly doubt your Levanny was 252/252 Bold. And Elesa's Emonga are probobly not 0IV either. [IDK IV's for Gym Leaders]

Using something more realistic, a 20/20 Neutral spread, with a 15 IV in both HP and Defense:

60 ~72 Damage
[Out of 91]

Certain 2HKO

And even then, those EV's are generous for the period you would have had a Swadloon.

Please don't post Bull.

 

[Oh My Biscuits]

Leavanny = LOVE. After getting Sewaddle in Pinwheel Forest, I didn't really train it at all. As soon as I got to Castelia, I went straight for the Battle Company. The three Basuclin that someone had... That was a TON of EXP. Sewaddle evolved into Swadloon shortly afterward. When I got to Nimbasa, I just went back and forth on the bike at Skyarrow Bridge. It only took me about 5 or 6 trips through(one trip going up and another one going down), and then I just defeated a Poke and it evolved. It's been useful ever since, and I even used it to beat Castle Top and N.

 

[The Cicada]

Probobly a good thing. As a Stone Evolution, Lilligant dosen't get many level up moves.

Lilligant misses out on Giga Drain and Sleep Powder, two core moves which make Petillil so good in-game.



And, Cicada, I do not belive that a x4 effective, STAB Aerial Ace, could be 4HKO'ing a Levanny, unless you were something like Lv 40+. Especially since mine only just avoided a OHKO at Lv 30. And you won't be Lv 50+ with B/W's leveling mechanics.

Unfortunetly, as I do not know your Levanny's stats, and level, I cannot provide an accurate calc... however:

Lv 26 0/0 - 0IV Neutral Emolga's AA v Lv 30 Levanny [252/252 Bold]:

40 ~ 52 Damage
[Out of 113]

Certain 3HKO. And I highly doubt your Levanny was 252/252 Bold. And Elesa's Emonga are probobly not 0IV either. [IDK IV's for Gym Leaders]

Using something more realistic, a 20/20 Neutral spread, with a 15 IV in both HP and Defense:

60 ~72 Damage
[Out of 91]

Certain 2HKO

And even then, those EV's are generous for the period you would have had a Swadloon.

Please don't post Bull.

Lol, i meant to say they werent 2hkoing, not 3hko =P. My Leavanny was lvl 32 with a relaxed nature is all i remember =/.

Leavanny = LOVE. After getting Sewaddle in Pinwheel Forest, I didn't really train it at all. As soon as I got to Castelia, I went straight for the Battle Company. The three Basuclin that someone had... That was a TON of EXP. Sewaddle evolved into Swadloon shortly afterward. When I got to Nimbasa, I just went back and forth on the bike at Skyarrow Bridge. It only took me about 5 or 6 trips through(one trip going up and another one going down), and then I just defeated a Poke and it evolved. It's been useful ever since, and I even used it to beat Castle Top and N.

What does riding back and forth do tho? just wondering

 

[Oh My Biscuits]

Err, riding back and forth increases happiness.

 

[The Cicada]

Oh, i never knew that.

 

[Arceusderp]

WHY IS PANSEAR AND MUNNA BOTH IN LOW TIER THEYRE SO HELPFUL IN THE BEGINNING

 

[Sajak]

WHY IS PANSEAR AND MUNNA BOTH IN LOW TIER THEYRE SO HELPFUL IN THE BEGINNING

That's why they're low tier.

 

[The Cicada]

Pansear is a crying shame. Nuff said

 

[Arcticblast]

Cicada, your avatar reminds me of Pidove. Just saying.

And speaking of Pidove, why is it so low? Mine was amazing and usually got the KOs it needed to later on. The nature lowered Sp. Attack though and it was a bitch to train at first, but it's the first Flying-type you get ingame and works great. Destroys the Bug gym if it's a high enough level.

 

[Vladimir]

There's a ton of pokes that can solo the Bug gym, you even get the Rock Tomb TM just b4 it. The fact that Pidove "solos" it (which it doesn't, because Dwebble destroys it) isn't a redeeming factor for its base 36 sp.atk.

 

[Lou Cypher]

I tried using Leavanny and...well...its not bad. Early its strong enough courtesy of Bug Bite/Razor Leaf, but midway it falters a bit...then later on you get X-Scizzor and Leaf Blade and all's good, add Swords Dance and a move of your choice and it'll hit most pretty hard.
However...its fairly useless against the last 3 gyms (which is when it starts to pick up again) and fails against Elesa too, and the E4...eeeh, 2 out of 4...
I'd say its a great Mid tier poke. False Swipe access does help its case.

 

[The Cicada]

I tried using Leavanny and...well...its not bad. Early its strong enough courtesy of Bug Bite/Razor Leaf, but midway it falters a bit...then later on you get X-Scizzor and Leaf Blade and all's good, add Swords Dance and a move of your choice and it'll hit most pretty hard.
However...its fairly useless against the last 3 gyms (which is when it starts to pick up again) and fails against Elesa too, and the E4...eeeh, 2 out of 4...
I'd say its a great Mid tier poke. False Swipe access does help its case.

I don't see how Leavanny fais against Elesa. It was my mvp agaisnt her. Return deals massive damage since you already know Returns BP is gonna be maxed........, and her Emolga's just basically bowed down to my Leavanny. Normally i get owned by Elesa like 10 times in a row before finally winning =/.

 

[Vladimir]

Emolga 2HKOs with Aerial Ace and Leavanny 2HKOs with Return. Emolga is faster. Guess who wins. Also 32 is overlevelled for that point in the game, and most people wouldn't have fully evolved their Sewaddles by the 4th gym.

 

[The Cicada]

Didnt go like that for me tho =/.

Mine was lvl 32 because i wasnt gonna training anything else untill it evolved from Swadloon.

 

[Lou Cypher]

Didnt go like that for me tho =/.

Mine was lvl 32 because i wasnt gonna training anything else untill it evolved from Swadloon.

So you were overlevelled. 25-28 seems to be a far better benchmark.

 

[The Cicada]

So you were overlevelled. 25-28 seems to be a far better benchmark.

Leavanny was the only one overleveled tho. the rest were in the 20's

 

[420]

Yamask up a tier

Once it becomes Cofagrigus it is IMMORTAL and also learns lots of awesome TMs which make up for its bad movepool. Also, you can give it eviolite until it evolves. I had a team of Darmanitan, Excadrill, Archeops, Galvantula, Serperior, and Cofagrigus, and despite 4 of my members supposedly being top tier, cofagrigus was the SECOND most useful member of my team. (Excadril obviously being the first)

I'm not saying one person's opinion suddenly makes it top tier, just saiyan maybe we should reconsider its tier placement if more people agree with me.

 

[rainbows]

i am an expert on shitty pokemon since it seems i didnt use anything thats considered high tier on the list

munna is a piece of SHIT to train, you have to grind all the way up until level fucking 35 or some bullshit to get psychic and calm mind and youre stuck with using psybeam for like 10 levels. once it evolves its really bulky and you can just spam calm mind and psychic but its just much easier to get a pokemon who doesnt require grinding to get a decent move. really low tier


reuniclus is a better psychic type even though its not as bulky, its slow yeah but its sp. atk stat is great. way better than munna and elgyem for sure. it doesnt learn calm mind before the elite 4, but i find that psychic and psyshock does the job. upper mid tier because he's pretty fragile before he evolves.

i love swanna. it learns fly and surf, and air slash is a good move. if you hate pidove or oshawott you can use this instead. its not that great and ducklett has 44/44 attack/sp. atk lol :jump: but its not terrible. i didnt notice it taking a long time to level up. regardless of its mediocre stats its quite handy if you dont already have a water or flying type. it also murders the fighting type elite 4 but it doesnt really count for much unless you really have no pokemon that's effective against fighting... lower mid tier because of good moves but lacking stats

patrat/watchog is alright. was surprised at how early it evolves. hypnosis is sadly inaccurate, so thats not a good reason to use this. however, super fang is a great move, crunch is good as it learns it really early. after hyper fang at level 32, theres pretty much no more good level up moves, but you can replace hyper fang with return later on. clearly they intended this to be a pokemon you only use for the first couple gyms and then dump in a box, but since he's one of my favorites, i kept him through the elite 4. super fang is good for 3 out of the 4, and crunch kinda helps for the psychic elite 4, but his stats are really too shoddy. lower mid tier for being a good early game pokemon, but faltering a lot later on.

audino is adorable. it comes really early and has good tanking and support capabilities. it learns a whole lot of TMs. its attacking stats are okay but secret power is surprisingly good. work-up, return, and t-wave are great TMs for this guy. if you dont want to buy return, you can just use secret power as your main attack. if you're really cheap and dont want to buy t-wave either, he still has good defenses/HP and can survive working up for a few rounds to OHKO everything. i guess its hard to rank this as he's not as useful as he could be if you dont buy the t-wave TM, but im gonna go with lower mid because i really dont think he's bad.

 

[Kikuichimonji]

Yamask up a tier

Once it becomes Cofagrigus it is IMMORTAL and also learns lots of awesome TMs which make up for its bad movepool.

Vitality is of relatively little importance considering how inexpensive healing items are; anything that is bulky enough to avoid constantly getting OHKO'd or 2HKO'd is "good enough" and there isn't much measure beyond that. A Pokemon that "never dies" is of little use when it can't kill anything. Having 30/55 attack stats until level 34 is really bad.

Also, what are these "lots of awesome TMs" you speak of? I went through the entire list, and it seems like the only special attack it has access to via TM before post-game is Grass Knot which isn't exactly the most reliable attack in the game (and a lot of things learn it besides). Cofagrigus's movepool just seems really bad all around. Until level 39, its only STABs are Hex (a 50 base power attack with 10 PP) and Ominous Wind (a 60 base power attack with 5 PP).

it doesnt learn calm mind before the elite 4

It's worth pointing out that X Special is the more important half of a Calm Mind and has the benefit of not requiring you to waste a moveslot. They're pricey enough that you probably don't want to use them for many routine encounters (as you might with Calm Mind), but they're there for the important gyms leaders/E4.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

Cofagrigus is bullshit.

The only other TM that Cofagrigus has before post-game is Shadow Ball(I'm quite sure its pre-E4, because I used it on my Reuniclus), but Shadow Ball isn't exactly the greatest thing.

Calcs assume EVs in the stat boosted, 31 IVs.

LV 45 Modest 252 Reuniclus' Shadow Ball (31 IV) VS LV 45 Calm 252 Sigilyph (31 IV):
58.3%-69.3%

LV 45 Modest 252 Sigilyph's Shadow Ball (31 IV) VS LV 45 Calm 252 Sigilyph (31 IV):
52%-61.4%

LV 45 Modest 252 Gothitelle's Shadow Ball (31 IV) VS LV 45 Calm 252 Sigilyph (31 IV):
48.8%-58.3%

LV 45 Modest 252 Cofagrigus' Shadow Ball (31 IV) VS LV 45 Calm 252 Sigilyph (31 IV):
72.4%-86.6%

That may seem good, but its after 20+ levels of mediocrity. In that period, Sigilyph is destroying everything, Solosis is walling and destroying with 105 SpA, and Gothita is likely using Dark/Psychic coverage to full potential. Yamask is stuck with HEX. Alone.

There are 2 more people with Shadow Ball, Chandelure and Beheeyem. Beheeyem is lol, Chandelure would KO everything regardless so it doesn't really matter.

 

[420]

april fools! lol cofag sucks

 

[Raikaria]

Just to point out, Hex is stronger than Shadow Ball after Will-O-Wisp [Base 100 power + STAB, then add Will-O's passive damage]

In longer, more drawn out fights [3HKO+], Hex beats Shadow Ball.

Will-O-Wisp lowering physicl attack helps too.

My Cofigarus beat Renbu, except for this Troh... which I got bored of being healed constantly, so I just finished that with my Unfezant...

 

[Ninja_13]

How is Accelgor, besides the trading bit (I have both games and two DS's, so I can evolve it ASAP)?

 

[spweasel]

How is Accelgor, besides the trading bit (I have both games and two DS's, so I can evolve it ASAP)?

I haven't tried him (so I can't say for sure), but he doesn't look that great on paper. He has great speed and SAtk, sure, but he has bad defensive typing and no defenses. That would be forgivable, but he doesn't get any good Special STABs until level 44, meaning he's going to have a harder time OHKOing things, leaving him way open to getting counterattacked to death.

If he were available earlier in the game, he might be useful, but as it is he's just too late, too frail, and too lacking in good moves to cut it.

Me First is a cute trick, but unless your foe is using something they are themselves weak to, I'm not seeing it being particularly helpful. I'm curious how it would fair against the final gym, though. Seems too luck-based to me, but you never know.

 

[666lumberjack]

just finishing up for second time, and the only mon I'm really gonna comment on is Maractus.
Why the fuck is this in low tier?
Ok, I accept, Doredia is probably better, so it doesn't deserve to be high, but STAB Petal Dance off 106 base Spatk at level 38 is certaintly better than anything Jaroda can do. You get Sucker punch and Pin Missile for coverage, and Acupressure to boost, or synthesis to heal up. With Giga drain, mine did most of the work in the 4th gym, too. Ariel ace fails to 2hko even without gia drain, and though Flame Charge does a lot, zebby lack the grass resist so there's more healing there. I can say without a doubt I would have lost without it, and even after than, I have been consistenly please with it. At times it's been outperforming the rest of my team - Klang/darmanitan/archeops/siglyph/scrafty - and if you notice, those are basically all high tier. If for whatever reason you don't fancy the liliy, this is the grass type you should use instead. Mid-High.