Battle Subway

[c l e a r]

wow.

255 | Froslass | Timid | Icy Rock | Hail | Ice Beam | Ominous Wind | Thunderbolt | Spd/SpA

This Froslass from just the beginning... wow. Let's see if I can make this less depressing with various colors!

There is F/Hail up. My Octillery failed in outspeeding Froslass, that's fine. Froslass has been Soaked, so I switch over to my Rotom-H, and think to T-bolt it. Rotom eats the T-bolt no problem.

Rotom-H is Scarf'd, I used T-bolt. It MISSES due to hax cloak. She then uses Ominous Wind of all things shit, and GOT THE BOOST.

She outspeeds me now, uses O-Wind again, Critical hit. Offs Rotom-H.

My reserve is Tangrowth, which means it's survival is very slim. It is soaked after all, so she has no STAB. I chose Sleep Powder, She uses Ice Beam, I live with a silver of health. And I thought, "oh good, now I can..." and she FREEZE HAX.

At that point I just turned off the DS, what a kick in the balls this was.
I'm sure it's not worst than 3x Quick Claws, 2x CHs, and 1x Horn Drill. But wow, someone please top this.

So yeah, my team right now is.

Octillery with Pro, Sub, Soak, Bullet Seed, and Scarf Rotom-H, they provide each other synergy, and CPU sucks at leaving Soaked Pokemon out. I definitely need to replace Tangrowth though. I keep getting owned by these ice attacks... and any Sap Sipper as well after I played with after a while.

EDIT: Nope, the colors are not helping.

 

[mudkipmaster]

625 | Miltank | Adamant | Scope Lens | Dizzy Punch | Fire Punch | ThunderPunch | Ice Punch | Atk/Def

Beaten by a stupid Miltank. I lead with Garchomp, and I was expecting a Toxic/T-Wave, so I substitute. This is a Miltank after all, but no, it breaks my sub with a FRIGGIN ICE PUNCH! At this point I'm like, WTH is this Miltank? I switch to my Darmanitan, expecting another Ice Punch, but it decides to switch it up and go with Dizzy Punch. IT CRITS AND CONFUSES. Now, I'm like "YOU WILL DIIEEEE" and my Darmanitan tries to use Flare Blitz, but hurts itself in counfusion. After that, Miltank CRITS AGAIN, and my Darmanitan is gone for good. Now, I switch to Azumarill, and go for Waterfall, and Miltank tanks it like a pro (no pun intended). Then Miltank uses Thunder Punch, and Paralyzes me. I proceed to Waterfall again, but the Para Hax gods say "Let's make this man throw his DS into the wall!" Miltank outspeeds me because the Paralysis, and Thunder Punches me. And I use waterfall, but Paralysis won't let me move, so then Miltank kills me next turn. Now, it's all up to Garchomp. I go for the SD, and it works, but then it Ice Punches, and crits AND FREEZES Garchomp, I try to use Outrage, which was what was happening to me, but I'm frozen solid, and it KO's me with Ice Punch.

Maximum Streak: 13

 

[farranpoison]

PARAHAX IS NOT FUN.

I had my Mienshao fully paralyzed FOUR TIMES IN A ROW. The only reason it didn't die is because the opponent's Gardevoir somehow didn't know any attacking moves.

Seriously GameFreak, make a battle area where hax is RANDOM. Not giving an edge to the opponents please. Seriously, it doesn't make it a challenge; it makes it not fun.

 

[flashkickass]

i think they are banking on the fact that the subway will make you mad enough to throw your ds and have to buy a new one

 

[TorchicBlaziken]

So, who should be my After You user with Agility[Tailwind]/After You/Foresight/Helping Hand? Lopunny, or Togekiss? I might use Eviolite Togetic but it only has 202 speed even after Tailwind and it would mean I couldn't use Eviolite Porygon2.

 

[Akiyama]

The Subway scales up to level 50 as well as down, unfortunately :(

Didn't realize it scaled up. Thought it only scaled down to 50.. hrm. Poo. Level 1 aron would be fun.

Also, can I complain about something non-subway (sort of) related? Why is Nintendo so stupid? D: Why do they try to fix/add things that don't need fixing/adding? For example.. Wi-Fi battling. The whole 'no auto-level 100' thing has been noted often.. but heck, why no auto-50 without flat battles? I have some friends on another board that wanted to organize a tournament, but didn't realize that you only have "Free battle anything goes' rules or the '3 on 3 level 50' rules. 3 on 3 via Frontier/Subway is just no fun in a tourny like this, Nintendo. D: /rage

Sorry about the rant.

Also.. pissed off you can't wifi Co-op with a friend for BP. B/W just really fucks over a lot of wi-fi options, really.

 

[TorchicBlaziken]

Not Nintendo it's Game Freak.

 

[breh]

guys, the battle subway seems to cheat because it's just a lot of probability. Say, for example, I have a 99.6 chance of beating an opponent. It may seem like a loss is fairly unlikely. However, after 200 battles, the chance that I have not lost yet drops to 44% - it is probable for me to lose, eventually.

EDIT: @ Morm: note that I did not say "the chance that you will lose" but "the chance that I have not yet lost".

 

[Morm]

Probability is not cumulative. Every single time you battle is a 99.6% chance of winning (in this example), this is where a LOT of compulsive gamblers mess up.

 

[farranpoison]

There are also a lot of other factors that come into play that are clear that the Subway is doing some sort of hax. Take, for example, a High Jump Kick. It has a accuracy of 90%, which usually means it will hit 9 out of 10 times. Now, give the Pokemon a Wide Lens, which ups the accuracy of a move by 10% of its accuracy value. In HJK's case, it becomes 99% (unless I'm forgetting something).

There is a 0.01% chance that the 99% accuracy HJK will miss twice in a row. Pretty damn low, right? Now then WHY HAS THIS HAPPENED TO ME TWICE NOW.

Gaps, I say. Yukari's spellcard, I say.

 

[Jonathan]

^ Lol with those odds you'd have better luck running into two shinies. 1/8192 > 1/10000

Which actually happened to me like 5 years ago while playing LeafGreen, I ran into a Shiny Machop and then a Shiny Tentacool literally like 15 minutes later.

Anything is possible, and those ridiculous odds unfortunately don't prove anything. Though I do find it extremely unfair that the Subway has access to Salac Berry and co., and we don't. That's just bs.

 

[farranpoison]

More statistical fun. Being Fully paralyzed is a 25% chance. I have been fully paralyzed four times in a row, which comes up to be around 0.4% chance. Higher than my previous calculation, but seriously. Hax is not fun, TrollFreak. Let's use a real RNG generator next game, hm?

 

[Jonathan]

Probability is not cumulative. Every single time you battle is a 99.6% chance of winning (in this example), this is where a LOT of compulsive gamblers mess up.

It's true that on the 200th battle you still have a 99.6% chance of winning. But if you're starting from battle one, you need to realize you have a 44.8% chance of reaching the 200th battle.

 

[Zacchaeus]

I got my streak up to 31 but these new teams are surprisingly threatening. In generation 4 it seemed to be random Pokémon thrown together, but I wouldn't say that they randomly decided to put Tyranitar, Hippowdon, and Excadrill on the same team. Whether or not it was random, I got destroyed

Probability is not cumulative. Every single time you battle is a 99.6% chance of winning (in this example), this is where a LOT of compulsive gamblers mess up.

Yeah that's a common statistic fallacy. If you use a move with 85% accuracy and it misses, your accuracy on the next attack is still 85%.

 

[Dragon Rider]

I got my streak up to 31 but these new teams are surprisingly threatening. In generation 4 it seemed to be random Pokémon thrown together, but I wouldn't say that they randomly decided to put Tyranitar, Hippowdon, and Excadrill on the same team. Whether or not it was random, I got destroyed

No joke.I've played the super line three times now.The first was just a disaster.I severly underestimated the Subway and lost on like the fourth trainer.The second time I got to a streak of 26 but then got demolished by a Choice Band Dragonite that would just not react to parafusion at all.Then just tonight,I got to 34.The 35th guy leads with a Durant.Well I had already faced a couple that were Iron Defense/Agility/Baton Pass/Dig.So I'm thinking all I have to do is have Uxie Trick the Scarf and I can start setting up.Well he freakin X-Scissors my Uxie to death before it does anything more than that.I switch in my Drapion who manages to get +2 Evasion and +2 Defense and still gets wrecked by this stupid bug.Lucario takes it and a Slowking out but then loses to a Quagsire ending the spree.Must have been like 3 HP left on the stupid Quagsire to.Guess the game just decided I didn't need the points.Argh.

 

[Zacchaeus]

So this teams record is 31/34 so far, not too bad.

Say, Dragon Rider, (and anyone else who can contribute a good opinion,) I'm thinking about making some other backup sweepers and testing those out too, and see which one works the best. Right now we have special attacking Lucario, My next idea is Salamence but I really don't like that it would probably have to go mixed and rely on low accuracy moves. Also it would really help if it had a priority move. Ideas:
With priority: Dragonite, Carracosta, Azumarill, Cloyster, Breloom
Without priority: Garchomp, Salamence, Gorebyss, Gyarados

Keldeo would be great if it wasn't banned, and Conkeldurr will be great when it gets Iron Fist. Wait, damn. I guess Breloom will have to wait for Technician just like Conkeldurr

 

[farranpoison]

Doesn't Conkeldurr prefer Guts anyway?

 

[Zacchaeus]

Doesn't Conkeldurr prefer Guts anyway?

I think that Guts could provide more offensive ability, but since I'm going for power and survivability, I think that Iron Fist with Mach Punch and Drain Punch would work better. I'll do some calculations for this though

As far as backup sweepers go, sadly yeah I'll have to wait for Breloom too, but for the time being, AZUMARILL! How does this sound?

(My lead Uxie)

(My Acupressure Drapion)

Azumarill - Focus Sash
Adamant - Thick Fat (just kidding Huge Power)
244-252-4-0-4-4 (the EVs are like that because 252 HP provides only 1 point more to HP as opposed to taking those 8 extra EVs and getting 1 point towards both Def and SpD, the leftover 4 can only give me a Spe point)
Aqua Jet
Waterfall
Ice Punch
Superpower/Brick Break

 

[TorchicBlaziken]

But Iron Fist Conkeldurr don exits. Also... What After You user?

 

[Dragon Rider]

I didn't even realize I had quoted you Zacchaeus.Yeah I've been running the team and have been giving some thought to that Lucario.Lucario has been good and has saved me in a couple battles, but it seems like I lose mostly to ground attacks that really hurt my Drapion (if not set up) and Lucario doesn't help with that.Also really strong bug moves (like that Durant) also seem to stop me from setting up with Drapion.

I'm thinking either Dragonite or Salamence at this point.If I go with Salamence,I'm thinking either Mixed or Dragon Dance.I'm not sure about Dragonite.I like XSpeed/Fire Punch/Dragon Claw/Roost as a set but I'm not completely sure how well it would work since I don't have a Multiscale Dragonite.

Another one to consider if you really want priority could be SD Scizor.Its nuetral to ground but could absolutely destroy if it can get some SD in.Maybe the bulky SD/Roost/Bug Bite/Bullet Punch Scizor?Although Azumarill probably handles some of the ground attack users better and has more immediate power.Tough decision however you look at it.

@TorchicBlaziken I don't have any experience with After You but I looked at list and Loppuny is a very fast user of it.It also has Fake Out which is helpful in Doubles while also having some other nice moves for either offense or support.However, if you're looking to make something extremely slow move first Togekiss is also a great option.It has Follow Me too which means it could take a hit to let your other Poke setup and then use Follow You to let it attack right away.But this is all theorymon as I have 0 experience with the move.

 

[ERFN]

Quick dumb question, but does BP'ing work?
I'd like to try - for singles of course - a team of Whimsicott (Classic Taunt - Memento) followed by Umbreon. First off - is Mean Looking even necessary? Then act upon what is next in line - and then BP.

BP would end up on anything that can setup and won't be having much trouble with hax. First I thought of Volcarona, as it learns harden too, but crits would still hurt a lot.
Then I thought of Lapras and Drapion, with Drapion obviously being the better choice...
Other candidates include Acupressure Cradily due to Suction Cups - or Ferrothorn with Ingrain. But the point is moot if you tell me that Mean Look Passing doesn't work that well anyway...

 

[Dragon Rider]

Mean Look and Spider Web are no longer passable from what I have heard.However in the Subway,as long as the opponent isn't locked into a status,no effect battle move, or a set up move they won't switch.

 

[ERFN]

Okay, thanks. Damn Gamefreak. -_-

 

[BeatenByBulbasaur]

So decided to give my doubles rain dance team from last gen a spin. It was pretty successful last gen achieving a 234 streak or something similar, only losing to obscene hax. Currently at an easy 21 wins but can see weaknesses (mainly special defensive pokemon that resist surf).

Team is Vaporeon/Ludicolo/Kingdra/Zapdos.

Vaporeon @ Focus Sash
252 Def/252 SDef/4 HP
Bold

- Rain Dance
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Helping Hand

Ludicolo @ Lum Berry
252 SAtk/132HP/124 Speed
Modest

- Fake Out
- Surf
- Grass Knot
- Ice Beam

Kingdra @ Life Orb
252 Satk/228HP/4def/12Sdef/12 Speed
Modest

- Surf
- Dragon Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Draco Meteor

Zapdos @ Leftovers
252 HP/160 Def/92Sdef/4 Speed
Bold

- Thunder
- Rain Dance
- Protect
- Substitute

Idea is simple. Ludi normally fakes out the most dangerous enemy pokemon first turn, while Vaporeon sets up rain. Then Vaporeon either helping hands Ludi Surf or they double Surf. Kingdra hits unbelievably hard in the rain, and Zapdos allows me to stall out things that might otherwise wall me + provide me with a second dancer + thunder hits incredibly hard in the rain.

I know rain got a few more options this generation, namely Politoed, but I really don't see what he offers to this team outside drizzle. Getting rain up is never really a problem for me. Another thing I have heard is Thundurus doing good things, would he be a better option than Zapdos? Any other suggestions based on new changes to rain based teams I am obviously unaware about?

 

[farranpoison]

So I've been thinking of using a Bulk Up Scrafty... would it be more suitable in the lead spot or in reserve? And which of my current team should I replace it with, a Mienshao or Hydreigon? Mienshao is great in offense, and usually outspeeds a lot of pokes, but it is ungodly frail and gets outsped by the likes of Weavile and Gengar. Hydreigon is great and all, but it seems to get killed by a lot (though due mostly to mispredictions in my opponent's move choices) and if I replaced Mienshao with Scrafty, then I'd get another dark type and redundant weakness.

So I guess I'm gonna replace Mienshao with Scrafty, but then who would be a good partner for it? Not a wall, since I've already got Jellicent, but I may also be replacing him with a bulky Milotic; the fighting immunity is nice and all, but getting killed by speedy ghosts and dark pokes hurts.