Victini (Analysis)

[Warped Worlds]

"Try to avoid matching up with Tyraniar, though, since slower Pursuits can catch a U-turn user before it switches out for full damage"

If I recall correctly, that doesn't work anymore in gen 5.

 

[prem]

If I recall correctly, that doesn't work anymore in gen 5.

no it still works in gen 5, if not, its a glitch on the simulator

Psycho Shock makes this set not quite as helpless against premier special walls Blissey and Chansey, but keep in mind that it's also a significantly weaker option in dealing with Bulk Up Conkeldurr; if it's had the chance to boost, you're usually better off hitting it with a Fire attack.

also i personally dont think thats the best thing to do in that situation because if u use searing shot (which most do) u are basically asking to burn roobushin and then its much harder to check him later

 

[SJCrew]

As of April 16th, V-Create has been released in Japan, which opens up an entire can of worms for Victini. I will definitely be adding a Choice Band set, but I think there's a lot more you can do with V-create. Right now, I have plans for Physical Life Orb, Trick Room, and Mixed. Any thoughts?

 

[Majora_younglink]

I think a choice scarf set would work really well with V-Create. With that magical base 100 speed it'll speed tie most other scarfers in the metagame so you can go for the attack pretty safely and possibly even twice because the choice scarf negates one of the speed downs from using it.

Something like...

252 Speed/252 Atk/4 Sp Def

V-Create
Zen Headbutt
Brick Break
U-Turn

Probably would work. Every move there is pretty self explanatory. V-Create for massive damage, Zen Headbutt for stab consistent damage, Brick Break for all those annoying dark types and heatrans that might want to switch in on your attacks, and finally U-Turn for scouting.

Probably needs spin support to work well though since the -25% switch in hurts its effectiveness otherwise. Then sun support just makes the whole thing overkill.

 

[Husky]

I think this will be the most used set around V-create:

Item: Choice Scarf
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Moves:
- V-create
- Zen Headbutt
- Fusion Bolt
- U-Turn

» Many people seem to pass, that the event Victini also learns both Fusion Bolt and Fusion Flare. FF is obviously just a minor version of Searing Shot but FB is incredibly useful with base 100 power and accuracy while there's no annoying recoil damage as Wild Charge has. Fire and Electric also offer pretty nice neutral coverage, as it's able to deal with most Water-types this way. Zen Headbutt for secondary STAB, U-Turn for obvious reasons (Scarf).

 

[Majora_younglink]

Isn't it a bit silly to not run a +speed nature on a scarf set with all the other pokemon around that will outspeed you if you lose your scarf somehow or they have a scarf themselves? I don't see the attack increase from adamant being worth the decreased speed unless it gives any notable KOs.

As for Fusion Bolt... Well. Didn't know it got the move. That'll definitely be a high option in possible sets. I would say it would still warrant merit along with Brick Break though due to Victini's common switch ins being dark types and Heatran.

 

[Sprocket]

I think every V-Create set needs these two moves:

-V-Create
-Fusion Bolt

V-Create being the most powerful move that Victini has. Fusion Bolt complementing the fact that Victini will be a physical attacker, and gives it the strongest physical Electric attack short of Volt Tackle and Bolt Strike.

The other two moves are very flexible, and really you could put anything you want in the other two slots. Victini's physical move set is large enough that you have a few options open to you. Other notable physical moves include: Quick Attack, Zen Headbutt (99% accuracy thanks to Victini's ability), Brick Break, Flame Charge, and U-Turn.

 

[SJCrew]

Oh wow, I completely forgot that Fusion Bolt was a physical move. And here I was thinking it was just a slightly more powerful Thunderbolt. That'll definitely be a staple on physical sets.

I'm thinking there needs to be two offensive Scarf sets: one physical, one special. This would bring the tally up to three. One would probably argue that V-create would make the special set outclassed by a sheer mile, but don't forget that it lowers your speed and defenses, making it bad for lategame cleanup. Also, you'll need full Sp. Att EVs for HP Ice to do anything to Garchomp and Gliscor.

 

[Sprocket]

The Uber Victini analysis has some wicked bad ass sets.

 

[Gamester]

Hey this is my first post and I've got a set that may really make Victini a threat

[SET]
name: Trick Room Sweeper
move 1: V-Create
move 2: Zen Headbutt
move 3: Fusion Bolt
move 4: Trick Room
item: Wise Glasses/Leftovers
ability: Victory Star
nature: Brave
ivs: 0 Spe
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def

[SET COMMENTS]
So yeah this set has the potential to be the rebirth of Victini. I used to moan about V-create's speed drop but in this set it just makes you a monster.

So V-create is the crux of this set and is what basically gave me the idea, it is a destructive move. Zen Headbutt is for secondary stab. And Fusion Bolt provides great coverage.

So Wise Glasses just helps with the damage without sacrificing any hp. A Life Orb can be used but since you usually have to eat a hit it really shorts the amount of turns Victini has. Leftovers is so you can let Victini take a hit on the turn of set up, because he usually has to take 25% stealth rocks damage. Also an Air Balloon could be used for the ground and spikes/toxic spikes immunity which always helps.

Ideally you want to scare them to switch into a low defense fast sweeper like Gengar and trick room on the switch which allows for an easy V-create to get the speed drop and KO. Its best to have somebody else on the team ready to take advantage of trick room in-case Victini can't 1HKO every turn of trick room.

Hope you guys try this set its really fun and really original.

 

[Majora_younglink]

V-Create is not a special attack. Just saying. If you want to make a set based on trick room at least know what side V-Create hits from. Second off, I disagree with a trick room sweeper especially considering Tini just not slow enough to make use of it.

 

[Gamester]

Thanks for info about v-create. I was basing this off of pokemon online so yea... Anyways regardless of which side V-Create hits this set works just fine. While Victini may not be initially slow enough to take advantage of Trick Room the V-Create Speed drop helps out. the only time I can see something out-slowing Victini after a speed drop would be another poke designed to be on a trick room team.

 

[Sprocket]

Just some numbers for a trick room Victini:

Victini with a 0 speed IV and a negative nature hits 184 speed, and will outspeed the majority of the metagame under Trick Room (almost any Pokemon that invests for speed is outsped under Trick Room).

After a single V-Create, Victini's speed is 122, and after 2 V-Creates it's 92 speed. 92 speed is only out-sped under Trick Room by (in order of highest to lowest speed stat) Gigalith, Forretress, Bronzong, Reuniclus, and Ferrothorn, and they have to be explicitly designed to operate under Trick Room to do so. Gigalith might pose a problem thanks to its typing, high Defense stat, and Sturdy. Reuniclus will pose a problem due to its bulk and its ability to also operate under Trick Room very effectively. Forretress, Bronzong, and Ferrothorn are utterly decimated by Victini unless they EV very high for Defense. The best those three can hope to do is status Victini, switch out, or Explode. Forretress does have Sturdy, so it will survive a single V-Create as long as it switches in at full health, giving it a chance to Explode.

Trick Room Victini also has enough bulk to take a hit, set up Trick Room, and switch out to another Trick Room abuser if necessary.

248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def for EVs, to allow Victini to switch in on Stealth Rock four times without dying.

 

[am zane ok.]

After a single V-Create, Victini's speed is 122, and after 2 V-Creates it's 92 speed. 92 speed is only out-sped under Trick Room by (in order of highest to lowest speed stat) Gigalith, Forretress, Bronzong, Reuniclus, and Ferrothorn, and they have to be explicitly designed to operate under Trick Room to do so. Gigalith might pose a problem thanks to its typing, high Defense stat, and Sturdy. Reuniclus will pose a problem due to its bulk and its ability to also operate under Trick Room very effectively. Forretress, Bronzong, and Ferrothorn are utterly decimated by Victini unless they EV very high for Defense. The best those three can hope to do is status Victini, switch out, or Explode. Forretress does have Sturdy, so it will survive a single V-Create as long as it switches in at full health, giving it a chance to Explode.

Gigalith is EXTREMELY rare. I've never seen one, that's for sure.

Bronzong, Forretress, and Ferrothorn often run Speed decreasing natures regardless, in order to power up Gyro Ball. Besides Forretress, all are OHKOed even with 252 HP / 252 Def and a Defense boosting nature. Forretress can only deal 32.75% - 38.71% with Earthquake, assuming the standard sets.

Life Orb Victini's V-Generate does 71.46% - 83.73% to 252 HP / 252 Def Impish Reuniclus. Meanwhile, this Reuniclus can only do 40.69% - 48.14% to Victini, using your spread. Reuniclus can lose, depending on your Speed's decreased amount. If not, it can easily be killed by something else at that health.

So that's uhh...

[SET]
name: Trick Room
move 1: Trick Room
move 2: V-Create
move 3: Fusion Bolt
move 4: Brick Break / Zen Headbutt
item: Life Orb
nature: Brave
evs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def
ivs: 0 Spe

Right? Cool. V-Create is such an awesome move, considering it still does good damage against things that resist it.

I'm excited for Victini. I love it when cute Pokémon are strong.

-Zane

 

[SJCrew]

Yeah, Victini's the best. I was actually really excited the last guy dropped him and reserved him on the spot, ha ha ha.

If there are no objections, the above will be our Trick Room set.

 

[Cipher Admin Lovrina]

Might I suggest Thunder as an option if one opts to use Fire Blast on the support Set?

 

[SJCrew]

Tyranitar and Heatran are too common to give up Focus Blast, so I'll have to say no.

 

[Majora_younglink]

I don't know, I still feel like V-Create Trick Room tini is still a bit of a gimmick considering you need to be able to survive the hit from whatever, TR, and then hit back hard for the OHKO or such. SR weakness doesn't help its case either since that means it will have 25% of its health shaved off if it ever is forced to switch out for any reason which isn't that hard considering that huge amount of dragons in OU at the moment who can take any hit and threaten to OHKO it with their hit.

I would say its worth an OC mention but maybe not a full set on it. Though this is all according to me, QC checkers might be better off in seeing if it has any merit.

 

[am zane ok.]

I don't know, I still feel like V-Create Trick Room tini is still a bit of a gimmick considering you need to be able to survive the hit from whatever, TR, and then hit back hard for the OHKO or such. SR weakness doesn't help its case either since that means it will have 25% of its health shaved off if it ever is forced to switch out for any reason which isn't that hard considering that huge amount of dragons in OU at the moment who can take any hit and threaten to OHKO it with their hit.

I was thinking about it some more, and realized that Trick Room Victini can still run Hidden Power Ice, considering it's not using a Special Attack decreasing nature. I was thinking...

[SET]
name: Trick Room
move 1: Trick Room
move 2: V-Create
move 3: Fusion Bolt
move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Brick Break
item: Life Orb
nature: Brave
evs: 208 HP / 252 Atk / 52 SpA OR 144 HP / 252 Atk / 112 SpA
ivs: 2 Spe

The EVs of the first spread give Hidden Power Ice a 100% chance of killing Salamence, with a Life Orb equipped. The second spread allows for a OHKO on 4 HP Garchomp with Stealth Rock damage. It also allows for a 2HKO on Latios with Stealth Rock, but this is only relevant really if Victini has already pulled off a Trick Room and can catch Latios on the switch-in. While it only takes 48 and 108 SpA EVs to KO Salamence (without Stealth Rock) and Garchomp (with Stealth Rock), the remaining 4 EVs are thrown into SpA to do a point or two more damage to Latios, Latias, etc. The HP EVs for both sets allow for an odd numbered HP, in order to switch into Stealth Rock four times. I think the second spread is preferred, really, considering how threatening Garchomp is (Ground-type STAB... Greeeeaaaat). Oh, and lastly, the 2 Spe IVs allow for max stats in everything else, while maintaining a 70 BP Hidden Power Ice at minimum Speed. Oh, and Brick Break is still an option to 2HKO offensive Heatran (with 100% accuracy, rather than 77%). Zen Headbutt was removed due to the fact that V-Create does more damage when not very effective, compared to neutral damaging Zen Headbutt. However, the ability to flinch from Zen Headbutt is pretty cool, along with the lack of reduction of defenses. So it may at least be worth an AC mention. But Hidden Power Ice is prioritized considering the threat of Dragon-types to this guy. Oh, and clearly, if not using Hidden Power, 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def with 0 Spe IVs is best.

So Victini's ability to KO some dragons is a cool plus-side to this set, since Choice Band obviously doesn't help special damage.

Obviously, Victini's going to have problems with Dragonite, Latios, Latias, and Hydreigon. But pretty much every Victini variant has trouble with these guys anyhow.

-Zane

P.S. Who knows. Maybe it'll be the next new anti-metagame hit! (Move over Reuniclus!)

 

[Chou Toshio]

So now that the Japanese V-Create Victini is out, and Blaziken is banned, would a physical sweeper set be considered?

 

[SJCrew]

I don't know, I still feel like V-Create Trick Room tini is still a bit of a gimmick considering you need to be able to survive the hit from whatever, TR, and then hit back hard for the OHKO or such. SR weakness doesn't help its case either since that means it will have 25% of its health shaved off if it ever is forced to switch out for any reason which isn't that hard considering that huge amount of dragons in OU at the moment who can take any hit and threaten to OHKO it with their hit.

I would say its worth an OC mention but maybe not a full set on it. Though this is all according to me, QC checkers might be better off in seeing if it has any merit.

I used to think the same thing too. Until it swept my ass on PO.

A bigger issue with this Victini I didn't think of before was competing with Trick Room Reuniclus. Reuniclus' issues with sweeping are usually limited to whether you'd feel safer with Psycho Shock or Focus Blast. If I had to choose between the two, I'd probably use Reuniclus all the time. Easier to set up, slower than most walls, and can get through a team easier without having to weaken it severely.

For now, I'm just going to focus my efforts on writing the Physical Attacker set, which is almost done, and revamping the Other Options section. Everything else is a 'maybe'.

 

[Majora_younglink]

@am zane I like that set you put up a lot more. That I could see becoming a standard set sometime in the future even considering the prominence of pokemon like Heatran that will give it hell.

 

[am zane ok.]

I don't know. I mean, it is obviously comparable as a Psychic-type Trick Room user. But they're completely different, to me. Victini's got that Fire-typing, grabbing it some useful special resistances and bad physical weaknesses, a super powerful physical Fire-type STAB move, a MUCH better offensive movepool, low enough speed to use Trick Room, etc etc... The fact that it can go mixed or physical rather than solely special is enough differentiation for me, honestly. Victini is cuter, anyways.

@Majora I'd rather be checked by one threat (Heatran) than a lot of 'em (Dragon-types). For that reason, maybe something like Rotom-W would be useful as a team mate, considering it's more or less a hard counter to Heatran.

-Zane

 

[Gamester]

Ok, didn't know about the stealth rock thing hp spread thing. Does it round down the damage?
Thanks for the info and minor improvements on the set am zane I wasn't sure how to utilize hp ice though I did consider it
Running this set on a drought team has proved very effective so I think it's a good sun set.

Glad you guys like the set or at least the idea of it. It's cool how my set got everybody hype for Victini again.

 

[SJCrew]

I'm glad you took the liberty of putting it in writing, but Trick Room Victini has been floating around on the PO server long before Smogonites caught wind of it. V-create doesn't seem to have made much of an impact there, since it's still decidedly UU (and #1 in usage, at that), but that could be because of the larger emphasis placed on the Dream World tier over there, where everything is stupidly strong and Blaziken is still OU.

And besides, I had a Trick Room set planned before you even said anything, lol.