Its typing I guess?
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In-Game Tier List Discussion
- Thread starter Colonel M
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That isn't enough of a reason really. You have to go out of your way to get it, and you don't have access to it until very late. Just off of those things, it shouldn't be high.
Cobalion is high because it roflstomps most everything from then on. Seventh and Eighth gym, Grimsley, Shauntal, and you get it at a very high level at a late time, but it is very useful from when you get it.
Oh for Petes sake, not this argument again...
And here we have our first main reason why Joltik isn't in High. Before Joltik gets good, it has to go through at least 9 levels of mediocrity, and training in Chargestone Cave isn't exactly feasible unless you're training solely on Klink and other Joltik, as Boldore kills Joltik easily and Ferroseed walls it to hell and back. Joltiks poor Attack and Special Attack, as well as many of the trainers having Pokemon which murder Joltik (if you mention Tirtouga and Archen, I'll murder you, Ancientpower and Acrobatics from them will KO Joltik) really don't help it as far as this goes. When you get to Mistralton, the situation gets slightly better due to Celestial Tower having Elgyem and other Pokes to train against, but even then, many trainers in there can beat Joltik fairly easily. Its big break comes in the Mistralton Gym, where there are many Flying types which you can beat easily, but even then, the fact of Joltik having to go through hell trying to train until the Gym, as well as having really bad stats for the time, cement it in Upper Mid. I'm not denying that Galvantula is pretty damn awesome, but getting it to level 36 isn't.
Also, if Cobalion comes "way too late" to be High, Joltik does as well, since many people here have claimed that Sigilyph (which may I add is before Gym 4, Joltik is before Gym 6) comes too late to be High, so where does this place Joltik? Not to mention, despite coming late, Cobalion more than pulls it weight for when you get it, as it should be stronger than the rest of your party and also stronger than the 7th gym WITHOUT TRAINING. Unlike Joltik, Cobalion requires no training to flatten the opposition when you get it, it is pretty much the epitome of an "easy mode" Pokemon. However, I might move it back down to Upper Mid if enough people say so, since it does require a detour to find and it can also be a bit of a bastard to catch.
Okay if i am the only one who knows how much Dwebble rapes boss battles, especially the end game ones, then i guess Upper Mid is fine, but i still beieve high is best. As a Dwebble it's not even that bad. It'll get some really good Exp. from the gym, and most trainers in the desert, and after all that, it doesn't need to go much further to evolve. SO saying it is bad before evolution is a lie, unless you just happened to get a Modest one with 0 atk 1vs.
If we won't move Dwebble to High, what bout Sewaddle? Sewaddle is awesome.It got's two good STABS when you get it (Razor Leaf, Bug Bite), and it's already bout it evolve. You can train it in Pinwheel forest, then after that, you can train it with those Basculins, and maybe Sandile grind if nessecary. And, if i hear one person mention that happiness evolotiun being a bad thing, i'll kill you. The happiness evo is actually a good thing. It means that it'll be evolving from Swadloon very soon, and even as a Swadloon, it's a great Pokemon. It kills Burgh's Leavanny easily (seeing how his Leavanny is evolved at lvl 23, that should you how easy it is to evolve). Then, once you get to Driftveil city, Leavanny destroys the gym, even with moves with low bp such as Razor Leaf. You won'y have to be keeping those weak STABS long, cuz at the next city, you get the TM for X-Scissor, then at lvl 39, Leaf Blade. Leaf Blade and X-Scissor coming off an impressive 105 base atk should destroy shit.
If you want a Grass type on your team, i recommend Leavanny, it's better than all else (better than you too, Petilil). Leavanny is, at the least, Upper Mid, but i want High. Maybe it's just cause i love bug Pokemon so much, idk, but Leavanny is great.
Discuss!
If we won't move Dwebble to High, what bout Sewaddle? Sewaddle is awesome.It got's two good STABS when you get it (Razor Leaf, Bug Bite), and it's already bout it evolve. You can train it in Pinwheel forest, then after that, you can train it with those Basculins, and maybe Sandile grind if nessecary. And, if i hear one person mention that happiness evolotiun being a bad thing, i'll kill you. The happiness evo is actually a good thing. It means that it'll be evolving from Swadloon very soon, and even as a Swadloon, it's a great Pokemon. It kills Burgh's Leavanny easily (seeing how his Leavanny is evolved at lvl 23, that should you how easy it is to evolve). Then, once you get to Driftveil city, Leavanny destroys the gym, even with moves with low bp such as Razor Leaf. You won'y have to be keeping those weak STABS long, cuz at the next city, you get the TM for X-Scissor, then at lvl 39, Leaf Blade. Leaf Blade and X-Scissor coming off an impressive 105 base atk should destroy shit.
If you want a Grass type on your team, i recommend Leavanny, it's better than all else (better than you too, Petilil). Leavanny is, at the least, Upper Mid, but i want High. Maybe it's just cause i love bug Pokemon so much, idk, but Leavanny is great.
Discuss!
Cicada, I'm going to get a Dwebble, EV it in 100 each stat (except SpA obviously) with vitamins (so it's kinda like in-game), level it to.. 68, and fight the second-round E4 with it, so I can see what you're talking about when you say "it's awesome".
I'm also gonna try a few others, all from 67-70.
I'm also gonna try a few others, all from 67-70.
How hard is it to Volt Change out of things that can counter you?
And no, nothing in Mistralton "beats Joltik easily". In both of my runs, Joltik was perfectly fine taking on whatever the gym had, and neither of mine were good natured.
Sigilyph fizzles out at the end (it will lose to anything on Marshal's team despite having two STABs that are SE against Fighting) and it performs poorly in the E4 otherwise. I never claimed Sigi comes too late, I only said it starts to become much less useful towards the end of the game.
Cobalion comes far too late in the game. Period. Something that's high tier needs to be around for longer than that, and you shouldn't have to go that far out of the way to get it.
Well, by that logic, Reshiram/Zekrom would be low-tier if they were actually tiered at all.
And I would agree with that entirely, because saving a team slot for them is a pretty bad idea because it hampers your team overall throughout the entire game, minus the last two battles.
Throwing in a little support for Munna. For me it's biggest selling point was Yawn + Moonlight combo, which proved to be EXTREMELY useful for catching wild Pokemon (Legendaries included, especially since you resist Musketeers fighting STAB and Musharna is very bulky). She also does pretty well against Marshall, who is considered one of the toughest of the Elites. However, it's true that a lot of Pokemon, particularly Team Plasma's Sandiles and Watchogs, either carry Dark type moves or are Dark-types themselves, so Munna/sharna either ends up outsped and hit hard or completely walled, since she doesn't learn any non-Psychic moves until... Irricus City I think (whenever Shadow Ball becomes available). Bringing Munna up to level 37 can be quite a pain too, thankfully Eviolite exists.
tl;dr - Munna for Low Mid please.
tl;dr - Munna for Low Mid please.
Okay, I used Crustle, Sawk, Throh, Seismitoad, Swanna and Scrafty. Swanna just died a lot and I didn't really need Sawk (Except for Sturdy + Counter on Mienshao), and Crustle was suprisingly good. It almost swept Shauntal and Caitlin, but if you don't have Earthquake for Caitlin's Metagross (I didn't have it, I had Flail), then it stops you mid-sweep by being neutral to your best attack and hitting you with SE BP. I tried to sweep Marshal with it but Breloom survived +2 X-Scissor and Effect Spore activated, which Paralyzed me so I had to switch out. At the beginning of the fight with Shauntal, I used Throh because I thought Cofagrigus always used WoW on physical attackers, but it used Psychic first which caught me off-guard, but I pretty much swept her with it even with all the random Psychic-users she has. Scrafty swept Grimsley obviously, with Seismitoad being useful for late-game cleaning.
Against Alder, I almost lost to Accelgor (Bug-Buzzed Crustle, Energy-Balled Seismitoad, Energy-Balled Swanna, and killed Sawk while its Stone Edge missed and it would've killed Scrafty with Focus Blast), but Throh came in, killed it with Stone Edge, then set up on Escavalier and just swept his entire team.
Overall, I'd say Dwebble is pretty good, and so is Throh. The only bad thing I could see about them is their rarity (In the desert, I found like 4 Maractus, 15 Sandile, 3 Sigilyph and like 10 Darumaka, then I found one single Dwebble and it had Shell Armor..), and training them through the amount of time before they get their good moves.
Funny, because when I read that, I thought this-
But I agree that Upper-mid is best for Joltik. Not for the reasons you stated, but for the simple fact that the other things that should be in High are amazing, while Joltik is merely great.
I think Joltik for Upper Mid is perfect for it because it's good to use but not great and coming after 5 gyms is decently late.
Dwebble debate still going, I see? I guess it's time to restart Black and see what I can test, I always wanted to test Snivy anyway... Munna will get in that test too along with another thing or two we've been debating off and on (read: Pidove) so maybe I can help get some insight there.
I'd lean Cobalion for Upper Mid too like Joltik but I don't have experience for Cobalion.
Dwebble debate still going, I see? I guess it's time to restart Black and see what I can test, I always wanted to test Snivy anyway... Munna will get in that test too along with another thing or two we've been debating off and on (read: Pidove) so maybe I can help get some insight there.
I'd lean Cobalion for Upper Mid too like Joltik but I don't have experience for Cobalion.
Did you use Simipour vs. Elesa? It actually cleaned up her team for me: it outsped her Emolgas and killed them with Scald (they had about 60% each) and 2HKO Zebstrika with it (it survived Spark).
breh
強いだね
Just a note, but note that if you choose to use munna, you need to use a moon stone after it learns psychic (around the tower near the 6th gym) for it to be any good. Give it the eviolite before that.
I personally think that 3 Mid Tiers is much more useful than 2 Low Tiers. The only real difference between the two Low tiers is that one sucks and the other sucks worse. They both basically say "don't use this Pokemon". An extra Mid tier helps prevent Upper Mid from getting too crowded, which is what will eventually happen when people keep arguing their personal preferences.
Here's where I'd start (Lower Mid is a little fuller than I'd like, but it's a start, anyways):
High:
Drilbur
Darumaka
Archen
Scraggy
Sawk
Petilil
Oshawott
Lillipup
Throh
Timburr
Joltik
Sigilyph
Upper Mid:
Panpour (Really good for most of the game, but loses steam late)
Tepig
Sandile
Sewaddle
Minccino
Blitzle
Roggenrola
Dwebble (I'm still not convinced this isn't just Mid, but I can live with Upper Mid)
Mid:
Tympole
Venipede
Deerling
Pansage
Vanillite
Axew
Pidove
Basculin
Cobalion (He's decent, but comes late, requires backtracking, and sucks to catch)
Lower Mid:
Snivy
Emolga
Cottonee
Ducklett
Frillish (He's late, but he's not that bad)
Patrat
Litwick
Tirtouga
Maractus
Solosis
Klink
Druddigon
Golett
Mienfoo
Gothita
Ferroseed
Low:
Durant
Cubchoo
Yamask
Munna
Pansear
Woobat
Pawniard
Trubbish
Karrablast
Elgyem
Cryogonal
Bouffalant
Foongus
Audino
Virizion
Terrakion
Tornadus
Thundurus
Alomomola
Shelmet
Stunfisk
Rufflet
Vullaby
Tynamo
Purrloin
Heatmor
Deino
Larvesta
No discussion of Sewaddle? =o
Do I have to? We've already had that argument and it wasn't pretty.
There was some Leavanny discussion a while back IIRC.
Well, i belive it deserves high. It IS the best grass type in the game =/
Be careful, you may upset the Lilligant fanboys.
i thought Lilligant had a lot of hate going on it?
Besides, Leaf Blade hits harder than Lily's Giga Drain, and Leavanny has way better covergae.
Besides, Leaf Blade hits harder than Lily's Giga Drain, and Leavanny has way better covergae.
Lilligant is garbage :P
Terrible STAb, no place to train. Slow as fuck. Has to boost to do damage. i quoted Col. m a few pages ago if you want specifics.
Terrible STAb, no place to train. Slow as fuck. Has to boost to do damage. i quoted Col. m a few pages ago if you want specifics.
Petilil starts gaining a ton of EXP once you hit Castelia due to all the Basculin trainers (they're in Castelia and the desert). Once you hit Nimbasa and evolve it with the Sun Stone, it will start OHKO-ing pretty much everything neutral to grass with Giga Drain. You shouldn't be using Quiver Dance at all. However, notice the "neutral to grass" part. Yes, Liligant is cursed with a bad offensive stab type-wise. I'm not saying Petilil is as amazing as say Archen, but it clearly is not garbage. It definitely is decent enough to be upper-mid.
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