With Team Preview for TR to work it has to be a lot more subtle so that your opponent feels less need to choose hard TR counters and a way of stopping Imprison (although that's harder than it sounds) needs to be incorporated.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Ask a simple question, get a simple answer - VGC edition
- Thread starter makiri
- Start date
- Status
Are there any reliable ways of stopping Imprison other than either (a) Imprisoning Imprison with a faster Imprisoner, and (b) going all-out offensive against the offending Chandelure? Phazing, perhaps?
Taunt, but you still have to be faster, or Prankster.
It seems like Trick Room is by far the most popular strategy this year... is this the case?
Also, if you don't play Trick Room, do you pretty much lose to Tailwind teams?
Also, if you don't play Trick Room, do you pretty much lose to Tailwind teams?
actually, trick room seems to just be dying because of team preview. it is so easy to beat. trick room is super unpopular right now. you just start with imprison chandy and win.
there are also ways to beat tailwind, although it can be tricky. prankster+trick+taunt works and fake out can slow the strategy a little. Just consider it when building a team and you should be fine.
there are also ways to beat tailwind, although it can be tricky. prankster+trick+taunt works and fake out can slow the strategy a little. Just consider it when building a team and you should be fine.
Why am I so bad at this!?
So my online doubles record is something like 12-36. And I realize that this is a somewhat poor proxy for VGC, since non Unova pokes are allowed, but still. I suck. Any pointers on the following team?
Thundurus (Mild) - Life Orb
Hammer Arm
Discharge
Dark Pulse
Fly
Excadrill (Jolly) - Ground Gem
Giga Impact
X-scissor
Earthquake
Rockslide
Hydreigon (Modest) - Normal Gem
Hyper Voice
Flamethrower
Surf
Draco Meteor
Haxorus (Adamant) - Choice Scarf
Brick Break
Rockslide
Outrage
Earthquake
Terrakion (Adamant) - Rock Gem
Quick guard
Quick attack
Rockslide
Close Combat
Whimsicott (Timid) - Sitrus Berry/Focus Sash
Tailwind
Beatup
Taunt
Trick Room
I had some success last year with a Zapchomp team, and then a ZapGroudon team, so I thought that a similar attempt with a Thundurus/Excadrill team would work. But wow, was I wrong. Any way to fix those two leads? Scarf the excadrill? Ditch excadrill for a Landorus?
Also, I transitioned to a Terrakion/Whimsicott beatup/justified combo. I like them as starters, but I'm getting easily beaten by all different kinds of teams.
I'd rather not make a TR team because the team preview seems to weaken the surprise.
Any help would be appreciated. I don't want to rule the world - just have a winning record online. I close my DS in disgust nightly at how sucky I am. I may (shock!!) start playing a different game (never did finish Spirit Tracks....)
So my online doubles record is something like 12-36. And I realize that this is a somewhat poor proxy for VGC, since non Unova pokes are allowed, but still. I suck. Any pointers on the following team?
Thundurus (Mild) - Life Orb
Hammer Arm
Discharge
Dark Pulse
Fly
Excadrill (Jolly) - Ground Gem
Giga Impact
X-scissor
Earthquake
Rockslide
Hydreigon (Modest) - Normal Gem
Hyper Voice
Flamethrower
Surf
Draco Meteor
Haxorus (Adamant) - Choice Scarf
Brick Break
Rockslide
Outrage
Earthquake
Terrakion (Adamant) - Rock Gem
Quick guard
Quick attack
Rockslide
Close Combat
Whimsicott (Timid) - Sitrus Berry/Focus Sash
Tailwind
Beatup
Taunt
Trick Room
I had some success last year with a Zapchomp team, and then a ZapGroudon team, so I thought that a similar attempt with a Thundurus/Excadrill team would work. But wow, was I wrong. Any way to fix those two leads? Scarf the excadrill? Ditch excadrill for a Landorus?
Also, I transitioned to a Terrakion/Whimsicott beatup/justified combo. I like them as starters, but I'm getting easily beaten by all different kinds of teams.
I'd rather not make a TR team because the team preview seems to weaken the surprise.
Any help would be appreciated. I don't want to rule the world - just have a winning record online. I close my DS in disgust nightly at how sucky I am. I may (shock!!) start playing a different game (never did finish Spirit Tracks....)
Excadrill isn't that good without sand support, especially with Fighting-types all over the place (and don't use Giga Impact, either way). I'd definitely consider Landorus instead. Also, you should probably put Protect in there somewhere. That's all I can think of off the top of my head without testing it myself.
Edit: didn't really look at the natures the first time through. Speed is crucial, and most mons I've seen are running Max+, so you should definitely consider +Spe natures on the ones that don't have them, except maybe Haxorus.
Edit: didn't really look at the natures the first time through. Speed is crucial, and most mons I've seen are running Max+, so you should definitely consider +Spe natures on the ones that don't have them, except maybe Haxorus.
Two things clearly standing out are:
1) lack of Protect together with Hydreigon having Surf and Haxorus potentially locking into Earthquake (and Excadrill and Terrakion being weak to it). More on Surf later, but yeah, you should have Protect on all your non-Choice pokemon. Maybe Whimsicott can get by without Protect if you really feel all 4 moves are that useful.
2) Surf with no immunity isn't good, but what's even worse is Normal Gem unSTAB Hyper Voice for Hydreigon? I understand Hyper Voice hits both targets, but it really isn't that useful, hitting nothing for super effective and resisted by a few fairly common VGC pokemon (Chandelure, Jellicent, Terrakion, Bisharp, etc.)... Surf is ok since at least it's resisted by Haxorus and Whimsicott, but Surf is primarily used only on Hydreigon because of Jellicent (Water Absorb) and Musharna (Telepathy). STAB Dark Pulse covers Psychics and ghosts better. That said. Dark Pulse IS an egg move, so if you don't want to breed again, sure, your choice of course. I'd still get rid of Hyper voice for Protect and replace item with White Herb (for Draco Meteor) or something like that.
EDIT: Also, yes Terrakion definitely needs to be Jolly. And to be honest, I don't know what's going on with Thundurus. All I can really say about that is I'd probably want Thunderbolt somewhere there regardless of whether or not I'm keeping Discharge.
1) lack of Protect together with Hydreigon having Surf and Haxorus potentially locking into Earthquake (and Excadrill and Terrakion being weak to it). More on Surf later, but yeah, you should have Protect on all your non-Choice pokemon. Maybe Whimsicott can get by without Protect if you really feel all 4 moves are that useful.
2) Surf with no immunity isn't good, but what's even worse is Normal Gem unSTAB Hyper Voice for Hydreigon? I understand Hyper Voice hits both targets, but it really isn't that useful, hitting nothing for super effective and resisted by a few fairly common VGC pokemon (Chandelure, Jellicent, Terrakion, Bisharp, etc.)... Surf is ok since at least it's resisted by Haxorus and Whimsicott, but Surf is primarily used only on Hydreigon because of Jellicent (Water Absorb) and Musharna (Telepathy). STAB Dark Pulse covers Psychics and ghosts better. That said. Dark Pulse IS an egg move, so if you don't want to breed again, sure, your choice of course. I'd still get rid of Hyper voice for Protect and replace item with White Herb (for Draco Meteor) or something like that.
EDIT: Also, yes Terrakion definitely needs to be Jolly. And to be honest, I don't know what's going on with Thundurus. All I can really say about that is I'd probably want Thunderbolt somewhere there regardless of whether or not I'm keeping Discharge.
mattj
blatant Nintendo fanboy
djbeardo, start by reading the guide to double battles. Best of luck man.
The problem with out right killing it is that most TRers' best answer to Chande is Shadow Ball, which also gets Imprisoned. I haven't tried phazing, but that seems viable since the phazer will still go before your Trick Roomer, and the phazer could also be used to stop rival TR teams that happen to use slower Pokes. I haven't seen any Mental Herb Imprison Chandes yet, so Taunt is probably your best answer, especially because another popular way to deal with TR is for non-TR teams to have Amoonguss as a lead. Where's Scrappy Fake Out Kangaskhan when ya need him? lol
Oh and as far as faster Imprisoners go, Swoobat, Zoroark, and Landorus are your only options outside of a Choice Scarf. To be completely protected, I'd want to Imprison Shadow Ball as well (assuming your TRer is weak to Ghost), so that leaves you with Swoobat and Zoroark. Team Preview kind of screws up Zoro and Swoobat is, well, Swoobat. Also, Shadow Ball is kind of wasted on Zoro because his STAB covers the exact same types Ghost does.
I ran a pretty odd set with a Jellicent and Cinccino, where Cinccino would use After You to guarantee TR would get up, but what often happened is my pokes would just get hammered after setting TR up and it'd be a 2 on 4 match. Cinccino was generally kind of worthless once TR got up as well. Can't really afford that in 4 on 4 matches. I did have a lot of people assume I was going to Fake Out with Cinccino, which is hilarious since he doesn't learn that move (definitely not a purple monkey, guys).
My question is: Are there any good Gen 5 Damage Calcs around? Also, how does the competition on Skarm's VGC server compare to the actual Regionals?
This is the best Gen5 damanage calculator that I've seen so far:
http://masara.byethost15.com/SilverlightDmgCalcTestPage.html
http://masara.byethost15.com/SilverlightDmgCalcTestPage.html
There's also the option of a speedy flinging of Razor Fang / King's Rock for flinching, but of course, having that speeding fling user means that user itself is probably not good in trick room.
Somebody else pointed out to this one: http://masara.byethost15.com/SilverlightDmgCalcTestPage.html which worked really well for me. Requires installation of Silverlight though.
EDIT: too slow. :(
There was another one someone else created on excel which did not work on my mac (but apparently should work great on Windows).
Whimsicott ^_-. I've actually been running that recently, but was keeping the strategy to myself until I stop using it lol.
Thanks, I'll have to check that out.
Can we use the items and berries we get in Dream World in the VGC matches?Official Regulations said:
Specifically, I don't think you can get Chople, Tanga, Kasib, Haban, or Babiri Berries in game, since the Pokémon who hold them (Buneary-line, Spoink-line, Duskull-line, Gible-line, and Snorunt-line, respectively) are unavilble outside of Dream World/PokéTransfer. These berries are rather easy to come across in the Dream World on people's Share Shelves (you automatically get 5 of one type of Super-Effective reducing berry the first time you log in), but I'm not sure if that counts as "received at an official Pokémon event or promotion..."
Has anyone had a positive experience with Final Gambit Accelgor (With other moves independent of attack stats, like Guard Split and Encore)? I like him and have only seen him on the highest win-count Free Battle teams, but I can't actually speak of his viability in VGC terms. What are your experiences, folks? Was he any good?
Accelgor is not very commonly used, due to the overwhelming amount of Tailwind and Trick Room and Prankster outspeeding him in every way. Accelgor is also weak to both Rock Slide and Heat Wave, two very common moves in the VGC metagame that can both be provided by ghosts (Golurk and Chandelure)
Without having used him myself I can't really comment on Final Gambit's usefulness. However, I can say at a glance it looks rather weak and more like an Explosion that does not hit both enemies.
I haven't used it, but it's been used against me, and with its high Speed it can Final Gambit and immediately take out a threat for its partner. (has to have base 80 HP or belower, assuming Accelgor has max HP)
Yeah so bad explanation of its uses sorry but it's not as bad as unreality says, at least I don't think so.
I tried Guard spilt with a Configias and its no good still weak def. A great Singles pokemon but so bad in doubles
Accelgor isn't all about Final Gambit. It's about the threat of Final Gambit taking out one of their more important Pokemon. And Encoring them after they try to Protect against Final Gambit.
Resist berries are allowed.
This is an extremely unlikely situation but...
What happens if you are at the very end of the competitors line, and by the time you get to the fourth round (right before the finalists lounge) everyone else has finished (they have either won all four matches or been eliminated)? Does he/she get a free win or is he/she forced to play someone?
EDIT: This scenario would arise in the first round with an odd amount of people (not sure why I thought it would happen in the 4th).
What happens if you are at the very end of the competitors line, and by the time you get to the fourth round (right before the finalists lounge) everyone else has finished (they have either won all four matches or been eliminated)? Does he/she get a free win or is he/she forced to play someone?
EDIT: This scenario would arise in the first round with an odd amount of people (not sure why I thought it would happen in the 4th).
This can only happen if two people both got DQed at the same time at some point which has never happened, but I'd imagine they'd give you a free win since there's nobody to fight. There are always an even number of competitors, I think.
- Status