Politoed (Analysis)

[Rakan]

Perhaps Protect should be slashed somewhere on the defensive set as some of its coverage moves aren't gonna be doing shit, even if it hits supereffectively. Protect can scout for stuff. It has been very helpful when I use it, especially in conjunction with Toxic stalling.

The set I used was:

Politoed@Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
Nature: Calm
Evs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
-Boil Over
-Encore
-Toxic
-Protect

Yea.

 

[for54years]

Added changes to reflect current state of suspect testing and English names for things.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

This analysis isn't the best written, the author isn't active enough, and Politoed's a really important Pokemon in this metagame. I'm closing this thread for the time being, and opening it up to getting a new author. Please understand that because this analysis is really important, I'm going to be rather selective in picking a new author, so I hope no one takes offense when I turn them down. If you think you're qualified for this, contact me on IRC or by forum PM.

EDIT: AccidentalGreed will be taking this over.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

There was a lot of thinking and writing to be made, but I finally finished Politoed's bullet points and sets. Because they have a less likely chance to be changed, I have also written the Overview, the Checks and Counters, and the Dream World section. EDIT: And I also wrote the Other Options due to Politoed not having many options to use either. Oh well.

I encourage onlookers to glance at the placement of Perish Song on the Defensive set. Do you think it is absolutely necessary for Perish Song to have its own slot and Encore a fourth option? I also want others to glance at the Offensive set; is Life Orb and a Timid nature necessary?

Other than these questions, I believe Politoed is ready for a good-old Quality Check! Let's get this done.

 

[Aerodactyl Legend]

Good stuff so far.

I never saw Perish Song being used much on the first set. I think Encore is much more aggravating for the opponent.

I think the offensive set should be changed into a pure Choice Specs set. Politoed is too slow and not strong enough to for an extended sweep in which it has the ability to freely change moves. Because of the nature of the weather game, switching your weather inducer in or out is common, so this plays well with the Specs attached. It also boost your water moves without the 10% recoil.

Last, I'm not too crazy about Hypnosis getting the main slash over Hidden Power Electric on the Scarf set.

 

[Cherub Agent]

I think that Rest should be an option. Politoed's main use is to keep the rain up. If he's dead and a Ttar ckmes in, it can be "goodbye Rain team". Therefore it doesn't really matter if he's asleep or not, so long as you can keep bringing him in

 

[AccidentalGreed]

I think that Rest should be an option. Politoed's main use is to keep the rain up. If he's dead and a Ttar ckmes in, it can be "goodbye Rain team". Therefore it doesn't really matter if he's asleep or not, so long as you can keep bringing him in

I'll think about it. Because Politoed doesn't have reliable recovery outside of Protect + Two turns of Leftovers, it could be a...considerable option. I''ll put it in the additional comments just because it's a recovery move.

I never saw Perish Song being used much on the first set. I think Encore is much more aggravating for the opponent.

Hm. Really. I'll put Encore next to Perish Song because of Eo's original Specially Defensive set, and yes, it's aggravating in general.

I think the offensive set should be changed into a pure Choice Specs set. Politoed is too slow and not strong enough to for an extended sweep in which it has the ability to freely change moves. Because of the nature of the weather game, switching your weather inducer in or out is common, so this plays well with the Specs attached. It also boost your water moves without the 10% recoil.

Point taken. I 'll mention other items and strategies in the AC. This has officially turned to Choice Specs.

Last, I'm not too crazy about Hypnosis getting the main slash over Hidden Power Electric on the Scarf set.

Me either, but what else can Politoed do with Hidden Power Electric besides hit the exclusively uncommon Gyarados and some frail Water-types? A fast sleep-inducing move could save a team, even though it's inaccurate. If need be, I won't hesitate to put Hidden Power Electric in the first slash, though.

EDIT: What do you guys think about these Choice Specs calculations? I hope you don't mind HTML:
<ul class="damage_calculations">
<li>Modest Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP Bold Blissey: 40.5% - 47.9%</li>
<li>Modest Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 216 SpD Careful Scizor: 93.6% - 110.8%</li>
<li>Modest Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Bold Reuniclus: 94.7% - 111.7%</li>
<li>Modest Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Bold Reuniclus (with a Calm Mind boost): 63% - 74.2% </li>
<li>Modest Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP Jolly Garchomp: 79.9% - 93.9%</li>
<li>Modest Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 224 SpD Careful Jirachi: 46% - 54.2%</li>
<li>Modest Hydro Pump vs. 4 SpD Timid Ninetales (in Sun): 87.8% - 103.1%</li>
<li> Modest Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Careful Tyranitar (in Sandstorm): 89.6% - 105.9%</li>
</ul>

 

[Eo Ut Mortus]

Discussed this with a few people:

-Reorder the sets. Specs > Scarf > Defensive. Disregard my previous post; Specs wasn't as dominant then as it is now.
-Change Hidden Power Electric to Grass for both Specs and Scarf; the latter hits Rotom-W and Gastrodon, while the former only hits Gyarados.
-Drop Hypnosis from both Specs and Scarf. Choiced 60% sleep isn't worth being walled by a bunch of Water-types. You can mention it in Scarf's AC that it disables Ferrothorn since you aren't hitting it as hard.
-Mention under the Specs set that you can run no/little Speed in exchange for bulk.
-Change the EV spread of the defensive set to Bold, 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD. Bold is preferable for switching into Tyranitar to change the weather, among other things like switching into Gliscor. Mention that it's possible to run a special defensive variant in the set comments.
-Change the set to the one I posted:

move 1: Boil Over
move 2: Hypnosis / Toxic
move 3: Encore / Perish Song
move 4: Ice Beam / Focus Blast

That's all I think. After you make these changes, and I run this by a few other people, I'll stamp this.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

Made the changes; thanks for the timely check, Eo!

 

[Iconic]

yeah i discussed this with eo and jabba and it looks good now

QC Approved 1/3

 

[Forte.EXE]

Is there any benefit to running so much Speed on the Choice Specs set? What exactly are you aiming to out-speed?

 

[AccidentalGreed]

Is there any benefit to running so much Speed on the Choice Specs set? What exactly are you aiming to out-speed?

Well, to be perfectly honest, I'm pretty unsure of the maximum Speed in the Choice Specs set myself.

Maximum Speed does allow Politoed to outrun those under the base 70 Speed range, notably some Tyranitar, Magnezone, and Scizor. As a plus, Politoed is also less likely to be countered by Breloom, as a Choice Specs Hydro Pump nearly OHKOes Breloom, and you need to beat it to the punch.

Actually, I'm pretty much leaning forward to investing in HP EVs, now that it comes to mind. Eo said to emphasize spreads with little or no Speed. Thoughts, QC?

By the way, thanks Iconic! (800th post. woohoo.)

 

[Majora_younglink]

I would suggest from my personal experience and opinion a set of 252 HP/252 Sp Atk/4 Sp Def (or Def) on any spec set that doesn't run timid. There just isn't anything really worth noting that Politoad will outspeed with the speed investment and it'd appreciate the extra bulk.

 

[shrang]

I would suggest from my personal experience and opinion a set of 252 HP/252 Sp Atk/4 Sp Def (or Def) on any spec set that doesn't run timid. There just isn't anything really worth noting that Politoad will outspeed with the speed investment and it'd appreciate the extra bulk.

I can attest to this spread, and you can also run Leftovers instead of Specs, as well. Something like this:

name: Bulky Attacker
move 1: Hydro Pump / Surf
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Focus Blast
move 4: Hidden Power Grass / Psychic
item: Leftovers / Choice Specs
nature: Modest
ability: Drizzle
evs: 232 HP / 252 SpA / 24 Spe

24 Spe allows you to outspeed Wobbuffet and avoid being into something stupid like Focus Blast.

You might notice I have included Psychic on that set, and I think it should get a slash on pretty much every offensive Politoed set, as it makes Toxicroak think twice about switching in, and this is one Pokemon who would otherwise be a huge nuisance to any rain team. If you're running Leftovers, you can just switch over to Psychic and kill it straight off (or break its Sub so it can't set up).

 

[PK Gaming]

No objections here! Good job.

QC APPROVED (2/3)

 

[AccidentalGreed]

No objections here! Good job.

QC APPROVED (2/3)

Cheers! Thanks, PK.

Now, one more QC Check, and we can get the finale started.

I can attest to this spread, and you can also run Leftovers instead of Specs, as well. Something like this:

name: Bulky Attacker
move 1: Hydro Pump / Surf
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Focus Blast
move 4: Hidden Power Grass / Psychic
item: Leftovers / Choice Specs
nature: Modest
ability: Drizzle
evs: 232 HP / 252 SpA / 24 Spe

24 Spe allows you to outspeed Wobbuffet and avoid being into something stupid like Focus Blast.

You might notice I have included Psychic on that set, and I think it should get a slash on pretty much every offensive Politoed set, as it makes Toxicroak think twice about switching in, and this is one Pokemon who would otherwise be a huge nuisance to any rain team. If you're running Leftovers, you can just switch over to Psychic and kill it straight off (or break its Sub so it can't set up).

I would suggest from my personal experience and opinion a set of 252 HP/252 Sp Atk/4 Sp Def (or Def) on any spec set that doesn't run timid. There just isn't anything really worth noting that Politoad will outspeed with the speed investment and it'd appreciate the extra bulk.

This just got interesting. So, maybe I'll go about this: Speed will still be invested in the main spread, but in the Additional Comments, I will emphasize the benefits of using significant HP investment and little Speed. Shrang's spread looks good to me because of Wobboffet, so I'll put that in the comments. Additionally, since this is primarily a Choice Specs set, I'm not sure where to put Leftovers, so I will put a big mention of it in the comments too.

Of course, this is all up the the last QC's decision.

 

[Eo Ut Mortus]

It's basically down to preference as to whether you want to maximize or minimize Speed on the Specs set. So yeah, you should make one spread the main spread and emphasizing the other in Set Comments. It doesn't really matter which one you choose as the primary spread: I would personally err on the side of minimum Speed, but I know other QC members prefer maximum.

Bulky Attacking set: Leftovers shouldn't be slashed with Specs in my opinion. If it is to be included, it should be a different set. I'll get back to you on that; at the moment, I don't really have enough experience with it to decide.

Also, I don't think Toxicroak is threatening enough to warrant a Psychic slash, considering that Psychic doesn't hit anything else except for Tentacruel, and using it is a free invitation for Tyranitar to switch in.

Also QC Approved 3/3

 

[Eric1125]

Is Encore even legal on this set? It's an egg move and cannot be passed on since all Dream World Pokemon are male. Maybe I'm missing something, but I just figured I would point that out.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

Is Encore even legal on this set? It's an egg move and cannot be passed on since all Dream World Pokemon are male. Maybe I'm missing something, but I just figured I would point that out.

Dream World Poliwag has been proven female. In fact, many Pokemon in the Dream World can be obtained female.

Also, thanks Eo! I'll start writing soon.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

I think maximum speed is probably the best, as it allows you to aleats speed tie a few notable OU pokemon, like Cloyster, Metagross, Breloom and, Bisharp. Also its right in the range for outspeeding many potent OU walls, which run little to no speed, allowing for a great wall breaker.

 

[Forte.EXE]

I think maximum speed is probably the best, as it allows you to aleats speed tie a few notable OU pokemon, like Cloyster, Metagross, Breloom and, Bisharp. Also its right in the range for outspeeding many potent OU walls, which run little to no speed, allowing for a great wall breaker.

Well, Metagross isn't going to be doing much of anything. Only Life Orb ThunderPunch has a chance of OHKOing 0 HP Politoed. However, with 252 HP EVs, you're OHKOed 0% of the time by LO ThunderPunch as you OHKO back with STAB Specs Modest Hydro Pump (or even Surf, if you want to go that route). Cloyster is only beating you after Shell Smash Rock Smash, and even then it requires Life Orb. Without Life Orb, it needs to Stealth Rock/previous damage to OHKO (80.7% - 95.1%). STAB Specs Surf OHKOs with Stealth Rock down, and Hydro Pump always OHKOs regardless (before the -2 SpD drop, mind you). Bisharp is just going to STAB Sucker Punch you, so it doesn't make sense to try and out-speed it. Breloom is really the only thing you're aiming to out-speed, beyond maybe Dragonite. But do Brelooms even run that much Speed anymore? Most of its EVs are usually in HP, Atk, and Def, with some in Speed to beat specific threats such as Skarmory.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

The Politoed analysis has been written up, and ready for GP checks. If anybody can comment on conciseness, that would be appreciated as well!

 

[Iconic]

The calcs you listed can't be right. I don't know what you did, but there's no way a Garchomp is surviving a Hydro Pump in the rain when I know it's KOed by Surf from experience. Here's what the table should be:

<ul class="damage_calculations">
<li>Modest Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP Bold Blissey: 40.5% - 47.9%</li>
<li>Modest Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 216 SpD Adamant Scizor: 103.20% - 121.51%</li>
<li>Modest Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Bold Reuniclus: 101.42% - 119.58%</li>
<li>Modest Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Bold Reuniclus (with a Calm Mind boost): 67.45% - 79.48%</li>
<li>Modest Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP Jolly Garchomp: 120.11% - 141.62%</li>
<li>Modest Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 224 SpD Careful Jirachi: 68.56% - 80.94%</li>
<li>Modest Hydro Pump vs. 4 SpD Timid Ninetales (in Sun): 87.8% - 103.1%</li>
<li> Modest Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Careful Tyranitar (in Sandstorm): 59.90% - 71.29%</li>
</ul>

Blissey's calc was fine. For Scizor, I changed it to Adamant because no one uses Careful. Reuniclus's was somehow messed up and I don't know why. For Garchomp, I think you forgot to put STAB on Politoed since the damage just happens to be 1.5x as much as you listed. Ninetales is fine. For Tyranitar, you forgot to include the Special Defense boost it gains from Sandstream or STAB or something.

You can double check these if you want but they seem about right now.

EDIT: woops my jirachi calc was for surf, fixed

 

[LionKingMax]

That Hydro Pump is scary.

Might be worth to say that Choice Specs Poli can survive a Choice Specs Max SpA Energy Ball from Timid Ninetales (Does around 50%-59% on a Modest 252-0 if my calcs are correct) in case Poli wanna go into a war with that Fox.

 

[Moo]

That Jirachi one can't be right....
I've seen it do ~80% to Spdef Rachi in the rain.