Zangoose

[M BLADE]

What I'm trying to highlight is that Zangoose can work above average without the use of Toxic and Poison Rampage. The fact that getting poisoned would be beneficial to Zangoose is the most attractive niche.

That set works well with and without being Poisoned, taking full advantage of Zangoose's Power while keeping it in tip top condition, for a while.

I myself will play around with the SD set because it reminds me of Ursa, but I'm hoping it doesn't leave like Ursa :'(

I see what you mean.

It's like "well, here's a CB/CS set. It works pretty well in my op- oh i just got poisoned. RAGE!!!"

It's a good way of using Zangoose IMO; maybe the best way (especially the Scarf one. Zangoose is a nice revenge killer).

 

[DrunkRaccoon]

wasn't the main reason Ursa left Quick feet? I don't think Zangoose will be THAT good.
I like CS Zangoose, and this ability makes it even more attractive. I find it unfortunate that most pokes that have Guts/PoisonRage/QuickFeet(etc?) are frail and require excellent prediction to get statused without hold items.

 

[gvmgvm40]

Zangoose @ Toxic Orb
Adamant/Jolly, Poison Rampage
252 Spe, 252 Attack, 4 HP
~ Close Combat
~ Façade
~ Night Slash/Shadow Claw
~ Rock Slide/X-Scissor/Quick Attack

Looks like the best set. Zangoose is too frail to attempt to set up, so just try to hit as hard as you can right off the bat.

 

[blasphemy1]

Assuming a 1.5x boost to attack when poisoned, Facade becomes extremely powerful:

vs. 252/152+ Hippowdon: 52.1% - 61.4%
vs. 252/252+ Suicune: 50.7% - 60.1%
vs. 152/96 Gyarados (after Intimidate): 61.6% - 72.4%
vs. 252/192+ Skarmory: 27.8% - 32.6%
vs. 252/0 Metagross: 34.3% - 40.4%
vs. 0/0 Heatran: 46.1% - 54.5%
vs. 4/0 Tyranitar: 42.1% - 50%

I mean, that stuff is really just nuts. Close Combat gives you coverage, but a neutral Close Combat only has slightly (120 vs. 105) more power than a NVE Facade. As you can see, all of the Pokemon above are 2HKOed with Stealth Rock bar Metagross and Skarmory. Scarf Tyranitar and Scarf Heatran will outrun you, but they can't switch in again. While Zangoose is extremely frail, it is very powerful and I expect it to wreck shit in the lower tiers. Quick Feet Ursaring performs a similar role, with what is essentially 359 Attack and 343 Speed, while Zangoose has essentially 493 Attack and 306 Speed. Speed vs. power.

 

[Thund91]

Zangoose should have always been used as a late game sweeper, particularly when Ghosts were eliminated if you wanted priority (you do) and walls like Weezing and Slowbro were slightly weakened.

I've used SD Zangoose in the past, and it wasn't as difficult as you guys make it seem to get a boost. If Absol can get a boost then so can Zangoose (and both completely wreck stall, which is fun).

With Poison Rampage Facade abuse, I can actually see Zangoose being banned from UU in gen 5. I mean Quick Attack completely eliminates most revenge killers from stopping it, and walls are stopped cold by STAB + Close Combat.

Probably not gonna be OU material...but Zangoose will definitely be stuck in BL.

 

[Gemerl]

I dont know why people are saying the new ability isn't that good. I mean, you all say it can't afford to take damage when its already frail.

I think thats the POINT. If its going to die in one hit in most cases anyways, why not be stronger for the time its alive? Seriously, its got paper defenses and no resists other than the ghost immunity. Its not going to take hits in the first place.

These damage calcs ARE scary, though, lol.

 

[The Messiah]

i know gamerl imagin if you could give it a Choice Band and just let it late game sweep with the enemy ghosts dead.

cant wait see to everyones favourite normal type get some usage in the higher tiers

 

[Wynought]

Let's pretend Poison Rampage was just Guts for Toxic.
Things in UU are a problem for Zangoose;

Hide

Azumarill - lives a + 2 Guts Quick Attack and finishes off with Aqua Jet
+ 2 Guts activated Zangoose Quick Attack vs. CB Azumarill - 53.7% - 63.4%
Azumarill finishes off with Aqua Jet

Absol - Sucker Punch, except I'm missing something here, I read something about priority, but I forgot.

Sharpedo - Has a faster priority that will OHKO.

Hitmontop - Lives a + 2 Guts Quick Attack and OHKOs with Mach Punch

Mismagius / Rotom - If you're using the SD set then you are completely stopped by Ghost types, it's not enough to have a Pursuit user as they will force you to switch constantly, building up residual damage and thereby lessening your chances to sweep.

Leafeon - Outspeeds, survives a + 2 Guts Quick Attack and OHKOs with Leaf Blade.

Moltres - Survives a + 2 Guts Quick Attack OHKOs with anything.

Toxicroak - Faster priority.

Heracross - This thing actually survives a + 2 Guts Quick Attack and can finish off with Close Combat.

Scyther - Survives a + 2 Guts Quick Attack.

Kabutops - Aqua Jet

Feraligatr - Aqua Jet

Weather

Stealth Rocks and Spikes

So, Goose has problems with residual damage, Priority, Ghosts and Weather? Too bad UU is currently full of that. But we'll see what 5th Gen brings to the table.

But that being said it does find a lot of chances to set up, and I have to admit those calcs are crazy. I'd like to see how it works out because Ursaring is barely used anymore, not sure how this compares but it has potential. Because we all know it won't stay NU ;_:

 

[TorchicBlaziken]

I think the existence of this ability is a reference to how Zangoose is rivals with Seviper.

 

[SlyShady]

I actually like it. Ursaring outclasses it still, but it is pretty awesome. Poison Rampage Facade probably hits like a truck, and Close Combat and Shadow Claw give it phenomenal coverage.

 

[lumpor]

I just find it hard to imagine a swords dance set taking down more than 1 pokemon.

Let's say the perfect scenario, zangoose forces someone out and swords dances. He'll either have to outspeed the opponent or take less than 82% from the opponent's attack to kill it. With a base of 90 there isn't alot that he outspeeds, especially if he's adamant. After that, he basically HAS to outspeed his next opponent to kill it.

 

[yiran]

There's quick attack.

And look at the damage calcs.

That's all.

 

[ensoriki]

I just find it hard to imagine a swords dance set taking down more than 1 pokemon.

Let's say the perfect scenario, zangoose forces someone out and swords dances. He'll either have to outspeed the opponent or take less than 82% from the opponent's attack to kill it. With a base of 90 there isn't alot that he outspeeds, especially if he's adamant. After that, he basically HAS to outspeed his next opponent to kill it.

Point made ,90 base speed became insufficient for a sweeper soon as 4th gen hit, with defenses like Zan's.

I doubt the viability of SD PR goose, unless you've got vaporeon passing a nice acid armor your way.
With attack such as his, might as well just blow up what you can with what he's got and get the extra coverage/utility.

If only PR boosted Special attack too so it wasn't guts 0.5.

 

[Farewell]

How about just passing it a Speed boost?

 

[lumpor]

the transition would be a bit shaky. Especially since the passer will be extra fast due to the speed boost, almost garuanteeing zangoose will have to take the hit.

Gliscor is probably the best agility passer.

 

[Chieliee]

Anti-Lead Zangoose:
Zangoose @ Focus Sash
Immunity
4 hp 252 atk 252 sp.atk
Jolly
-Taunt
-Counter
-Endeavor
-Return/Quick Attack

Taunt is there for obvious reasons, to stop the opponent from setting up hazards/taunting you. Counter is only there for physical attackers (Bronzong, Metagross), Return for special pokes, or when predicting a switch.
Endeavor can bring pokes to 1hp combined with Focus Sash
Immunity over Poison Rampage because when at 1hp poison kills you (duh)

 

[lmitchell0012]

Since he gets work up there may be potential for a mixed set as well. He does get the bolt-beam combo as well as flamethrower, shadow ball, and focus blast.

 

[THATSAplusONE]

Since he gets work up there may be potential for a mixed set as well. He does get the bolt-beam combo as well as flamethrower, shadow ball, and focus blast.

That would be amazing. I just don't think you would have enough time to use enough work ups to make the special attack part work. He has a base of 60 Sp attack. That means the highest he can get is 240, with nature. I just don't see him living enough turns to get of 2 or 3 work ups. But you never know lol.

 

[v]

I moved this since Zangoose isn't really OU material.

 

[TorchicBlaziken]

Zangoose's ability's official English name is Toxic Boost.

 

[evolutia]

The calculations are impression although Zangoose really doesn't have an opportunity to set up and attack.

Even something as frail as Espeon can set up; that's due to it's impressive trait, Zangoose doesn't have that.

 

[aussieman000]

Seems inferior to a lot of UU's Guts users, with it's relative frailty, limited resistances to come in on and inability to use Flame Orb/take a WoW on the way in. Facade + coverage is going to 2HKO a lot of stuff though, and STAB Quick Attack is ok. Might work as a wallbreaker or Choice Bander.

 

[Pancham]

Assuming a 1.5x boost to attack when poisoned, Facade becomes extremely powerful:

vs. 252/152+ Hippowdon: 52.1% - 61.4%
vs. 252/252+ Suicune: 50.7% - 60.1%
vs. 152/96 Gyarados (after Intimidate): 61.6% - 72.4%
vs. 252/192+ Skarmory: 27.8% - 32.6%
vs. 252/0 Metagross: 34.3% - 40.4%
vs. 0/0 Heatran: 46.1% - 54.5%
vs. 4/0 Tyranitar: 42.1% - 50%

SInce this IS the UU discussion thread, don't you think you should be calculating UU threats rather than OU threats here?

Anyway, I don't think this will really help Zangoose usage. At all. There are far better mons out there for this niche, like Heracross and Swellow.

 

[jas61292]

SInce this IS the UU discussion thread, don't you think you should be calculating UU threats rather than OU threats here.

This thread was originally in OU, it was just moved to the UU thread yesterday.

 

[n00bzard]

My friend uses this one and sweeps way more people than he should with it but it works.

Zangoose @ Salac Berry
252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Speed - Adamant(he might use Jolly)
Flail
Swords Dance
Endure
Crush Claw/Quick Attack

Start with a Swords Dance, when health gets low-ish you use Endure, then Flail has 200 power because health is between 0%-5% and with Swords Dance and STAB the power is even higher, and the Salac Berry raises speed high enough to outspeed most pokemon without priority moves. A priority move is the obvious counter so Quick Attack is an option in the last slot.