Gen V Initial UU

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Henry.

Pack in a few anti-Psychics; Mews and Celebis will be popping up, and probably a few Slowbros. EspyJump will probably fade out of existence now that Mew's a UU... and damn that sucks because I really love Espeon. Mew's Baton Pass versatility means it'll pop up a lot.


EDIT: And Entei CAN be better than Arcanine if you've got the Shiny Gamestop one; Adamant Nature with Flare Blitz and Extremespeed. Slap on a Choice Band or a Life Orb and have fun.
 

JforJeff

The following changes would make the UU tier alot better and more stable:

- Get rid of Vulpix. Weather teams for the most part are un-original and lame. Get rid of Vulpix and Sunny day teams are gone.

- Get rid of Kyurem. Although he's not THAT bad, losing Kyurem would be a hard loss for hail teams.

Really getting rid of Vulpix would do wonders for the tier. Sunny day teams are too powerful right now, anyone who says they aren't are probably other weather teams or sunny day players.
 
KurashiDragon

KurashiDragon

The main abuser for Sun is Victini who is alot like Manaphy was for Rain in terms of the power they add to their respective weather. I feel Victini adds way to much power to Sun with very little in exchange. To compare let's use another powerful sun abuser, Charizard

Even though Charizard's Fire Blast is more powerful it uses Solar power which is like a Life Orb with Specs power. Not only that but it dies way to quickly with that 4x weakness to SR. It's got plenty of negatives to compinsate for the power it gives to sun. Victini doesn't have that problem. Apart from the added weakness to stealth rock it doesn't really hurt Sun teams all that much.

In conclusion, I feel that if we ban Victini we'll get rid of a particularly prominent threat in sun. It'd certainly help. Plus I think OU sun can use it better. :P
 

Whimsicott

Henry said:
Pack in a few anti-Psychics; Mews and Celebis will be popping up, and probably a few Slowbros. EspyJump will probably fade out of existence now that Mew's a UU... and damn that sucks because I really love Espeon. Mew's Baton Pass versatility means it'll pop up a lot.


EDIT: And Entei CAN be better than Arcanine if you've got the Shiny Gamestop one; Adamant Nature with Flare Blitz and Extremespeed. Slap on a Choice Band or a Life Orb and have fun.
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Arcanine can do what Entei does but better. (1) Intimidate helps Arcanine switch into physical attacks that won't do SE Damage. It's a lot harder for Entei to do that. (2) Entei's movepool is still mediocre while Arcanine's is a lot better. (3) Morning Sun on Arcanine, fire types aren't going to be staying on the field for a long time.

A lot more reasons \: Power won't offset the immense defensive pokemon in UU.
 
evolutia

evolutia

It's a tad to early for me to give a definitive opinion, I will however give some impressions.

1. Sun based teams are out in full force. Victini is the king (damage output) wise. Many Grass types are in the spot light.

2. Kyurem is also very impressive in and out of hail.
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To help combat some of these threats Bisharp has been a boon as a "check" to some of the new threats. Pursuit + Sucker Punch is a great combination.

I'm looking forward to seeing the metagame develop from here on out. Happy testing you guys!
 

kingdra22

Arcanine is superior to Entei. Here are some of the reasons


  • Morning Sun.
  • Arcanine gets Intimidate. This means that he can tank some super-effective physical hits, something Entei cannot perform very well. Morning Sun is also a big plus for Arcanine, because this means that he can switch in more than Entei.
  • Arcanine is more versatile. Entei is stuck with running an Adamant nature for it to have a useful move in Flare Blitz. Arcanine, on the other hand, can run a wider variety of movesets because it can run any nature that most benefits that moveset.
  • [This is pretty shallow] Breeding Arcanine is actually possible.
  • ...and so much more
Oh, and just for the record (and for this post to not look too serious), I kind of think it's funny comparing a legendary pokemon to the LEGENDARY pokemon.
 

Yuggles

hey that second guy isn't too bad
Just a question, why does the UU forum need two floated threads? I realize that this thread is for informing people of the existence of UU and which Pokemon can be used in it, and the other thread is aimed towards the first suspect round. However, the main conversations in both threads are practically identical; people pointing out how OP Vulpix/Victini/Kyurem are, and suggesting checks and counters for them. It seems silly to have two identical conversations going on in two different threads.

Maybe a clearer definition of what the threads' purposes are would help. Direct all Vulpix/Victini/Kyurem conversation to the other thread while this one stays open for general discussion about the tier. Either that, or merge the threads / close one thread.
 
Thorhammer

Thorhammer

Yuggles said:
Just a question, why does the UU forum need two floated threads? I realize that this thread is for informing people of the existence of UU and which Pokemon can be used in it, and the other thread is aimed towards the first suspect round. However, the main conversations in both threads are practically identical; people pointing out how OP Vulpix/Victini/Kyurem are, and suggesting checks and counters for them. It seems silly to have two identical conversations going on in two different threads.

Maybe a clearer definition of what the threads' purposes are would help. Direct all Vulpix/Victini/Kyurem conversation to the other thread while this one stays open for general discussion about the tier. Either that, or merge the threads / close one thread.
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Because redundancy is such a horrible thing, right?

There's nothing wrong with this the way it is.
 

Yuggles

hey that second guy isn't too bad
Thorhammer said:
There's nothing wrong with this the way it is.
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Is this your response to someone when they bring up their thoughts on an overpowered Pokemon? At least put a little bit of effort into your reasoning. "There's nothing wrong with this the way it is" didn't stop all those Pokemon from being sent to the Uber tier, now did it?

I might as well just copy whatever I say in this thread and post the exact same thing in the other one. And I'll likely get a different set of replies in each thread, because I don't know about you guys, but I can't be arsed to sift through TWO threads where people talk about almost the same thing.

Redundancy isn't horrible, but why have it when there's an easy solution? I believe that in the 4th Gen UU board, there was a similar problem to this one, and it was fixed by redirecting comments about Suspects to the actual Suspect thread.
 
Thorhammer

Thorhammer

Yuggles said:
Is this your response to someone when they bring up their thoughts on an overpowered Pokemon? At least put a little bit of effort into your reasoning. "There's nothing wrong with this the way it is" didn't stop all those Pokemon from being sent to the Uber tier, now did it?

I might as well just copy whatever I say in this thread and post the exact same thing in the other one. And I'll likely get a different set of replies in each thread, because I don't know about you guys, but I can't be arsed to sift through TWO threads where people talk about almost the same thing.

Redundancy isn't horrible, but why have it when there's an easy solution? I believe that in the 4th Gen UU board, there was a similar problem to this one, and it was fixed by redirecting comments about Suspects to the actual Suspect thread.
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If someone wants a Pokemon to be banned from OU, they need to give good, solid reasoning why the metagame is absolutely not fine the way it is. You have given no reasoning for why having two floated threads with similar purposes is harmful in the slightest. You ask why we should have redundancy when there's an easy solution, but it doesn't matter how easy the solution is if there's no problem to be solved.

You're smarter than this.
 

Yuggles

hey that second guy isn't too bad
Thorhammer said:
If someone wants a Pokemon to be banned from OU, they need to give good, solid reasoning why the metagame is absolutely not fine the way it is. You have given no reasoning for why having two floated threads with similar purposes is harmful in the slightest. You ask why we should have redundancy when there's an easy solution, but it doesn't matter how easy the solution is if there's no problem to be solved.

You're smarter than this.
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I gave reason as to why having two similar threads is a bad idea, and it's not difficult to extrapolate beyond the points I gave. If there was just one thread to focus all the Suspect discussion, we could have some really in-depth debates and arguments as to which Pokemon should and shouldn't be considered suspects. At the moment, there are two threads, which splits the discussion, leading to two smaller arguments going on in both threads. What's the point of that? It's the same as when Rain Dance was popular in 4h Gen UU. The general UU discussion thread started to become polluted with Rain Dance discussion, so what happened is that the mods made it clear that RD discussion was to be posed in the suspect thread. It happened there for Rain, so it might as well happen here for Sun. Hell, there's even a Drought thread, and although it's not floated, it means there's actually three threads at the top of the page talking about Sun, Vulpix, and Victini.

For a site that is generally so picky and efficient, I thought this would be more obvious.
 
BKC

BKC

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JforJeff said:
The following changes would make the UU tier alot better and more stable:

- Get rid of Vulpix. Weather teams for the most part are un-original and lame. Get rid of Vulpix and Sunny day teams are gone.

- Get rid of Kyurem. Although he's not THAT bad, losing Kyurem would be a hard loss for hail teams.

Really getting rid of Vulpix would do wonders for the tier. Sunny day teams are too powerful right now, anyone who says they aren't are probably other weather teams or sunny day players.
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Whether or not a strategy is "un-original" and "lame" or not is completely subjective and arbitrary. To you, a team of Vulpix+5 sun sweepers may seem lame but not everyone shares that opinion. It seems you want to get rid of sun because it's un-original. We never banned SkarmBliss in gen 4 because it was un-original, why should we start now?
 

LupeWilde

i think that victini would be like salamence last gen. It has no true counter cuz it can 2HKO everything in the tier(the v-create set). It will eventually go to OU tho, most likely
 

LupeWilde

Mind Controller said:
So according to the usage stats, Vannilish is the worst competitive Pokemon? Man, it comes after Unown, and that's got to be insulting.

Anyhoo, I really can't wait to try out UU. Seems like a barrel of fun and a crapload of testing similiar to last generation. Curselax, Sun team and Speed Boost Sharpedo, here I come!
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i say that too!
 
BKC

BKC

is a Community Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis the Smogon Tour Season 16 Championis the Smogon Tour Season 22 Championis a Past SPL Championis a Five-Time Past WCoP Champion
Curselax is incredibly underrated. He checks Sun teams extremely well thanks to Thick Fat and hail teams don't like him much either...
 

SupremeDirt

To those bashing Entei, he is one of the best CM fire types in the game. He is now outclassed by Victini, however. Entei also has MORE physical bulk than Arcanine or Victini, meaning with investment he can tank a lot of hits that neither of those can, and unlike Arcanine can stay in after they switch. I'm also fairly certain that Arcanine gets neither Lava Plume nor Eruption, although if you're going all out Eruption Typhlosion is superior to Entei.

Entei is similar to Mew. It has a lot of sets it can run, most of them are outclassed by something or another, but you can throw people off by running obscure sets they don't see coming. It's actually really easy to lure in their physical wall expecting to be able to set up on Entei. Also note that although Arcanine does outspeed with Jolly, you still are hitting just that little bit harder than Arcanine, and as was proven last gen (Electivire) it can be just that little bit that's necessary for a OHKO.
 

SupremeDirt

Entei doesn't need it with Wish support, and with Reflect he's taking piddly damage from both sides of the spectrum. Also if you're not running physical he's faster than Arcanine, though at that point you should be comparing him to the likes of Typhlosion and Victini instead.
 

Benlisted

SupremeDirt said:
To those bashing Entei, he is one of the best CM fire types in the game. He is now outclassed by Victini, however. Entei also has MORE physical bulk than Arcanine or Victini, meaning with investment he can tank a lot of hits that neither of those can, and unlike Arcanine can stay in after they switch. I'm also fairly certain that Arcanine gets neither Lava Plume nor Eruption, although if you're going all out Eruption Typhlosion is superior to Entei.
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Just wanted to dispute the more physical bulk than Victini (obviously Arc has more if Intimidate but that can't be relied upon). Entei has 115 HP and 85 Def, which barely differs his physical bulk from Victini's 100/100. He has better typing for a physical tank maybe, but with a boosted accuracy WoW a physically defensive Victini can exploit its own assets in that role too.

Lava Plume is a cool asset, however, though Eruption is pretty useless outside a pure offensive set, which Typh is better off doing.

In any case, there's literally three threads right now having this exact conversation about Entei VS Arc...
 
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