yeah, me and one of my friends set up a double battle: he had two of the same pokemon (can't remember what it was) same item, same EV spread, same IV spread, same moveset (just in case THAT somehow found a way to alter the amount of damage it took) and i used 2 Hihidaruma, same EVs, IVs, item, and moveset, and one with Daruma Mode, the other with Encourage, and used Flare Blitz on each of my friend's pokemon. sure enough, the one with Encourage did more damage. granted, that meant more recoil, but it still worked. it might've been a fluke or something, but i'm not entirely sure of that
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Darmanitan
- Thread starter Not Scicky
- Start date
Encourage boosts Flare Blitz because of the burn chance, not the recoil.
he meant more recoil because he caused more damage with flare blitz.
Yeah... but Dp8292 meant that the only reason there was a Sheer Force boost was because Flare Blitz has a burn chance, not because it causes recoil damage. Therefore, danmo96's tests didn't prove anything.
Anyway, unless there are tests with attacks other than Flare Blitz, I'm fairly confident that it doesn't boost attacks with negative effects. My Sheer Force Braviary has Brave Bird and Superpower, and they seem to do just about as much damage as I'd expect (not that that really says much).
Why would sheer force increase BB or Superpowers power? They completely lack a side effect, unline Flare Blitz (10% burn chance)
As explained before, Sheer Force only removes side effects that benefit you, not ones that hinder you.
I'm fully aware of this, but there was a guy claiming that Sheer Force boosts attacks with negative side effects without removing them. He tested the theory with Flare Blitz, so I was letting him know that it has a burn chance, and that other moves with negative effects (Brave Bird, Superpower) seemed to be acting like normally.
No worries, I figured you read it wrong or something.
At any rate, yeah, I agree that it should be well known (except for competitive newbies, I guess). I was pretty surprised back when it was still new and everyone thought it removed recoil and stuff as well as providing a huge boost... seemed completely unrealistic to me. When the ability was first announced alongside Hihidaruma, I guessed it would work exactly like it does now (though I thought it would be a 1.1x boost for effects with a 10% chance, 1.3x for effects with 30%, etc. It would've made Icy Wind a 110 power attack! :D).
SF Darmanitan with a LO Flare Blitz in the sun is strong enough to 2HKO a 252/252 Bold Jellicent with little difficulty. Hell, it could possibly 1HKO it with hazards up. This thing is an absolute beast, but it's very susceptible to a revenge killer like Conkeldurr or something cracking a LO Draco Meteor against its' skull. SR greatly hampers this flaming gorilla from being able to wreak havoc on your team. I wonder if Darmanitan has Taunt, because it may be able to use it, in theory.
He learns Taunt at level 39. But I thought the only set worth using was the CB set.
that's nonsense, the life orb set allows you to switch attacks without the life orb recoil. It still has all the raw power,and the choice scarf set works as a revenge killer. I personally dont think taunt is viable, especially when i could be scouting with u-turn instead.
It can be viable, but Darmanitan is used for its' sheer power behind its' blows with that monstrous 140 attack and Sheer Force. Its' speed is pretty good, so with a Choice Scarf, it out-speeds most of the metagame, at the noticeable loss of power. Taunt is much better suited for a wall like Mandibuzz or Skarmory, IMO, but it's kinda cool that a flaming gorilla can learn it, haha.
Oh my Arceus, I've never encountered a difficulty as much as trying to make a set for Zen Mode Darmanitan work. Does anyone have any success with it?
To use Zen Mode, I see three possible moves of which it needs to work;
-Substitute (Needs 2 uses however)
-Belly Drum (Can go mixed in zen mode with this, as physical att is over 300 at +6)
-Flame Charge (Boosts his lackluster speed in zen mode, and also in normal mode)
In Zen Mode, to make use of his large unboosted sp att, I see a few moves available for him;
-Psychic (Additional STAB for neutral coverage)
-Flamethrower (Special STAB)
-Grass Knot (To kill water/ground/rock types that stop him)
While in physical sweeper mode (normal), I see some moves he can use;
U-Turn (Gets him out of an unwanted matchup if zen mode is not suggested at the time)
Earthquake (Reliable Coverage)
Brick Break/Focus Punch (Coverage)
Flare Blitz/Fire Punch (STAB move)
Rock Move (Coverage)
For an EV spread, I have no idea where to go. When he goes to zen mode, his speed drops and then he can be outsped and ko'd at low health. If only it was the other way around >:( He has very gratuitous bulk in zen mode, but again, low HP. I just don't know where to go. Possibly could max HP be a good start? (To at least give him better life chances in zen mode)
To use Zen Mode, I see three possible moves of which it needs to work;
-Substitute (Needs 2 uses however)
-Belly Drum (Can go mixed in zen mode with this, as physical att is over 300 at +6)
-Flame Charge (Boosts his lackluster speed in zen mode, and also in normal mode)
In Zen Mode, to make use of his large unboosted sp att, I see a few moves available for him;
-Psychic (Additional STAB for neutral coverage)
-Flamethrower (Special STAB)
-Grass Knot (To kill water/ground/rock types that stop him)
While in physical sweeper mode (normal), I see some moves he can use;
U-Turn (Gets him out of an unwanted matchup if zen mode is not suggested at the time)
Earthquake (Reliable Coverage)
Brick Break/Focus Punch (Coverage)
Flare Blitz/Fire Punch (STAB move)
Rock Move (Coverage)
For an EV spread, I have no idea where to go. When he goes to zen mode, his speed drops and then he can be outsped and ko'd at low health. If only it was the other way around >:( He has very gratuitous bulk in zen mode, but again, low HP. I just don't know where to go. Possibly could max HP be a good start? (To at least give him better life chances in zen mode)
Unfortunately, Darmanitan isn't known for its' wonderful defenses, and even with the great HP it has, almost no one ever invests in it since the flaming gorilla is a sweeper that can pound faces into smoldering ashes with Flare Blitz. So I really have no idea how it would be able to survive, but if it does, then it's possible you could own it, as long as you were behind a Sub when you changed. If the Sub has the defenses of the Zen Mode it changed into, then it could work. If the Sub has the defense of the Normal Mode, then it would at least be able to get one hit in before it dies, since they would break the Sub, and Zen Mode Darmanitan attacks before the next turn has it die.
I literally don't think it's possible to do anything remotely useful with Zen Mode Darmanitan. A Sub always has the defenses of the Pokemon behind it, meaning Zen Mode Darmanitan's Subs will by pretty bulky. The problem is that it's a Fire/Psychic type with base 55 speed. That leaves it with weaknesses to Dark, Ghost, Water, Ground, and Rock. Almost any attacking Pokemon in the game will carry a move of one of those types, so nothing should have any trouble doing the ~100 damage necessary to break Zen Darmanitan's Sub, even with its good defenses. And what's the payoff? Base 140 special attack (the same as Chandelure) with less speed and worse coverage, and probably less starting HP than a fully invested Shuckle. On top of that, its best boosting item (Life Orb) takes off 1/5 of its "post-transformation" HP, and that's not even factoring in sandstorm or hail stripping away your health each turn.
I think Zen Mode Darmanitan is literally one of the worst-designed Pokemon in history. It wants to be bulky, but has to lose half of its health to do so, and it's stuck with horrible typing. It wants to be a powerful special attacker, but it has atrocious speed and crappy coverage. And, of course, there's the Belly Drum factor: you COULD Belly Drum to get to Zen Mode in one turn, but then you're giving up a freaking +6 Sheer Force Darmanitan, a.k.a. "so insanely strong it doesn't even need Flare Blitz to murder everything", for...base 55 speed, a good special attack, and less attack than Crawdaunt, despite being at +6. WinstonShnozwick, I applaud you for trying, and I racked my brain to find anything Zen Mode Darmanitan could do other than "die quickly" and "be horribly outclassed", and all I did was ended up with a proof of how insanely horrible it is.
I think Zen Mode Darmanitan is literally one of the worst-designed Pokemon in history. It wants to be bulky, but has to lose half of its health to do so, and it's stuck with horrible typing. It wants to be a powerful special attacker, but it has atrocious speed and crappy coverage. And, of course, there's the Belly Drum factor: you COULD Belly Drum to get to Zen Mode in one turn, but then you're giving up a freaking +6 Sheer Force Darmanitan, a.k.a. "so insanely strong it doesn't even need Flare Blitz to murder everything", for...base 55 speed, a good special attack, and less attack than Crawdaunt, despite being at +6. WinstonShnozwick, I applaud you for trying, and I racked my brain to find anything Zen Mode Darmanitan could do other than "die quickly" and "be horribly outclassed", and all I did was ended up with a proof of how insanely horrible it is.
So since Darmanitan Zen and Normal modes both have 105 base HP, the sub then is backed up by base 105 defenses as well. But the thing is, how will Darmanitan get to that crucial 50% mark without being effortlessly picked off by a much faster opponent. If its' sub doesn't last long enough for the Zen Mode Darmanitan to at least attack once, then it's outclassed by its' Normal Mode with Sheer Force and its' 140 base attack with a 120BP move that roasts most anything that gets in its' way.
I applaud you for attempting it, WinstonShnozwick, but I think you're much better off with the regular SF Darmanitan with its' Flare Blitz of hell. If they remade Zen Mode where it didn't need to be at half health to work, then I think it would be much more viable. But for now, Zen Mode fails so horribly. It has base 55 speed, which is abysmal even with a Scarf, and it's easy pickings, along with the iffy typing. Victini has the same typing, but it isn't so hampered by a horrible ability restriction and a slow speed.
I thought this pokemon could be better with +1/ +2 Speed due to Flame Charge. Sadly, Flame Charge also receives the boost of Sheer Force, because that, is a rubbish move on it as it does not increase its own speed.
I tested it on Black with wild random pokemon and trainers at Route 9.
With Zen Mode is not worthwhile.
Edit: I didn't test Zen Mode, only against once on a friendly battle. In my opinion is not worthwhile for reasons already given above.
I tested it on Black with wild random pokemon and trainers at Route 9.
With Zen Mode is not worthwhile.
Edit: I didn't test Zen Mode, only against once on a friendly battle. In my opinion is not worthwhile for reasons already given above.
If only it was UU, then Dtan might have a shot at working zen mode. I mean, trollfreak just destroyed this ability so hard. I've gotten ridiculous sets like mixed gyara to work, but Zen Mode just defeats my set building skills. :(
GF gave us this epic ability just to mess with us and taunt us like they did with Archen and Archeops with their horrible ability Defeatist, or Slakoth and Slaking with Truant. :( Well, those two abilities suck ass, but the Pokemon themselves would be awesome if not for those horrible ability restrictions. The same with Zen Mode Darmanitan. There's just way too many cons compared to the pros, and it's commendable to try and make a set, but it's just too outclassed, and the 50% HP to activate the ability screws with it so damn badly. :(
Slaking without Truant and even with ability with no effect would be too good, Top OU, or even Uber. A much better Snorlax.
Archeops not all the same, because it relies of not missing Stone Edge. Also has poor defenses, bad defensive type and weakness to SR.
Darmanitan at UU, not, it is too good for UU. Ban of Sheer Force is not possible, Nidoqueen also has the ability and is not abusive.
Also there is no reason to use Zen Mode on that pokemon, Sheer Force is too good.
If this pokemon only had Zen Mode, it would be much less useful.
Archeops not all the same, because it relies of not missing Stone Edge. Also has poor defenses, bad defensive type and weakness to SR.
Darmanitan at UU, not, it is too good for UU. Ban of Sheer Force is not possible, Nidoqueen also has the ability and is not abusive.
Also there is no reason to use Zen Mode on that pokemon, Sheer Force is too good.
If this pokemon only had Zen Mode, it would be much less useful.
Slaking and Cofagrigus are a good couple together because Cofagrigus' ability nullifies Truant, letting Slaking unleash his full power. Archeops could possibly be the same way, but what you said is true. Its' defenses are weak, and SR weakness doesn't help it too much. Zen Mode Darmanitan isn't helped by Mummy, since it just makes a weakened Darmanitan come back, and there's no SF to back up on, so it's easily killed. Zen Mode is a really restricted ability, because if Zen Mode Darmanitan was able to transform the second it was thrown into battle with its' full base 105HP, it would be viable. But since there's a 50% HP activation, it's much less viable in competitive battles since every single HP point is vital for a Pokemon's survival in this very fast and hard hitting metagame of Generation V.
Seconding this.
Anyway, I've been wondering if Hihidaruma has any potential in Doubles/Triples. Yeah, he's weak to Rock Slide, Surf, AND EQ, but he has EQ and SF Rock Slide himself. Seems inferior to quite a few other mon to me, but I just wanted to hear other opinions on it.