Gen 5 Hyper Offense

[Blaze Of RS]

Hey there Smogonites!

The main aim of this is to point out the various styles of HO and what makes it a formidable play style as well as improving on it to make it even better. Now without further adieu...

Now i don't really have any experience in this style and as much as i'd like to,
my pc recently crashed and so its in the shop. Anyway from all the research i've been doing today its basically setting up screens and attempting a sweep after sweep after sweep.
Stathakis' theory was originally made for DPP so i dont know whether it works in BW and i haven't been able to test :(
Though i have come against some and from what i've seen they really caught me off-guard and i lost a bunch. Lemme state an example:
I send in my Skarmory to setup spikes then in comes Xatu which sets up screens and u-turns to Emboar and the next turn i switch to Landorus on the Flare Blitz and fire off a crit EQ, which doesn't kill! (Thanks to screens). Some turns later predicting the switch the Emboar sets up a Flame charge effectively outspeeding and killing Landorus. So what are your thoughts on this playstyle, how much has it changed from Stathakis' DPP style till now? Help from experienced HO players is greatly welcome!

 

[Stathakis]

not my theory, the idea of being walled by the same stuff was around long before me


it's even easier to do this in gen 5 since most defensive pokemon are extremely different from each other, resulting in less overprotection against certain threats i.e. burungeru nattorei gliscor and blissey all wall quite different things from each other so there is no overlap, etc etc. just pick a defensive pokemon and put everything it counters on the same team. make sure you've got lots of speed and enough muscle to break through that one pokemon and voila you have gen 5 "HO"

edit @ rey: yup

edit2: sup

 

[reyscarface]

and you dont even need screens, your standard sandstorm team is just what youre describing here with shit like tyranitar, garchomp, randorosu, and doryuuzu

 

[Blaze Of RS]

Would any of you mind lecturing me on HO? :3
And Rey in the case of weatherless are screens still not needed or does it depend on the team?

 

[NeoSeth]

Gen V Hyper Offense basically has two variants: Sand and Rain.

Sand runs a bunch of set-up sweepers like Excadrill, Landlos, Garchomp, Terakion etc. There are plenty of Pokemon that function well in Sand, so the list is very broad.

Rain is even easier. You just run Politoed, Ferrothorn and 4 Choice users. Maybe NP Voltbro or something instead of a Choiced mon.

There are Sun teams and whatnot, but most HO teams I've faced fall into these categories. The easiest way to beat them is obviously to change the weather. I've also noticed that oftentimes these teams have certain sweepers that they're very weak too. For example, some Rain teams won't really have a check to DDRoost Dragonite, so you can just stat up and sweep them back.

 

[Blaze Of RS]

Thanks for the feedback! (Though just quoting someone else isn't really helping). Yeah weather is up there as one of the most common HO styles but what are your thoughts on weatherless? and the need for screens?

 

[Green Mage]

The best way to be hyperoffensive and weatherless is to use one or two of one of the insane boosters this gen (reuniclus, volcarona, conkeldurr, etc etc) and build the rest of your team around eliminating counters and supporting their sweeping chances. This is infinitely more difficult than just noobing out with sand or rain though.

Screens are always helpful, especially if your sweeper isn't particularly bulky, but they don't help with crits.

 

[DetroitLolcat]

Uh, no it's not. Using dual screens is common on a Hyper Offense team, in fact, it's probably the most distinctive feature of hyper offense. Usually a screen (possibly suicide) lead comes in, sets up screens, dies or U-Turns out, and a set up sweeper comes in. That setup sweeper uses the screens' defensive bonuses to set up easily, and then ideally runs through as much of the opponent's team as possible. Then you send in the next pokemon, rip shit apart, and repeat.

 

[Stathakis]

hey guys the only reason lots of setup mons were ever used is because they're harder to force out than choice mons, which means less setup time for the opponent.

screens aren't needed, setup mons aren't needed, hell you don't even need to use sweepers. i mean honestly if you say anything is "needed" on any given team, be it offense stall bp trickroom or gravity, you're just arbitrarily limiting your options.


the basic idea of "ho" which really isn't that unique of a team/playing style is that 1. most of your shit is walled by the same sort of thing, allowing you to cripple it and then win 2. you don't give a billion free turns away. those two ideas should be characteristic of any good team in some way, shape, or form. I remember reading one of IPL's stall teams where not a single pokemon on the team was easy to set up on


after that, do whatever you want, the sky's the limit! that's the beauty of pokemon, you can be creative! there are, after all, over 600 pokemon to choose from. quit overthinking it and just go out and experiment! forget the notions of screens or weather or setup sweepers or explosions or choiced mons or anything else being necessary. nothing is necessary, nothing is taboo, so just play some pokemon!

 

[Blaze Of RS]

@Green Mage What you are stating is the process for a Balanced team, DetroitLolcat pretty much sums up my thoughts and...
@Stathakis If its not too much trouble can you give examples on what you just stated. Cause if no choice mons and no set-up, then what? All out attacks? I know your just trying to remove the limiting factor but yeah...

 

[Stathakis]

what I mean is you don't NEED any one of those things in particular

 

[zyrefredric]

i mean honestly if you say anything is "needed" on any given team, be it offense stall bp trickroom or gravity, you're just arbitrarily limiting your options.

I don't entirely agree. Baton Pass, Trickroom and Gravity are very specialized teams that there are "needed" roles to be filled. In the case of Trickroom, a Trickroom setter, attackers with abysmal speed, and a last fast cleaner (in case all TR setters are dead) may be required.

In Hyper Offernse, I think it is possible to be weatherless and screenless. What you do is just all out attack the opponent. I'm thinking of using a team of very fast mixed attackers, no Choice items. Just send one out and attack until the first attacker dies. Send out the next and do it over again. Avoid switching and any defensive maneuvers, and we're good to go.

 

[Green Mage]

Um, I was agreeing with you about screens. Not sure why you're arguing with me lol.

What I want to see is an RMT or log of a successful non-weather heavy offense team because I sure haven't seen one work. Defensive type synergy is just way too strong now. It sounds like it could be a fun archetype.

 

[JSND]

Regular HO of G4 is dead now.

But replaced by BP HO. WHich is insane.

Nothing but Gorebyss nightmare will fill you when you get f***ed by it

 

[Green Mage]

lol, baton pass teams never work. ever. Then again, see my avatar.

 

[Chieliee]

^ That's why I run Mental Herb on my Gorebyss... JK.

Anyway, I myself don't really like HO, i'm more fond of the balanced/defensive playstyle. I have run one succesful HO team though. It consisted of Dual screen/Thunder Wave/U-Turn Uxie, HP Ice Kojondo, CB Haxorus (cleaner), two more offensive mons I forgot, and Lunar Dance Cresselia. Lunar Dance/Healing Wish is a great move on HO teams. I have no idea why, but it just works

 

[JSND]

BP HO work

If it used Gorebyss at least

 

[raijinken]

For now, I find a core of Haxorus/Garchomp/Magnezone to be very powerful for weatherless HO. Usually, Haxorus would help to weaken and kill Garchomp's counter opening Garchomp up for a sweep in late game. The only real wall against this type of sweep are steel types like Ferrothorn and Skarmory which is where Magnezone comes in where it can further set up with Sub/ChargeBeam leaving bigger holes than ever in the enemy team for the final Chomp sweep.

 

[kaonohiokala]

The majority of this topic is pure disappointment... Does no one understand what Hyper Offense is? >_>

 

[raijinken]

Hyper Offense: The most basic style of playing, using either a weather inducing lead (Politoed, Tyranitar, Ninetales) or a Dual Screen lead to ready the field, and then sending in offensive sweeper after offensive sweeper until the opponents team cracks under the pressure because their Pokemon can't take any more hits.

Ain't that right?

 

[JSND]

Yeah its more than set up sweeper.
Its rather throwing gajilion of sweeper.

Most think HO is set up field, screen, set up win

Anyway my point of gorbyss is, it follow the traditional Screen Set up sweep tactic but with gorebyss doing the instant set up

 

[Chieliee]

For now, I find a core of Haxorus/Garchomp/Magnezone to be very powerful for weatherless HO. Usually, Haxorus would help to weaken and kill Garchomp's counter opening Garchomp up for a sweep in late game. The only real wall against this type of sweep are steel types like Ferrothorn and Skarmory which is where Magnezone comes in where it can further set up with Sub/ChargeBeam leaving bigger holes than ever in the enemy team for the final Chomp sweep.

Dragonite/Garchomp/Latias/Magnezone/Magneton/one i forgot

I once faced this team. I got obliterated.

 

[Lady Shinki]

How about dual screen+CM+Pass Espeon.

That thing is a staple on HO.

 

[Congratulations]

Obv no one here understands what HO is. Lead with dual screens + 5 set up sweepers that are walled by the same thing. That is it, nothing more nothing less.

 

[Lady Shinki]

That's basically exactly what I said, just Espy has the added benefit of being able to Baton Pass vs. shitty stall teams instead of switching out after dual screens.