Dragonite

[RevolverKnight]

This is my favorite D-nite Set

Bulky D-nite
Dragonite @ Leftovers
Ability: Multi Scale
Nature: Impish
Evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 Def
~ Dragon Claw
~ Earthquake / Fire Punch
~ Thunder Wave
~ Roost

Admittedly, he hates Toxic, Mamoswine, and Skarmory (without Fire Punch), but he is amazing wall with this set. You T-Wave on the first turn and if you lucky they will get parahax, and if your not you can just roost of the damage. Dragon Claw is for a powerful STAB attack. Fire Punch has really good type coverage for his weaknesses, but Earthquake has more power.

 

[Run]

Thunderwave+Roost is the best way to go with Multiscale Dragonite, hands down. The occational parahax is what allows Dnite to keep his health peaked, which is really the whole point of multiscale. I keep him paired with a Jirachi to Body Slam grounds and for defensive synergy.

My set of choice is very similar to Frostbite's but plays a slightly different role.

Alpha&Omega Dragonite
Dragonite @ Leftovers
Ability: Multi Scale
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
~ Roost
~ Thunderwave
~ Extremespeed
~ Dragon Tail

The whole point is to control the timing of the matchup. T-wave on an attack you will survive (pretty much everything at full health) Roost back the damage and wait for parahax to switch out or dragon tail to gain momentum. Extremespeed makes this bulky d-nite and unlikely revenger that needs absolutely 0 speed investment. The reason I think Extremespeed is necessary even with T-wave is because Dragonite rarely comes in on someone that is already paralyzed, even with Jirachi around. With rocks potentially negating your free turn, D-Nite can still revenge sweepers that would otherwise 1 shot him after rocks. Dragon tail is mainly for phazing and taking control away from your opponent.

This set doesn't like steals, but doesn't mind them either as dragontail puts a small dent in them and forces the switch. Like all Multi Scale Dragonites, this one HATES burn and poison, so avoid them like the plague. The other thing you need to watch out for is substitute/set up sweepers because sub negates t-wave AND dragontail. You can lose momentum VERY quickly if you aren't paying attention.

I have had a ton of success with this set, If you are paying attention and avoid the things i mentioned above, you will find this particular dragon a huge asset to any team.

 

[lulzer]

Hmm... I'll throw this here so I don't clump up the analysis.

DNite is the new anti-meta pokemon, his sets will never be fixed and with every single change in the flavor of the month, there will be sheer changes on Dragonite's sets. Remember how Heatran was last gen? Always changing his moves to counter the pokemons that appear to counter him, because otherwise Heatran himself would counter your team, who you made so that it could counter X threat etc....That's what will happen to Dragonite this gen.

 

[ForteAnly]

It could be possible. From all the analysis I have been looking at in the forums Dragonite has been one of the few that has kept changing and changing. Move sets disappear one moment and then remerge. Its very interesting to see how Dragonite will continue to change in the months to come.

 

[Redtype]

So, according to usage stats Dragonite is used more than Salamence now. Something no 4th gen player thought would ever happen. Does Dragonite, in your opinion, finally surpassed his younger brother in terms of viability?

I think the main reason Sally is not used as much as in 4th gen is because 100 base speed is rather "slow" for current OU standards. This, coupled with not-so-impressive bulk makes him very easy to revenge kill.

While Dragonite might be even slower than Salamence, he offers much better bulk (Multiscale) and arguably better movepool. We have T-wave for shuffling set, Thunder and Hurricane for Rain abuse set, Superpower for mixed sets, and Extremespeed for priority.

Thoughts?

 

[min min]

Superpower is illegal with Multiscale. Dragonite's CB set has been my favorite so far though, despite the loss of Superpower the sheer stallcrushing power of CB Outrage is just so fun to use!

 

[Lady Shinki]

Dragonite is only used for Roost+Multiscale, and I think once some popular player uses Mence again in a high-profile RMT, Mence will surpass DNite again in usage.

 

[M BLADE]

And Roost + Multiscale offers Dragonite much more that Salamence can ever claim to offer.

Even Dragon Dance is easier with Dragonite despite the speed. D-Nite can also tank, support, has storng priority (hell, it has two priority attacks, but one is weak), counterring/checking threats is much easier with D-Nite too. Maybe only mixed sets are better on Salamence (and DD really depends of what you want for your team).

It can run so many sets that the conjuction of those far surpasses what Salamence can do and offer for a team, meaning usage will be higher 95% of the time (unless someone discovers a great set for Sala or whatever).

 

[WingedKnight]

And Roost + Multiscale offers Dragonite much more that Salamence can ever claim to offer.

Even Dragon Dance is easier with Dragonite despite the speed. D-Nite can also tank, support, has storng priority (hell, it has two priority attacks, but one is weak), counterring/checking threats is much easier with D-Nite too. Maybe only mixed sets are better on Salamence (and DD really depends of what you want for your team).

It can run so many sets that the conjuction of those far surpasses what Salamence can do and offer for a team, meaning usage will be higher 95% of the time (unless someone discovers a great set for Sala or whatever).

Pretty much this exactly. Dragonite has so much more utility than Salamence now. The sheer number of options that he has allows him to play into so many roles, and that's why he is used more and will likely continue to be.

 

[Lady Shinki]

And Roost + Multiscale offers Dragonite much more that Salamence can ever claim to offer.

Even Dragon Dance is easier with Dragonite despite the speed. D-Nite can also tank, support, has storng priority (hell, it has two priority attacks, but one is weak), counterring/checking threats is much easier with D-Nite too. Maybe only mixed sets are better on Salamence (and DD really depends of what you want for your team).

It can run so many sets that the conjuction of those far surpasses what Salamence can do and offer for a team, meaning usage will be higher 95% of the time (unless someone discovers a great set for Sala or whatever).

I know this is true, but Mence still has higher power, sweeping potential, and their bulk difference isn't that great either IF dragonite doesn't get an advantageous switch that it can Roost on. It's still susceptible to status, it can still lose multiscale if it comes in on any entry hazard, and its bulk isn't that much higher than Mence's when not factoring in multiscale (say, if both switch in onto SR on a weak hit from a wall). 95/80/80 is decent, and 91/95/100 is noticeably better, but not that much so, and with a switch-in Mence has slightly better physical bulk on switch-in via Intimidate.

 

[M BLADE]

People can still use Safeguard to guard against status. Yeah, something using Safeguard competitively...

Physically, i say Dragonite has slightly more power. Yes, 134 to 135 barely makes any difference... but Fire Punch (Salamence has Fire Fang) and Extremespeed does. Though this is... well, irrelevant, i guess.
Specially, the power is lower... but then again Dragonite has Thunderbolt, Focus Blast, Ice Beam (ok, no one will use the last two ones)... hell, Hurricane is beastly too although only useable on rain.

Bulk isn't imporant; Salamence won't make use of it. Instead, it makes use of it's immediate higher speed and more overall power (perfect for... mixed sets or straight setup attakcing) to punish the opponents.
Intimidate really depends: i remember using Dragonite with heavy defense investiment on gen 4 (so much that it took 33-37% from CB Bullet Punch form Scizor; yeah. I got a sweep after that). Detail: Scizor came to revenge me. If it was Salamence... i don't think Intimidte would be of any help.
What am i trying to say is that it's defensive stats (even not factoring Multiscale) allows Dragonite to be flexible, unlike Salamence who has no business of making use of it's defensive stats (keep in mind: Intimidate is not a stat). The fact that Dragonite is basically as strong as Sala physically doesn't help Sala that much if we count DD sets.

You can change EVs to defense, special defense, attack, special attack... Dragonite has potential to use every little stat, has the movepool for that, and the only thing that Dragonite was realy lacking (ability) is now well served.

Salamence, on the other hand, is pretty much the same (it got Moxie. Really good ability... if it could use Outrage with). On a metagame where even Garchomp is allowed... well... unforunately Sala lost it's shine.

Dragonite is favorable to the metagame we have now, that's the difference. And also not only favorable, but also esay to fit on pretty much any kind of team (Heavy offense, balanced, stall, weather abuser, anti weather... Dragonite can fit in on any style without being "out of place". Like Blissey on offense. Or Salamence on stall).

 

[Zacchaeus]

Salamence getting Moxie and Dragonite getting Multiscale are just further pulling them apart and giving them increasingly different roles. Just look at the differences between Dragon Dance Dragonite (bulky and 1 attack) and Salamence (offensive and 2/3 attacks)

 

[skitz0phrenic]

This is a pretty fun set to use on rain teams:

Dragonite (M) @ Life Orb Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SAtk / 8 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Agility
- Thunder
- Hurricane
- Ice Beam


A better speed could probably be found for outspeeding threatening scarfers, but this is the point. Works much better late game as Blissey walls it all day, but if their Bliss is down/they don't have one, it's very easy to get the Agility on Multiscale and just sweep away.

 

[truevillany]

People can still use Safeguard to guard against status. Yeah, something using Safeguard competitively...

Physically, i say Dragonite has slightly more power. Yes, 134 to 135 barely makes any difference... but Fire Punch (Salamence has Fire Fang) and Extremespeed does. Though this is... well, irrelevant, i guess.
Specially, the power is lower... but then again Dragonite has Thunderbolt, Focus Blast, Ice Beam (ok, no one will use the last two ones)... hell, Hurricane is beastly too although only useable on rain.

Bulk isn't imporant; Salamence won't make use of it. Instead, it makes use of it's immediate higher speed and more overall power (perfect for... mixed sets or straight setup attakcing) to punish the opponents.
Intimidate really depends: i remember using Dragonite with heavy defense investiment on gen 4 (so much that it took 33-37% from CB Bullet Punch form Scizor; yeah. I got a sweep after that). Detail: Scizor came to revenge me. If it was Salamence... i don't think Intimidte would be of any help.
What am i trying to say is that it's defensive stats (even not factoring Multiscale) allows Dragonite to be flexible, unlike Salamence who has no business of making use of it's defensive stats (keep in mind: Intimidate is not a stat). The fact that Dragonite is basically as strong as Sala physically doesn't help Sala that much if we count DD sets.

You can change EVs to defense, special defense, attack, special attack... Dragonite has potential to use every little stat, has the movepool for that, and the only thing that Dragonite was realy lacking (ability) is now well served.

Salamence, on the other hand, is pretty much the same (it got Moxie. Really good ability... if it could use Outrage with). On a metagame where even Garchomp is allowed... well... unforunately Sala lost it's shine.

Dragonite is favorable to the metagame we have now, that's the difference. And also not only favorable, but also esay to fit on pretty much any kind of team (Heavy offense, balanced, stall, weather abuser, anti weather... Dragonite can fit in on any style without being "out of place". Like Blissey on offense. Or Salamence on stall).

1st off guys, the usage stats dont mean as much as you think. With things getting in and out of ou in the upcoming months, no one really knows what will happen in regards to the dragons in question. I think we can all say that they will be ou @ least though. Secondly, Salamence doesnt have it's dream world ability available in regular play. This being the case, it is not likely that we are getting accurate numbers to compare usage stats up to this point.

My opinion on the two... dragonite will remain an anti-metagame staple no matter how many suspect tests are done. It is just too bulky and too threatening no matter what its set. Salamence will become more predictable, which will hurt it a little bit (i.e. If he's running intimidate, odds are it will be mixed, and if it has moxie, you will know automatically that it is the dragon dance/cb version). However, it will likely rise in usage with moxie; you can build an entire team around moxie mence and it will completely handle everything on its own, given an opportunity to set up a dragon dance or two. As a matter of fact i would venture to predict that it will change the game to a more offensive game, and will discourage the use of walls like blissey/ferrothorn. Oh and all ferrothorn will have to carry gyro ball to guard against mence, so i will lower ferro's utility a bit (although most ferro carry gyro ball anyways). This will be significant because there are some sets of ferro that are complete set up bait for moxie mence (i.e. choosing between twave/toxic, leech seed, or spikes/sr) that are currenly viable now.

 

[JSND]

Too bad moxie isnt that good

And it imply that moxie + outrage is illegal

 

[truevillany]

Too bad moxie isnt that good

And it imply that moxie + outrage is illegal

Yea it is illegal with moxie... but i completely disagree that moxie is not that good... I think as a whole, intimidate is superior of the two abilities... But to say it is a bad ability is a little presumptous. Even with dragon claw this guy makes a very threatening set up sweeper... Esspecially late game.

 

[JSND]

hence why i say isnt that good

 

[truevillany]

hence why i say isnt that good

.... i dont get it

 

[KurashiDragon]

@truevillany

I believe he's saying that it's bad on Salamence because without Outrage, it's not as good as it could be. Granted it's a good ability on set up sweepers like Salamence but without Outrage your losing alot of power.

 

[truevillany]

@truevillany

I believe he's saying that it's bad on Salamence because without Outrage, it's not as good as it could be. Granted it's a good ability on set up sweepers like Salamence but without Outrage your losing alot of power.

Yea I got what he was saying... I just dont get why that ability "sucks" I just did a few calcs on a + 1 jolly Salamence dragon claw and it outspeeds and ohkos the majority of stuff in ou after sr (or puts them in a situation where if they cannot ohko mence, he is going to definitely outspeed and ko them next turn). In an effort to keep this discussion about dragonite i will not post them here... I just encourage the doubters to run a few calcs, and when doing so remember: all mence needs is one dd and one victim... he becomes a serious problem @ that point. Is it as good as running outrage? Ofcourse not... Does it still rape shit? absolutely

 

[impact36inc]

Here's a set I've been using on my Sun team that I love:

Draco @ Yache Berry
Multiscale
108 HP / 164 Atk / 236 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
- Dragon Claw
- Fire Punch

It's so awesome. I think JabbaTheGriffin mentioned he was using this move-set during the latest SmogCast, but under Hail. I actually made this before I heard that, but Fire Punch is so much more beneficial under Sun.

 

[GHU Jockmaster]

An anti-lead set I use

Dragonite@Lum Berry
Multiscale
Adamant 252 Att/252 Sp/6 HP
-Dragon Dance
-Outrage
-Earthquake
-Fire Punch

This thing is one of the sickest early sweepers I have ever used. The only common leads that stop it are TTar and Hippo from my thourough testing. Nothing OHKOs except STAB Blizzards without crits, so you are basically guaranteed a DD. If you are matched up on a hazard setting lead, such as Forretress or Ferro, go ahead and say gg. Basicalyy the three moves cover literally everything and the berry throws off Ninetales leads and ghosts who Wisp plus Thunder Wavers. When I did a test of about 100 matches, this thing averaged like 2.1 KOs per match, with a significant amount of clean sweeps. Basically, +1 Outrage dominates like any non steel type

 

[SlimMan]

^^^
Air Balloon Heatran says "hi".

However, the only way to cover that is to use Dragon Claw+Earthquake or to use Brick Break, neither of which is as useful for a completely offensive set such as that.
So I'd say the best thing you could do is replace EQ with Roost, because EQ gives you completely redundant coverage with Fire Punch.

 

[IcyMan28]

Seconding SlimMan's post. Honestly, a full out offensive DD set is still outclassed by Salamence in my opinion, since it is pretty easy to pull off that first DD with either one of them.

Roost + DD is huge for Dragonite, and it is the only dragon capable of pulling it off effectively (lol Altaria).

 

[PlainN]

Seconding SlimMan's post. Honestly, a full out offensive DD set is still outclassed by Salamence in my opinion, since it is pretty easy to pull off that first DD with either one of them.

Roost + DD is huge for Dragonite, and it is the only dragon capable of pulling it off effectively (lol Altaria).

Yes the first DD is easy, but as I keep saying, the key to offensive DDNite is its ability to get the second DD easily as well. You just have to come in on a clean field (no stealth rocks) after a teammate KO. DD on the turn they switch out (to a counter), survive the counterattack hit with multiscale while DDing again, and then proceed from there. Salamence's Intimidate activates immediately on the Pokemon that was going to be switched out anyway.

Granted, this is very situational, and Salamence is much more flexible with Intimidate since it can switch in on attacks, but to say that offensive DDNite is still completely outclassed is an overstatement now.