It's 50% for all not fully-evolved pokémon (and Phione is a standalone).OP said:
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Eviolite
- Thread starter Garganator
- Start date
If the Pokemon is pre-evolved (base form or middle stage), then its defenses get the 50% boost.
Just wondering why I don't see more Eviolite Scyther / Duskull
Duskull gets levitate
Duskull gets 145 SpD/Def compared to 169 SpD/Def on Dusclops, so you're only trading base 24 in defenses, 10 base hp, for being able to ignore toxic spikes/spikes, and EQ.
You can still trick room / willowisp / night shade too.
Scyther gets 120 base Def/Spd, decent base HP, decent attack stats and speed, roost and swords dance. Sure his typing is kind of bad for a tank... but with spinner support, Scyther could get 2 swords dance off easily with his bulk.
Duskull gets levitate
Duskull gets 145 SpD/Def compared to 169 SpD/Def on Dusclops, so you're only trading base 24 in defenses, 10 base hp, for being able to ignore toxic spikes/spikes, and EQ.
You can still trick room / willowisp / night shade too.
Scyther gets 120 base Def/Spd, decent base HP, decent attack stats and speed, roost and swords dance. Sure his typing is kind of bad for a tank... but with spinner support, Scyther could get 2 swords dance off easily with his bulk.
Scyther is not used, even with good spinner support, due to movepool issues. Pretty much any steel could lol at him. If you intend on using Roost, literally ANY STEEL would wall him cold.
Dusclops can also abuse the Eviolite, and it does it WAY better than most Pokemon. Duskull may have good defenses with Eviolite, but Dusclops gets colossal defenses and Pressure. Levitate isn't worth the defenses.
And Scyther is ass in OU. lol
I wasn't thinking of putting Scyther against Ferrothorn. He is UU still right?
Actually I was thinking a set like...
Roost
Rock Smash
Bug Bite
Swords Dance / Quick Attack
Hear me out - Scyther has above average defenses with eviolite. He can force a switch and get a swords dance off. The tank that comes in is going to have to do something to disable Scyther or he'll be whittled away by 60 BP rock smash lowering defenses and +2 on scyther's attack (bringing it to 450).
It could work. I think I might test it. Though I dunno what kind of team to build around such a pokemon. mmm
Isn't Brick Break still stronger than a Technician-boosted Rock Smash? I know that you'll miss out on the Defense lowering side effect of Rock Smash if you use Brick Break, but you need that bit of power.
This time around, I don't think Scyther is meant to be attacking if it uses Eviolite (taken from Scyther's Gen IV analysis):
-Swords Dance/Agility
-Baton Pass
-Bug Bite/Aerial Ace
-Roost/Substitute
Nature:Jolly
EVs: 224 HP/68 Def/216 Spe
Item: Eviolite
Ability: Technician
Is Fury Cutter any good on a Swords Dance Scyther?
Fury Cutter is "good" when you can create a situation where
A) Fury Cutter will not miss (thus negating all the boosts you get with it)
B) You can tank hits for a long time and build up the fury cutter power.
There are few pokemon which can accomplish this. Scyther, with its 4x weakness to rock, 2x to fire, flying, and ice, even with evoilite, does not have the tank necessary to run fury cutter. I mean, you have to at least stop fury cutting to roost - which means you have to start over.
For novelty, you could try Fury Cutter Gliscor/Gligar with poison heal and toxic orb - that would probably the only set that could work. And pray your poison heal is enough to keep you alive. Beyond that, Crustle with metronome/wide lens and some idol worship can net you a kill in OU, but Crustle is likely going to be going down with his opponent. Armaldo too.
Basically, it's never a good move.
Yeah you want that extra bit of power against certain pokemon, but rock smash is intended for a steel type like registeel, which can't necessarily kill scyther outright. Brick Break is strong against registeel, but a good registeel will just stall it out. Rocksmash will either net a KO or force a switch. In theory anyway. If Scyther get's paralyzed... well, Registeel could come out ontop or just switch back to something else.
But against a pokemon like Aggron or something? I mean, I'm pretty sure rock smash or brick break will OHKO it. The point of rock smash is for drawn out situations.
the duskull guy has a legitimate gripe imo. having the ability to completely ignore tspikes as a ghost is huge when facing opposing stall teams. i myself never use dusclops because I think it sucks, but duskull looks like a pretty good option tbh. that and I didnt know duskull even got levitate.
What about this for T-Spikes removal, and status spreading?
Gloom
Base Stat Totals: 60 / 65 / 70 / 85 / 75 / 40
With the stone, this becomes 60 / 140 / 150 defences. This would be better than Duskull as far as HP and Defences go, and rivals Dusclops' 40 / 130 / 130 stat total (these are the HP / Def / SpDef stats without the stone).
Sleep Powder and Stun Spore give double status. Aleo, even though Chlorophyll is a joke of an ability as far as helping it's speed any amount worth speaking off, the sun in UU offers an amazingy reliable Moonlight (or Synthisis, but this option is illegal with Leech Seed).
Sub-Seed
Substitute / Leech Seed (or Giga Drain) / Toxic / Protect
Double Status
Sleep Powder / Stun Spore / Moonlight / Giga Drain
or
Sleep Powder / Toxic / Moonlight / Venoshock
*EDIT*
For the sun boost of Moonlight, it might be best to have a bulky Cloud Nine Poke on your team to keep the perma-sun going. I suggest DW Lickilicky.
*EDIT2*
Use Altara for Cloud Nine support, not Lickilicky.
Scyther might do well in UU, but it has to many negative attributes to be really effective in OU.
Your math is funny. Eviolite on Oddish is +50% to defenses, Eviolite on Gloom is +30% to defenses. But even if it were +50%, there's no way you get 2x defenses (140/2 = 70). Gloom actually nets:
60 hp, 91 defense, 97.5 spD (when working with +% increases, treat "normality" as 100% or 1.0 and a 30% increase as 130% or 1.3, 70*1.3=91)
Everything else looks okay, and Gloom is decent, but you'd have to run some numbers to actually check and see if it's better than Vileplume, who gets 15 more base hp with slightly lower defenses.
If you're going to run venoshock/giga you should just use vileplume, only reason to use gloom is for better defenses and run leech seed + toxic + substitute or something. Gloom's DW ability also sucks compared to Vileplume's (though neither have good DW abilities honestly).
Not that I think Duskull > Dusclops, but Duskull's lower base hp makes pain split all the stronger. You can effectively deal with even low base HP pokemon this way. Plus, being able to switch in on ground attacks is a huge plus for a wall like Duskull - though I've tried him a bit in OU now and he's really just a tad too frail for it (You can't really afford to do much else but spam pain split against an opponent if they're something strong like latias/heatran, but it works out because they can't really switch out and try to negate your pain split). He's also too easily shutdown by substitutes and taunt, so you need something to switch to if you predict that. But Night Shade / WoW / Snatch / Pain Split works beautifully (Snatch OWNS Blissey, you can just spam snatch after WoW'ing her and she'll have to switch out or feebly try to kill you).
Um what. It's been known for a long long time that Eviolite grants 50% to whoever can use it.
Except Duskull can't do anything else other than that. Eviolite Duskull must be the most random gimmick ever. That set doesn't own Blissey either, who can Toxic your face while you burn it, and the pink blob can just run away to someone else the next turn. Pain Splitting sucks while you are poisoned, period.
Just saying, but Moonlight and Synthesis are the EXACT same thing, so it doesn't really matter if it's illegal with Leech Seed.
It offers +50% to "genesis" forms (Scyther, Oddish, Duskull) and 30% to secondary forms in three form evolutions (Gloom, Dusclops). It doesn't offer +100% (or 200%) of defenses, but only 50% more. His math showed Gloom getting 150 base special defense, which is impossible. It gets 75*1.3, or, if you don't like that method, 30/100*75=22.5, 22.5+75=97.5 special defense. If gloom actually got twice her special defense from eviolite she'd be practically as good a special wall as Probopass.
My fault. I thought all NFE's got the 50% a boost, not just the 1st in the evo lines.
Maybe I was correct about the 50% boost to all NFE's???
And I know both Moonlight and Synthisis are the same, but who knows, maybe someone would be silly enouth to use (as a gimmick) both HP recovery moves on Gloom. It's doubtful, and I don't see it as useful, but it is possible, so I mentioned it.
*Side note*
I didn't see Stench as being viable enough to bother mentioning, either.
Ah, so my theories on Gloom might actually be viable. That's good to know.
*EDIT*
However, I would like to recant on one thing I originally posted. The Cloud Nine Poke (for support) should be Altaria (not Lickilicky, despite it's bulk), since it can take hits reasonably well, and resists fire attacks in the sun.
*EDIT*
However, I would like to recant on one thing I originally posted. The Cloud Nine Poke (for support) should be Altaria (not Lickilicky, despite it's bulk), since it can take hits reasonably well, and resists fire attacks in the sun.
Thank God Someone made a thread on this! I've been gone for a month playing Black and white so yea trying to keep pace. Anyway Eviolite-possibly the best new item introduced in 5th gen-yes it GIVES 50% boost on the defense and sp.def stat on all pokemon that can steal evolve sush as scyther and porygon2. I'm 100% sure of this. so let's examine pokemon that become legendary using it:
#1 Dusclops or Duskull
I'm sorry but hands down this guy has to be the best eviolite pokemon. Dusclops/Relaxed nature252def394,252hp284+E stone=
hp284
atk176
def591
sp.atk166
sp.def444
speed irrelevant
So we have a ghost type Shuckle with some attack stats(not to mention that it has ice beam in which I use against Mence&Chomp) more speed and Pressure. let's not even talk about calm mind and willo-wisp!
#2 Porygon2
now one has options to either use pory2 or poryZ. So let's take a look at the virtual duck pokemon: bold nature one that I use 252defense,252hp(sometimes 252ev special attack
hp374
def459
sp.atk246
sp.def339
speed156
Hehehe! I can see why the guy who made this thread used porygon 2 first it also learns ice beam for all these big dragon like haxorus and chomp, and recover.
I could name a lot of strong poke's like chansey (already mentioned here) tangela(544 defense) ONIX yes I said weak onix impish+ E-stone 690 defense 204 sp.defense+ on a sand storm team could probably do some stall stuff like stealth rock and bulldoze. or even Gligar (I personally think it is now better than gliscor with the item) but I leave you with this pokemon in which in my opinion is now hands down better than it's evolution
#3 MAGNETON!
Calm form:
hp304
def339
sp.atk276
sp.def393
spe176
22 less special attack, 22+ speed, 40 less hp than magnezone. so not only does it have huge defenses but also ability sturdy for the chomps who ohko it so it can in return survive and hit it with hp ice. unfortunetly it can not learn mirror coat like it's evolution. but it's stiil considerable!
#1 Dusclops or Duskull
I'm sorry but hands down this guy has to be the best eviolite pokemon. Dusclops/Relaxed nature252def394,252hp284+E stone=
hp284
atk176
def591
sp.atk166
sp.def444
speed irrelevant
So we have a ghost type Shuckle with some attack stats(not to mention that it has ice beam in which I use against Mence&Chomp) more speed and Pressure. let's not even talk about calm mind and willo-wisp!
#2 Porygon2
now one has options to either use pory2 or poryZ. So let's take a look at the virtual duck pokemon: bold nature one that I use 252defense,252hp(sometimes 252ev special attack
hp374
def459
sp.atk246
sp.def339
speed156
Hehehe! I can see why the guy who made this thread used porygon 2 first it also learns ice beam for all these big dragon like haxorus and chomp, and recover.
I could name a lot of strong poke's like chansey (already mentioned here) tangela(544 defense) ONIX yes I said weak onix impish+ E-stone 690 defense 204 sp.defense+ on a sand storm team could probably do some stall stuff like stealth rock and bulldoze. or even Gligar (I personally think it is now better than gliscor with the item) but I leave you with this pokemon in which in my opinion is now hands down better than it's evolution
#3 MAGNETON!
Calm form:
hp304
def339
sp.atk276
sp.def393
spe176
22 less special attack, 22+ speed, 40 less hp than magnezone. so not only does it have huge defenses but also ability sturdy for the chomps who ohko it so it can in return survive and hit it with hp ice. unfortunetly it can not learn mirror coat like it's evolution. but it's stiil considerable!
Dusclops isn't the best Eviolite user. Chansey is.
Do you know what's really horrible? When someone pairs Blissey, Chansey and Dusclops on the same team....
I played against that combination yesterday....against 5 different people ._.
I played against that combination yesterday....against 5 different people ._.
I think a team of ferroseed/gligar/dusclops/duskull/chansey/slowbro is the greatest team evar
A DD or SD Gabite might be able to act as a late-game sweeper once his counters were taken down.