Friend Rulin', Friend Rulin', Yeah!

[Huy]

Rather than shit up Milan's warstory any further with a giant debate about the friend rule, I decided to move everything out of there into it's own thread.

TPCi grants us the privilege to decline to play someone at an event if you are friends with them. I've been following these alot of the threads in this forum and have seen alot of people who I know don't ever interact with each other pre-arranging to 'friend rule' with others just so they don't have to play other Smogonites. We don't want to see this happening. This rule is a privilege that TPCi grants us and should not be abused. The purpose of these tournaments is to have fun. The friend rule isn't supposed to be used to your benefit to avoid people that know what they're doing, it's just so you don't have to play with your actual FRIENDS. People that you've known for years, travelled with, or talk to on a regular basis.

Do not abuse it.

 

[pokemonrocks777]

ok so whats a friend clause?

 

[breh]

ok so whats a friend clause?

Say for example I see Huy sitting across from me and it's not top 16 or anything.

If I do not want to fight him out of fear of his superiority as a VGCer, I can ask to be paired with a different opponent that won't kick my ass.

EDIT: I'm not implying that that is what I would have done; I didn't have to use the friend rule during the tournament and probably would not; this was an example for example's sake. At the very least, this is how I have understood the friend rule.

In any case, if you're up against an opponent who you know is better, you're going to face him or her eventually anyway.

@Bianca222: I apologize for not saying hi, but as you may guess from the brief meeting we had, I am rather shy. Nervousness about getting in to top 16 compounded that multiple times. Also, I did not want to misidentify anybody. Literally the only person I knew at that table from the start was ShinyPachirisu, who I knew from middle school (and who I have seen at VGC09-11). I'm sorry if I offended you; I genuinely did not mean to. To me, it seemed better to avoid saying much instead of saying something that could make me look stupid.

Otherwise, I apologize for starting this discussion in the first place. It's been uneeded on what should be an otherwise more or less celebratory thread.

 

[evan]

Don't even think about doing that.

 

[Kinneas]

That's exactly the kind of thing we are trying to discourage. I crush all my friends on the path to victory, friend rule is for the weak.

 

[JRank]

To give a real-life example about friend rule, here's what happened to me. My friend from childhood rode down to the event with me, and when we got matched up in the first round, I said to the judge, "sir, I rode down here with this guy, could one of us switch so we don't have to battle?" The judge said yeah switch with the guy beside you. But I only did that because HE RODE WITH ME. If it had been a Smogonite like shinyweavile who I'd never met IRL, I honestly wouldn't have asked to switch, I would take the chance of losing because the rule is not meant to be abused. That's what the rule is for, people who you've known for a long time or traveled to the event with, not because you're scared to lose.

 

[commi$$ioner]

The "friend rule" is this thing where you avoid fighting people that you KNOW, as defined by someone that you talk to on a regular basis or better yet, someone that you traveled to the tournament with. All of you who abuse this "rule" just so you can find an easier player make me sick. In Seattle, I was paired with a very capable opponent named Joey in the third round that knew what he was doing, but did I call this "rule" that we speak of? No, I battled him and accepted my loss to uphold the integrity of the tournament unlike you little kids.

JRank, I applaud you and have nothing but the utmost respect for you after knowing you didn't call the "rule" on your round 4 opponent.

Anyways, congratulations on your strong finish. However, I would definitely watch the way you present yourself for a bit because that was a dick move on your part towards Andrea who I consider a close friend of mine...

 

[CRITICO!]

The thing is we all agreed to do friend clause because we all wanted smogonites in the top cut to represent. So me, Ryuzaki, BadIntent, lucariojr, Werecario, and Calm_Lava tried to avoid each other and save us till the end. I've talked to each of them before so I knew who they were, and we agreed since of course, we ARE a team. And teammates stick together until the end. That's the only reason. I played so many lurkers and I wasn't scared. In those matches, you just need to play with your A-game and at your highest level.

 

[Eraddd]

The thing is we all agreed to do friend clause because we all wanted smogonites in the top cut to represent. So me, Ryuzaki, BadIntent, lucariojr, Werecario, and Calm_Lava tried to avoid each other and save us till the end. I've talked to each of them before so I knew who they were, and we agreed since of course, we ARE a team. And teammates stick together until the end. That's the only reason. I played so many lurkers and I wasn't scared. In those matches, you just need to play with your A-game and at your highest level.

Doesn't change a thing. Still trying to discourage.

 

[Cybertron]

Sorry to jack your thread Milan! Just wanted to throw some opinions out there.

Regionals isn't just about breezing through opponent so you can have easy wins. Isn't it the difficult wins that make it challenging and fun? I don't know about you, but I'd rather have a really close and hard game then just winning 4-0 against anyone. The friend rule, like Duy said, should really only be used against people you're really close to in VGC's. (Whether they be someone you play test often with, travel with, etc.) Don't take advantage of it :/

(This isn't directed at you, btw)

 

[CRITICO!]

Bianca222-I didn't friend clause because I was scared of them. We were a team, representing our own areas. We didn't want to knock each other out early. Also, I played all capable opponents with the exception of maybe 1. My round 4 opponent almost beat me with double freeze hax, but I lived with it and fought back. Fighting weaker ppl is terrible as it shows one has no courage to face people who know what they are doing. I was pretty proud of my gameplay and I honored all my opponents for good matches cuz last yr, it was much easier. I had to work very hard to make Top cut this year.

 

[commi$$ioner]

That statement wasn't directly targeted at you, per se, it is a general statement that hopefully people will start abiding by (especially Breludicolo, you didn't even say hi to us when we sat next to each other at the table, wtf, and you expect to call a friend rule on that? Total bullshit if you ask me.)

 

[CRITICO!]

That statement wasn't directly targeted at you, per se, it is a general statement that hopefully people will start abiding by (especially Breludicolo, you didn't even say hi to us when we sat next to each other at the table, wtf, and you expect to call a friend rule on that? Total bullshit if you ask me.)

Oh okay, sorry about that! I do agree with u Bianca222. A person did that to me round 3 and I was like wtf! Why do you not wanna battle me? The guy didn't want to play me cuz I was wearing my 2010 Worlds Hawaii shirt. Like what the heck? They even let him do it and I said I didn't know him! -___-

 

[Calm_Lava]

You friend ruled me. I knew who you were but wasnt going to friend rule because i didn't know you personally. And don't bring BI and ryuzaki into this too because they didn't abuse the friend rule. The only person at that tourney i would have friend rule'd would have been ryuzaki. I knew who you were cause i creep on facebook like a pro and i was all for fighting you and just knew it'd be a tough battle. And this is one of those rules that we're BEYOND lucky to have, and if we start to get lots of people, especially with the influx of people who play on PO, who call friend rule because they've battled like once before or because they lurk the same site, then we will definitely see this rule provoked.

 

[CRITICO!]

Oh, I thought you were pointing at me too when you saw me. Guess you weren't. xD We did in the beginning because we entered as a group and like I played the person in line before them, and he was one hell of a player! So regardless of friend clausing with em, I had a hard match that set the tone for the day, as the matches got harder and harder. Regardless, sorry for the misunderstanding as I thought we both had the same idea in mind cuz we both pointed at each other. lol Nonetheless, great meeting such a great player man! I understand your opinion of the friend rule, and I won't use it next year. I played great players throughout the day and I was proud of my performance.

 

[andrea]

Guys there is a reason we call it friend rule instead of acquaintance rule!

 

[DM]

That pretty much means I will have to wait in line for LCQs by myself, I know all my friends can kick my ass. :kongler:

 

[imperfectspider]

There is a lot of negativity in this thread, and I think it is for the most part unwarranted. It at least belongs in another thread, and it is unfortunate that all of these opinions just happen to be coming out on your warstory.

Hide

For those of you that care about my opinion:

I can't help but notice that almost all of the people who are angry with you about the friend rule are ducks and other smogon mods, who are personal friends with almost anyone that they would have reason to fear at the tournaments. Of course, they are going to debate that by saying that they wouldn't friend rule people like Halordain or the Schambers brothers, but those three or four people pale in comparison to the 35+ ducks, all top tier Pokemon players. There isn't a comparable situation in the entire nation, or a larger or more skilled support group.

It is wholly in the ducks' interest to discourage the utilization of the friend rule in any way, because what it results in is a thinning out of the competition in the earlier rounds of the tournament. Less skilled battlers make it to the top 16 when two skilled trainers who have been training for months meet up in the first 4 rounds. Although this may not be the primary motive behind their discouragement of using the rule, it certainly is a side-effect. It is also interesting to note that skarm has said before that the VGC planners have been instructed to not pair ducks together in the tournament anyways.

Personally, I believe that any rule that would allow any top tier battlers that meet up in the first round to be relegated to less skilled players is one that encourages a more fair tournament. I won't cite any examples, but even in my short VGC career, we have all have seen several nondeserving teams make it to the national championships, while better battlers do not make it when the friend rule could have been easily utilized. And even past that, I would consider any fellow IRC regular on the channels that I go to worthy of friend ruling, most smogonites or *WEBSITE NAME CENSORED* too. I don't like to think of this community as a hostile one, even though it often times proves to be. Also, I would without a doubt friend rule someone who I spent hours talking to before the tournament.

These may be controversial opinions, but I do not doubt that there are several others who believe the same thing, but are too afraid to post them against the opinion of seemingly all the ducks and smogon mods. I, too, am afraid that this post will be deleted or that even worse will happen to me for disagreeing with the powers that be on this website. I do not feel that my stance on the friend rule is against the tournament's spirit, nor do I think that it is abusive or illegal. I think that both sides of this discussion need to be heard. Perhaps a better reason than "It's called the FRIEND rule!" is in order (especially since there is no mention of a rule by that name on the official VGC site. As far as I know, it is a term coined by smogon).

Also, to do with the whole Andrea situation: really? She can fight her own battles. She doesn't need 10 guys white-knighting her over every silly thing. Problem could have easily been solved with half the aggression you showed Milan, and much more discretion (a PM, maybe?).

I have more to say on this, but I think I got my main point across. I don't have any ill-will towards the ducks, but I do believe that this discussion has been almost entirely dominated by them, as others have been before, and that one-sidedness is something that makes me uneasy, to say the least.

Congratulations on a fine performance in Dallas, Milan, and I hope to see you continue your success at Nats, Worlds, and tournaments to come. You deserve a pat on the back after the disproportionate amount of punches that have been thrown your way.

 

[Firestorm]

I thought this was going to be another pile-on post bitching about CRITICO!'s conduct and tell people to stop bumping the thread with that shit, but looks like I was wrong. Obviously someone you talk to regularly on IRC would be someone you'd friend rule considering you're probably friends. Unless of course you're a troll on IRC and everybody just can't wait to knock you out. I would also friend rule someone I spent hours getting to know before the tournament. It is NOT however okay to friend rule someone just because you think they're good. This is not for seeding. I've seen an instance or two of people calling friend rule on players who have no idea who they are. Considering the perception of some is that the Ducks are all god tier players, you'd think itd be beneficial to them for everyone from Smogon to avoid them like the plague, no? This isn't about an easier path to the finals. Its about not having to play our friends in the first round after paying $500 or whatever it costs to fly there.

 

[Synre]

I think the Smogon mod part of this is what I wish some of you who've been pretty critical of what we've said here would focus on here more than the Duck part -- we all have a certain degree of responsibility for what people on this forum are doing in the events, and obviously a much greater one for what people are writing in this subforum(especially given our relative autonomy).

The bottom line is: do you think TPCI doesn't have people reading this forum occasionally? I'm not sure how much some of the people reading this know about JAA, since I know most of the people here started with the Gen 4 events, but basically we stuck our foot in our mouth hard and we need to show we learned something from that as we're rather enjoying having a more amiable relationship with the powers that be these days. I feel pretty comfortable TPCI didn't add the rule as psuedoseeding so much as to avoid forcing people to play their close friends early in the tournament, and we appreciate that rule. Since we appreciate it, we'd like to try and combat its misuse so it doesn't get yanked. We're kinda obligated to protect TPCI's interests, anyway -- our stance here is similarly based as our stance on hacking, which we've tightened up on since Smogon's creation during Gen 3. This is also why I jumped the lurker comment; this is not how we want to be portrayed these days.

Obviously this does benefit a larger group of friends like the Ducks more (though only really at the LCQs), though I don't feel too guilty callling the friend rule on someone I've known since 2002 like Articuno64 or text every day like zerowing, and we aren't discouraging using the friend rule when you have a relationship with your opponent, either. Fwiw I played and beat Chalkey in R2 of JAA Detroit(who I didn't actually know at the time, but who went on to win the Cincinatti stop) and Fishy in R2 of Nats LCQ last year(because they didn't let me friend rule), so I've seen the other side of this some with the hard early round schedule, too. It's unfortunate when good players play early, but it is worse when friends have to face off after practicing together for months, and that is what we'd like to continue being able to avoid. Being able to do this is a privlidge, one I'm not certain if people are really choosing to accept could be revoked if we misuse it -- it isn't like it was there originally. Check out the JAA Nats bracket if you want to see what can happen if things head too far in the other direction...

 

[theamericandream38]

I agree with Firestorm, especially his last point. I can definitely see an "outsider" seeing it as the ducks wanting to avoid other good players, but (for me at least) it really is about friendship. I'm driving 10+ hours (one way) to the LCQ, and I don't really want to play against a friend who spent a similar amount of time/money in the first round. I don't cheer people on and hope they wn because they're the best players, I do it because they are my friends and I like them.

 

[mattj]

Nats '10 T16 R1.

Yeah, the friend rule shouldn't be a means to avoid good players. I'm glad it's here though. I would hate to have to play someone I came with, or someone I've spent hours and hours battling with on IRC (at least early in the tournament). Just because you know me though, doesn't mean I know you.

 

[NidoRich]

The only time I'll use the Friend Rule is to avoid my 2 friends and my brother who I am going with, not out of fear of getting beat or anything (because I could beat all 3) but it's simply because I would feel awful knowing I beat them....especially my bro.

If I get paired up with a top-class smogonite in the first round then I'll go out with guns blazing knowing I did my best against a top class opponent.

 

[Werecario]

I understand both sides of the argument and can see reasonable instances for the "friend rule" and times against it. In Milan's defense, the only time that he used the friend rule (that I'm aware of) was against me in round 4 at Dallas. We had talked for a bit before the tournament started, but weren't in line together. When it came time to the fourth round we initially got paired together but asked for the "friend rule". Some people may frown upon it, and I don't care, I cant do or say anything to change your minds, but look at the results if we hadn't "friend ruled". Our opponents would have ended up playing each other causing one of them to make it to the finals, mine who, no offense, didnt have a team that would have got past round 1 of finals, and Milan's opponent who, also no offense, didn't know about rng (or ivs i think) and called a hack check because of shinies. Also either Milan or myself would have not made it to the finals, depriving one of us the chance at a spot in nationals. Because of the fact we used the "friend rule" we both made it to nats, which is think is the most fair. I dont know about Milan but I have been practicing since February and I'm sure he has been practicing probably around the same time. The fact dedicated players with teams good enough to qualify for nats would get knocked out because of lack of seeding doesn't seem fair to me.

I do think that you shouldn't friend rule someone you dont know, and just know of. I would never friend rule Zerowing or Huy because I dont know them and have never talked to them. I admit that I did do this at Dallas last year with OmegaDonut, but that was my rookie year and I do feel a little guilty for it. We aren't talking about last year though. This year if offered to "friend rule" someone that I have talked to and I know is deserving and good enough to make it further then I would "friend rule" also. I know it is not our job as players to try to seed the regional qualifiers but if top 16 of nats is an example then it shows that TCPI does try to make it fair for the better players. There is just simply too may people or not enough time to do that elsewhere. I'm sure anyone that has had to battle someone on their level during the first few matches would agree with me.

I don't want to turn any of this hostility you have for "friend rulers" against me, I'm just stating my opinion. I will only ask for a "friend rule" for the reasons stated above and if you choose to battle anyways, be my guest and sorry about having to beat you ;)

 

[ΩDonut]

I admit that I did do this at Dallas last year with OmegaDonut

Wait, what? I don't remember any of this. I don't think I even knew what you looked like last year.