Donphan (Analysis) [QC 3/3]

SilentVerse

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Donphan

Status: Ready for QC checks I guess?

[Overview]


  • Donphan is still a great Rapid Spinner who has the ability to severely threaten spinblockers such as Mismagius and Rotom.
  • Sturdy has given Donphan a nice buff, since if necessary, you can keep Donphan in against something nasty to Rapid Spin or such.
  • Unfortunately, with the advent of bulkier Ghosts such as Dusclops and Cofagrigus, it becomes harder for Donphan to successfully Rapid Spin, even with the enormous power behind his attacks.
  • Donphan also suffers from new, stronger threats who can deal more damage to him.
  • Hitmontop is also now a bigger competitor as a Rapid Spinner, as priority is almost necessary now to check most faster threats.
[SET]
name: Offensive Rapid Spin
move 1: Rapid Spin
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Stealth Rock / Ice Shard
move 4: Head Smash / Stone Edge / Ice Shard
item: Leftovers
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def

[SET COMMENTS]

  • Hits harder than the previous set which allows him to beat more spin blockers.
  • Can also pose a huge threat with Max Attack STAB Earthquakes off Base 120 Attack.
  • Donphan is still fairly bulky, so he can still check some threats.
  • Donphan has plenty of opportunities to set up Stealth Rock due to his ability to Rapid Spin.
  • Stone Edge nails levitating Ghosts for reasonable damage and provides good coverage alongside Earthquake.
  • Ice Shard is for priority; allows Donphan to check frailer, Ice weak sweepers.
[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

  • Max Attack for power, HP for bulk.
  • 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Def for more physical bulk but less special
  • Assurance can hit Ghosts super effectively, but is usually inferior to Stone Edge, Ice Shard, or Stealth Rock.

  • Similar to the last set in that entry hazard weak Pokemon appreciate Donphan's support.
  • However, this Donphan works better on more offensively oriented teams who appreciate Donphan's ability to Rapid Spin in addition to his power.
[SET]
name: Defensive Rapid Spin
move 1: Rapid Spin
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Roar / Odor Sleuth
move 4: Stealth Rock
item: Leftovers
nature: Impish
evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def

[SET COMMENTS]


  • Bulky spinner designed to last throughout the match.
  • Great Defense allows him to check many threats.
  • Earthquake for reasonably strong STAB.
  • Roar to phaze, scout, and rack up damage with entry hazards. Also prevents anything immune to Ground from setting up on Donphan.
  • Stealth Rock support is always cool.
  • Odor Sleuth is an option over Roar if you feel that Donphan needs to be able to consistently Rapid Spin, but Roar is usually better.
  • Knock Off is cool over Odor Sleuth to cripple Ghost-types that switch in.
[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

  • Max Defense investment for the most bulk.
  • Specially defensive spread for mixed bulk?
  • Rest with appropriate cleric support.

  • Pokemon who dislike taking entry hazard damage make good partners; Victini, Yanmega, Arcanine, Staraptor, etc.
  • More suited for teams in need of something bulky that can consistently spin; better on balanced teams.

[SET]
name: Choice Band
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Head Smash / Stone Edge
move 3: Ice Shard / Toxic
move 4: Rapid Spin
item: Choice Band
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def

[SET COMMENTS]

  • Just hits really hard.
  • Surprises opponents who expect a standard tank Donphan, only to be blown away by this set's power.
  • Earthquake hits hard and gets STAB; it's not particularly good to simply spam though due to all the Ground resists in UU.
  • Stone Edge complements Earthquake well, and it smashes through most Pokemon who are immune to Earthquake.
  • Rapid Spin is good to remove hazards, especially since this set can dispose of Ghosts somewhat easily.
  • Head Smash just hits extremely hard, but the recoil can be undesirable.
  • Ice Shard can be used over Rapid Spin to allow Donphan to revenge some Pokemon.
[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

  • Speed EVs are basically useless since Donphan is so slow, so the EVs go into HP for bulk.
  • Good for teams that need Ghost-types out of the way since Donphan tends to lure them in and he can dispose of them easily.
[Other Options]

  • Lv 25 Sturdy abuse with Endeavor.
  • Rock Polish to attempt a sweep.
  • Assorted physical attacks (Seed Bomb, Superpower, Bounce)
  • Counter + Sturdy.
[Checks and Counters]

  • Cofagrigus and Dusclops are pains to Rapid Spin against. Unless Donphan has Odor Sleuth, he won't have enough power to break through them.
  • Levitating pokes are immune to Earthquake, and can usually be bulky enough to survive Stone Edge or such attacks.
  • Grass-types such as Tangrowth are annoying since they resist Ground and can threaten Donphan with their STAB moves.
[Dream World]

  • Sand Veil isn't that great of an ability, and is usually dwarfed by Sturdy on most teams.
  • However, on sandstorm teams, you can attempt to use Donphan to annoy the opponent with Substitute.
  • This is usually done better by Sandslash, who has the opportunity to boost his Attack with Swords Dance every time the opponent misses (Donphan does get Rock Polish though).
 
I'd call the first set Offensive Rapid Spin. Rapid Spin can be abused defensively as well as abusing Stealth Rock in the same set.

Donphan @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
Nature: Impish
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def or 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD (doesn't really matter)
Rapid Spin
Stealth Rock
Roar
Earthquake

IMO, this is a complete set. It's really all you need for a spinner of this sort.

In AC, you should mention it can use Rock Polish alongside very good coverage in STAB EQ, Stone Edge and priority Ice Shard. Some sort of Mamoswine-B. It can also abuse Knock Off to some extent.

What you could also mention, a kind of gimmick but highly effective when played and supported right.

Donphan @ Shell Bell
Level: 1
Trait: Sturdy
Nature: Brave
IVs: 0 HP / 31 Att / 0 Def / 0-31 SpA / 0 SpD / 0 Spe
EVs: 252 Atk
Endeavor
Ice Shard
Protect
Rapid Spin / Sandstorm / Toxic / Roar / Knock Off / Earthquake / filler

In the last slot you can pretty much use any move you like that doesnt boost its stats other than attack. It's really really deadly.

Don't laugh, test it.
 

prem

failed abortion
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there is no legal way of getting a level 1 donphan, making the second set illegal. i do agree w/ the first set though
 

Nexus

Forever the Recusant
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What you could also mention, a kind of gimmick but highly effective when played and supported right.

Donphan @ Shell Bell
Level: 1
Trait: Sturdy
Nature: Brave
IVs: 0 HP / 31 Att / 0 Def / 0-31 SpA / 0 SpD / 0 Spe
EVs: 252 Atk
Endeavor
Ice Shard
Protect
Rapid Spin / Sandstorm / Toxic / Roar / Knock Off / Earthquake / filler

In the last slot you can pretty much use any move you like that doesnt boost its stats other than attack. It's really really deadly.

Don't laugh, test it.
This is an illegal set, the lowest Donphan's level could be is 5 using the pomeg glitch in emerald (not counting some level rollover glitch in Ruby/Sapphire), and it couldn't get Ice Shard in 3rd gen and the pomeg glitch isn't available 4th gen where you could tutor endeavor and it was also an egg move. Just because Pokemon Online allows it (if it still does) doesn't mean it's legal. So the closest this set can get to being legal is having Donphan at level 5 with endeavor.
 
It's possible on PO lol. Crap you're right. It has to be level 25.. It could still work. It still has only 80 HP with 0 IVs and 27 speed with negative nature.
 

Moo

Professor
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I'd call the first set Offensive Rapid Spin. Rapid Spin can be abused defensively as well as abusing Stealth Rock in the same set.

Donphan @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
Nature: Impish
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def or 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD (doesn't really matter)
Rapid Spin
Stealth Rock
Roar
Earthquake

IMO, this is a complete set. It's really all you need for a spinner of this sort.

In AC, you should mention it can use Rock Polish alongside very good coverage in STAB EQ, Stone Edge and priority Ice Shard. Some sort of Mamoswine-B. It can also abuse Knock Off to some extent.
That's pretty similar to the one there. And how is it offensive rapid spin if you're using max hp / def? But yeah, Roar should get a mention in additional comments.

What you could also mention, a kind of gimmick but highly effective when played and supported right.

Donphan @ Shell Bell
Level: 1
Trait: Sturdy
Nature: Brave
IVs: 0 HP / 31 Att / 0 Def / 0-31 SpA / 0 SpD / 0 Spe
EVs: 252 Atk
Endeavor
Ice Shard
Protect
Rapid Spin / Sandstorm / Toxic / Roar / Knock Off / Earthquake / filler

In the last slot you can pretty much use any move you like that doesnt boost its stats other than attack. It's really really deadly.

Don't laugh, test it.
Donphan evolves at lvl 25
 
That's pretty similar to the one there. And how is it offensive rapid spin if you're using max hp / def? But yeah, Roar should get a mention in additional comments.



Donphan evolves at lvl 25
Dude he has 252 HP / 252 Atk. I have 252 HP / 252 Def. I even call mine defensive. And how could Roar only get a mention in AC, it's a very good move in combination with Rapid Spin and Stealth Rock. It can grant you the win late-game and you have a Phazer that sets up rocks and spins them away at the same time.
 

Moo

Professor
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Dude he has 252 HP / 252 Atk. I have 252 HP / 252 Def. I even call mine defensive. And how could Roar only get a mention in AC, it's a very good move in combination with Rapid Spin and Stealth Rock. It can grant you the win late-game and you have a Phazer that sets up rocks and spins them away at the same time.
misread
 

FlareBlitz

Relaxed nature. Loves to eat.
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The Sturdy/Endeavor set could still work at level 25, if you reduce all the defensive IVs to 0. Do that and even the weakest attacks you're likely to run into ohko Donphan.

I would go with Knock Off in the last slot. Knock Off helps against Pokemon with Leftovers that switch in, and could get rid of evolite in a pinch.
 

SilentVerse

Into the New World
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Okay, I'll split Rapid Spin into two sets. I was going to put one EV spread into AC of the main Rapid Spin set, but I suppose they play differently enough to warrant two different sets. I'm not too keen on Lv 25 Sturdy abuse though, and it's OO at best imo.
 
[SET]
name: Offensive Rapid Spin
move 1: Rapid Spin
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Assurance
move 4: Ice Shard / Stone Edge
item: Leftovers
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def

Assurance sucks and is not needed. The slashes should look like this:

[SET]
name: Offensive Rapid Spin
move 1: Rapid Spin
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Stealth Rock / Ice Shard
move 4: Stone Edge / Ice Shard
item: Leftovers
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def

I'd personally never use Donphan without Stealth Rock but this way of slashing is far more accurate.
 

breh

強いだね
the problem with level 25 sturdy abuse is that it doesn't have low hp. It's not a question of its defenses being weak enough but of its hp being too high.

The reason Aron works with Sturdy is that it can fully recover its health with shell bell; it only has to do 176 (11 (iirc is its HP-1) * 16)damage to get full hp back, which is literally below the minimum HP of even Dugtrio. Donphan, on the other hand, has to use endeavor on something with 1264 (79*16) hitpoints to get full health again. Essentially, that's never going to happen.

Don't use donphan for endeavor. It's worse than Swinub (which is at least immune to hail). And we all know how good that is. TBH I doubt whether or not it's even mentionable in OO.
 
On CB Assurance is even more terrible and I'd rather use Ice Shard or Toxic in that slot.........I'd also not use CB Donphan unless it was to lure and fuck bulky Ghosts up so you can spin.

It should look like:


[SET]
name: Choice Band
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Stone Edge / Head Smash
move 3: Ice Shard / Toxic
move 4: Rapid Spin
item: Choice Band
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def

(yea you also listed Leftovers as the item)
 

Oglemi

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Agreeing with everything Heysup said.

Honestly I would slash Head Smash before Stone Edge on the CB set since it's biggest perk over the other two is just how fucking hard it hits, and to me, if you're not going all out you might as well be running something else. The other QCers can weigh in here though.

And as a side note, I've never tried it, but has anybody tried a 252 HP / 252 SpD spread like what Hippowdon used to run last gen? I have no idea how it would fare and I'm simply theorymonning, but it could be interesting. Being able to tank Nidoking hits, and buffer Calm Mind boosted attacks from Espeon could never hurt.

Outside of that and with Heysup's changes



QC 1/3
 
And as a side note, I've never tried it, but has anybody tried a 252 HP / 252 SpD spread like what Hippowdon used to run last gen? I have no idea how it would fare and I'm simply theorymonning, but it could be interesting. Being able to tank Nidoking hits, and buffer Calm Mind boosted attacks from Espeon could never hurt.
I've used that spread but I don't like the inability to take hits from Rhyperior and Staraptor in addition to random attackers like Heracross. The thing with most special attacks is that you still get 2HKOed by most of them and you survive them via Sturdy otherwise.
 
  • Head Smash > Stone Edge always. It always KOs offensive Mismagius and sometimes KOs 252/0 Mismagius after rocks. It's also as strong as Donphan's STAB EQ, so it'll do heavy damage to almost everything that would normally like to come in on EQ.
  • Offensive Rapid Spin should be the first set. It's the most common and effective set by far.
  • Foresight instead of Odor Sleuth just for posterity. It's that way everywhere else, no need to confuse anybody.
  • I think Ice Shard is a terrible move on Donphan that shouldn't be used under any circumstances. It's hilariously weak, only doing relevant damage to mons that are 4x weak to ice. For some reason it's pretty common though, so if other QCers want it in the analysis I'll defer to them.

Make the changes and consider this QC APPROVED 2/3
 
I really want to see Knock Off included in AC of Defensive Donphan or slashed instead of Odor Sleuth. Knock Off is ridiculously effective on a defensive Pokemon like Donphan. It attracts bulky Waters, Chansey, etc, and none of them appreciate losing their Leftovers or Eviolite. Common Ghost-type switch ins such as Spiritomb or, more importantly, Dusclops, don't like losing their Leftovers or Eviolite, either. By effectively crippling the switch-in, Donphan has made it easier for other members of your team to handle them. It is more useful overall and will allow you to eventually get that spin off.

edit: I apologize for bumping this but Donphan is a really important UU Pokemon.
 
For the first set, mention an alternative spread of 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Def w/Adamant. It tanks physical hits better than the current spread (since Donphan has shit for Special Defense anyway) I believe it is also a leftovers number iirc
 

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