Oddball tiers discussion

[Mr_br_kill]

Tired of the constant weather wars in ou? Can't handle the weight loss program reject Chansey in uu? Has Arceus normal swept yet an other "perfect" uber team? Are you *gasp* starting to get bored with pokemon? Then there is only one solution, try out some more oddball tiers.

There are 3 types of oddball tiers: competitive, Variation, and For Fun

Competitive are metagames that are supported by Smogon, but are currently unpopular and not played as much as other tiers

Competitive

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Past gens
Non vgc Doubles
Tripples
Rotation
NU (when it exists)
BL
Challenge cup and all the variations
Street pokemon
Mono type

Variation is a standard tier which has been slightly changed to change the meta game, for example banning or unbanning a pokemon.

Variation

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Absent deity (ubers without Arceus)
Clear Skys (weatherless ou)
Who needs team preview? (ou without team preview)
Unsupspected Metagame (suspectless ou)
Itemless Metagame

For fun Metagames are big changes to the standard metagames. A fully developed one is completely different than the meta it was baised on. My favorite type of oddball Metagame.

For Fun

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Fail cup (only pokemon who can't learn tms. Wobbafett and smeargle are banned)
Metronome
Middle tier (only second tier of 3 stage evolution chains are legal)
Got Arceus? (only arceus)
UnSTAB Metagame (no STABs)
Adherence (all pokemon must hold choice items)
Peace (no moves that do damage. Taut and magic guard are also banned)
VGC 2011 ubers (all the banned released pokemon from vgc 2011 are allowed)

If you have any good Variations or For Funs please post and describe them here and if there good enough, I'll edit them in.

So discuss these exotic metagames, and try them out.

 

[Jaetheho]

you spelled discussion wrong

 

[Stratos]

i assume you mean 2010 VGC ubers, 2011 is HG/SS

 

[Abacus]

BL isn't a tier. The reason rotation doesn't get much play is the lack of simulator support. I'm not sure if triples is implemented either.

Just so you know, any tier that starts out "for fun" will become competitive if enough people play it.

That said, I've had fun playing other people using smeargles only

 

[Ilios]

BL isn't a tier.

Didn't Ubers develop from being an OU banlist to a tier with its own metagame? BL may be viable as a tier too.

 

[BTzz]

Gen exclusive tiers. Gen 1 tier=only gen1 Pokemon, Gen 2 Tier=only Gen 2 Pokemon etc.

 

[Virizion]

What, no Metronome battles under "For Fun"? That's surprising.

 

[breh]

i assume you mean 2010 VGC ubers, 2011 is HG/SS

*looks at year*

2011 is this year. AKA b/w.

in any case, add on to that the suspected vgc 2012, aka vgc 2010 with the pokemon of gen 5 added in (kyurem/zekrom/reshiram are restricted, the rest is allowed in any case). you can use 2 restricted pokes in a bring 6 choose 4 battle with another person.

 

[Togelover]

What, no Metronome battles under "For Fun"? That's surprising.

Oh god, I love Metronome battles~

 

[Stratos]

*looks at year*

2011 is this year. AKA b/w.

in any case, add on to that the suspected vgc 2012, aka vgc 2010 with the pokemon of gen 5 added in (kyurem/zekrom/reshiram are restricted, the rest is allowed in any case). you can use 2 restricted pokes in a bring 6 choose 4 battle with another person.

but he said battling with the banlists. aka non-bw. aka hgss

 

[Jaetheho]

discussion... without a T

 

[Mr_br_kill]

VGC 2011 is the current VGC, with only the 5 gen pokes allowed (with a few bans). VGC 2011 ubers, is all the banned pokes unbanned. It can't be called VGC 2012 because for all we know it could be 6 vs 6 singles

 

[Chameleon]

Maybe you should add Middle Cup. If you haven't heard of it, it's a tier where only the middle evolutions of three-stage pokemon are around, kind of like the missing link between LC and the other tiers. It enjoyed brief popularity (or infamy) in its debut on the forums in fourth gen, but died out.

I never played Middle Cup, but it seems interesting and would definitely be different with the introduction of eviolite.

 

[Prankster]

All choiced matches are called Adherence, in the Adherence tier.
BTW I love metronome battles. They are Awesome.

 

[Pika25]

Is Magic Guard Ability banned in Peace? (Yes I am talking to you Reuniclus and co)

 

[Virizion]

Uh, I have to ask··· Are Smeargle/Wobby banned in "standard" Fail Cup? Neither can (directly) learn TM's..

 

[TickingSeedotBomb]

peace battles? Seems like Reuniclus would break that :p

 

[melvni]

peace battles? Seems like Reuniclus would break that :p

Once it's released, wouldn't Ingrain + Soundproof + Substitute Abomasnow be just as bad? You can't phaze it, it's immune to Perish Song, and it can't get hit with status. Plus it has some combination of hail/toxic/swagger/leech seed to actually hurt things. I'm not sure if curse hits through subs, but that and Sandstorm would seem the only ways to maybe kill it once it got set up.

 

[Pocket]

You forgot that NU doesn't exist for BW yet. We do have RU, though.

 

[Mr_br_kill]

For fail cup smeargle and wobbafett are both banned, but wynaut is usable.

Yes magic guard is banned, I forgot about it in peace.

Ingrain soudproof abamasnow isn't invincible. Weak to sandstorm and rocks, takes spikes and, most importantly, toxic spikes. Also fast thearts like gengar can toxic before the sub.

Edit: added middle cup, clarified ban lists and fixed some names in op

 

[NijaSkills]

Wouldn't sub in general be absurdly broken in Peace? If you get one up without getting statused beforehand, they're pretty much screwed. If Murkrow gets up a sub, it can Phase everything with a higher than normal priority whirlwind (so it can't be phased itself), and never be killed, and it can trap you into your own perish song if you try that. It's unbeatable unless something with Magic Mirror comes in, which, on the topic of that, would be unbeatably broken itself, as literally NOTHING except perish song can hit it.

 

[Celestavian]

Dream World isn't even a For Fun metagame? I suppose it sorta counts as OU, and still has weather, but it's definitely distinct.

 

[melvni]

Ingrain soudproof abamasnow isn't invincible. Weak to sandstorm and rocks, takes spikes and, most importantly, toxic spikes. Also fast thearts like gengar can toxic before the sub.

Ingrain restores hp by 1/16, while sandstorm lowers it by 1/16 so it's a net loss of zero (I totally didn't just suggest Sandstorm as a good way to kill it. My previous post (and the cake) is a lie.). With leech seed (and leftovers if that's allowed) you're actually gaining health still. Spikes and Stealth Rock damage won't matter once you're in and can't be forced out by Whirlwind (or Roar at all since you're immune). Fast Status/Toxic Spikes would seem the biggest problem, but that could be solved through devoting at least part of the rest of your team to Safeguard users, or giving Abomasnow Rest or a lum berry if Safeguard is banned (though Rest that leaves one "damaging" move, and perhaps decreases the chance of Abomasnow beating everything). Ghost Curse and PP Stall would seem the only tactics for consistently beating it. I could be very wrong though, since I haven't really heard of this tier before and this was just the first thing that jumped out at me.

Wouldn't sub in general be absurdly broken in Peace? If you get one up without getting statused beforehand, they're pretty much screwed. If Murkrow gets up a sub, it can Phase everything with a higher than normal priority whirlwind (so it can't be phased itself), and never be killed, and it can trap you into your own perish song if you try that. It's unbeatable unless something with Magic Mirror comes in, which, on the topic of that, would be unbeatably broken itself, as literally NOTHING except perish song can hit it.

Also, Sandstorm/Hail (if leftovers isn't allowed, I could use some clarification on this point) and Ghost Curse.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

In 4th gen a played on a server that hosted a NFE ladder. It was pretty interesting, most good pokemon where banned though (Dusckops, Rhydon, Munchlax, ect). It became really hyper offensive as the only decent walls where Togetic, Wailmer, and Mantike.

I can't imagine how it is now though, it must be the complete opposite because of evolite, with every battle becoming a stall war.

 

[zyrefredric]

First time I ever hear of Peace battles. Has anyone here ever played it? Sounds so interesting!

btw, the OP talks about too many things. Once enough people discuss about a particular "oddball" tier, maybe individual threads can be made?