Normal Arceus

[trickroom]

Giratina is as close as a counter you get for Extremekiller. Also if Arceus drops Life Orb for Silk Scarf, +2 Shadow Claw doesn't 2HKO Giratina usually.

Missing Will-O-Wisp sucks but at least you can Dragon Tail it out if you don't want to risk that 25%. Roar works to temporary stop it. Scarf Terrakion doesn't even OHKO Arceus. Non Toxic Skarmory loses if Arceus has Recover or fire-type attack, rare but they still exist.

 

[Fiction.]

However, it diminishes Arceus's ability to actually switch in on physical hits. If Ice Beam is being used, it is recommended to switch Return to Judgment and run an Impish (or Timid) nature so as to not gimp its power.

Shouldn't the bolded part be "a Bold (or Timid) nature" ?

 

[shrang]

Just interested, has Specs Normal Arceus been tested? I've used it about twice at the moment, and while it hasn't been spectacular, it sounds okay in theory, so far. Basically, the aim is to lure out you Extremekiller counters and deal a lot of damage to them, paving the way for something else like Rayquaza to sweep. For example, Specs Judgement easily 2HKOs Groudon and Lugia after Stealth Rock damage, while Fire Blast roasts the hell out of Skarmory (or Thunder if you're using Rain). Giratina is a bit more difficult to get rid of, since IIRC Shadow Ball doesn't 2HKO without prior damage, but you can always Trick it. Here:

name: Choice Specs
move 1: Judgement
move 2: Fire Blast / Thunder
move 3: Shadow Ball
move 4: Trick
item: Choice Specs
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
nature: Modest

Obviously, this needs a lot more polishing up, but something to think about, I suppose.

 

[ZetoTarken]

Ice Beam 2hkos Giratina without hazards as well as doing more damage than a Neutral Judgement, having a high chance to straight up 1hko Groudon after spikes as well as having a chance to 2hko Lugia without SR...

 

[Gates]

So I've always felt that Dragon Claw is a better attack for Extremekiller Arceus than Shadow Claw since it does more damage and the type coverage lost is minimal. It still hits Lati@s and Giratina for super-effective damage, Mewtwo and other psychics die to Extremespeed, and ghost types die to Dragon Claw or Earthquake since they're usually so frail (Dragon Claw Arceus has trouble with bulky ones like Jellicent but those are few and far between in Ubers). The only thing you really lose damage against by running it is against Ghost Arceus, who you will always kill first if it hasn't boosted yet and you haven't taken more than 30-40% recoil damage from Life Orb (+2 EQ is a clean 2HKO with LO and a 2HKO after entry hazards with Silk Scarf), and you will almost always lose to anyway if you haven't boosted (I mean I guess if you run Shadow Force you might have a chance, but...). You also technically lose coverage against Shedinja and Bronzong, but those aren't really that significant.

In the end, going with Dragon Claw over Shadow Claw makes you lose a small amount of coverage for more power against very specific threats, which I think is pretty significant and worth mentioning.

Other than that, great analysis. Very thorough.

 

[sammao]

So I've always felt that Dragon Claw is a better attack for Extremekiller Arceus than Shadow Claw since it does more damage and the type coverage lost is minimal. It still hits Lati@s and Giratina for super-effective damage, Mewtwo and other psychics die to Extremespeed, and ghost types die to Dragon Claw or Earthquake since they're usually so frail (Dragon Claw Arceus has trouble with bulky ones like Jellicent but those are few and far between in Ubers). The only thing you really lose damage against by running it is against Ghost Arceus, who you will always kill first if it hasn't boosted yet and you haven't taken more than 30-40% recoil damage from Life Orb (+2 EQ is a clean 2HKO with LO and a 2HKO after entry hazards with Silk Scarf), and you will almost always lose to anyway if you haven't boosted (I mean I guess if you run Shadow Force you might have a chance, but...). You also technically lose coverage against Shedinja and Bronzong, but those aren't really that significant.

In the end, going with Dragon Claw over Shadow Claw makes you lose a small amount of coverage for more power against very specific threats, which I think is pretty significant and worth mentioning.

Other than that, great analysis. Very thorough.

You forgot about Lugia (and by extension, any bulky psychic type that is not weak to Dragon Claw, such as Cresselia, Bronzong, Deoxys-D, and Uxie, they are rare but still). Shawdow Claw hit Lugia harder assuming life Orb, and even if you hold Silk Scarf (which makes ES hit similar damage as Shawdow Claw), you still need it to preserve ES pp. Since the Latias, Latios and Mewtwo are OHKO by ES anyway,Dragon Claw is only useful for a slightly stronger hit on Giratina. And so Shawdow Claw is more useful overall.

 

[Banedon]

<p>Despite the sheer threat presence this set has, it can useless against most other things still be stopped by most dedicated physical walls - other Arceus, Lugia, Skarmory, and Giratina. Common Choice Scarf carriers that resist ExtremeSpeed, such as Terrakion, Dialga, and Heatran, can take a hit from Arceus and severely damage or fell it with Close Combat, Draco Meteor, or Fire Blast respectively. Wobbuffet can easily trap and dispatch Choice Scarf users thanks to its ability, Shadow Tag. It can also utilize Encore to buy Arceus a much-needed turn to use Swords Dance safely. Pairing a Tickle-wielding Wobbuffet with a Pursuit user such as Scizor also makes for a quick way to eliminate Lugia. Powerful special attackers such as Kyogre and Heatran can deal with most physically defensive Arceus. Giratina, Lugia, and Skarmory are also easily fried by Zekrom and Reshiram's STAB Electric- and Fire-type attacks, respectively. The latter, however, will need sunlight support to reliably take on Lugia.</p>

Needs a fix ...

 

[Lat1as]

Has anyone thought of a mixed set? I've tested this out and it works great against common Arceus counters such as Giratina, Groudon, and Ferrothorn
It would look something like
Arceus @ Life orb
-Draco Meteor
-Fire Blast
-Grass Knot
-Extreme Speed

Not too sure about the ev spreads, but maybe 252 sp atk and speed?

 

[Jibaku]

- First set should have 44 more Speed EVs to outrun Rayquaza. Alternatively, don't run much Speed at all. +Speed Giratina-O/Dialga/Lucario are quite rare nowadays.

- Jolly should be mentioned somewhere for cracking down on Terrakion and several unsuspecting Steelcei/Ghostcei

- Brick Break should go on the main set to take down Ferrothorn, while still hitting Dialga and Heatran super effectively. Move Overheat to AC - too many Dialga around and Skarmory/Ferrothorn (kinda) still walls it in the rain.

- Conkeldurr 9.9

AF Approved 1/3

 

[bojangles]

AF APPROVED 2/3

 

[trickroom]

I think Brick Break deserves to be on the Extremekiller too as it also takes out Chansey at +2 if you are using Life Orb. It isn't strong enough to take out Dialga though.

Conkedlurr sucks in Ubers, and oh Cresselia can sort of wall you in the sun with Reflect, Moonlight and Toxic. Rare, but Cresselia still exists! Bronzong beats you too.

AF APPROVED 3/3

 

[Fireburn]

Made suggested changes, though left Bronzong off as it cannot beat Arceus without Toxic.

This is ready for upload.

 

[trickroom]

Moved Overheat to AC and shifted Brick Break to the main set.

Uploaded.