Magmortar (Analysis) [QC 3 / 3]


Magmortar

chip-chip-chip-chippin away at this

[OVERVIEW]
<p>The Blast Pokemon is once again back for another round of UU. Arceus has chosen to give Magmortar the proper stats and movepool to virtually 2HKO the entire metagame. With access to Thunderbolt and a base 125 Special Attack stat, Magmortar is able to get past the bulky waters that his Fire-type brethren loathe. Arceus gave Magmortar these gifts at a price however, Magmortar is cursed with a poor defensive typing that leaves him both lacking resistances and suffering from weaknesses to common attacking types. Since Magmortar is weak to rock, Stealth Rock chips off 25% of his HP each time he switches in. On top of this all Magmortar only has an average Speed Stat which leaves him revenge killed by faster Pokemon. Despite these shortcomings when Magmortar is around, you'll want to make sure those big cannons of his aren't pointed at you.</p>

[SET]
name: Mixed Attacker
move 1: Fire Blast
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Ice
move 4: Cross Chop
item: Life Orb
nature: Naughty
evs: 64 HP / 164 Atk / 252 SpA / 28 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This generation, Magmortar's best option is to run a mixed attacking set. This set allows Magmortar to bypass the number one threat to any Special Attacker, Chansey
  • This set allows Magmortar to beat both physical and special walls alike
  • Despite Cross Chop not doing as much to Chansey due to the introduction of Eviolite, it still does enough to pick Chansey off late game
  • Naughty and 164 Atk evs allows Magmortar to 2HKO Chansey after Rocks
  • Max SpA to help Fire Blast hit as hard as possible
  • 28 Spe evs allow Magmortar to outrun min Spe Suicune and hit it with TBolt
  • Fire Blast plus the coverage moves provided allow Magmortar to 2HKO virtually the entire metagame

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
  • Expert Belt can be used to feign a Choice Item
  • Magmortar can help open up holes for teammates such as Rock Polish Rhyperior to sweep.
  • Grass Types resist Ground and Water
  • Max Speed with Naive nature can be used to outrun base 80's

[SET]
name: Choice
move 1: Fire Blast / Overheat
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Focus Blast
move 4: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Ice
item: Choice Scarf / Choice Specs
nature: Modest / Timid
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>When equipped with a Choice Scarf Magmortar is a potent revenge killer, whereas when equipped with Choice Specs, it hits extremely hard. Fire Blast is Magmortar's main STAB move when equipped with a Choice Scarf, as it allows Magmortar to clean up weakened teams late game. When using Choice Specs, Overheat is preferred for maximum damage output. Thunderbolt deals with the many Water-type pokemon who resist Magmortar's Fire-type STAB. Focus Blast allows Magmortar to hit Chansey, Snorlax, and Houndoom super-effectively. With Choice Specs equipped Magmortar 2HKOs Snorlax with Focus Blast, whereas with Scarf, Houndoom is OHKOed. Pokemon who would be able to handle the other moves on this set are dealt with by appropriate Hidden Power types. Hidden Power Grass allows Magmortar to beat Gastrodon, Quaqsire, and Rhyperior. Whereas, Hidden Power Ice lets Magmortar defeat Altaria and Flygon.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The given nature and evs allow Magmortar to outspeed max Speed Timid base 130's like Jolteon and Aerodactyl when wielding a Choice Scarf. After Stealth Rocks, Magmortar is able to OHKO them both with Overheat and Thunderbolt respectively. Timid can also be used to outspeed +1 base 80's such as Mamoswine. Although Focus Blast helps in taking down Chansey, strong Fighting-types such as Heracross are great partners.</p>


[Other Options]
<p>Magmortar has a few other options that it can employ in a set. Magmortar can utilize Belly Drum to boost its sub-par Attack to high levels. Although, with Salac Berry as of yet, unreleased, Magmortar is easily outsped and revenge-killed. Magmortar has a wide Physical movepool to use. A few notable options include Earthquake, Thunderpunch, Firepunch, Flare Blitz, and Rock Slide. A set utilizing Flame Charge can be used to remedy Magmortar's low Speed. Magmortar has access to Taunt, but he is better off attacking. Magmortar can use a set with Substitute and Focus Punch to some success.</p>

[CHECKS AND COUNTERS]
<p>Chansey is a hard counter to any set without Cross Chop, taking very little from all of Magmortar's attacks, while crippling him with Thunder Wave. Milotic has enough bulk to survive one Thunderbolt and can threaten Magmortar out with Scald. Azumarill can come in on any Fire-type attack and threaten Magmortar out with Aqua Jet. Lanturn resists Magmortar's Fire-type STAB and is immune to Thunderbolt and as such is a solid check to Magmortar. Regirock's impressive Special bulk in the sand allows it to tank Mamortar's hits. Altaria is a great counter to any set lacking Hidden Power Ice. Rhyperior can can tank Cross Chops, and is unthreatened by any move other than Hidden Power Grass.</p>
 

JockeMS

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Mixed Wallbreaker worked last gen, at least for me. Don't know this gen, but it could work.
 
I would definitely give Cross-Chop a mention somewhere, because Magmortar's abiliy to threaten Chansey and Bulky waters is what set's him apart (and, unline Mixtini, doesn't have to rely on V-create to eliminate Chansey). A mixed set would be nice, or maybe add a Sub-Punch set, which can be fairly effective at breaking down opponent's teams.
 
I would definitely give Cross-Chop a mention somewhere, because Magmortar's abiliy to threaten Chansey and Bulky waters is what set's him apart (and, unline Mixtini, doesn't have to rely on V-create to eliminate Chansey). A mixed set would be nice, or maybe add a Sub-Punch set, which can be fairly effective at breaking down opponent's teams.
the only problem with using cross chop to get Chansey was its ability to take it out after a Fire Blast last gen (or something like that 2hko perhaps?). But with the introduction of Eviolite this gen its gonna take alot more attack investment to be able to do that. I'm thinking of ways to get around it. But most definitely it will be mentioned in at least other options
 
44 Attack Magmortar 2HKOs 252/252+ Chansey. Even if Magmortar gets T-waved or Toxiced, that's a price I'm willing to pay to remove it from the game. As a result, Magmortar can pair well with another special sweeper.
 
44 Attack Magmortar 2HKOs 252/252+ Chansey. Even if Magmortar gets T-waved or Toxiced, that's a price I'm willing to pay to remove it from the game. As a result, Magmortar can pair well with another special sweeper.
You forgot to include the Eviolite in your calculations.
 
Okay Just ran some calcs and even Adamant Max Attack Cross Chop fails to 2HKO Chansey.

However, 252 Attack naive Focus Punch does so I'll do some tinkering with the Ev's to get the most efficiency. So SubPunch gets the nod.
 
You forgot to include the Eviolite in your calculations.
Really?

I used: http://masara.byethost15.com/SilverlightDmgCalcTestPage.html, so I guess the Eviolite function isn't working. Even though, I know from experience that it can 2HKO 252/0 Chansey after rocks.

Edit: Yeah, just read through the battle logs, and it appears my memory was deceiving me lol: I had 3 layers of spikes and SR one time. Another time I had 2 layer of Spikes, SR and a bit of residual damage on the Chansey. So, yeah, it wasn't as awesome as I remembered. I feel really dumb now lol. I tend to use a Sub-Punch set more though, in UU at least, so that's why I hadn't really noticed the power drop.
 

Honko

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Make sure to mention Expert Belt. Magmortar is one of the best there is at bluffing a Choice item.
 

PK Gaming

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Oy, why is the main set a Choiced set >_<

name: Mixed Attacker
move 1: Fire Blast
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Ice
move 4: Cross Chop
item: Life Orb
nature: Rash / Naive
ability: Flame Body
evs: 16 Atk / 252 SpA / 240 Spe

This set was incredible in gen IV, I demand that it becomes the #1 set ASAP. Yes, Cross Chop isn't doing nearly enough damage to Chansey with evolite, but its definitely dealing less than 20% with Fire Blast and better than using Focus Blast.

  • I don't like Choiced Magmortar at all, but you can keep it for now.
  • You need to specific on the SubPunch set. What does a Naive nature and max speed allow you to outspeed specifically?
Once the changes are made, i'll approve this.
 

JockeMS

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Ah, there it is. That's the set I was talking about. It's awesome and has helped me alot in Gen IV.
 

breh

強いだね
those evs seem really... awkward.

I'm not sure if this is optimal, but I feel that it would not be a bad idea to run a spread of 72 HP / 164 Atk / 252 SpA / 20 Spe Naughty. As far as I glean, those speed evs outspeed max milotic; this is pretty stupid now since they never run max in this gen. Hell, barely anything around mag's speed tier runs max speed; as far as I can find, the only thing that commonly does is mamoswine (which generally runs scarf anyway) and Feraligatr (for which you are setup fodder anyway; you don't OHKO with T-bolt while it gets a DD up and tries to sweep).

Basically, this spread does the following:

164 Attack allows a 2HKO on 252/252+ eviolite chansey with Cross Chop with SR support. Predict it on the switch and then watch your opponent recoil in horror as they realize that you 2HKO them.
252 SpA is just SpA
20 Spe outspeeds min Suicune
72 EVs are leftover and thus thrown into HP for bulk.

I admit, I'm impressed by the damage output that CC has. Pity about that accuracy but still.

if you want, you can throw some of that HP in speed to outspeen min Deo-D but base 100s are untouchable without taking heavily (app 80 EVs I think) from SpA.

EDIT: yeah honko is right.
 

Honko

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If you're outspeeding min Suicune, you might as well add 8 more EVs to beat min Rotom-A as well.
 

FlareBlitz

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I don't see how the subpunch set is viable. Focus Punch does 54% max to Chansey (assuming Leftovers and the given spread), after which it just spams Seismic Toss and kills you (since you can't sub/punch again). None of Magmortar's other counters care about Focus Punch either, at least any more than they would care about Cross Chop/Thunderbolt.

If you're running Naive on Magmortar you should probably run max speed, because it outruns neutral natured base 95s. Rash should definitely be the preferred nature though.

The choice set badly needs rapid spin support, so mention that. And also mention why someone would use it over Victini (higher special attack, lack of pursuit weakness, and...uh...yeah nothing else).
 

PK Gaming

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FlareBlitz is right, SubPunch should removed altogether and mentioned in AC.

64 HP / 164 Atk / 252 SpA / 28 Spe Naughty
Excellent spread, glad I thought of it (j/k) Make that the main spread and mention running max speed when using Naive nature.

Thanks for the spread Breludicolo!
 
FlareBlitz is right, SubPunch should removed altogether and mentioned in AC.



Excellent spread, glad I thought of it (j/k) Make that the main spread and mention running max speed when using Naive nature.

Thanks for the spread Breludicolo!
Wait, on which sets should that spread be run? all of them?
 
No reason to not run max speed on the choice set. Speed tieing with random stuff will help a lot more than 1 point of defense. No need to specify the ability either, Magmortar only has one.

QC APPROVED 2/3
 

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