Earth, Air, Fire, Water: a B/W RMT

[shinyskarmory]

When I came on to Smogon for the first time, I was amazed by the amount of attention to detail that I saw here. I read up on EV training, movesets, and pokemon that I used often. And, right then, everything changed. Within a week or two. I had a few pokemon EV trained and ready to beat down my friends, in a group where the only real rules were no legendaries and no Pokesav or Action Replay. Since they never really got into EV training, I just kept crushing them. It sucked all the fun out of our group.

I decided I wanted more, so I got Pokemon Online, which I didn't end up playing much until I got a Smogon account earlier in the year. Before I joined Smogon, I fought a lot of battles against a small group of friends. We would just show up with our DS'es and fight each other. Pokesav and Action Replay were forbidden, legendaries were banned, and ev training was non-existent. In this kind of metagame, I developed a strategy that kept me doing well: Stay flexible, use prediction, and have pokemon that can take hits and strike back harder. This playstyle was what I designed my team around.

At A Glance

Hide

Team Building Process

Hide

I started the process with one of the mons that had been so successful for me in the past: Swampert.

I decided that I wanted to build my team around the flexibility that saved me so many matches in my group. I threw a MixApe onto the team to give me some wallbreaking capability.

I had two solid, reliable pokemon on the team at this point. I wanted to complete my F/W/G core, so I added Celebi for its support capabilities and overall flexibility.

After this, for a while I was at a loss as to how to fill out my team. I decided to add a SpecsMence to give me some power on the special side of the spectrum.

At this point, I saw that I had nothing to really stall, if the time came where I needed to. I added a Skarmory to take hits and set up hazards.

Finally, since most of my pokemon did not have instant, non-leftovers recovery, I added Blissey to take special hits and pass Wish.
The Original Team

Thanks to some of the helpful rates, I am now playtesting different Blissey and Skarmory sets, and a mixed Dragonite in Salamence's slot.

The Team-In Depth

Hide

Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 44 HP / 212 Def / 252 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Roost
- Roar
- Drill Peck
This team doesn't really have a defined lead, but when I don't see a Heatran or Magic Bounce lead, I send in Skarmory. Thanks to Sturdy, when I lead with him, I can always get rocks up. Roost is to increase his survivability, Roar allows him to hazard shuffle and phaze, and Drill Peck ensures he isn't shut down by Taunt without giving him the recoil of Brave Bird.

I've gone through several iterations of this Skarmory. At first, he didn't carry hazards or Roar, but instead used Toxic, Protect, and Roost to stall. Then, he was a speedy Taunter, preventing setup and sometimes outright forcing out other Skarmory and Blissey. Currently, I use this set, but I'm still looking for an even better one for what I do.

Synergy (my go-tos, from back to right):
Fire: Swampert->Salamence->Infernape
Electric: Swampert->Celebi->Blissey
Special Attacks:Blissey->Celebi->Swampert

Infernape (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature (+Spd, -SpD)
- Overheat
- Close Combat
- Mach Punch
- U-turn
Ah, good old MixApe. I chose this set to complement Swampert, who comes later in the list. Overheat is for a ridiculously powerful STAB move, and the SpA drop is moot because I'll use Overheat and then either U-Turn out or use Close Combat and Mach Punch to lay some hurt on the switch-in.

This set and the SpecsMence have flipflopped a few times. I used to run MixMence and NPApe, but now Salamence is my hard hitter on the special side, and Infernape is my wallbreaker. Again, any suggestions are appreciated.
Synergy:
Water: Skarmory/Blissey->Celebi->Swampert
Ground: Salamence->Skarmory->Swampert
Flying (lol): Skarmory->Swampert
Psychic (also lol): Blissey->Celebi->Swampert

Salamence (F) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power [Electric]
This is the SpecsMence I came up with after viewing the ridiculously large movepool that Salamence has. With Draco Meteor and Flamethrower, I have perfect neutral coverage on everything except bulky waters. HP Electric covers the waters that Flamethrower and Draco Meteor can't hit hard, and Hydro Pump is there for even more ridiculous SE coverage.

As stated in Infernape's section above, I used to run a MixMence, but now I run the current SpecsMence. I was considering running Salamence with Wish and changing Blissey to a cleric to cure the status that plagues my team, but that switch comes with a huge loss of power.

EDIT: Now playtesting Dragonite and Latios (not at the same time) to see how they work with the team.
Synergy:
Ice: Blissey->Swampert->Infernape
Rock: Swampert->Celebi->Skarmory
Dragon->Skarmory/Blissey->Swampert->Desperation

Finley (Swampert) (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Superpower
- Earthquake
- Waterfall
- Ice Punch
The star of the show. CB Swampert packs a lot of punch, and with the listed EVs, he packs a lot of bulk to go along with it. Earthquake and Waterfall give me reliable STAB. Superpower is a good way to hit Balloon Excadrill and Heatran, especially on the switch. Ice Punch gives me OHKOs on Salamence, Hydreigon, and Dragonite without Multiscale, as well as keeping grass types out of my hair.

I've previously ran Stealth Rock over Superpower, and then just switched out after using it. I've also used Rock Slide, to give me pseudo- EdgeQuake coverage and a small flinch chance. The other three moves have been mainstays on this set.
Synergy:
Grass: Salamence->Skarmory->Infernape

Celebi @ Life Orb
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 232 HP / 240 SAtk / 36 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Thunder Wave
- Leaf Storm
- Earth Power
- Recover
The traditional Tinkerbell set from 4th Gen, with one change. I replaced HP fire with Earth Power to help me hit Excadrill, Heatran, and Terakion. Thunder Wave is a good way to spread status around, Leaf Storm is powerful STAB, and Recover helps to keep it alive with Life Orb recoil, Sandstorm, and attack damage every turn.

Celebi has been a mixed bag in terms of performance. I've run this set since the first battle with this team, and it hasn't been as effective as I expected. I am considering replacing Celebi with another supporting Grass type, perhaps a Prankster Whimsicott.
Synergy:
Fire: Swampert->Salamence->Blissey
Bug: Skarmory->Salamence->Infernape
Ice: Skarmory->Swampert->Infernape
Flying (lol): Skarmory->Swampert->Salamence
Dark: Skarmory/Blissey->Infernape->Desperation
Ghost: Blissey->Skarmory->Swampert
Poison: Skarmory->Swampert->Salamence

Ignorance (Blissey) (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Toxic
- Wish
- Seismic Toss
- Protect
Blissey is the other half of my SkarmBliss core. It soaks up special attacks like a sponge soaking up water, and it passes Wish to Infernape, Salamence, and Swampert. Unfortunately, it hasn't been as effective in its stalling as I would have hoped, but it does do its other job effectively.

I was considering replacing Blissey for another special wall, but I had no idea of another wall that could keep the current synergy going. I mentioned earlier that I was considering converting Blissey to a cleric; this is also still on my mind.
Synergy:
Fighting: Skarmory->Salamence->Celebi
Physical: Skarmory->Salamence->Swampert

Final Words
This team did fairly well for me on the PO server while Smogon's server was down, but when I started playing on Smogon's server after it returned, I started losing a lot more. Since the competition is stronger on Smogon's server, I need some help updating the team.

Thanks in advance for all the advice and rates.

​

 

[shinyskarmory]

Offensive Threats

Aerodactyl -Swampert can take all of its attacks and OHKO with Ice Punch.

Breloom -Switch in fodder to take the Spore, and then force it out with Salamence or Infernape. A threat worth considering.

Conkeldurr -Switch in Skarmory and use either Drill Peck or Roar.

Darmanitan -Swampert can take its attacks and kill it with STAB, or Salamence can hit hard with a Hydro Pump.

Deoxys-S -Pfff.

Dragonite -Salamence smashes the hell out of it with Draco Meteor, and Swampert does the same with Ice Punch.

Empoleon -Swampert kills it with EQ or Superpower, Infernape CCs it in the face, and Celebi Leaf Storms.

Espeon -Pfff.Not a real threat unless it Magic Bounces a status move or SR.

Excadrill -Swampert handles him with Superpower on a balloon, and EQ on the ground.

Gengar -Haven't seen it much, so I'll have to settle for outspeeding it.

Gyarados - Salamence's HP Electric or a few Ice Punches from Swampert handles it fine.

Haxorus -Once again, Swampert or Salamence.

Heatran -Swampert hits it with EQ, Superpower, or Waterfall; Infernape can CC or Mach Punch.

Heracross -Overheat from Infernape, Flamethrower from Salamence, or even Drill Peck from Skarmory will handle it fine.

Hydreigon -A problem. Hits everything in my party hard. Draco Meteor or Close Combat will do a number, so long as I can get their users in unscathed.

Infernape -Salamence takes its attacks and hits back harder with Hydro Pump. Swampert has Earthquake and Waterfall.

Jirachi -Not a threat. Everything except Skarmory and Blissey can kill it.

Jolteon -Earthquake wins easy, and anything else hits it hard too.

Kingdra -Outside the rain, easy. With rain, it's a pain to kill.

Kyurem -Infernape handles him easy. CC or Overheat deal massive damage. Swampert has Superpower, but if they can't switch in, I have problems.

Landorus -Swampert hits hard with Ice Punch, but if it carries Grass Knot or HP Grass, then too late.

Latios -needs to go back to ubers. I can't stop.

Lilligant -Salamence or Infernape.

Lucario -Infernape, Salamence, or Swampert.

Machamp -Swampert and Salamence can take his attacks and hit him back harder.

Magnezone -Useless, unless he traps Skarmory.

Mamoswine -Swampert and Infernape can handle it. Could be a problem if one is gone, though.

Metagross -Any of my three sweepers can handle it.

Mienshao -Not a problem.

Reuniclus -CM/Recover variants are almost impossible for me to stop.

Roserade -Salamence or Infernape destroy it.

Salamence -No boosts, I can beat it. If it gets a DD up, switch in Skarmory and pray.

Sawsbuck -What? People use Sawsbuck in OU?

Scizor -Infernape forces a switch.

Scrafty-Difficult to stop if it gets a boost.

Shaymin -Salamence destroys non HP ice variants, Infernape destroys everything else.

Sigilyph -Once again, who uses Sigilyph?

Smeargle - Same as Breloom. Let it spore my current most useless mon and send in something else to kill it.

Starmie - A legitimate threat. Beats Salamence and Infernape, but Swampert can handle it he can get in unscathed.

Terakion -Infernape outspeeds and OHKOs.

Thundurus -Ice punch from Swampert. If swampert is dead, problem.

Tornadus -Ice Punch or Waterfall.

Tyranitar -Infernape.

Venusaur -Infernape and Salamence

Victini -Swampert takes the V-Create and OHKOs with EQ. Salamence uses Hydro Pump.

Virizion - Infernape uses Overheat, Salamence uses Flamethrower.

Volcarona -Salamence before it boosts, Swampert after.

Weavile -Infernape.

Zoroark -While it's transformed, hit it with the hardest attack of whatever I have out.

Defensive Threats

Blissey -Infernape or Swampert

Bronzong -Infernape or Swampert

Celebi -Salamence or Infernape

Chansey -Infernape.

Deoxys-D -Problem.

Dusclops - Problem.

Ferrothorn -Infernape or Salamence.

Forretress -See above.

Gliscor -Swampert.

Hippowdon -Swampert or Salamence.

Jellicent -Problem. Can take Salamence's HP Electric or Celebi's Leaf Storm.

Latias -Should go back to Ubers.

Murkrow - WTF?!

Ninetales - Swampert w/out balloon, Salamence with balloon.

Politoed - Swampert or Celebi.

Porygon2 -Infernape.

Rotom-W - Celebi hits it hard with Leaf Storm.

Skarmory -Infernape blasts the crap out of it.

Snorlax -Close Combat. Or Superpower.

Suicune -Celebi or Salamence.

Swampert -Celebi.

Tentacruel -Celebi or Salamence's HP Electric.

Vaporeon -See Above.

Whimsicott -Very annoying, but beatable.

Xatu - Swampert or Salamence.

Zapdos -Swampert.

 

[Zephyr]

Hi shinyskarmory. Right away I can see your team may have trouble with Set-up sweepers as well as a lot of faster threats later on in the game. For this I suggest you use Dragonite over Salamence. First off, you'll like that Dragonite will offer a lot more bulk to the team, which also helps since it'll need to be able to take a hit in the first place to even be able to receive a Wish pass from Blissey. Next, Extreme speed will be invaluable for your team as it will hit hard and take out a lot of faster frailer sweepers who can do a lot of damage to your team, in particularly Life Orb Latios, which can outspeed and do a ton of damage to everything on your team with the right move. This will also help against threats like Thunderus, as it'll take a ton of damage from Extreme speed, and to top it off, Dragonite can help you beat stall, which will be a big help as Infernape is your only reliable means of stall breaking. Here is the set:

Dragonite @ Life Orb
Nature @ Serious
EVs: 212 Atk / 152 SAtk / 144 Spd
Inner Focus / Multiscale
- Draco Meteor
- ExtremeSpeed
- Superpower / Brick Break
- Fire Blast

This can hit really hard from both offensive sides. You can also drop Superpower for Brick Break and switch your ability to Multiscale if you'd like. Good luck!

 

[Battler3797]

if your going to run a specs dragon then latios is a better option over salamence and is a better special attacker in general.



Latios
move 1: Draco Meteor / Dragon Pulse
move 2: Surf
move 3: Hidden Power Fire
move 4: Recover / Thunderbolt / Psyshock
item: Life Orb / Expert Belt/ Choice Specs
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe



Also on celebi after one leaf storm its done so i personally would change it to giga drain so it can be in use for longer and give it some more recovery in case it doesnt have time to recover (which believe me there are battles where recoverin just isnt an option)

 

[Tangelo]

Great team! Just a few nitpicks here and there.

Skarmory - I think the best Skarmory set would be 92 Spe Taunt + Spikes Skarmory works best. He rarely ever doesn't set up Spikes and SR can go on Celebi over Earth Power or TWave. The EVs are 252 HP and 92 Spe with the rest dumped into either of the defences. I forget exactly what 92 Spe does, but it outspeeds enemy Skarmory and slower.

Infernape - Standard MixApe is standard.

Salamence - I'd have to agree with the guy above me that DMeteor Specs Latios just does this job better.

Swampert - I <3 CB Swampy.

Celebi - I disagree with the above guy, keep Leaf Storm. Tinkerbell is meant for support, not sweeping. 2 Leaf Storms still out damage 2 Giga Drains anyways. SR over TWave or EP.

Blissey - If you keep TWave on Celebi, change Toxic to TWave so they don't overlap. T's also better to cripple Physical switch ins then poison them.

 

[dragonuser]

yea for ur dragon type either put salamence as support/ ddancer(which dragonite is better at) or switch to latios/hydreigon both have insane power and decent typings

 

[Battler3797]

Celebi - I disagree with the above guy, keep Leaf Storm. Tinkerbell is meant for support, not sweeping. 2 Leaf Storms still out damage 2 Giga Drains anyways. SR over TWave or EP.

Exactly its ment for support not sweeping (uhh leaf storm is a sweeper move) You are correct 2 LS does outdamage 2 GD but you have to remember you might be doing more damage with 2 LS but when you are using 2 GD half the damage you do comes back for recovery (which is more support) but this is just a personal preference because there are many different ways to run a celebi and this is just what i prefer

 

[BKC]

The concept behind this team appears to come from the DPP Salamence era, and one gen later, it has the potential to be very solid but it needs some changes.

Let's start with Skarmory; it is a huge waste to not run Spikes. His typing and bulk give him a ton of free switchins so finding the time to set them up won't be very hard; multiple hazards really benefit this team because it will make it much harder for your opponent to switch into your hard hitters. I would run Spikes over Stealth Rock because you've got a very viable SR setter in Blissey, but more on that later.

Max speed on Skarm is also a waste since it cuts into his longevity, which he needs in order to defeat powerful physical attackers such as Excadrill, Conkeldurr and Landorus. 252 HP / 252 Defense / 4 Atk is the best spread for the job. Lastly, I would use Shed Shell as the item choice because Magnezone is very common, especially in conjunction with the physical attackers that Skarm is here to stop; imagine how much it would suck for you to get trapped and then have your team destroyed by a Haxorus.

Next, Salamence. Your current Choice Specs set is run much more effectively by Latios, who has more speed, more power, more bulk, and access to Trick. There are a few options you can go with here. You can replace Salamence for this Latios, or you can change Mence to a role that Latios does not do better - a mixed set to break stall or a Dragon Dancer to sweep late-game. Either one is supported well on this team, so it's up to you which one you want to use.

mixed set

Salamence @ Life Orb | Naive | Ability: Intimidate | EVs: 116 Atk / 216 SpA / 176 Spe
Draco Meteor | Fire Blast / Flamethrower | Brick Break | Roost

Dragon Dancer

Salamence @ Life Orb | Naughty | Ability: Moxie | EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Dragon Dance | Dragon Claw | Earthquake | Fire Blast / Draco Meteor

Finally, Blissey. You lack a Stealth Rock setter by running Spikes on Skarm, and relying on him for both hazards puts too much pressure on you to keep him alive. I'd rather not change Swampert's set because the Choice Bander is extremely effective, so the best option is to drop Blissey's Toxic for Stealth Rock. Toxic isn't really needed since this team is offensive for the most part; with hazard support, Seismic Toss is all you'll need to strike back. If you really don't want to lose Toxic, I recommend dropping Wish/Protect for Softboiled/Toxic.

Good luck!

 

[shinyskarmory]

Just posting to confirm that I am now playtesting:

BKM's Skarmory and Blissey, and Zephyr's Dragonite.

Still need more suggestions.

 

[Team Amon Amarth]

Salamence can be used over Latios/Hydreigon, and not be outclassed if you take advantage of it's superior Attack stat- I'd recommend putting Outrage on your set to do that- Dual Dragon attacks is very fearsome, in conjunction with Flamethrower and Hydro Pump not much walls it.

Also, by your powers combined, I am Captain Planet!

 

[AB2]

Hi ShinySkarmory, this is a pretty nice team. You do have a problem with a few pretty common threats, which is hurting the team's performance. Calm mind Reuniclus can set up on Blissey and sweep your team pretty easily. There is almost no way that you can stop this because after even one cm boost, your entire team can be taken out. Although you're reliant on Infernape to take out threats such as Skarmory and Ferrothorn, both get many optimal chances to spike easily on this team. Teams with more defensive builds can really cause you some pain as you have no clean way to break through defensive cores. I feel that Swampert isn't really doing much for this team. In your threat list, it seems like you rely on Swampert to beat quite a few threats that it really can't win against. You do seem to rely on it quite a bit, so I recommend dropping Swampert for a chople Tyranitar. A set with crunch | pursuit | fire blast | stealth rock, sassy, and 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD is the best possible set.

Tyranitar is really great for taking out the lati twins and being able to sponge many special hits, but now you should focus on supporting Salamence for a sweep later in the match. The hazard problem is something that you must deal with, along with faster sweepers such as Thundurus with hammer arm and Terrakion. Excadrill would really be helpful over Blissey in this situation. Excadrill can make a very solid check to Thundurus, non Balloon Terrakion, and Volcarona. More importantly, Excadrill is able to easily rapid spin away any type of entry hazard which really helps Salamence out in breaking down teams. The standard swords dance set with rapid spin in the last slot would really work as Salamence would be able to bust holes in teams much more easily if there is no stealth rock on the field.

As for some smaller changes, I recommend running the mixed Salamence set that others have suggested you to use. Mixed Salamence with draco meteor / fire blast / brick break / roost will allow you to easily blow holes in your opponents team if you make sure stealth rock is off the field. Salamence would also really appreciate spikes support. Skarmory is not really the best user of stealth rock, I would try running a set of spikes / roost / whirlwind / brave bird on Skarmory. Skarmory also needs to have a heavy hp investment. 252 HP | 240 Def | 16 Spe is what you should run on it. Finally, I would recommend running a modest nature on Celebi with a set of nasty plot / giga drain / hidden power [fire] / recover with leftovers. This Celebi will help you sponge hits more easily being able to counter threats like Rotom-W. It is also able to last much longer due to having leftovers as opposed to life orb.

I really think that this team will greatly improve with these changes, good luck.

 

[Ninjadolphin]

I cant believe no one else has said this yet, but blissey really needs 252 hp/ 252 defense with a bold(+def, -atk) nature, otherwise it will die to just about any attack, including various pursuits which would ruin you. It still has more than enough special defense to takehits without the investment.

 

[Jaetheho]

+1 on blissey, and i think u have a cloyster weakness. it can OHKO EVERY POKEMON ON YOUR TEAM, out speed and what not, kill sharmory with hydro pump, and your infernape wont KO with mach punch

 

[Aeromence]

BKC is right, change mence to latios if using special, but with mixed, mence is the only poke worth using facing competition only from dnite (who lacks raw power) and hydreigon (who lacks recovery and a high attack stat) If you go mixed, try this:

name: MixMence
move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Fire Blast
move 3: Brick Break
move 4: Roost / Outrage
nature: Rash / Naive
item: Life Orb
evs: 116 Atk / 216 SpA / 176 Spe

And latios:

name: Offensive
move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Surf
move 3: Hidden Power Fire
move 4: Recover / Thunderbolt / Psyshock
item: Life Orb / Expert Belt
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

gl

 

[Battler3797]

BATTLER3797 is right, change mence to latios if using special, BKC is right with mixed, mence is the only poke worth using facing competition only from dnite (who lacks raw power) and hydreigon (who lacks recovery and a high attack stat) If you go mixed, try this:

name: MixMence
move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Fire Blast
move 3: Brick Break
move 4: Roost / Outrage
nature: Rash / Naive
item: Life Orb
evs: 116 Atk / 216 SpA / 176 Spe

(bkc suggested this)

And latios:

name: Offensive
move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Surf
move 3: Hidden Power Fire
move 4: Recover / Thunderbolt / Psyshock
item: Life Orb / Expert Belt
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

I Suggested this first though not bkc


gl

Sorry if i sound paranoid but i like to get credit when i occasionally rate a team good.

 

[Aeromence]

Sorry if i sound paranoid but i like to get credit when i occasionally rate a team good.

Oh soz, and i just wanna say that naive isn't worth using on mixmence now. just go with rash

 

[shinyskarmory]

+1 on blissey, and i think u have a cloyster weakness. it can OHKO EVERY POKEMON ON YOUR TEAM, out speed and what not, kill sharmory with hydro pump, and your infernape wont KO with mach punch

I should have talked more in the thread about how much I hate Cloyster. Game Freak buffed the HELL out of that thing this gen.

Battler: I'm sorry. I'll edit that into the post.

AB2: I appreciate the detailed rate, and I agree with a lot of what you said. However, CB Swampert has a ridiculous amount of power and outstanding bulk, so that's why I use it to beat so many threats. The wishpasses from Blissey helped to keep Swampert alive, but now I'm playtesting the other blissey more :/