Magneton* who was pretty good in Gen4 UU (outside of the rampant Fire-types) and almost stood a chance in Gen4 OU.
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(MC) Middle Cup Tier
- Thread starter R4GEKILL
- Start date
- Status
How is MC?
With Bulky pokemon like chansey, Dusclops and Porygon2, Maybe Specs Kadabra with Psycho shock can might care of chansey.
As for pokemon in the tier that can use Knock off, Trick or Switcheroo
Knock off
http://veekun.com/dex/pokemon/searc...f&move=&move=&move=&evolution_position=middle
For some reason it's missing Machoke because Machop can learn it, maybe Machoke can't learn it but can only get the move by pre-evolution.
Trick
http://veekun.com/dex/pokemon/search?move=Trick&move=&move=&move=&evolution_position=middle
No MC pokemon learns switcheroo.
Taking out those evolites suddenly becomes important.
Specs Kadabra looks more and more stronger with Psycho shock, Shadowball, HP-fighting and Trick (really screws with walls like chansey)
Klang misses out on shift gear, level 52 :(
Looking an sweeping weather teams
Rain gets,
Poliwhirl,
Palpitoad
Lombre
While Sun Gets
Ivysaur,
Weepinbell,
Gloom,
Skiploom
Nuzleaf
Trickroom
Duosion
Dusclops
Gothorita
Kirlia
Lampent
Porygon2
Haunter and Kadabra don't count beacause they're too fast to benefit from trickroom
and there are heaps of slow sweepers in the tier too
With Bulky pokemon like chansey, Dusclops and Porygon2, Maybe Specs Kadabra with Psycho shock can might care of chansey.
As for pokemon in the tier that can use Knock off, Trick or Switcheroo
Knock off
http://veekun.com/dex/pokemon/searc...f&move=&move=&move=&evolution_position=middle
For some reason it's missing Machoke because Machop can learn it, maybe Machoke can't learn it but can only get the move by pre-evolution.
Trick
http://veekun.com/dex/pokemon/search?move=Trick&move=&move=&move=&evolution_position=middle
No MC pokemon learns switcheroo.
Taking out those evolites suddenly becomes important.
Specs Kadabra looks more and more stronger with Psycho shock, Shadowball, HP-fighting and Trick (really screws with walls like chansey)
Klang misses out on shift gear, level 52 :(
Looking an sweeping weather teams
Rain gets,
Poliwhirl,
Palpitoad
Lombre
While Sun Gets
Ivysaur,
Weepinbell,
Gloom,
Skiploom
Nuzleaf
Trickroom
Duosion
Dusclops
Gothorita
Kirlia
Lampent
Porygon2
Haunter and Kadabra don't count beacause they're too fast to benefit from trickroom
and there are heaps of slow sweepers in the tier too
^ That's a terrible example
why would you use those pokemon in a NFE tier?
You'd use Chansey and Pikachu instead wouldn't you?
a NFE tier would be nice as you'd have more options for Rapid spinning but it'd also increase the options of hazards and also include weather with vulpix, snover and hippotas.
why would you use those pokemon in a NFE tier?
You'd use Chansey and Pikachu instead wouldn't you?
a NFE tier would be nice as you'd have more options for Rapid spinning but it'd also increase the options of hazards and also include weather with vulpix, snover and hippotas.
Knock Off Pikachu and Kadabra are over powered, since Chansey just loses it's Eviolite. I'm tempted to try a Toxic Orb Trick Kadabra; Steal Chanseys Eviolite and Poison her in one move, then set up Calm Mind. Could work, will be better with Magic Guard, though.
Don't even start with "who's tier" it is nonsense. That's honestly the dumbest and least worthwhile thing this thread or any other could be discussing. Who gives a fuck where the idea even came from. If people play it and support it then we all win. If we argue over "who invented the concept" like some 5 year old girls then we'll likely get our threads closed, and the entire concept will die out even quicker than it inevitably already will. Just don't even start with this stupid shit.
Dragonair and Fraxure also learn Dragon Tail.
I can really see Dragonair being used as a MC Milotic, with it's new ability Marvel Scale and access to great wall moves such as Dragon Tail, Haze, Toxic, Thunderwave, Rest, Substitute, Protect and (though to a lesser extent because of no reflect) Light screen.
However, though Dragonair is able to learn both Rest and Sleep Talk, which would be amazing with Marvel Scale, Sleep Talk is currently a Gen IV only TM and thus can only be used with Shed Skin (while though inferior to Marvel Scale, it does give Dragonair a 30% chance to shrug off its sleep status early at the end of each turn, which can be useful).
Hopefully, Sleep Talk will be released with DW Dratini in the near future, or even more likely, added as a Move Tutor in the 3rd Gen V game much like the Emerald move tutor.
However, though Dragonair is able to learn both Rest and Sleep Talk, which would be amazing with Marvel Scale, Sleep Talk is currently a Gen IV only TM and thus can only be used with Shed Skin (while though inferior to Marvel Scale, it does give Dragonair a 30% chance to shrug off its sleep status early at the end of each turn, which can be useful).
Hopefully, Sleep Talk will be released with DW Dratini in the near future, or even more likely, added as a Move Tutor in the 3rd Gen V game much like the Emerald move tutor.
This tier is really cool because of zero weather. It's a little stallish but there are some very hard hitters there. Of course there are some Pokemon there that would never ever get used (Cascoon,Metapod,etc.) and there are some that are broken as broken can be (Chansey, Dusclops, Porygon 2, etc.). I don't want to sound like a complete idiot, but a Middle Cup "Ubers" list sounds like a good idea. Some of these are a little too strong.
But KLINK gets it at 48. There is a way to get it on its moveset.
I was bored browsing the MC Pokemon list and I came up with this idea for a late game sweeper (think something like SD Luke):
Dragonair (M) @ Wide Lens
Trait: Shed Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 188 SAtk / 68 Spd
Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)
- Dragon Dance
- ExtremeSpeed
- Dragon Rush
- Fire Blast
Dragonair lacks Dragon Claw until DNite, which is why I chose Dragon Rush. He also likes the extra firepower from Fire Blast over Flamethrower, so Wide Lens actually works out well for this set allowing Dragonair to get a little extra power out of his attacks without the expense of poor accuracy.
IIRC, he's also the only Pokemon in the entire tier with access to Extremespeed (Togetic? I know Kiss can get it, but I don't remember how off the top of my head, or if it's only Kiss that can get it), and therefore it gives him a bit of a niche in that regard.
Shed Skin can also potentially be helpful in preventing Dragonair from sweeping to his fullest by possibly shrugging off status.
The speed EV's are strictly to outspeed Jolly Gabite after 1 DD.
Alternatively, I suppose an Eviolite set could work by substituting Dragon Rush with Outrage (if you don't mind being locked in for a few turns), and Fire Blast with Flamethrower. I haven't run any calcs on anything to really see the difference in the latter. I just know the few Steels in the tier won't like it either way.
Dragonair (M) @ Wide Lens
Trait: Shed Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 188 SAtk / 68 Spd
Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)
- Dragon Dance
- ExtremeSpeed
- Dragon Rush
- Fire Blast
Dragonair lacks Dragon Claw until DNite, which is why I chose Dragon Rush. He also likes the extra firepower from Fire Blast over Flamethrower, so Wide Lens actually works out well for this set allowing Dragonair to get a little extra power out of his attacks without the expense of poor accuracy.
IIRC, he's also the only Pokemon in the entire tier with access to Extremespeed (Togetic? I know Kiss can get it, but I don't remember how off the top of my head, or if it's only Kiss that can get it), and therefore it gives him a bit of a niche in that regard.
Shed Skin can also potentially be helpful in preventing Dragonair from sweeping to his fullest by possibly shrugging off status.
The speed EV's are strictly to outspeed Jolly Gabite after 1 DD.
Alternatively, I suppose an Eviolite set could work by substituting Dragon Rush with Outrage (if you don't mind being locked in for a few turns), and Fire Blast with Flamethrower. I haven't run any calcs on anything to really see the difference in the latter. I just know the few Steels in the tier won't like it either way.
Togetic can't learn ExtremeSpeed.
I'd actually put Outrage as the main over D-Rush...
I'd actually put Outrage as the main over D-Rush...
Edit - Had a preliminary priority list for the tier here, but Veekun hates me so I need to go back and revise it -_-
I opted not to have Outrage since it's not an Eviolite set, and therefore it will likely die quickly if locked in to a move it doesn't want to be in (for example, if it needs to be switched out asap), especially with the bulky as hell nature of this tier due to almost anything using Eviolite. I can see them both having their merits though.
Damn, Chansey would've been 100x manageable with ST Lampent. Switch Lampent in on ST, completely wall, outspeed, and Sub on Chansey, CM to your liking, win.
Yea, Dewott hits a little harder than I expected, and is also a bit more useable all around than Marill, at least imo. He also has a pretty useable Base 83 SpA, compared to Marills umm....20..
That would be so nice. The only way out for Chansey would be via item (Shed Shell or lolRing Target w/ S-Toss).
I think BoltBeam + Recover pretty much suffices, with Tri Attack/Toxic/Magic Coat being your options for slot 4.
It's for Eviolite Magneton/Metang, who would otherwise destroy Dragonair very quickly. It's a shame DNair can't EQ until he evolves.
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