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(MC) Middle Cup Tier
- Thread starter R4GEKILL
- Start date
- Status
In Feraligatr's case the abundance of bulky waters and grasses make its life hard. In Croconaws case that isnt really the problem but everything is sooo bulky. I'm pretty sure that even if Croconaw had DD I would still use Swords Dance with Aqua jet as the only thing he really needs the speed boost for can usually be taken out by =2 aqua jet. Thats how things seem to work in MC. Everything is super bulky and slow or frail and fast. Croconaw need some supposrt though maybe wall breaking monferno/blaziken/ to help with grass types throw on a bulyk grass type to whiuttle things away with toxic and another prominent FWG core
Combusken is ok in this tier compared to Blaziken, because it lacks Hi Jump Kick, and you have competition with Monferno, who has stronger offences and better STAB attacks.
How does Clefairy fare as an Eviolite Magic Guard abuser? It's bulkier than Duosion who is the only other viable Magic Guard user in the tier. With a set something like:
-Calm Mind/Cosmic Power
-Assist Power
-Toxic
-Softboiled
I have no idea what the offence is like in MC so I might just be suggesting something awful.
-Calm Mind/Cosmic Power
-Assist Power
-Toxic
-Softboiled
I have no idea what the offence is like in MC so I might just be suggesting something awful.
lolwut.
Silly me. Still, I like the way you just pointed out the mistake instead of actually contributing to the thread or commenting on the set. Its what Smogonites do best.
I agree with your point in general, but since when are Combusken's 85/85 offences worse than Monferno's 78/78.
Speaking of Fire-Fighting starters however, what do you guys think of Pignite? He's way bulkier than the other two, has base 93 atk, and has got a bunch of powerful moves (though I don't think he gets Swords Dance, he really would rather have Close Combat over Superpower, and a lot of his better moves have recoil, which probably isn't so good in such a bulky tier). He's also got base 55 spd which, while not good, isn't as bad as Emboar's base 65 in the much faster world of normal Pokemon (Pignite's is the same as unboosted Combusken).
The set looks OK. Almost completely walled by the tier's four steels, Duosion, and anyone who manages to Taunt you before you get enough boosts (or any of the three darks in the tier if they carry Taunt) but otherwise pretty good.
Isn't Ice Punch affected by Sheer Force to? It does have a freeze chance... (of course, it only gets Ice Punch if/when female DW Totodile's are released...)
I don't think there are any detailed ones since I'm not even sure if you can play MC on any of the servers, but here's the list of the Pokemon in the tier by base speed stat and some useful information:
01. Electabuzz/Kadabra (105)
03. Grovyle/Haunter (95)
------------------------outspeeds +1 Choice Scarf Speed Boost Combusken when running a neutral nature at +2*
05. Magmar (93)
06. Golbat/Vigoroth/Poliwhirl/Pikachu (90)
10. Seadra (85)
11. Servine (83)
12. Gabite (82)
-------------------------outspeeds +1 Choice Scarf Speed Boost Combusken when running a +speed nature at +2*
13. Monferno (81)
14. Charmeleon/Quilava/Skiploom/Staravia (80)
--------------------------outspeeds all scarfers when running a neutral nature at +2
18. Krokorok (74)
19. Pidgeotto (71)
20. Magneton/Dragonair/Vibrava (70)
23. Palpitoad (69)
24. Fraxure (67)
--------------------------outspeeds all scarfers when running a +speed nature at +2
25. Roselia/Nidorino/Tranquill (65)
--------------------------outspeeds all non-scarfers when running a neutral nature at +1
28. Porygon2/Dewott/Ivysaur/Bayleef/Herdier/Luxio/Nuzleaf (60)
35. Vanillish (59)
36. Zweilous/Wartortle/Croconaw (58)
39. Nidorina (56)
40. Pignite/Combusken/Gothorita/Weepinbell/Lampent (55)
--------------------------outspeeds all non-scarfers when running a +speed nature at +1
45. Pupitar (51)
46. Chansey/Piloswine/Klang/Metang/Shelgon/Prinplup/Marshtomp/Lombre/Kirlia (50)
55. Loudred (48)
56. Whirlipede (47)
57. Sealeo/Machoke/Flaaffy (45)
60. Swadloon (42)
61. Rhydon/Lairon/Togetic/Eelektrik/Gurdurr/Gloom/Marill (40)
68. Grotle (36)
69. Graveler/Clefairy/Kakuna (35)
-------------------------outspeeds all non-scarfers when running a neutral nature at +2
72. Duosion/Metapod (30)
-------------------------outspeeds all non-scarfers when running a +speed nature at +2
74. Dusclops (25)
75. Boldore/Jigglypuff (20)
77. Silcoon/Cascoon (15)
* assuming +1 Spd with a Choice Scarf gives 2.25 times your initial max speed
03. Grovyle/Haunter (95)
------------------------outspeeds +1 Choice Scarf Speed Boost Combusken when running a neutral nature at +2*
05. Magmar (93)
06. Golbat/Vigoroth/Poliwhirl/Pikachu (90)
10. Seadra (85)
11. Servine (83)
12. Gabite (82)
-------------------------outspeeds +1 Choice Scarf Speed Boost Combusken when running a +speed nature at +2*
13. Monferno (81)
14. Charmeleon/Quilava/Skiploom/Staravia (80)
--------------------------outspeeds all scarfers when running a neutral nature at +2
18. Krokorok (74)
19. Pidgeotto (71)
20. Magneton/Dragonair/Vibrava (70)
23. Palpitoad (69)
24. Fraxure (67)
--------------------------outspeeds all scarfers when running a +speed nature at +2
25. Roselia/Nidorino/Tranquill (65)
--------------------------outspeeds all non-scarfers when running a neutral nature at +1
28. Porygon2/Dewott/Ivysaur/Bayleef/Herdier/Luxio/Nuzleaf (60)
35. Vanillish (59)
36. Zweilous/Wartortle/Croconaw (58)
39. Nidorina (56)
40. Pignite/Combusken/Gothorita/Weepinbell/Lampent (55)
--------------------------outspeeds all non-scarfers when running a +speed nature at +1
45. Pupitar (51)
46. Chansey/Piloswine/Klang/Metang/Shelgon/Prinplup/Marshtomp/Lombre/Kirlia (50)
55. Loudred (48)
56. Whirlipede (47)
57. Sealeo/Machoke/Flaaffy (45)
60. Swadloon (42)
61. Rhydon/Lairon/Togetic/Eelektrik/Gurdurr/Gloom/Marill (40)
68. Grotle (36)
69. Graveler/Clefairy/Kakuna (35)
-------------------------outspeeds all non-scarfers when running a neutral nature at +2
72. Duosion/Metapod (30)
-------------------------outspeeds all non-scarfers when running a +speed nature at +2
74. Dusclops (25)
75. Boldore/Jigglypuff (20)
77. Silcoon/Cascoon (15)
* assuming +1 Spd with a Choice Scarf gives 2.25 times your initial max speed
As should be clear, this list also does not account for things like the fact that things like Chansey will never run speed, but, since we don't have enough data to establish what the most common ev spreads for the 78 Middle Cup-iteers's are, I don't think it is currently possible to make a list that incorporates stuff like that.
...anyway, looking at this, Agility Special Sweeper Porygon2 anyone? 105 SpAtk (with download potentially giving you the equivalent of Special Attack greater than unboosted Deoxys-a), great defenses, and the ability to outspeed everything but Scarf Kadabra/Electabuzz at +2 with a neutral nature. Maybe something like:
Porygon2@Eviolite/Life Orb
4 HP 252 SpAtk 252 Spd
Modest (+SpAtk -Atk)
-Agility
-Recover
-Tri-Attack
-HP Water/Psyshock
Agility because that's the point of the set, Recover for recovery, and Tri-Attack for STAB. HP Water gives perfect coverage and hits six of the eleven resists/immunes to normal for super-effective damage (3 for 4x damage), but Psyshock, while giving you coverage walled by the four steels of MC, lets you 2-hit KO Max/Max+ Chansey with any prior damage/entry hazards up provided you are using life orb and have a download boost (damn Chansey is bulky). Toxic or Trick (if you're running Life Orb) are some other options I can think of off the top of my head that might work in the last spot, but they leave you with a lot more things that completely wall you. Also, Boltbeam is probably an alternative coverage-wise, though it's walled by Magneton.
The porygon set looks decent as it can really easily set up but it just doesnt have the power to break through walls like chansey and with toxic floating around so much it wont last very long. Id much prefer a nasty plot set. On offensive sets, power is much more important than speed unless you have terrible defenses and no recovery move.
Nasty Plot probably would make for a better boosting move. Unfortunately, the only member of the Porygon family able to learn it is Porygon-Z.
Porygon2's only boosting moves other than Agility are Sharpen (lolphysical set anyone? Sharpen/Recover/Return/Zen Headbutt*?), Double Team (illegal), Psych Up (situational), and Defense Curl (but no Rollout).
*because that's the only other physical move Porygon2 gets that isn't completely terrible
Are any of the birds bulky enough to abuse Roost+Toxic? I know Golbat is, but I haven't heard much of any others... (Tranquill hits over 300 defense with Eviolite boost and a positive nature+Ev's...)
Wow. I just assumed. Than I would much rather use a different wallbreaker. Normal isnt a great type for sweeping especially in RU with Dusclops and toxic spikes. if I were to use a wallbreaking/sweeping normal type Id probably use swords dance vigoroth (it does learn swords dance right?).
On the note of bulky flying types they face a lot of competition of toxic=healing move users like Chansey as theyre typing doesnt give them much of an advantage (fighting and earth in exchange for rock ice and electric weakness). They do however have spikes and toxic spikes immunities so they are viable. Golbat seems good with amazing bulk but people seem to be neglecting Togetic. 85/105 defenses are great unboosted so with Eviolite its amazingly bulky. It does have a pretty bad HP which makes wish passing hard but Sub roost and toxic would be hard to break. Sub roosters seem tough to handle in gneral as the bestway of damaging in the tier seems to be residual damage.
On the note of bulky flying types they face a lot of competition of toxic=healing move users like Chansey as theyre typing doesnt give them much of an advantage (fighting and earth in exchange for rock ice and electric weakness). They do however have spikes and toxic spikes immunities so they are viable. Golbat seems good with amazing bulk but people seem to be neglecting Togetic. 85/105 defenses are great unboosted so with Eviolite its amazingly bulky. It does have a pretty bad HP which makes wish passing hard but Sub roost and toxic would be hard to break. Sub roosters seem tough to handle in gneral as the bestway of damaging in the tier seems to be residual damage.
Actually no. Its only non-outclassed attack boosting moves are Hone Claws, Bulk Up, and Work Up (it also gets Curse but there's not reason to use that outside trick room). In fact, Slaking doesn't get Swords Dance either.
Togetic is the only normal type MC Pokemon with access to either Swords Dance or Nasty Plot, getting Nasty Plot.
You're probably right about my Porygon set though. I suppose Toxic or something could be used in place of Agility, but then the set seems like a pretty normal Porygon2 set anyway.
Thats really bizarre. Viable Swords Dance users. Croconaw can utilize Swords Dance and aqua jet better than Dewott. Fraxure can but Id rather use Dragon Dance. Ivysaur is better as a bulky set. Charmeleon maybe. Weepinbell has a nice attack stat and immunity to toxic but it would need sunny day to work best. Rhydon would be a great tank. Im not sure if id rather use Rock Polish or Swords Danceon on it maybe both but Dusclops could wall it and cripple with Will-o-wisp and it is susceptible to toxic. Combusken obviously with speed boost .Grovyle has nice speed and attacking power but entry hazards hurt and is easily walled. Nuzleaf seems outclassed by Grovyle and Weepinbell. Monferno being a nice wallbreaker outclassed by Combusken is debateable. Grotle outclassed by Grovyle and Weepinbell. Servine outclassed by Grovyle. Phew thats all the viable Swords Dancers
Nasty Plotters next: pikachu is obviously great with light ball and nice speed and sub to block toxic. Monferno can wallbreak on the special side too or even go mix giving it a niche over Combusken thanks to Nasty Plot. Golbat has pathetic special attack and is better bulky; if I wanted a flying Nasty plot user Togetic would be better with baton pass. Nuzleaf... lol. And thats it. Your welcome :).
Nasty Plotters next: pikachu is obviously great with light ball and nice speed and sub to block toxic. Monferno can wallbreak on the special side too or even go mix giving it a niche over Combusken thanks to Nasty Plot. Golbat has pathetic special attack and is better bulky; if I wanted a flying Nasty plot user Togetic would be better with baton pass. Nuzleaf... lol. And thats it. Your welcome :).
I don't believe Togetic doesn't get NP
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