Exploring the Glitchmon Metagame

[Toaster]

It's about time this thread has seen the light of day. Prior to the inclusion of the streetmons server, I have played around with a fair few pokemon. The one being most worthy to note is Rhydon:

Rhydon (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Rock Head
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpAtk)
-Shell Smash
-Head Smash
-Earthquake
-Wood Hammer

--
At first glance, its defensive capabilities and offensive seem pretty similar to golem as they both share the same common typing and same great resists to several common moves (V-create and Extremespeed.) However, Rhydon's niches extend beyond that. In addition of being another soild counter to Ursaring. Rhydon also gets access to Rock Head Head Smashes. Coming from 130 Base Attack, unboosted Rhydon alone has the ability to 2HKO most physically defensive focused Streetmon Pokemon (with the exception of Machoke which we'll get to later) , and due to the massively offensive nature of streetpkmn, most other pokemon Rhydon will see are more offensive tailored and are already not willing to come in on unboosted Head Smashes.

However its main interest lies within its impressive physical bulk coming from an eviolite. To put this into perspective, Support Groudon only has a chance to 2HKO Rhydon with Earthquake and after a Shell Smash only has a 2.56% chance to OHKO it. Meanwhile Rhydon does 80.69% - 95.05% to Max/Max Impish Groudon with Wood Hammer after a Shell Smash Boost. The lack of Recoil Damage further taken by Wood Hammer and Head Smash allows Rhydon to still maintain its health while taking such attacks. While not the best scenario, Rhydon also has the ability to survive unboosted Power Whips from the likes of pokemon such as Arcanine. It's special bulk coming from an Eviolite isn't too shabby either despite the rarity of specially oriented pokemon and the fact Rhydon would be unwilling to stay in on them. Lugia's Aura Spheres only put up a 3HKO at best and a 28% chance to kill with a Tail Glow boost.

Head Smash and Earthquake are your obligatory STAB moves and and as such is pretty self explanatory (with the latter being your best move against Machoke after a Shell Smash.) While Wood Hammer covers up Groudon, a common obstacle for physical attackers. Rhydon, as with probably most shell smashers, requires Entry Hazard Support to crucially secure some 2HKOs and OHKOs after or before a shell smash despite the difficulty it is to maintain entry hazards in streetpkmn. Rhydon also appreciates pokemon such as Lum Sucker Punch Tyranitar who also further supports Rhydon with Sandstorm and the Special Defense Boost.

Do note that I am still in the process of testing Rhydon. This may mean the inclusion of a Trick Room or Support Set later on (latter has pretty questionable viability though.)

 

[Jaetheho]

i would use flare blitz or volt tackle but thats just me.

does marowak learn any of those abuse moves? a set like this:

-shell smash
-earthquake
-flare blitz
-head smash/volt switch/wood hammer

would wreck.

 

[Theorymon]

I doubt Shell Smash Marowak will work well. I mean if Groudon has Ursaring issues after a Shell Smash, Marowak is pretty much screwed by priority then. If you are going to use Marowak, imo it's best set would be a Trick Room set of sorts. Maybe something like Earthquake / Head Smash / Trick Room / V-create. Its going to have Machoke problems though (it speedties with Machoke, and you have to carry bone club). TBH I'm not sure if the power boost over say, Iron Ball Groudon (who can underspeed Machoke under TR and Sheer Cold it) is worth it, so I'd need some calcs.

I know its a bit difficult to test stuff atm because the server isn't usually very active, but I think we should organize a time to at least get together and test stuff, because honestly some of the posts Ive seen in this thread obviously show that the users haven't played this metagame before!

 

[jc104]

Toaster: I know that Rhydon is effective, but does it really makes sense so use Shell Smash on something so slow. After a Shell Smash that thing doesn't even outrun max speed Magnezone, let alone Groudon, Jirachi, Scarf Machamp etc. Gengar and Dugtrio outrun you even after 2 Shell Smashes! Even if many of these cannot KO outright, they can easily put Rhydon to sleep and set up themselves. I think you need to consider adding a few Speed evs (e.g 20 to outrun mag, 92 for adamant Groudon, 240 for Timid Gengar). Otherwise, you don't just risk losing out on a sweep. You risk becoming setup bait. Bulky as it may be, something so vulnerable to Sleep moves cannot afford to be slow after a turn of setup.

edit: Rhydon and Golem are both viable! Can we have a big RBY-style argument now?

 

[viol and bass]

I like Streetmons. I like it a lot. :D

Edit: So people should get on the damn server.

 

[mamoswineFTW]

Just had a stroke of inspiration, and checked something - Nincada can learn Mimic in gen 3. Therefore, doesn't that make it possible to have an Endeavour-Shedinja? Ie:

Shendeavour@Focus Sash
255 Att, 255 Speed (No point in adding to the other stats)
Adamant/Jolly
Endeavour
Extremespeed/Shadow Sneak
Destiny Bond
Protect/Detect

Here's basically how it would work. Bring in Shed on something that won't use an SE move at that point (eg Ursaring/Groudon's moves other than V-Create), and endeavour on the switch (or survive hit with Focus Sash, then attack). ES/SS for the priority kill (SS/Sucker Punch in turn are the only priority to hit Sheddy). The other moves are a matter of fancy - Protect/Detect simply because I had no idea what to put. Destiny bond could be an interesting one though - With a Focus Sash, you can survive a hit, and then Destiny Bond. The opponent probably won't like their sweeper from fainting so soon, so this will prompt a switch, allowing Endeavour-ing.

I think this guy could be the answer to combatting some of the top threats in this metagame. You can come in on most of the top threats if you predict they aren't going to use an SE move (Ursa's Fake out/ES, Groudon's EQ etc) and possibly get a KO out of this. This guy is NOT meant to be able to sweep - thought is rather silly actually - but he can be VERY useful.

I'm going to try him out myself as soon as I have the time.

 

[Mygavolt]

What about Recycle?

Pokémon used V-create!
Shedinja held on using its Focus Sash!
Shedinja used Recycle!
Shedinja found one Focus Sash!
Pokémon used V-create!
Shedinja held on using its Focus Sash!

...and so on and so forth.

 

[Box]

^ Something slower than Shedinja with priority would murder it. Besides, how many PP can you stall with Recycle anyway? Does Sheer Cold hit Shedinja?

It makes for very interesting combos though, and could make for a plausible addition to a stall team if ever someone figures ou how to make one.

 

[jc104]

Shedinja in streetmons is definitely a threat. I wouldn't exactly recommend using it, but I would certainly recommend preparing for it. Stealth Rock is unfortunately quite common in the metagame, which rather holds it back. Also, without Lum Berry, Shedinja is very vulnerable to sleep moves. Its best bet is probably to change its typing and then to use endeavour and priority (both moves if possible). Good type-changing moves include conversion2 and Reflect Type. Camouflage would make it a pure ground-type, but is not implemented on PO. That would even allow sheddy to survive in sandstorm! As for Recycle, that set is just a sitting duck. You are likely to run out of PP before the opponent does. Sacred Fire also kills you half the time.

Role Play Shedinja could be potentially hilarious. If the opponent sends out a Pokemon with Sturdy you really will become totally immune to attacks!

 

[Box]

Would Sturdy really work with Shedinja?

 

[Death Phenomeno]

Would Sturdy really work with Shedinja?

Yes. It would.

 

[Karpi]

Would it be worth it to have a Spite Dugtrio? It would have the ability to waste 5 PP of Machoke's Sheer Cold. You lose Dugtrio, but if Sheer Cold is neutralized after that point, you can just bring in a ghost like Gengar for a free setup.

 

[Bologo]

One thing I find interesting is that every level 1 Sturdy user (that can learn Mimic obviously) can pull off Endeavor + Shell Bell + Priority in this metagame. People always got frustrated by fighting the illegal level 1 Donphan because it had all 3 of these ingredients (since it can now get rid of Rock, Steel, and Ground pokemon that are immune to Sandstorm). They can even avoid Ursaring's Fake Out if they have Protect on their moveset. However, it does seem like it would still take a bit of support; ie. getting rid of Sleep-inducers and Ghosts and such, but it definitely sounds like an alternative for a Sturdy user on the team.

In fact, it's also kind of funny that they can all actually run the old L1 Smeargle set of Spore/Endeavor/Trick Room/Dragon Rage now (fucks over opponents who try to be cute and not attack to avoid dying from the priority attack after), but do it way better since they can do it several times, and not get fucked over by sleepers this way (rather, they become the sleeper). You do need to watch out for Ursaring if you decide to do this though.

Both sets need to watch out for Hail teams, since none of the Sturdy users are immune to Hail. But it is nice that a ton of them resist Stealth Rock, so just one turn of Leftovers brings them back to full health, which is handy if you decide to use Protect.

Of course, I'm not very familiar with this metagame, so it's possible that I'm overestimating these guys.

 

[jc104]

That's an interesting idea Bologo. Just note that most of them actually have to be at level 5 in order to learn mimic. Anyway, I'm pretty sure I've seen Theorymon using L5 endeavor sets before, for instance a Shuppet using something similar to that smeargle set (it works because it's immune to sleep and to ExtremeSpeed/Fake Out). I doubt that the sturdy sets work so well, as they are so vulnerable to sleep moves. SR is also fairly common.

If you can manage to use spite with digtrio, you could just as easily set up with the smashpass set I posted on page 1. This set is so scary that there is not much point trying anything else with Dugtrio.

 

[Himanattsu]

Possible solutions to Machamp or Machoke:

-Simple Beam. Slap it on a Sturdy or Sash user and you're fine.

-Entrainment. Swap it's ability out. I use Lopunny, though things like Weaville can outspeed Machamp and swap it's ability.

 

[Box]

Will Machamp retain it's Simple ability when hit with Simple Beam and it switches out?

 

[Jaetheho]

nope. which is why those two moves are useless.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

nope. which is why those two moves are useless.

It does have merit for being a temporary stop to Machamp's sweep by making Sheer Cold miss 70% of the time...

(although honestly I'd use Gastro Acid, better than both + not G5 move)

 

[Tomahawk]

or just use Sheer Cold and KO it...

 

[Pearl]

How good are Toxic Spikes in this metagame? With just one layer you'd be able to shut down most Lum Berry users such as Groudon, allowing stuff like Gengar to abuse Spore to its fullest potential. It'd also give some help against grounded Pokemon without a Lum Berry (whose name isn't Ursaring, obviously), like Machoke, Machamp among others.

 

[Zacchaeus]

or just use Sheer Cold and KO it...

Or just use Gastro Acid as already recommended because it can also cripple switch-ins instead of having a 30% chance of taking them out if they don't have an intact Focus Sash or Sturdy.

And I would never say that Entrainment, Skill Swap, and Simple Beam are "useless". Simple Beam would more often than not help out your opponent as I see it, but Entrainment could definitely be used if you managed it right, same thing applies for Skill Swap. A useless move would be Splash because practically every move has some use unless it's completely outclassed like Toxic over Poison Gas (in single battles)

 

[Box]

30% isn't bad, its the chance thunder has to miss FYI.

That aside, I think skill swap can't be called useless at all, because things like slaking and shedinja could use it to great effect.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

30% isn't bad, its the chance thunder has to miss FYI.

That aside, I think skill swap can't be called useless at all, because things like slaking and shedinja could use it to great effect.

the only place where you'll ever see Thunder is on a rain team, where it never misses.

aside from Slaking Skill Swap is really lolworthy. Trading your Gengar's Levitate away for Machamp's No Guard? Why, TYVM.

 

[Box]

Wait.

Skill Swap has no effect on No Guard.

DOH

 

[jc104]

Wait.

Skill Swap has no effect on No Guard.

DOH

You still get killed by Sheer Cold though...