Gen V Balanced Hackmons

[DTC]

Has this happened just recently or been going on. Ive seen Magic Bounce always bounce back spore?

It's fixed now.

I'm not sure if anyone realized this, but Soul Dew is legal in Hackmons. Latios and Latias are quite the special demons with Soul Dew. Here is a comparison in stats between Latios / Latias / Mewtwo / Lugia (note: Latios and Mewtwo have the Modest nature, Lugia and Latias have the Careful nature):

Latios: 364 HP / 251 Atk / 259 Def / 591 Special Attack / 478 Special Defense / 319 Speed

Latias: 364 HP / 251 Atk / 259 Def / 478 Special Attack / 591 Special Defense / 319 Speed

Mewtwo: 416 HP / 287 Atk / 279 Def / 447 Special Attack / 279 Special Defense / 359 Speed

Lugia: 416 HP / 279 Atk / 359 Def / 251 Special Attack / 447 Special Defense / 319 Speed

Latios and Latias obviously have some unfortunate flaws that Lugia and Mewtwo have, such as a weakness to Dragon and an inability to hold Leftovers/Lum Berry, but I think they could be very useful if you need a special sponge that can also dish some damage out. Hackmons is primarily physical, but I've noticed more special attackers have been appearing recently.

What kind of sets do you think Latios and Latias can run effectively? Here are sets I came up with a few days ago and tested to some success:

Latias @ Soul Dew
Trait: Prankster
Timid Nature
- Taunt / Haze
- Will-O-Wisp
- Softboiled
- Dragon Pulse

Latios @ Soul Dew
Trait: Contrary
Calm Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psycho Boost
- Recover
- Magic Coat

The Latias set is a "stallbreaker"/set-up sweeper check (most of which are special attackers), while the Latios set is a fast contrary sweeper. Latios can OHKO most of the tier at +4, and a lot of things get OHKO'd when it's just at only +2.

What do you guys think? Do Latias and Latios have a significant niche in Hackmons? What are some good sets that they can run that you've used successfully?

 

[Imanalt]

My objection to lati@s is that they cant take an extremespeed, which is just a crippling weakness :/

 

[Gerard]

I run

Latios @ Soul Dew
Trait: Contrary
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psycho Boost / Earth Power
- Overheat
- Vacuum Wave

I use Earth Power to have soething against the Flash Fire Registeel, altough tbh i have only used it once, that's still btter than Psycho Boost which I haven't used (is there anything common that you beat with it but not with draco meteor?), Vacuum Wave is for a bit of priority and to destroy random Sucker Punchs/Darkrai, sadly it's not as fast as ES but it's something, I use in conjunction with Shedinja/Lugia for Rocks, Safeguard and BP Cotton Guard and it's an awesome sweeper, it can take lot of things due to the great SpD (Palkia's Water Spout in the rain) and outspeeds almos anything

 

[canno]

^ While it's not a Special Attacking move and might not be too strong, you could run Close Combat to hit Flash Fire Registeel and give yourself a Def and SDef boost. Idk how useful this is in practice, but sounds nice in my head.

EDIT: Hell, even Superpower could work, slowly boosting it's power and boosting your Def. While you miss out on the SpDef rise, Soul Dew gives you a lot of SpDef anyways, plus the metagame is much more physical.

 

[akela]

Regice
Ability: Bad Dreams
Item: BrightPowder
Nature: Bold
Dream Eater, Nightmare, Spore, Power Gem

Nothing too special. Just something I've been tinkering with for Weather Teams. Regice for Hail, Registeel for Sandstorm.

 

[Omnigross266]

252Atk Pure Power Slaking (+Atk) ExtremeSpeed vs 252HP/252Def Cobalion (+Def): 26% - 30% (101 - 119 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.

252Atk Pure Power Slaking (+Atk) Shadow Sneak vs 252HP/252Def Cobalion (+Def): 8% - 10% (34 - 40 HP). Guaranteed 12HKO.

252Atk Pure Power Slaking (+Atk) Ice Shard vs 252HP/252Def Cobalion (+Def): 8% - 10% (34 - 40 HP). Guaranteed 12HKO.

The reason I only calculated for Priority moves is because without priority, Cobalion will hit first. Now, for Cobalion's calcs:

252Atk Pure Power Cobalion (Neutral) Hi Jump Kick vs 252HP/252Def Slaking (Neutral): 103% - 121% (522 - 614 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.

This could be the counter to slaking I was searching for.

A set:


Cobalion@Lum Berry/Leftovers/Life Orb
Max EVs
Pure Power
Impish Nature (+Def,-SpA)
-Swords Dance/Shift Gear
-Hi Jump Kick
-Bolt Strike/(Any attacking move)
-Recover

 

[verbatim]

252Atk Pure Power Slaking (+Atk) ExtremeSpeed vs 252HP/252Def Cobalion (+Def): 26% - 30% (101 - 119 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.

252Atk Pure Power Slaking (+Atk) Shadow Sneak vs 252HP/252Def Cobalion (+Def): 8% - 10% (34 - 40 HP). Guaranteed 12HKO.

252Atk Pure Power Slaking (+Atk) Ice Shard vs 252HP/252Def Cobalion (+Def): 8% - 10% (34 - 40 HP). Guaranteed 12HKO.

The reason I only calculated for Priority moves is because without priority, Cobalion will hit first. Now, for Cobalion's calcs:

252Atk Pure Power Cobalion (Neutral) Hi Jump Kick vs 252HP/252Def Slaking (Neutral): 103% - 121% (522 - 614 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.

This could be the counter to slaking I was searching for.

A set:


Cobalion@Lum Berry/Leftovers/Life Orb
Max EVs
Pure Power
Impish Nature (+Def,-SpA)
-Swords Dance/Shift Gear
-Hi Jump Kick
-Bolt Strike/(Any attacking move)
-Recover

Interesting set (worth looking at), but it does run into trouble with Blissey. If
you want to keep using boosting moves then change bolt strike to Extreme Speed so that Blisseys that steal your movepool can be walled by a ghost type.

 

[Omnigross266]

Very good idea (Thats why I put "Any attacking move" so people could customize the set). However, if you can predict the switch to Blissey:

252Atk Pure Power Cobalion (Neutral) Hi Jump Kick vs 252HP/252Def Cobalion(Blissey) (+Def): 55.7% - 65.8% (398 - 470 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

Means that if you predict the switch, you can stay in and 2HKO, Recover, boost and sweep.

 

[Imanalt]

Also, run Jolly nature on that set, as Jolly slaking is used on occasion, and will outrun you as is, meaning HJK will rly hurt you.

Other than that, great set, i may try it out

 

[Arcticblast]

But can Cobalion stop Belly Drum Slaking?

This is assuming a Jolly Slaking with an item that doesn't boost damage - Life Orb numbers are sure to be higher. In addition, Impish Cobalion is not holding Leftovers.

With Pure Power (or Huge Power, I guess)
Jolly +6 Slaking ExtremeSpeed vs Impish Cobalion: 94.82% - 111.92% -68.75% chance to OHKO This number also applies to Tinted Lens, but I've never seen a Tinted Lens Slaking.
Jolly +6 Slaking Mach Punch vs Impish Cobalion: 126.94% - 149.74% - OHKO

With Scrappy (or any other ability)
Jolly +6 Slaking ExtremeSpeed vs Impish Cobalion: 47.41% - 55.96% - 2-3HKO
Jolly +6 Slaking Mach Punch vs Impish Cobalion: 63.73% - 75.13% - 2HKO

Meanwhile...
Impish Pure Power Cobalion ExtremeSpeed vs 255 HP/255 Def Slaking: 21.23% - 25.2% - 4-5HKO
Bold Vacuum Wave does about the same amount. I didn't calculate Mach Punch, but you have HJK.

The fact that Cobalion always survives Scrappy Slaking's +6 Extremespeed is amazing, but I don't think it makes Cobalion a perfect counter to Slaking. A damn good check, but not a counter.

 

[Skyshayde]

Sturdy shedinja should really be banned xD, first time without one and i got swept by one.

 

[Arcticblast]

Use a Mold Breaker Pokemon or find a way to keep hazards on the field. Or use Sandstorm / Hail.

 

[Skyshayde]

Use a Mold Breaker Pokemon or find a way to keep hazards on the field. Or use Sandstorm / Hail.

Or have Icicle spear/Other multi hitting moves, hazards won't do anything if it leads. It's just really annoying.

 

[AOPSUser]

Or have Icicle spear/Other multi hitting moves, hazards won't do anything if it leads. It's just really annoying.

Icicle Spear and other multi-hitting moves don't work because Sturdy will trigger on each hit, since Shedinja has only 1 HP.

 

[Skyshayde]

Icicle Spear and other multi-hitting moves don't work because Sturdy will trigger on each hit, since Shedinja has only 1 HP.

idk, worked for me?

Edit: nvm, must've been a glitch

 

[DDRMaster]

idk, worked for me?

That must be a glitch on PS then. That's the main reason I don't want to get into this. There's too many glitches for me to have fun.

 

[akela]

Put glitches are half the fun. Unpredictability is what makes Hackmons Hackmons.

 

[verbatim]

idk, worked for me?

Edit: nvm, must've been a glitch

Can you provide logs/duplicate this for me, because I've explained that it doesn't work to people after they tried it on my Shedinja?

 

[Skyshayde]

Can you provide logs/duplicate this for me, because I've explained that it doesn't work to people after they tried it on my Shedinja?

I'd do it, but I'm to lazy to keep logs so I don't have them, if it happens again i'll log it though.

 

[Omnigross266]

But can Cobalion stop Belly Drum Slaking?

This is assuming a Jolly Slaking with an item that doesn't boost damage - Life Orb numbers are sure to be higher. In addition, Impish Cobalion is not holding Leftovers.

With Pure Power (or Huge Power, I guess)
Jolly +6 Slaking ExtremeSpeed vs Impish Cobalion: 94.82% - 111.92% -68.75% chance to OHKO This number also applies to Tinted Lens, but I've never seen a Tinted Lens Slaking.
Jolly +6 Slaking Mach Punch vs Impish Cobalion: 126.94% - 149.74% - OHKO

With Scrappy (or any other ability)
Jolly +6 Slaking ExtremeSpeed vs Impish Cobalion: 47.41% - 55.96% - 2-3HKO
Jolly +6 Slaking Mach Punch vs Impish Cobalion: 63.73% - 75.13% - 2HKO

Meanwhile...
Impish Pure Power Cobalion ExtremeSpeed vs 255 HP/255 Def Slaking: 21.23% - 25.2% - 4-5HKO
Bold Vacuum Wave does about the same amount. I didn't calculate Mach Punch, but you have HJK.

The fact that Cobalion always survives Scrappy Slaking's +6 Extremespeed is amazing, but I don't think it makes Cobalion a perfect counter to Slaking. A damn good check, but not a counter.

Thanks for the feedback and the great calcs. I don't think that +6 Pure Power Slaking has any true counters, but I was aiming for a good check because I have been swept by it before.

Hopefully, you can switch Cobalion in before Slaking Belly Drums, giving you an easy win. If not, Prankster Deoxys-S with a Focus Sash passing Defense boosts could work.

 

[DDRMaster]

Thanks for the feedback and the great calcs. I don't think that +6 Pure Power Slaking has any true counters, but I was aiming for a good check because I have been swept by it before.

Hopefully, you can switch Cobalion in before Slaking Belly Drums, giving you an easy win. If not, Prankster Deoxys-S with a Focus Sash passing Defense boosts could work.

How would Prankster+Baton Pass help? Extremespeed would hit before Deoxys-S gets the Baton Pass off due to higher priority.

 

[Bugdomking]

It looks so cool! Sap Sipper Swampert, Flash Fire Scizor and Motor Drive Gyarados sound awesome, but don't seem viable in the uberized metagame. Any thought to a non-über tier, underpowered hackmons, perhaps?

 

[windwolf777]

In pure HM an elec type with wonder guard, leech seed, and balloon and any kind of residual damage is pure win. I personally refer Jolteon

 

[zyrefredric]

I still can't figure ou how to play Hackmons. The Pokemon Showdown site as linked in the op is always "down for maintenance", but it seems other people have no problem accessing it. T_T

Anyways, can somebody tell me if Skill Link is a viable ability in this metagame? or is it just a waste? I've always wanted to test it out, if only I could log in.

 

[jamashawalker]

In pure HM an elec type with wonder guard, leech seed, and balloon and any kind of residual damage is pure win. I personally refer Jolteon

Any pokemon with mold breaker destroys this set or any pokemon with whirlwind. Anyways I dont wanna bash on pure Hackmons but it is almost a joke tier where almost everyone is weak to Mold Breaker. Or easily stalled out by Prankster+Copycat+Whirlwind. Everyone just tries to use sheer cold +No Gaurd or Wondergaurd in some way but its just easily destoryed.

It looks so cool! Sap Sipper Swampert, Flash Fire Scizor and Motor Drive Gyarados sound awesome, but don't seem viable in the uberized metagame. Any thought to a non-über tier, underpowered hackmons, perhaps?

I agree I would like an underpowered tier, but that would be hard to set up. Because people will still run the same sets just with different pokes. The only reason giratina has such a high usage is because its the bulkiest pokemon in the game. And if we had an underpowered tier people would just use the next bulkiest pokemon with the same sets as giratina.

Anyways, can somebody tell me if Skill Link is a viable ability in this metagame? or is it just a waste? I've always wanted to test it out, if only I could log in.

I would say yes and no. Depends on who is using it. Substitute is a major factor in this metagame. Probably the most used move in this tier. But most pokes that are used to counter a pokemon behind a sub have better abilities to choose from. Thats why the emphasis is dependent on who has the stats and power and typing to forgoe whatever their better ability is for skill link.