-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
NU Permanent Weather Starter Experiment (updated with part 2)
- Thread starter LibraSnakes13
- Start date
- Status
Just a quick update: I decided to schedule two tournys to expand the amount of people who might be interested. The first one is this Wednesday the 28th at 9:00 pm EST (eastern standard time for America) while the second one is this Friday the 30th at 2:00 pm EST. If you're interested please show up to Pokemon Showdown 15 minutes before it starts to register.
Anyways, I'm really like what I'm seeing so far! A lot of good ideas are being thrown out and I hope you or other readers might use them. I'll remain neutral and not say the ones I like but I'll add more analysis to this post later on after the tourny. Thanks for your interest!
Anyways, I'm really like what I'm seeing so far! A lot of good ideas are being thrown out and I hope you or other readers might use them. I'll remain neutral and not say the ones I like but I'll add more analysis to this post later on after the tourny. Thanks for your interest!
This is officially the best drought NU pokemon. no doubts about it.
Amoonguss @ leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 140 Def / 116 SpD
Nature: Bold
Ability: Drought
~ Giga Drain
~ Hp Fire/Clear Smog
~ Synthesis
~ Spore
You guys forgot that grass types are the besttest in drought.
Take amoonguss for example.
1) It has access to a 100% accurate sleep move. This allows the mushroom to cripple incoming weather starters.
2) Massive bulk. 114/70/80 is better than most pokes. (really damn bulky. Ferrothorn level)
3) Great typing. Not weak to stealth rock, absorbs toxic spikes, immune to toxic,resists fighting, grass/poison is just so good!
4)Reliable recovery. Synthesis is more than reliable, actually, as it heals 66% health in sunlight. and with its ability, it will always be able to heal 66%. If a weather changer comes in, use giga drain and hp fire to kill those watertype drizzlers and rock types sandstreamers and ice type snow warningers....
BEST POKEMON EVER
Amoonguss @ leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 140 Def / 116 SpD
Nature: Bold
Ability: Drought
~ Giga Drain
~ Hp Fire/Clear Smog
~ Synthesis
~ Spore
You guys forgot that grass types are the besttest in drought.
Take amoonguss for example.
1) It has access to a 100% accurate sleep move. This allows the mushroom to cripple incoming weather starters.
2) Massive bulk. 114/70/80 is better than most pokes. (really damn bulky. Ferrothorn level)
3) Great typing. Not weak to stealth rock, absorbs toxic spikes, immune to toxic,resists fighting, grass/poison is just so good!
4)Reliable recovery. Synthesis is more than reliable, actually, as it heals 66% health in sunlight. and with its ability, it will always be able to heal 66%. If a weather changer comes in, use giga drain and hp fire to kill those watertype drizzlers and rock types sandstreamers and ice type snow warningers....
BEST POKEMON EVER
Often times, the best user is the one that receives no boosts from it. Remember, Pokemon teams consist of more than 1 member. One of my favorite drought users is Feraligatr. So many people counter drought with water...
Hypno would be a decent Drought user, Sun boosted Fire Punch for Bugs, Grass and Steels, Drain Punch recovery and Darks and Normals, STAB Zen Headbutt or Psycho Cut and then Utility from Wish, Screens, Hypnosis, Thunder Wave or Toxic! Would counter Ferrothorn super well and a few other walls :) Also once Sun is set up he could Skill Swap for something else, like Natural Cure or Iron Barbs etc!
Not to double post but I thought of another! I am way too excited about this!
Drough Torkoal, weakens Water damage which is his weakness, STAB Fire Blast or Overheat for Ferrothorn, Solarbeam for bulky Water, Rock and Ground which usually set up! Protect/Rest for survival or Yawn to force a switch and Stealth Rock for setting up! Will O Wisp for utility and you can use him to switch in and out to reapply sun as you Rapid Spin!
Drough Torkoal, weakens Water damage which is his weakness, STAB Fire Blast or Overheat for Ferrothorn, Solarbeam for bulky Water, Rock and Ground which usually set up! Protect/Rest for survival or Yawn to force a switch and Stealth Rock for setting up! Will O Wisp for utility and you can use him to switch in and out to reapply sun as you Rapid Spin!
For sun and rain you guys are really off base. You guys really need to look at what pokemon are: not weak to stealth rock, not weak to pursuit, is bulky, and loses a weakness in whatever weather or resists the boosted weather.
For example, Amoongus is great in rain. It is super bulky, has spore, and loses its fire weakness. Specially Defensive Regirock is great in sun, resisting the boosted flareblitzs and fireblasts. Regirock is actually a great pick in general, getting boosted Sp. Def in sand. For hail, it seems like Alomomola would be good. It could be a good basis for a stall team.
For example, Amoongus is great in rain. It is super bulky, has spore, and loses its fire weakness. Specially Defensive Regirock is great in sun, resisting the boosted flareblitzs and fireblasts. Regirock is actually a great pick in general, getting boosted Sp. Def in sand. For hail, it seems like Alomomola would be good. It could be a good basis for a stall team.
Um... I don't kbow what amoongus you are looking at, but the one I see has 114/70/80 defensive stats... On par with ferro in what way, exactly? Seems more on par with victini or jirachi (though jirachi sports far better typing)
Ferrothorn and forry and deo d have bulk considerable to ferrothorns... saying the same about non-blissey hp 70/80 is simply an insult
umm yes... that is the amoonguss i am looking at, as you can see, i actually posted the same exact stats in my original post. you say 114/70/80 isnt bulky?
you must be mistaken.
that might not be as much as ferrothorn, but does ferrothorn get instant 66 percent recovery?
amoonguss's bulk is on par with jellicent to a degree and is basically the same bulk as swampert, with arguably better typing AND reliable recovery.
who says swampert isnt bulky?
also... amoonguss has spore.
spore+good bulk+recovery=beast
you must be mistaken.
that might not be as much as ferrothorn, but does ferrothorn get instant 66 percent recovery?
amoonguss's bulk is on par with jellicent to a degree and is basically the same bulk as swampert, with arguably better typing AND reliable recovery.
who says swampert isnt bulky?
also... amoonguss has spore.
spore+good bulk+recovery=beast
Recovery power does not matter if it is OHKO'd.
Praising its power and being the best for Drizzle is all right. But I do not think it is the best answer. All your opponent needs is a faster Pokemon with Hurricane. Your Amoonguss is done. And I include Hurricane on all my weather teams.
Let's see, Amoonguss has 30 Speed. 56 with Pidgey. 71 with Pidgeotto. 91 with Pidgeot. 65 with Pelipper. 50 with Ducklett. 98 with Swanna. Tornadus with 111. Volcarona with 100. Ignoring Tornadus and Volcarona of the OU tier, all the others are NU and lower. They all outspeed Amoonguss and have Hurricane. 100% accurate 120 BP move with 30% of confusing you if it doesn't outright kill you. Flying Gem on any of them would get the job done.
Amoonguss would need to be armed with Focus Sash to guarantee your claims.
Again, some of the best users are the ones that reap no benefits or detriments from it. With Sun, you want someone who is not weak to Fire or Grass. With Rain, you want someone who is not weak to Water, Electric, or Flying. With Sandstorm, you want someone who is not weak to Rock, Steel, or Ground. With Hail, you want someone who is not weak to Ice.
Praising its power and being the best for Drizzle is all right. But I do not think it is the best answer. All your opponent needs is a faster Pokemon with Hurricane. Your Amoonguss is done. And I include Hurricane on all my weather teams.
Let's see, Amoonguss has 30 Speed. 56 with Pidgey. 71 with Pidgeotto. 91 with Pidgeot. 65 with Pelipper. 50 with Ducklett. 98 with Swanna. Tornadus with 111. Volcarona with 100. Ignoring Tornadus and Volcarona of the OU tier, all the others are NU and lower. They all outspeed Amoonguss and have Hurricane. 100% accurate 120 BP move with 30% of confusing you if it doesn't outright kill you. Flying Gem on any of them would get the job done.
Amoonguss would need to be armed with Focus Sash to guarantee your claims.
Again, some of the best users are the ones that reap no benefits or detriments from it. With Sun, you want someone who is not weak to Fire or Grass. With Rain, you want someone who is not weak to Water, Electric, or Flying. With Sandstorm, you want someone who is not weak to Rock, Steel, or Ground. With Hail, you want someone who is not weak to Ice.
Focus Sash Amoongus?
Kyurem Blizzard vs 252/252+ Amoongus = 75.46% - 89.35%
Why...? There's a reason this thing is thought of so highly by 1337 DW players, where it sees more use than Venusaur, Blissey and even Salamence (and don't tell me that it's because of Regeneration because that point is moot when you're using Drought on it anyway!).
Kyurem Blizzard vs 252/252+ Amoongus = 75.46% - 89.35%
Why...? There's a reason this thing is thought of so highly by 1337 DW players, where it sees more use than Venusaur, Blissey and even Salamence (and don't tell me that it's because of Regeneration because that point is moot when you're using Drought on it anyway!).
Kecleon@Leftovers
Drought/Drizzle/Snow Warning
Relaxed
252HP, 252Sp. Def, 4Atk/S.Atk
~Recover
~Fake Out/Stealth Rock/Magic Coat
~Thunder Wave/Toxic
~Shadow Sneak/Sucker Punch/Flamethrower/Thunder/Blizzard
Without a potentially crippling ability, Kecleon is able to utilize a solid special bulk and a movepool out the wazoo, and is able to function with all the weathers except sand quite well. Under Drizzle, Kecleon can stall out Magmortar gambling on Focus Misses and possible paralysis along with Leftovers. Kecleon can also set up Stealth Rock, run priority, and make use of weather boosted attacks, albeit not always efficiently due to a fairly low Special Attack stat.
Drought/Drizzle/Snow Warning
Relaxed
252HP, 252Sp. Def, 4Atk/S.Atk
~Recover
~Fake Out/Stealth Rock/Magic Coat
~Thunder Wave/Toxic
~Shadow Sneak/Sucker Punch/Flamethrower/Thunder/Blizzard
Without a potentially crippling ability, Kecleon is able to utilize a solid special bulk and a movepool out the wazoo, and is able to function with all the weathers except sand quite well. Under Drizzle, Kecleon can stall out Magmortar gambling on Focus Misses and possible paralysis along with Leftovers. Kecleon can also set up Stealth Rock, run priority, and make use of weather boosted attacks, albeit not always efficiently due to a fairly low Special Attack stat.
For Drought, someone said a while ago that Torterra should have it, maybe Slowbro. I would have to agree with this. Torterra is extremely bulky, has pseudo-reliable recovery in Leech Seed, as well as Synthesis. Jumpluff, too, would be nice, although weak to SR.
For Sand Storm I would propose a mon like, say, Mawile. Resistant to SR and Toxic Spikes, although it stillt akes damage from Spikes. I also like Mawile having Sand Storm just because I always liked Mawile as a mon, but it just never compared to anything outside of the NU tier. If anybody has a better idea, please tell. I was thinking Cradily or Claydol, however the latter being RU.
I would agree with Lee in that being Pursuit-weak is never a good thing on a weather starter, however, Mesprit does have U-turn, and as I recall, U-turn is not susceptible to Pursuit, I could be wrong, however. I also like his proposal in having Throh have Snow Warning, sounds very nice.
For Sand Storm I would propose a mon like, say, Mawile. Resistant to SR and Toxic Spikes, although it stillt akes damage from Spikes. I also like Mawile having Sand Storm just because I always liked Mawile as a mon, but it just never compared to anything outside of the NU tier. If anybody has a better idea, please tell. I was thinking Cradily or Claydol, however the latter being RU.
I would agree with Lee in that being Pursuit-weak is never a good thing on a weather starter, however, Mesprit does have U-turn, and as I recall, U-turn is not susceptible to Pursuit, I could be wrong, however. I also like his proposal in having Throh have Snow Warning, sounds very nice.
ElectivireRocks
Banned deucer.
Drifblim could be a potentially good offensive Drizzle user since it gets Weather Ball and Thunder. It's SR and Pursuit weak but it does have a nice set of resistances/immunities as well as Spikes/TS immunity.
While I think this was very interesting and certainly fun to participate in, what I would like to see is how perma-weather would affect the NU metagame, rather than how an NU Pokemon would affect the OU metagame. Why not do another set of tourneys with the same idea of changing the ability of an NU pokemon to a perma-weather ability, but still play in NU?
tehy
Banned deucer.
Not that i don't agree, but if i say "It's used because of regeneration", and that point IS moot because of drought, then i've just removed, in my mind, the only reason to use it. Granted, regenerator does make amonguss a lot better, but as a weather starter it's pretty damn great anyhow, with spore making up for no offensive power.
well amoonguss, actually has spore and 66% instant recovery, which is just as nice.
- Status