Gen V Balanced Hackmons

[firecape]

Just covering my bases. I ran into a Registeel with Magic Bounce + Roar and I didn't even have a chance until I put in Ho-Oh. (I actually had Flash Fire Registeel in its place lol)

 

[AfroThunderRule]

Wait, wait, wait, wait. Pure/Huge Power is banned from balanced hackmon? Ugh, how lame. (And this is someone who never even used Pure Power Slaking/Regigigas)

 

[nyph]

Wait, wait, wait, wait. Pure/Huge Power is banned from balanced hackmon? Ugh, how lame. (And this is someone who never even used Pure Power Slaking/Regigigas)

Pure power was/is (still not updated) way too powerful. Slaking 2hkoing giratina with an 80BP non-stab move is a bit much, with shift gear it makes an ohko. Same deal with terrakion and dialga, ohkos left right and centre. Next to nobody used special sweepers (apart from stored power) as pure power made similar physical sweepers just that much better.
The loss of pure power can only really diversify the metagame as abilities like illusion, sheer force or multitype that were mostly overlooked before are now actually viable as now you don't miss out on the before-manditory pure power because it's banned anyway.

 

[Cyberspeed]

I go away for three days for a 21'rst party, and the whole meta changes.

 

[theBEEZ KNEEZ]

YAY.........Scrappy slaking makes a comeback ;)

 

[Skyshayde]

I'm doing a tournament

Signup is http://challonge.com/tournaments/signup/tzfdgkbizv

A Challonge account is required so you can coordinate you're battles.

'Tis Double Elim

The banlist will not change in the middle of the tournament.

If the tournament get's enough participants, i'll bump the amount of players up.

If I forgot anything, wait 30 minutes and read this post again

 

[forestflamerunner]

I was wondering if the Hackmon Community would like to organize and create a Hackmon introductory article that could potentially be put up on the smogon site. If we make Hackmon’s presence more well known, I believe we can make newcomers to Smogon immediately interested in Hackmons. I personally just found out about the server days ago and I am already in love. However, I’ve figured out the hard way that hackmon is a very difficult metagame to get into as a rookie because there are just so many options available; you get to customize literally everything but the stats and typing. with that being said, if beginners are given a crash course on the meta in the form of a descriptive article, more people would join the fun, and the more people join, the more sets that can be discovered which creates more diversity in the metagame. If we are interested in such an endeavor, we can then organize a method to gather all the information that we should put into the article and then work on polishing the article so that it truly eases newcomers into the hackmon meta.

 

[Skyshayde]

I was wondering if the Hackmon Community would like to organize and create a Hackmon introductory article that could potentially be put up on the smogon site. If we make Hackmon’s presence more well known, I believe we can make newcomers to Smogon immediately interested in Hackmons. I personally just found out about the server days ago and I am already in love. However, I’ve figured out the hard way that hackmon is a very difficult metagame to get into as a rookie because there are just so many options available; you get to customize literally everything but the stats and typing. with that being said, if beginners are given a crash course on the meta in the form of a descriptive article, more people would join the fun, and the more people join, the more sets that can be discovered which creates more diversity in the metagame. If we are interested in such an endeavor, we can then organize a method to gather all the information that we should put into the article and then work on polishing the article so that it truly eases newcomers into the hackmon meta.

I've been working on one.

http://piratepad.net/CfeoTLkBkY

Add sets and Descriptions

Edit:

JOIN DA TOURNAMENT ALREADY

 

[Skyshayde]

I've been trying to create a viable stall team. With such a wide variety of threats to cover it hasn't been easy, but so many people in this thread seem to just cast off stall. They see something that can use a 180 BP move and increase 3 stats in one turn, jizz, and call it a day. I wanna prove that stall is just as viable, but I haven't had time to do much more than theorymon it. Not much activity on ladder so :/. This is obviously made post-Pure Power.

Here's the team so far:

Hide

Slaking @ Life Orb
Trait: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- ExtremeSpeed
- Pursuit
- Rapid Spin

Slaking is a great anti-lead. Magic Bounce + Rapid Spin may seem a bit overkill, but I NEED Stealth Rock off the field to be effective. Also, Slaking easily causes switches, allowing me to sneak an unexpected Rapid Spin in (in theory...).

Lugia @ Leftovers
Trait: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Roost
- Toxic
- Substitute
- Whirlwind

Lugia is kinda useless but I need a Pokemon to sponge strong physical Dragon attacks (even if they are a bit rare). I also need an extremely bulky Pokemon that can check a wide variety of stat-up sweepers (Slaking can't 2HKO with Crunch and this outspeeds, for instance). STAB Outrage (I know not many people use it but just for the sake of a calc) off of 150 Attack with a Life Orb does 45.5% - 54% to Lugia, and there are no physical Dragons that outspeed it. Like I said, this is probably the least useful member of this team, so open to suggestions. I was thinking maybe a Mold Breaker mon with Toxic to fuck over Magic Guard/Bounce but dunno. Lugia is kinda like a panic-fodder bulky as hell Pokemon that can be sent out if something gets tons of boosts, but Magic Guard/Bounce makes it more of a liability, I guess. I might throw on Rapid Spin or something with Rapid Spin if keeping them off the field with just Slaking becomes hard (but I haven't played many games so I haven't needed it yet).

Giratina @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Bold Nature
- Protect
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Roar

Toxic Orb + Poison Heal is a great combo and ensures Giratina stays annoying throughout the battle. This moveset is annoying as fuck on Gliscor, and even moreso on the fat dragon. The fact that Giratina is poisoned throughout the battle also means it can absorb Spore. This set is really not dependent on Giratina's typing so if I find that I desperately need typing x I can switch it. For instance, if Soul Dew Latios becomes extremely common I can switch this to Blissey using a similar set.

Giratina @ Lum Berry / Choice Scarf
Trait: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Perish Song
- Substitute / Trick
- Recover
- Toxic Spikes

I was thinking of maybe throwing trick over Sub and adding a Scarf but dunno... It does get Roared out quite a bit and I could potentially stop that with Trick but Substitute is useful too. Toxic Spikes seems out of place but it is probably what makes Giratina so deadly. Shadow Tag + Toxic Spikes means I am almost guaranteed to get up 2 layers to fuck over Magic Bounce Pokemon. I can also trap Rapid Spinners with this guy :).

Ho-Oh @ Lum Berry
Trait: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Recover
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock

This is my contrary and Steel-Pokemon-who-I-can't-Perish-Trap counter. I know I should probably just use V-Create but those defense drops scare me because Ho-Oh is so crucial to this team and already liable due to Stealth Rock.
Incase you are wondering "how":
Sacred Fire vs Impish Registeel 48.4% - 57.7%
Reshiram Draco Meteor (LO Neutral Nature) 41.8% - 49.3%
Reshiram Overheat in sun (LO Neutral Nature) 31.3% - 36.8%
Reshiram V-Create in sun (Neutral Nature) 42.1% - 49.8%

In the sun, V-Create with LO does 2HKO, but hopefully by that point I have either SR/Toxic Spikes down, and can try to let it kill itself with prediction. THinking of throwing Rain Dance or the like on one of my Pokemon for this reason, but I have absolutely no clue how common Sun is so :/. Latios with Soul Dew and Contrary does 2HKO this as well, but Slaking can revenge Latios. Flash Fire steels are easily taken down by Arceus or Giratina. Not many people expect a Ho-Oh that sets up hazards, so I rarely get Magic Bounced (given I haven't played many games). This is the reason I need Rapid Spin, too.

Arceus @ Lum Berry
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Recover
- Perish Song
- Mean Look
- Heart Swap / Taunt

This is my wildcard check for wildcard Pokemon. Arceus's great bulk and Speed allow it to Mean Look something before they know what hit them, and then its obvious from there. I don't know what I want in the last slot. Heart Swap and Taunt both look really nice for different reasons, but I haven't been able to test it enough to find out which one I like more (Leaning towards Taunt right now).

Things I have tried and discarded:
Aromatherapy. It seems great on paper, but 4 things: 1) If imposter Blissey gets it I can say goodbye to all the Pokemon I have poisoned. 2) I had a really hard time finding a moveslot for it 3) It would heal Giratina's Poison and leave me with nothing to absorb a spore if Slaking is dead or the spore user has Mold Breaker (quite possible) 4) and finally, only 1 of my Pokemon can be hit with Spore by surprise. Only Lugia doesn't have Lum Berry, and it is pretty fast and has Substitute so not too worried there. Another little note is if I don't start seeing more Pokemon with Spore I'm going to start replacing the Lum Berries with Lefties...

Tell me what you think ;o

I ran into a really annoying Poison Heal Toxic Orb Psycho Shift cress a few weeks ago...

Anyway, i have a trolly stall team to :P

 

[akela]

Caught an interesting virus. Wiped out only my Pokemon folder, where I kept all my teams. Had to do my monthly cookie clean-out. Only found out about the virus after I cleaned out my cookies. Trying to rebuild 8 teams from memory is not as easy as it sounds.

Anyways, my new BH team:

Hide

Galvantula @ Leftovers
Trait: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- U-turn
- Bug Buzz
- Electroweb
- Toxic

Giratina @ Leftovers
Trait: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Careful Nature
- Toxic
- Shadow Ball
- Foul Play
- Heart Swap

Darmanitan @ Leftovers
Trait: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Heart Swap
- Nasty Plot
- Swords Dance
- Ice Shard

Cloyster @ Life Orb
Trait: Skill Link
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Bold Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Arm Thrust
- Rock Blast
- Rapid Spin

Deoxys @ Leftovers
Trait: Scrappy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- ExtremeSpeed
- Swords Dance
- Psystrike
- Heal Order

Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Trait: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Ice Beam
- Flamethrower
- Sludge Wave
- Dragon Pulse

Any suggestions for me to change and improve the team? I don't see the point of including a Prankstermon, since I am always outsped and OHKO'd by everything.

 

[Skyshayde]

Caught an interesting virus. Wiped out only my Pokemon folder, where I kept all my teams. Had to do my monthly cookie clean-out. Only found out about the virus after I cleaned out my cookies. Trying to rebuild 8 teams from memory is not as easy as it sounds.

Anyways, my new BH team:

Hide

Galvantula @ Leftovers
Trait: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- U-turn
- Bug Buzz
- Electroweb
- Toxic

Giratina @ Leftovers
Trait: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Careful Nature
- Toxic
- Shadow Ball
- Foul Play
- Heart Swap

Darmanitan @ Leftovers
Trait: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Heart Swap
- Nasty Plot
- Swords Dance
- Ice Shard

Cloyster @ Life Orb
Trait: Skill Link
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Bold Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Arm Thrust
- Rock Blast
- Rapid Spin

Deoxys @ Leftovers
Trait: Scrappy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- ExtremeSpeed
- Swords Dance
- Psystrike
- Heal Order

Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Trait: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Ice Beam
- Flamethrower
- Sludge Wave
- Dragon Pulse

Any suggestions for me to change and improve the team? I don't see the point of including a Prankstermon, since I am always outsped and OHKO'd by everything.

1sec, i'll edit in some tips in a moment

Hide

Galvantula @ Leftovers
Trait: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- U-turn
- Bug Buzz
- Electroweb
- Toxic

Galvantula isn't good. It's frail, and it's Offense isn't good.

Giratina @ Leftovers
Trait: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Careful Nature
- Toxic
- Shadow Ball
- Foul Play
- Heart Swap
Giratina shouldn't be attacking with shadow ball, if you want an attacking pokemon use Gira-O. Foul Play is nice.

Darmanitan @ Leftovers
Trait: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Heart Swap
- Nasty Plot
- Swords Dance
- Ice Shard
Contrary+Swords Dance=wut?

I'd recommend you switch it out for

Mewtwo @ Life Orb
Trait: Contrary
Modest
- Psycho Boost
- Draco Meteor
- Leaf Storm
- Overheat

Cloyster @ Life Orb
Trait: Skill Link
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Bold Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Arm Thrust
- Rock Blast
- Rapid Spin

Deoxys @ Leftovers
Trait: Scrappy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- ExtremeSpeed
- Swords Dance
- Psystrike
- Heal Order

Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Trait: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Ice Beam
- Flamethrower
- Sludge Wave
- Dragon Pulse

 

[tednugent1]

forestflamerunner: BH isn't really that complicated of a metagame at the moment. It basically revolves around Deoxys-S/A, Giratina, and Shedinja, with Reshiram and other Ubers thrown in for good measure. It's hard to adjust to at first, but you'll quickly get the hang of it.

 

[akela]

1sec, i'll edit in some tips in a moment

Hide

Darmanitan @ Leftovers
Trait: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Heart Swap
- Nasty Plot
- Swords Dance
- Ice Shard
Contrary+Swords Dance=wut?

I'd recommend you switch it out for

Mewtwo @ Life Orb
Trait: Contrary
Modest
- Psycho Boost
- Draco Meteor
- Leaf Storm
- Overheat

Yeah, I need to choose a different one with Darmy. However, your equation is incomplete. Contrary + Stat Booster + Heart Swap = jerk.

 

[verbatim]

No. Yes that combination does achieve an end for you, but it is a horrid one when compared to the fact that you could simply be killing things.

 

[tehy]

Contrary plus heart swap seems like a hilarious and possibly good combination, but why on Darminitan of all pokemon? The non-zen version has no real bulk, so even at minus two things will be killing it in the face. And it's not like it has great defensive typing either. At least stick that on, like, chansey or something? Then we can see how good it actually is.

Come to think of it, a bunch of those sets make no sense. THIS IS BALANCED HACKMONS. YOU CAN GIVE A BULKIER OR STRONGER POKEMON THOSE SAME MOVES.

 

[akela]

No. Yes that combination does achieve an end for you, but it is a horrid one when compared to the fact that you could simply be killing things.

What would you suggest then? What am I doing wrong?

Contrary plus heart swap seems like a hilarious and possibly good combination, but why on Darminitan of all pokemon? The non-zen version has no real bulk, so even at minus two things will be killing it in the face. And it's not like it has great defensive typing either. At least stick that on, like, chansey or something? Then we can see how good it actually is.

I made a mistake with Darmanitan. I admit it.

Come to think of it, a bunch of those sets make no sense. THIS IS BALANCED HACKMONS. YOU CAN GIVE A BULKIER OR STRONGER POKEMON THOSE SAME MOVES.

*Looks back at post explaining my sets were all deleted and I have no way to recover them*

What sets do not make sense and what would be your suggestions of changes I should make?

 

[tehy]

The cloyster set, for one. Stab icicle spear can be found on other things, with higher base attacks. All cloyster has is that ridiculous defense stat/stab icicle spear, but the atrocious special defense, and average attack and speed sort of render that not that important.

As the above person said, galvantula is terrible. Especially with those moves.

Giving Deoxys psystrike is also terrible-if you want to hit physical defense with a psychic-type attack, use Psycho cut/zen headbutt and if you want to mixed wallbreak, psychic/psycho boost is where its at. That's even assuming you want to use a psychic-type attack, when you should really be using sacred fire or the like.

Hydreigon does not need sludge wave. Ever. Also, why ice beam-you already beat down dragons and grass-types. The only really relevant flying type is ho-oh, and it's neutral to it. You may or may not want to consider draco meteor, as well.

Foul play and heart swap together are kind of silly. Against special attackers, foul play does little. Against physical ones, it's preferable to steal the boosts, then counter with a strong attack off of your boosts. Foul play is one of the few physical moves that can't accomplish that. I'd also recommend something different instead of toxic, but that's not terrible.

Finally, nothing has spore. Not sure what you'd fit it on, but even in a metagame prepared for it, spore is awesome.

 

[Cyberspeed]

Swap Hydreigon out for something like Latios,Palkia or Dialga.I mean you aren't even using his other stab so there really isn't a reason to use him over the others as they have better offensive Stats.Also change Dragon pulse to Draco Meteor or Spacial Rend.
Skyshade,when will the tournament be?

 

[Skyshayde]

Swap Hydreigon out for something like Latios,Palkia or Dialga.I mean you aren't even using his other stab so there really isn't a reason to use him over the others as they have better offensive Stats.Also change Dragon pulse to Draco Meteor or Spacial Rend.
Skyshade,when will the tournament be?

Once we have enough people, i'll publish a bracket, and everyone PM's, and battle's their opponents.

 

[akela]

Swap Hydreigon out for something like Latios,Palkia or Dialga.I mean you aren't even using his other stab so there really isn't a reason to use him over the others as they have better offensive Stats.Also change Dragon pulse to Draco Meteor or Spacial Rend.
Skyshade,when will the tournament be?

I had Dark typing to counter Stored Power abuse.

Anyways, from the suggestions given, I completely changed the team to something, as a few other players called it, boring.

Hide

Ferrothorn @ Leppa Berry
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Impish Nature
- Recycle
- Recover
- Leech Seed
- Haze

Giratina @ Leftovers
Trait: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Psycho Boost
- Draco Meteor
- Leaf Storm
- Overheat

Giratina @ Leftovers
Trait: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Careful Nature
- Spore
- Thunderbolt
- Foul Play
- Heart Swap

Giratina @ Lum Berry
Trait: Simple
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Copycat
- Whirlwind
- Aura Sphere

Dialga @ Life Orb
Trait: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Flamethrower
- Spacial Rend
- Roar of Time

Dialga @ Leftovers
Trait: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Dragon Pulse
- Heal Order
- Toxic
- Doom Desire

 

[Codraroll]

Could this set work?

Deoxys-D @ Leftovers
Max EVs and IVs
Trait: Shell Armor
- Cotton Guard
- Rest
- Calm Mind/Amnesia
- Psystrike/Psychic/Spacial Rend/Toxic/Whatever

The idea is to come in and take a hit, then set up. Raise defenses to the max, you're immune to Critical Hits and your defensive stats are capable of taking almost anything. Proceed to take hits and shrug them off with Rest.
If you choose to go for Calm Mind, to avoid being complete Taunt bait, you can use your raised Special Attack to wreak some havoc. With Deoxys-D's offensive stats, you won't do much, though.
If going offensive isn't your cup of tea, you can use Toxic or something instead. If you're Taunted, I guess you could... Struggle?

Though, I can see the word "Set-up bait" looming in the distance. Guess staying power isn't worth all that much if you can't do anything other than stay in.

 

[tehy]

Honestly, magic bounce over shell armor. Crits happen, but without magic bounce you can be spored with the greatest of ease.

And to the above, take out roar of time.

 

[Gerard]

Honestly, magic bounce over shell armor. Crits happen, but without magic bounce you can be spored with the greatest of ease.

And to the above, take out roar of time.

Forget Spore, just roar or encore will do it, yeah Magic Bounce it's better, and Deo-D can live one at full health

And you should use Stored Power if any Psychic attack

 

[tehy]

I don't know-i'd take psychic/strike for the instant power, with calm mind if it's being used. That's a pretty good setup sweeper counter, except for rachi/meta

 

[doughboy]

Could this set work?

Deoxys-D @ Leftovers
Max EVs and IVs
Trait: Shell Armor
- Cotton Guard
- Rest
- Calm Mind/Amnesia
- Psystrike/Psychic/Spacial Rend/Toxic/Whatever

The idea is to come in and take a hit, then set up. Raise defenses to the max, you're immune to Critical Hits and your defensive stats are capable of taking almost anything. Proceed to take hits and shrug them off with Rest.
If you choose to go for Calm Mind, to avoid being complete Taunt bait, you can use your raised Special Attack to wreak some havoc. With Deoxys-D's offensive stats, you won't do much, though.
If going offensive isn't your cup of tea, you can use Toxic or something instead. If you're Taunted, I guess you could... Struggle?

Though, I can see the word "Set-up bait" looming in the distance. Guess staying power isn't worth all that much if you can't do anything other than stay in.

You never considered Baton Pass as an option? Baton Pass would let you as least get it to something more offensive that doesn't hit like a little girl. It also mitigates the need to use Rest. The other option I would highly considered is Substitute. Substitute blocks status and critical hits, meaning you can use another ability in place of Shell Armor. I could see it being hard initially considering the power of balanced Hackmons, but really Shell Armor needs to be replaced by Magic Bounce/Simple. for lol's maybe you could have red card in case anything sets up beside you.