Thanks for the feedback; I guess whose sheddy wasn't running it killed was running sash and some other ability for some weird reason.
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Gen V Balanced Hackmons
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So I've been reading through this thread because I am in love with the creativity of this metagame.
However, despite all of the interesting strategies I've seen, I wonder why nobody seems to have messed around with evasion?
INSERT POKEMON
@Leftovers
Moody
-Protect
-Detect/Double Team
-Lucky Chant/Attack
-Attack/Toxic
I obviously haven't fleshed this out very thoroughly, but with Moody and Double Team being banned from regular use due to how game breaking they are I'm wondering why I don't see people trying to use (and abuse >;-) them here?
However, despite all of the interesting strategies I've seen, I wonder why nobody seems to have messed around with evasion?
INSERT POKEMON
@Leftovers
Moody
-Protect
-Detect/Double Team
-Lucky Chant/Attack
-Attack/Toxic
I obviously haven't fleshed this out very thoroughly, but with Moody and Double Team being banned from regular use due to how game breaking they are I'm wondering why I don't see people trying to use (and abuse >;-) them here?
Minimize over Double Team.
You are implying that you can abuse them. Ever hear of No Guard? What about Swift? Aura Sphere? Shadow Punch?
In BH, a lot of the pokemon only need to hit you once to take you out.
Wow, all these years and I never realized Minimize was a 2-Stage boost :nerd:
Anyway, of the four counters you mentioned, it seems to me that only No Guard is seen with any frequency. Since you never come across evasion boosters, you never come across Swift/Aura Sphere/Shadow Punch since there are better moves to use from each of those types
So far, a Minimizer won't have much to fear if they can A) Avoid a quick death before setting up, and B) avoid users of No Guard. So let's stay alive with Protect + Substitute (or maybe sneak Ingrain on there to stay put), and give our pokemon Leftovers and Moody. Att, Def, SpA, SpD, Spe, Acc, and Eva will eventually all reach +6. Note: this is the ability that was banned from UBERS due to the evasion ridiculousness.
Just felt like this would be the proper venue to bring back the headaches >:-)
In addition to what akela said, don't run Protect and Detect together. They operate on the same timer (I think that's the right word), so, once you use one, the next turn both will have the same chance of failing. You'd probably be better off with something like Substitute.
Don't feel bad about not knowing that. It used to be one stage, but Gamefreak changed it in Gen V.
When something becomes common, a counter becomes common. People stopped running No Guard and cannot miss moves because people stopped running evaders.
Did you know that with +6 Evasion, you can still be hit?
Have you ever encountered the move Simple Beam? Worry Seed? Gastro Acid? Heart Swap? What about Imposter Blissey?
Tailwind is a really good move in BH, it basically allows you a 3 turn speed boost that can't be copied by blissey.
Kyurem-Black @ Leftovers
Trait: Tinted Lens
Adamant Nature
- Tailwind
- Outrage
- Icicle Crash / Hi Jump Kick
- U-turn
Life Orb can be used for more power, your coverage move depends on if you want to hit Groudon and Lugia or steels.
Kyurem-Black @ Leftovers
Trait: Tinted Lens
Adamant Nature
- Tailwind
- Outrage
- Icicle Crash / Hi Jump Kick
- U-turn
Life Orb can be used for more power, your coverage move depends on if you want to hit Groudon and Lugia or steels.
Latey I have been using this set:
Groudon@ Lum Berry
Adaptability Adamant
-Rock Polish
-Swords Dance
-Stone Edge
-Earthqauke
Basiclly like a Double Dance Terrakion but much bulkier. With your Lum, you can nearly always set up a rock polish with-out the fear of spores. When you have time, set uo SD and sweep >:D
Groudon@ Lum Berry
Adaptability Adamant
-Rock Polish
-Swords Dance
-Stone Edge
-Earthqauke
Basiclly like a Double Dance Terrakion but much bulkier. With your Lum, you can nearly always set up a rock polish with-out the fear of spores. When you have time, set uo SD and sweep >:D
Use Prankster Groudon with Nature Power instead of Earthquake. You'll outspeed a lot of pokemon, and you'll get essentially an earthquake with more PP.
Well actually, the point of adaptibility is that at +2 i have a chance to OHKO Giritina,so it cant roar me out.
I see. I don't see Copycat Giratina that often. I've encountered more Copycat flyers. Maybe you have had better luck than me.
Why use Double Dance when Shell Smash does the exact same thing in one turn? Or why not at least use Shift Gear over Rock Polish?
SweetTooth (Groudon) @ Leftovers
Trait: Prankster
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Ice Shard
- Nature Power
- Sandstorm
Prankster Groudon is awesome. People set up with sturdy shedinja first turn, or do some like magic coat or the rare safeguard, so sandstorm catches them off guard and KOs. Nature Power is a status move and turns into EQ, so it's STAB +1 priority. So awesome. I've tried it out and it only is countered by ImposterBliss hold a scarf.
I surprised it isn't popular in the metagame!
Partly due to forgetfulness (especially true of the latter), but also because the defense drops from Shell Smash makes priority hurt even more.
One set I've been abusing with great success is this:
Reshiram
Ability: Contrary
Moveset:
- Hammer Arm - destroys Heatran and allows Resh to nab a nice Speed boost.
- Draco Meteor
- Overheat
- (Aura Sphere / Substitute)
The last moveslot is basically pointless, Aura Sphere does more damage to Heatran than Hammer Arm does, and never misses. Sub protects from status (especially those damn Pranksters) and Imposter ScarfBlissey. I generally recommend Subtitute, but in such a fast-paces metagame Aura Sphere's 100% accuracy can come in handy - plus, unlike Hammer Arm, it gets boosted by Draco Meteor and Overheat.
Reshiram
Ability: Contrary
Moveset:
- Hammer Arm - destroys Heatran and allows Resh to nab a nice Speed boost.
- Draco Meteor
- Overheat
- (Aura Sphere / Substitute)
The last moveslot is basically pointless, Aura Sphere does more damage to Heatran than Hammer Arm does, and never misses. Sub protects from status (especially those damn Pranksters) and Imposter ScarfBlissey. I generally recommend Subtitute, but in such a fast-paces metagame Aura Sphere's 100% accuracy can come in handy - plus, unlike Hammer Arm, it gets boosted by Draco Meteor and Overheat.
Use Shift gear then, It's Rock polish and meditate in one move!
Believe me, it;s been talked about. With a choice scarf, it's pretty much the best revenge killer in history (Don't let it copy your boosts, or it will destroy you one by one), while if it copies something as bulky as Lugia, Arceus or Giratina, it becomes a nearly-unbreakable wall.
What about toxic for Study Shed ?
canno
formerly The Reptile
Unless your team has a way to deal with Shedinja, Toxic is a great move, just like windwolf. Alternatively, if you already have an answer, you can run Baton Pass. If you do, you might want to run V-Create over Overheat and Superpower over Hammer Arm so your physical attackers aren't left out of the baton pass greatness. And just as an FYI, no one runs Heatran in Hackmons, the most common Steel-type to have Flash Fire is Steelix iirc, so Superpower/Hammer Arm still works out nicely.
forestflamerunner
Ain't no rest for the wicked
I've personally had a lot of success with this set:
Lugia@leftovers
Arena Trap
Bold Nature
-Persih Song
Recover
Protect
U-Turn
So the basic idea is to switch into something that can't take you out in 2 hits, use perish song and stall out two turns before u- turning out of there. Arena Trap is used over Shadow Tag to trap shadow tag users with this set, while Protect+Recover are used to stall out the neccessary turns before perish song takes effect while also keeping Lugia relatively healthy. Finally U-turn helps me get if my opponent is a shadow tag user, so that I don't go out in flames with them and live to Perish Trap another day!
Lugia@leftovers
Arena Trap
Bold Nature
-Persih Song
Recover
Protect
U-Turn
So the basic idea is to switch into something that can't take you out in 2 hits, use perish song and stall out two turns before u- turning out of there. Arena Trap is used over Shadow Tag to trap shadow tag users with this set, while Protect+Recover are used to stall out the neccessary turns before perish song takes effect while also keeping Lugia relatively healthy. Finally U-turn helps me get if my opponent is a shadow tag user, so that I don't go out in flames with them and live to Perish Trap another day!
Wow Arena trap is really viable to due rare flying types and the never-present
Levitate. The only flying types you can see are Ho-oh, Lugia, and Rayquaza.
So let's get some discussion going on Assist teams.
Are they overpowered enough to warrant banning from the metagame? Personally I feel that they are. I'm not sure how banning them would happen, though;
Ban assist? It's not that good an any other sort of team, but it isn't used apart from Prankster Assists so it's feasible.
Species Clause? Spamming the same mon is half the work of these teams, but a lot of people feel that no species clause is important to the meta (I'm not one of them).
Complex ban such as no Prankster+Assist on the same mon? Probably the most specific method and doesn't encroach onto other strategies.
Are they overpowered enough to warrant banning from the metagame? Personally I feel that they are. I'm not sure how banning them would happen, though;
Ban assist? It's not that good an any other sort of team, but it isn't used apart from Prankster Assists so it's feasible.
Species Clause? Spamming the same mon is half the work of these teams, but a lot of people feel that no species clause is important to the meta (I'm not one of them).
Complex ban such as no Prankster+Assist on the same mon? Probably the most specific method and doesn't encroach onto other strategies.
Want to know why Freeze Shock and Ice Burn were banned? Assist. It skips the charge. So, a 140 BP move that outspeeds everything other than priority moves. Add STAB to it and being used by KW, KB, or Archeops? Yeah. Assist will not be banned. It just needs to be fixed to work like it does in the games. So that it does not skip half of a move.
Baton Pass is a great idea, actually, I might try it ;) V-Create... ehhhh, I prefer having Overheat as there are more reliable pokmeon to pass Physical boosts with.
As for precious Sheddy, I run Sand Stream so I really have nothing to fear. Half my team is harmed by sand but honestly it's such a fast-paced metagame 99% of the time, it tends to do negligible damage to most of my pokemon.
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