At someone's... request, I've registered an IRC for tier shift on SynIRC. So you can visit that to discuss the metagame if you like, or you can try the other metagames IRC, which is also fine.
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Tier Shift Metagame (THIS IS BW)
- Thread starter PureQuestion
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Moltres' Hurricane is beastly. With 135 SpA and Stab, it's the strongest unboosted Hurricane in the game.
Moltres @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Substitute
- Roost
I've been using this on a rain team.
Moltres @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Substitute
- Roost
I've been using this on a rain team.
Looking at some mons I've found Shelgon to be a pretty effective physical wall, while he is not as Physically bulky as Tangela and lacking her awesome tools (namely regenerator, leech seed and sleep powder) it gets a lot of stuff on his own, It's typing is arguably better (It takes on sun a lot better than Tangela and it can take on special hits better), and he can work as a secondary wishpasser for the likes of Chansey and Vaporeon being able to roar to help racking hazards damage, also it has a decent 110 Atk that can do some damage and serves so you don't become taunt bait
@ Eviolite
Trait: Rock Head
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Atk
Impish Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Roar
- Dragon Claw
Trait: Rock Head
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Atk
Impish Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Roar
- Dragon Claw
Tangela gets 591 defense, Shelgon gets 541, but if you want to run a set like that, why not try Dragonair? 14 less base attack but you get 639 base defense with a Marvelscale boost and you can RestTalk+T-Wave+Dragon Tail.Looking at some mons I've found Shelgon to be a pretty effective physical wall, while he is not as Physically bulky as Tangela and lacking her awesome tools (namely regenerator, leech seed and sleep powder) it gets a lot of stuff on his own, It's typing is arguably better (It takes on sun a lot better than Tangela and it can take on special hits better), and he can work as a secondary wishpasser for the likes of Chansey and Vaporeon being able to roar to help racking hazards damage, also it has a decent 110 Atk that can do some damage and serves so you don't become taunt bait
@ Eviolite
Trait: Rock Head
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Atk
Impish Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Roar
- Dragon Claw
Do you mean Marvel Scale? Multiscale is only for Dragonite and Lugia.
I've found that Dragon Tail isn't a great idea in a tier when everything worth using get a nice boost on their bulk, many sub users being able to abuse that your only attack it's dragon tail, also, Wish lets you help your team more, I normally use Tangela in a regenerator team, but when I'm in need of something that resists fire and electric I go for this guy (especially against sun teams it's either this guy or slowbro I end up with)
Surely Overcoat outclasses Rock head when you aren't running any recoil moves?
Or is it not legal?
Or is it not legal?
Parasect got quite a bit of buffs in this meta.
The MVP has to be my Hydration Lapras. Now outclassing Vaporeon in every way, Lapras is my tank to be feared.
Another weather that hasn't been discussed much in this thread is Hail! Besides Kyurem and Glaceon, both of whom have been referred to more than once, Rotom-Frost has a new base SpA of 120, which is certainly worth looking into! Furthermore, it boasts STAB on the famous BoltBeam (or in this case, BoltBlizz) combination, allowing it to (probably) tear through teams with a Choice set or even run a good/decent SubSplit set (65/122/122 defenses aren't bad)! An Expert Belt may also work, allowing Rotom-F to make full use of its coverage.
Then there's Trick Room, which has been mentioned only once in this entire thread. Despite the boost to all Pokemon's speeds, TR should still work because relative speed tiers remain (mostly) the same. Overshadowing old beasts like Conkeldurr are new threats like Escavalier (145 Att), Camerupt (120 SpA + Eruption) and Rampardos (180 Att o_O!). Ursaring (145 Att + Guts) and even Clamperl (89 SpA + DST) are also worth a look! It's surprising that Trick Room has been so neglected in this thread so far.
I've tried out Trick Room and the problem, as people have brought up, everything is exponentially bulkier. Therefore, attempting to sweep in 3-4 turns while TR is up is a ridiculous feat.
It still works, but its pretty hard to use. I have also tried OTR Life Orb Duosion by itself and it is REALLY powerful, but misses out on key OHKOs and lacks any bulk to protect itself.
this is awesome. My favorite derp mons work!
Relicanth: 115/105/145/60/80/70
And it has rock head head smash. CB terrakion close combat never OHKOes max/max, with a neutral nature! It's special bulk is not as phenomenal even with careful nature, but it can take a life orb draco meteor from latias!
Scyther: 80/120/90/65/90/115 (uninvested with eviolite is 324 defenses)
This guy with swords dance/roost/brick break/aerial ace eviolite and technician is scary. You might need a relicanth to beat it!
Golurk: 104/139/95/70/95/70
Golurk is never going to die, for two reasons. 1. His bulk. 2. He will kill everything and nothing will be left to take him down!!
Stoutland: 100/115/105/60/105/95
This could be awesome as now it can always OHKO latios with CB return and such. 95 base speed means he only needs 148 speed EVs with adamant to outspeed scarf latis and gengar. So he can put the rest into his newly added bulk.
Zangoose: 88/130/75/75/75/105
I don't really know how good this will be, but its better i guess?
Throh: 135/115/100/45/100/60
This is too bulky god damn. Specstios draco meteor never 2HKOes SpD bulk up now and psyshock doesn't do crap with bulk up. So this is the new super conkeldurr. I guess this is the new super conkeldurr.
Tauros: 90/115/110/55/85/125
Not bad. Fire blast is a lot better now for the dumb ferrothorns.
Stunfisk: 124/81/99/96/114/47
Nidoqueen with 100/97/95 defenses isn't too shabby either guys.
just use slowbro over duosion. As it is UU its boosts were minimal, but they make it a lot better all around.
Relicanth: 115/105/145/60/80/70
And it has rock head head smash. CB terrakion close combat never OHKOes max/max, with a neutral nature! It's special bulk is not as phenomenal even with careful nature, but it can take a life orb draco meteor from latias!
Scyther: 80/120/90/65/90/115 (uninvested with eviolite is 324 defenses)
This guy with swords dance/roost/brick break/aerial ace eviolite and technician is scary. You might need a relicanth to beat it!
Golurk: 104/139/95/70/95/70
Golurk is never going to die, for two reasons. 1. His bulk. 2. He will kill everything and nothing will be left to take him down!!
Stoutland: 100/115/105/60/105/95
This could be awesome as now it can always OHKO latios with CB return and such. 95 base speed means he only needs 148 speed EVs with adamant to outspeed scarf latis and gengar. So he can put the rest into his newly added bulk.
Zangoose: 88/130/75/75/75/105
I don't really know how good this will be, but its better i guess?
Throh: 135/115/100/45/100/60
This is too bulky god damn. Specstios draco meteor never 2HKOes SpD bulk up now and psyshock doesn't do crap with bulk up. So this is the new super conkeldurr. I guess this is the new super conkeldurr.
Tauros: 90/115/110/55/85/125
Not bad. Fire blast is a lot better now for the dumb ferrothorns.
Stunfisk: 124/81/99/96/114/47
Nidoqueen with 100/97/95 defenses isn't too shabby either guys.
just use slowbro over duosion. As it is UU its boosts were minimal, but they make it a lot better all around.
Throh is good, but Hariyama takes the cake.
154/130/70/50/70/60
Not quite as much special defense, but with Bulk Up he can be a physical monster. But hey, why not use both? Sometime I'll have to try out a mono-fighting team. (Sawk, Throh, Hariyama, Machamp, Gallade, and Poliwrath? Hell yes.)
154/130/70/50/70/60
Not quite as much special defense, but with Bulk Up he can be a physical monster. But hey, why not use both? Sometime I'll have to try out a mono-fighting team. (Sawk, Throh, Hariyama, Machamp, Gallade, and Poliwrath? Hell yes.)
I was going to give Throh's stats until I saw them already listed...it would indeed be a monster, one of the bulkiest in the game. I would definitely use it.
Others of note:
Walrein:
125/95/105/110/105/80
Especially with Thick Fat, Curse, and Earthquake, Walrein would destroy Ninetales. Alongside Abomasnow, its stalling capabilities would be greatly enhanced.
Virizion:
96/95/77/95/134/113
Virizion can now outspeed Terrakion and nuke it with Close Combat. The special defense is also amazing.
Scolipede:
70/100/99/65/79/122
Hello Choice Band STAB Megahorn! Scolipede had its niche in OU of outspeeding the Lati twins and OHKOing with Megahorn, but now it can outspeed Starmie and Gengar! Its great coverage (Megahorn, Rock Slide, Earthquake, Aqua Tail, and Superpower) will allow it to do very well offensively. The defenses are still a bit low for Baton Passing, though.
Serperior:
90/90/110/90/110/128
A great, fast annoyer. Serperior might be the best SubSeeder in this tier due to the speed and defenses. Taunt would also gain popularity on Serperior.
Seismitoad:
120/100/90/100/90/89
Seismitoad suddenly became very bulky. Rain teams will love having it as a tank (Scald/Earthquake/Ice Punch and Grass Knot or Drain Punch sounds nice).
Rotom-S:
65/80/122/120/122/101
Rotom-S will have fun revenge-killing Volacrona and the base 100 Dragons. It now speed ties with Landorus-I as well. The defenses are pretty good too.
Rhydon:
115/140/130/55/55/50
With an Eviolite, Rhydon becomes about as good a physical wall as Regirock! The base 140 attack is in the league of many Uber Pokemon as well.
Cinccino:
85/105/70/75/70/125
Cinccino outspeeds almost everything; plus it will still have Skill Link to destroy the metagame off a buffed up 105 base attack.
Electivire
85/133/77/105/95/105
Mixed sets will become much more viable. With Tailwind at its feet, Electivire can be a nuke via STAB Wild Charge.
Drapion
80/100/120/70/85/105
Drapion becomes more formidable as a physical tank with a good speed.
Cradily
101/96/112/106/122/58
A fantastic wall or tank for Rain and Sandstorm teams, especially with Storm Drain and the typing checking or countering many Rain abusers in OU, such as Jolteon and Ludicolo.
Others of note:
Walrein:
125/95/105/110/105/80
Especially with Thick Fat, Curse, and Earthquake, Walrein would destroy Ninetales. Alongside Abomasnow, its stalling capabilities would be greatly enhanced.
Virizion:
96/95/77/95/134/113
Virizion can now outspeed Terrakion and nuke it with Close Combat. The special defense is also amazing.
Scolipede:
70/100/99/65/79/122
Hello Choice Band STAB Megahorn! Scolipede had its niche in OU of outspeeding the Lati twins and OHKOing with Megahorn, but now it can outspeed Starmie and Gengar! Its great coverage (Megahorn, Rock Slide, Earthquake, Aqua Tail, and Superpower) will allow it to do very well offensively. The defenses are still a bit low for Baton Passing, though.
Serperior:
90/90/110/90/110/128
A great, fast annoyer. Serperior might be the best SubSeeder in this tier due to the speed and defenses. Taunt would also gain popularity on Serperior.
Seismitoad:
120/100/90/100/90/89
Seismitoad suddenly became very bulky. Rain teams will love having it as a tank (Scald/Earthquake/Ice Punch and Grass Knot or Drain Punch sounds nice).
Rotom-S:
65/80/122/120/122/101
Rotom-S will have fun revenge-killing Volacrona and the base 100 Dragons. It now speed ties with Landorus-I as well. The defenses are pretty good too.
Rhydon:
115/140/130/55/55/50
With an Eviolite, Rhydon becomes about as good a physical wall as Regirock! The base 140 attack is in the league of many Uber Pokemon as well.
Cinccino:
85/105/70/75/70/125
Cinccino outspeeds almost everything; plus it will still have Skill Link to destroy the metagame off a buffed up 105 base attack.
Electivire
85/133/77/105/95/105
Mixed sets will become much more viable. With Tailwind at its feet, Electivire can be a nuke via STAB Wild Charge.
Drapion
80/100/120/70/85/105
Drapion becomes more formidable as a physical tank with a good speed.
Cradily
101/96/112/106/122/58
A fantastic wall or tank for Rain and Sandstorm teams, especially with Storm Drain and the typing checking or countering many Rain abusers in OU, such as Jolteon and Ludicolo.
Congratulations on becoming the first Other Metagame of the Month!
I'd like to thank everyone for their incredible support. It's hard to believe my idea has taken off so dramatically.
Cacturne has now become a big contender within the meta;
80/125/70/125/70/65
Sucker Punch becomes a bigger problem for non-Fighting and Dark-type Pokemon, and so does Seed Bomb for non-Ground, Rock or Water-types.
80/125/70/125/70/65
Sucker Punch becomes a bigger problem for non-Fighting and Dark-type Pokemon, and so does Seed Bomb for non-Ground, Rock or Water-types.
Oh god, Durant:
68/119/122/58/58/119
Factor in Hustle and Hone Claws with that giving it a gargantuan 759 Max Neutral Attack stat along with 371 Max+ Speed. So, basically, physical Genesect.
68/119/122/58/58/119
Factor in Hustle and Hone Claws with that giving it a gargantuan 759 Max Neutral Attack stat along with 371 Max+ Speed. So, basically, physical Genesect.
I can personally verify the effectiveness of Stoutland, it's been tearing stuff to pieces on my sand team. Another mon that I think might also be worth a look is:
Whiscash
125/93/88/91/86/75
Whiscash is similar to Lapras in that it learns Dragon Dance and gets Hydration. Although a bit less bulky, Whiscash sports a far superior typing making it easier to switch in multiple times if necessary. Instead of taking 25% from Stealth rocks, it only takes 6% on the switch in. It also only has one weakness (Grass) and some useful resistances to Rock, Electric and Fire. Water/Ground, though not quite as good offensively as Lapras's Water/Ice, is still pretty solid and can be supplemented with a third coverage move like Stone Edge. Whiscash also has a far more powerful secondary STAB move in Earthquake, something Lapras lacks. I think people should take a serious look at this pokemon in this Tier Shift meta, as it could prove to be quite useful like Seismitoad and Lapras have.
Whiscash
125/93/88/91/86/75
Whiscash is similar to Lapras in that it learns Dragon Dance and gets Hydration. Although a bit less bulky, Whiscash sports a far superior typing making it easier to switch in multiple times if necessary. Instead of taking 25% from Stealth rocks, it only takes 6% on the switch in. It also only has one weakness (Grass) and some useful resistances to Rock, Electric and Fire. Water/Ground, though not quite as good offensively as Lapras's Water/Ice, is still pretty solid and can be supplemented with a third coverage move like Stone Edge. Whiscash also has a far more powerful secondary STAB move in Earthquake, something Lapras lacks. I think people should take a serious look at this pokemon in this Tier Shift meta, as it could prove to be quite useful like Seismitoad and Lapras have.
I agree! It's NU status gives it a massive boost and it is just fantastic!
Another thing that gets a great buff in Sand is this set that I have been using:
Regirock @ Leftovers
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def
Calm Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Curse
- Rock Slide
(PS, had to write this from scratch as Showdown! is down, sorry for any mistakes in formatting!)
Okay, first of all, just look at this thing's stat spread:
95 / 115 / 215 / 65 / 115 / 65
THEN, factor in the boost from sandstorm, putting it's Special Defense through the roof, and once it gets a Curse (or two) up (which is easy considering this thing's immense bulk) it becomes a near impenetrable tank, capable of dishing out nice damage with a STAB Rock Slide too. The only thing it really fears is very powerful special attackers outside (or even in in the cases of some ridiculous powerhouses with SE STAB, like Nidoking) of Sandstorm. The biggest problem with the set it that it does rely quite heavily on sand being up, and this hard in this meta because neither OU sand inducer gets stat boosts, and Hippopotas is not incredible, despite it's LC (and not above NU usage wise) status and hence ability to use Eviolite and +15 stats across the board. Despite this, I can see Sand being a very dominant force as this meta develops, not only because Stoutland is fantastic, but because of awesome tanks like Regirock and Cradily (something I also had a lot of fun with on a the ladder!)
Great Meta, PureQuestion, I can see it starting to take off, and I congratualte you for that!
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