Gen 5 The OU Viability Ranking thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
BulkyDos is amazing. Intimidate + that great special defense means it can last quite a while. I've been seeing Stone Edge a lot less lately and electric moves even less. Gyaras usage has sort of dropped so people have stopped preparing for it, which is great news because ripping their team to shreds is even easier. Moxie is decent but I prefer the free switch in Intimidate provides. A
 
Ohi Victini should be B rank (at the least). This bitch is just so strong, let me tell you. You slap a choice band on it and have like one pokemon with u-turn on it and shit is gon go down. For real. You don't even need to care, just spam v-create. They got their politoed? Owell, they'll probably switch; v-create and kill ferrothorn. They got their ferrothorn? Owell, they'll probably switch; v-create and kill anything anyway. They got their any kinda bitch mon? Owell v-create the shit outta that. The best part is that even after a v-create, tini can still outspeed quite a bit, meaning it can easily 2hko those bulky waters and such on the switch. Now I'll just post many logs showing how good victini is:
 

PK Gaming

Persona 5
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
Update

Alakazam up from A- rank ==> A+ rank* (Alakazam rises to A+ rank and finally surpasses its old rival (Gengar))
Gengar up from A- rank==>A rank
Volcarona up from A- rank ==> A rank
Dragonite up from A- rank ==> A rank
Thundurus-T down from A rank ==> A- rank
Gyarados up from B+ rank ==> A- rank
Victini up from C rank ==> B- rank
Darmanitan up from C rank ==> B- rank
Infernape up from C rank ==> B- rank

I talked to a couple of established BW OU players, and all of them agreed with Ojama's assessment, so those changes ended up being implemented without much fuss. I also decided to bump up Gyarados to A- rank, after thinking it over. A- rank is basically the lowest rank that *most* of the top players pick Pokemon from, (though there are obvious exceptions to this) and Gyarados actually sees decent use at higher levels, so why not?

As for Victini / Darmanitan / Infernape, sun sweepers generally require some extra support to function in OU, but they're great when that support is given (and its honestly not much), so I think B- rank is warranted. Ape works a little different from the other sun sweepers, but it's not that far behind either of them (and even that's debatable. It trades power for more Speed, SR neutrality, Fighting-STAB and less of a reliance on Dugtrio.)

(BTW if someone throws an irrational fit about Infernape, I will bitch slap that person into next week. I'm serious.)
 
I'm a little confused with 'Zam becoming A+ Rank ._.
I feel like that 'Zam can be easily walled by the likes of Jirachi and Celebi, be crippled by them and lose a good chunk of its utility. Isn't 'Zam kind of a "one time" Pokemon, where once it comes out, it's most likely going to die then and there?
The only thing that really walls it is jirachi. Celebi falls to signal beam or even shadow ball. Magic guard gives zam the ability to come in and out as much as it wants and still (with focus sash) be impossible to ko. It can be an asshole through the whole match and revenge kill almost anything.

Plus it almost has the opposite of 4mss considering that 4th spot is generally niche
 

Adamant Zoroark

catchy catchphrase
is a Contributor Alumnus
I'm a little confused with 'Zam becoming A+ Rank ._.
I feel like that 'Zam can be easily walled by the likes of Jirachi and Celebi, be crippled by them and lose a good chunk of its utility. Isn't 'Zam kind of a "one time" Pokemon, where once it comes out, it's most likely going to die then and there?
Jirachi definitely walls Alakazam, but Signal Beam is standard on Alakazam so Celebi does not.

Also, Alakazam often carries Focus Sash so it doesn't die right then and there. Substitute + Life Orb Alakazam doesn't die right then and there since you should only be attempting to set up a Substitute on a predicted switch. And those are the only two Alakazam sets anyone halfway decent ever uses. Just debunked your post there (though Vemane ninja'd all of my points except for when I talked about Substitute Alakazam)
 
Alakazam is a good stallbreaker. Psyshock + Focus Blast murders JelliThorn, a common defensive core. It doesn't mind hazards or LO recoil due to Magic Guard, and Celebi falls to Signal Beam. HP Fire can be used to hit Ferrothorn slightly harder while eliminating Scizor and Forretress. HP Ice is an alternative to eliminate Landorus and Gliscor. Sash can also be used to revenge kill. The only S-Ranker that safely switches is Politoed. At worst Zam is Low A, but High A isn't quite the exaggeration.

Any ideas on Smeargle's placement? Tyranitar and Hippowdon running amok hurts it quite a bit, but it can Spore something to sleep, SmashPass, block phazing, set up hazards, bounce back opponents', phaze, paralyze, and even sacrifice itself to soften blows. I'd put it in D-Rank.
 

Gary

Can be abrasive at times (no joke)
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
One Pokemon that I highly disagree with it's placement in this thread, is Conkeldurr. Sure, we all know that Conk is one of the slowest offensive Pokemon in the game, but honestly, Conk has several things going for it that make it at least B- rank.

First off, Conk is blessed with three amazing abilities; Guts, Iron Fist, and Sheer Force. Guts has always been the most commonly used ability on Conk since it makes him a go-to status absorber, punishing anything that decides to stay in on a boosted Drain Punch, Mach Punch, Stone Edge, etc. Iron Fist boosts all of Conk's punching moves, and thankfully, Conk has a ton of punching moves to abuse the ability. ThunderPunch can be used to hurt Gyarados and Jellicent, Ice Punch can be used for Landorus-T and Gliscor, Drain Punch is given a buff to add to its healing effect, and lastly Mach Punch is boosted, giving him a more powerful priority move. Lastly, Sheer Force is an incredibly underused ability. With Sheer Force, Conk's myriad of boosted moves are boosted even more than Iron Fist. ThunderPunch, IcePunch, and Fire Punch all of similar power to Flamethrower, Ice Beam, and Thunderbolt, while Rock Slide has almost exactly the same amount of power as Stone Edge, but with much more reliable accuracy. Even better, Life Orb can now be used on Conkeldurr without having to worry about the recoil from it, making this set even more powerful then his Choice Banded set!

I feel like Conk's terrible speed is easily balanced out by his outstanding attacking power, bulk, and a semi-reliable recovery STAB move that hits a large portion of the metagame very hard. Mach Punch may be a weak priority move, but coming off of Conks massive attack, it still deals a good amount of damage to anything that needs that final bit of HP chipped away. Conk may not be the most amazing Pokemon around, but I think it at LEAST deserves B- rank. It's far more useful then half of the C-Rank Pokemon, and it definitely doesn't suck in this metagame, like most of the C-Tier Pokemon.
 
The problem with conk is that, sure it can do a ton of damage. But the vast majority of games, what happens is it comes in, forces a switch, and BUs. Meanwhile, the opp goes to keldeo and OHKOs you with rain-boosted hpump. Obviously this is just an example, but even with an all-out attacker set, sure you get one hit off--once you get conk in safely, which can be a task given his horrible special bulk--but you're rarely doing more than that. It's never gonna sweep offensive teams, it can't effectively boost in this meta especially since it lacks recovery, and it doesnt quite have the raw power/coverage to beat walls, so it's limited to a very hard-hitting tank that can't take special hits. C-tier seems fine to me.

In regards to kazam I think A-tier is better for it than either + or -, but if we're talking high vs low I'd probably say low, if this thing got NP it'd be high/S even, but my biggest problem with kazam is that, although it can get a kill vs most any team lacking rachi/blob, it just doesn't OHKO anything and has no way to solve that--CM is too slow given that kazam can't take advantage of the defense boost. So it's basically a failsafe RKer / good lategame sweeper, with fantastic neutral coverage. If it could run both LO and sash, I'd say high A, but as it is I just find it a bit lacking in power--low A-tier imo, or just A > + or -.
 
Issue i think with conkeldurr also is that mach punch doesn't really hurt many of the prominent special attackers. It really doesn't have a way to get arround it's counters, outside of sub (which I actually feel is a viable set). I think it could be B- tier, but I'm not really gonna fight too hard for it, and without my biases, I'd probly set it in mid C tier.

And also, I don't really feel Zam is A+ material. Sure it has magic gaurd, but it still gets dropped to low health by any competent attacker on the switch. From there, any faster/ mon with priority tears it apart. It's not as easy to abuse as other higher tier mons, and I'd be more comfortable seeing it at solid A. It's still really good, A- seems a little too low for me personally, but I'm pretty damn sure it doesn't belong in A+ catagory.
 

ElectivireRocks

Banned deucer.
Conkeldurr's Bulk Up set is bad in this metagame but the recently popularized LO + Sheer Force set is actually pretty good.
That set alone could push Conk to B rank.
Does anyone have any experience with it?
 

Gary

Can be abrasive at times (no joke)
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Yeah, I really dislike the BU set. It's extremely hard to setup, and even at +1, most of the time I find myself spamming Mach Punch. Sadly, this is the only set that people seem to be using, when in fact his other sets are MUCH better.
 
Feraligatr from B Rank => C Rank

I still don't understand what people see in this thing.

It's slow and its weak considering the only move it normally has a chance to use has 40 base power

It is practically a liability and certainly doesn't belong higher than the c-rank pokes, notheless the b-

I feel as if it is a poke that people want to be good, and so they envision it as such when in reality is does shit
 
Between Gyarados and azumaril, I don't really see much of a niche for this guy. He's usable, but yeah, I think he'd be better off in c rank.
 

Gary

Can be abrasive at times (no joke)
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Once Gator gets Sheer Force, then B-Rank will most likely suffice. Until then, I just find it really hard to believe that Gator is considered B-rank. We all know that Gator is pretty damn good in rain, but outside of rain, it's just another slow Water-type with access to SD. B- Rank seems fit to me. It's a niche Pokemon, not a huge everyday threat like Reuniclus, Kingdra, or Magnezone.
 
Once Gator gets Sheer Force, then B-Rank will most likely suffice. Until then, I just find it really hard to believe that Gator is considered B-rank. We all know that Gator is pretty damn good in rain, but outside of rain, it's just another slow Water-type with access to SD. B- Rank seems fit to me. It's a niche Pokemon, not a huge everyday threat like Reuniclus, Kingdra, or Magnezone.
Even when it gets sheer force, it will still be iffy. Maybe a choice band set will suffice, but it's so slow and that speed+choiced+water is not a great combo.

And who believes gator is "pretty damn good in rain?" I think it's useless in almost every way (unless the opponent is using a team with no pokemon faster than 78 speed and/or those pokemon that are faster are frail/weak to water... this is a very unlikely scenario). Of course, if you offer support it's great, but that is a lot of support for something so mediocre. Just use keldeo.

If it can use dd+sheer force, then it may have something going for it (but gyarados...)
 

Gary

Can be abrasive at times (no joke)
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Even when it gets sheer force, it will still be iffy. Maybe a choice band set will suffice, but it's so slow and that speed+choiced+water is not a great combo.

And who believes gator is "pretty damn good in rain?" I think it's useless in almost every way (unless the opponent is using a team with no pokemon faster than 78 speed and/or those pokemon that are faster are frail/weak to water... this is a very unlikely scenario). Of course, if you offer support it's great, but that is a lot of support for something so mediocre. Just use keldeo.

If it can use dd+sheer force, then it may have something going for it (but gyarados...)
Being "pretty damn good in rain" is one of the biggest factors that puts it in B rank.
 
Gatr isn't meant to put speed everything and sweep. If you are running max speed on it you are doing it completely wrong. It's sd set is there to destroy stall and sweet offense late game with aqua jet. It destroys the common slowbro/heatran/amoomgus core and it's defense and hp stats are nice and let it take stuff like 2 keldeo secret swords, rotom-w volt switch. It's strong as hell too seeing as +2 torrent Rain boosted mystic water aqua jet does 76% to 4 Hp Latios. That's an Ohio after two Sr switchins. And comparing keldeo and Gatr is just retarded. Keldeo Is a specially based Mon and can't beat counters such as jellicent and tentacles, the latter in which Gatr sets up on.

Again your whole 'too slow' argument is completely irrelevant as it shouldn't be running that much speed. Just enough for SpD rotom-w. And choice band is just lol, when their is stuff like azumarill. Trust me when I say Gatr is one of the best physical sweepers in the rain, if not the tier. I believe feraligatr should stay in B rank
Except, feraligatr is too slow (for this meta). How often do you see stall? How often do you see a team without latios/keldeo/latias/ferrothorn/jellicent/kyurem-b/celebi/rotom-w/starmie/breloom/dragonite/ninetales/gyarados/salamence/etc.? Each of these are extremely common things that beat feraligatr rather easily.

And no. +2 Torrent in Rain (+2 sr switches) is not a reasonable scenario. It really isn't. Even just +2 is pushing it, bud. I'd think of some kind of analogy, but it's impossible without sounding too ridiculous (gyarados doesn't counter darmanitan because you can get down to zen form with sun support and no sr on the field and then kill it with hp electric, etc.). Plus, even if feraligatr did perform well under those conditions, WHY BOTHER?

And keldeo is certainly comparable. It has less things that can beat it due to its higher speed (feraligatr is too slow), and its counter are all taken out by pursuit, making for rather easy support (or you could run specs hp electric and icy wind after being passed +2 by nastypass celebi to beat all of them effortlessly... which is still more plausible than +2 torrent rain+ 2 sr switches...)

I'd nominate feraligatr for d tier if everyone wasn't on its dick
 
Feraligatr is definitely B-rank probably even higher material. I'd even go as far and say he's broken in rain since I sweep with him way too often. Lol D-tier, please be joking. Anyways Thunderblunder has already said most of what I wanted to say.
 
Most of your "counters" make no sense. I'm talking about Keldeo / Gyarados / Salamence / Jellicent and Ferrothorn in some cases. Just because they resist its stabs doesn't mean they are full on counters.
The word counter means shit if your base speed is under 108. The fact of the matter is that any of these pokemon can come in and kill feraligatr before it kills them. They aren't going to be switching in on +2 waterfall, they will be switching in on the swords dance.


Do you really want to run Hp Electric / Icy Wind Specs Keldeo WITH another pokemon (Pass Celebi) To get through your counters
That was sarcasm... but while we're at it, do you really want to run rain support and make sure you get down to torrent range and find some way to set up to +2 and eliminate any priority users/weather starters/pokes feraligatr can't outspeed and ko (listed above) just to use feraligatr when you can just use a good pokemon like keldeo to do the same thing much more easily?

and 2 sr switches isn't an implausible event... adding that to the rest of your conditions is.

So far you have picked out a facetious example, and one part of an entire list to respond to. Clearly, you haven't a response for the actual argument if that is all you can do.

And what the fuck are those calcs? LOL specs gastrodon, 0 attack breloom, etc. That proves absolutely nothing besides that gatr still takes a hefty amount from some completely unrealistic, gimped attacks.

Instead of responding (or not, actually), a replay or a log or something would be nice

And if you need to be in torrent for feraligatr to work (you do... and even then it's iffy), then:
252+ SpA Life Orb Celebi Leaf Storm vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 177.59 - 209.8%
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 166.94 - 197.19%
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 146.21 - 172.26%
252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 144.53 - 170.3%
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus-T Thunderbolt vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 142.85 - 168.9%
252+ SpA Celebi Leaf Storm vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 136.69 - 161.34%
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 133.61 - 159.66%
252 SpA Choice Specs Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 135.01 - 159.66%
252 SpA Expert Belt Thundurus-T Thunderbolt vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 131.65 - 156.02%
252 SpA Choice Specs Rotom-W Thunderbolt vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 131.09 - 154.62%
252 SpA Celebi Leaf Storm vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 124.92 - 147.89%
252+ Atk Choice Band Kyurem-B Fusion Bolt vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 123.24 - 145.09%
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 119.6 - 141.17%
252 SpA Life Orb Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 117.92 - 139.77%
252+ Atk Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 112.6 - 132.77%
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 112.04 - 132.21%
252 SpA Life Orb Heatran SolarBeam vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 111.48 - 131.93%
252 SpA Life Orb Heatran SolarBeam vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 111.48 - 131.93%
252 SpA Thundurus-T Thunderbolt vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 109.8 - 129.97%
216+ Atk Life Orb Kyurem-B Fusion Bolt vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 104.76 - 123.8%
252 Atk Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 102.52 - 122.68%
252+ SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 103.64 - 122.4%
252+ SpA Life Orb Dragonite Thunder vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 101.96 - 120.16%
252 SpA Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 101.4 - 119.88%
252 SpA Choice Specs Latias Draco Meteor vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 100 - 117.64%
252+ Atk Draco Plate Rivalry (+) Haxorus Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 99.15 - 116.8%
252+ Atk Choice Band Haxorus Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 99.15 - 116.8%
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 97.47 - 115.12%
252+ Atk Iron Fist Conkeldurr Focus Punch vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 95.23 - 112.6%
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Thunder vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 93.27 - 110.08%
252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 92.43 - 108.68%
252+ SpA Choice Specs Flash Fire Heatran Overheat vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 92.15 - 108.4%
252 SpA Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 90.75 - 107.56%
252+ SpA Life Orb Dragonite Draco Meteor vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 88.79 - 104.76%
252 SpA Rotom-W Thunderbolt vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 87.95 - 104.2%
252 SpA Life Orb Celebi Giga Drain vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 87.39 - 103.36%
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 85.99 - 102.8%
252 SpA Life Orb Latias Draco Meteor vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 86.27 - 101.96%
252+ Atk Life Orb Haxorus Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 86.27 - 101.68%
252 SpA Heatran SolarBeam vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 85.71 - 101.4%
252 SpA Heatran SolarBeam vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 85.71 - 101.4%
252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Focus Punch vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 85.15 - 100.56%
252 SpA Choice Specs Starmie Thunderbolt vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 84.59 - 99.71%
252+ Atk Rivalry (+) Haxorus Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 82.63 - 97.47%
252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatran Hidden Power Grass vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 82.35 - 97.47%
192 SpA Life Orb Salamence Draco Meteor vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 82.35 - 97.19%
252 Atk Choice Band Garchomp Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 82.35 - 96.91%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 81.79 - 96.63%
252+ Atk Breloom Seed Bomb vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 80.67 - 95.79%
216+ Atk Kyurem-B Fusion Bolt vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 80.67 - 95.23%
252+ SpA Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 79.83 - 94.11%
252+ Atk Draco Plate Haxorus Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 79.27 - 93.55%
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 76.75 - 90.75%
4 Atk Life Orb Kyurem-B Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 75.35 - 88.79%
252 SpA Latios Draco Meteor vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 75.07 - 88.51%
252 Atk Kyurem-B Fusion Bolt vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 75.07 - 88.51%
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 74.5 - 88.51%
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Thunderbolt vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 74.22 - 87.39%
252 Atk Life Orb Salamence Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 73.66 - 86.55%
252 SpA Life Orb Volcarona Giga Drain vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 71.98 - 85.15%
252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 71.42 - 84.59%
252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Focus Blast vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 71.42 - 84.59%
252 SpA Starmie Thunder vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 71.7 - 84.59%
252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 70.86 - 84.03%
252+ SpA Life Orb Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 70.86 - 83.47%
252+ Atk Life Orb Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 70.86 - 83.47%
252 Atk Choice Band Infernape Close Combat vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 70.58 - 83.19%
252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 70.02 - 82.35%
0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 68.9 - 81.23%
252+ SpA Life Orb Flash Fire Heatran Fire Blast vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 68.34 - 80.95%
252+ SpA Life Orb Jirachi Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 68.34 - 80.95%
252 Atk Rock Gem Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 68.34 - 80.67%
252+ SpA Dragonite Draco Meteor vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 68.34 - 80.67%
252 SpA Celebi Giga Drain vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 67.22 - 79.55%
252 SpA Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 66.1 - 78.99%
252+ Atk Flying Gem Gliscor Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 66.66 - 78.99%
252+ SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Dragon Pulse vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 66.94 - 78.99%
252+ SpA Life Orb Reuniclus Psychic vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 66.94 - 78.99%
252+ Atk Haxorus Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 66.38 - 78.15%
252+ Atk Haxorus Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 66.38 - 78.15%
252+ Atk Haxorus Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 66.38 - 78.15%
252+ Atk Haxorus Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 66.38 - 78.15%
252+ Atk Toxicroak Focus Punch vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 65.54 - 77.31%
200 SpA Expert Belt Jirachi Thunderbolt vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 64.42 - 76.75%
252+ SpA Choice Specs Gastrodon Hidden Power Grass vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 64.98 - 76.75%
252 Atk Life Orb Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 64.7 - 76.47%
252+ SpA Choice Specs Politoed Hidden Power Grass vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 63.86 - 75.63%
252+ SpA Life Orb Vaporeon Hidden Power Grass vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 63.3 - 75.07%
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Dragon Pulse vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 62.74 - 74.22%
252 SpA Ninetales SolarBeam vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 62.74 - 73.94%
252 SpA Life Orb Flash Fire Heatran Magma Storm vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 62.46 - 73.66%
252+ Atk Dragonite Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 61.62 - 73.1%
252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 61.62 - 73.1%
252 Atk Life Orb Infernape Close Combat vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 61.62 - 72.54%
252 Atk Life Orb Infernape Close Combat vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 61.62 - 72.54%
252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor Superpower vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 60.22 - 71.14%
56+ SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 60.5 - 71.14%
252+ Atk Draco Plate Rivalry (-) Haxorus Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 59.66 - 70.58%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 59.38 - 70.3%
228 SpA Life Orb Metagross Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 59.1 - 70.02%
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bug Bite vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 59.1 - 70.02%
252+ Atk Choice Band Gyarados Double-Edge vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 58.54 - 69.18%
252 Atk Life Orb Landorus Earthquake vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 58.26 - 68.9%
4 Atk Kyurem-B Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 57.98 - 68.34%
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 57.98 - 68.34%
252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 57.42 - 67.78%
252 SpA Starmie Thunderbolt vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 57.14 - 67.22%
0 Atk Breloom Focus Punch vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 57.14 - 67.22%
4 SpA Dragonite Thunder vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 57.14 - 67.22%
252+ SpA Life Orb Gastrodon Hidden Power Grass vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 56.86 - 66.94%
0 SpA Jirachi Thunder vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 56.58 - 66.66%
252 Atk Salamence Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 56.58 - 66.66%
0 SpA Jirachi Thunder vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 56.58 - 66.66%
252 Atk Salamence Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 56.58 - 66.66%
252 SpA Flash Fire Heatran Overheat vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 56.02 - 66.1%
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 55.74 - 65.82%
252 SpA Volcarona Giga Drain vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 55.46 - 65.54%
252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 54.9 - 64.98%
252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 54.62 - 64.7%
252+ SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 54.62 - 64.14%
252+ Atk Life Orb Gyarados Bounce vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 53.78 - 63.58%
4 SpA Latias Draco Meteor vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 53.78 - 63.3%
0 SpA Celebi Giga Drain vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 52.66 - 62.74%
28 SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 52.66 - 62.74%
0 SpA Celebi Giga Drain vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 52.66 - 62.74%
252+ SpA Choice Specs Jellicent Shadow Ball vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 52.94 - 62.46%
252+ SpA Flash Fire Heatran Fire Blast vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 52.66 - 62.18%
252+ SpA Jirachi Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 52.66 - 62.18%
252+ SpA Hydreigon Dragon Pulse vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 51.54 - 60.78%
252 SpA Life Orb Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 50.7 - 59.94%
40+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bug Bite vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 50.14 - 59.38%
0 SpA Life Orb Reuniclus Psychic vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 50.14 - 59.38%
252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 49.85 - 58.82%
252+ Atk Rivalry (-) Haxorus Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 49.85 - 58.82%
252+ Atk Rivalry (-) Haxorus Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 49.85 - 58.82%
252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 49.85 - 58.82%
252 Atk Life Orb Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 49.01 - 58.26%
252 SpA Latios Dragon Pulse vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 48.17 - 57.14%
252+ Atk Iron Fist Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 47.89 - 56.58%
252 SpA Flash Fire Heatran Fire Blast vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 47.89 - 56.58%
64+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 47.89 - 56.58%
252 Atk Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 47.05 - 55.46%
252+ SpA Life Orb Heatran Earth Power vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 45.93 - 54.34%
252 Atk Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 45.65 - 54.06%
252 Atk Landorus Earthquake vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 44.81 - 52.94%
252 SpA Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 44.25 - 52.1%
228 Atk Landorus Earthquake vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 43.97 - 52.1%
252+ SpA Politoed Hidden Power Grass vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 43.13 - 50.98%
252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 42.85 - 50.7%
252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Drain Punch vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 42.85 - 50.7%
252 SpA Life Orb Heatran Earth Power vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 41.73 - 49.57%
112+ Atk Life Orb Scizor U-turn vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 41.45 - 49.01%
108 Atk Infernape Close Combat vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 41.45 - 49.01%
252+ Atk Gyarados Bounce vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 41.45 - 49.01%
0 SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 41.17 - 48.73%
252+ Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 40.33 - 47.89%
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 40.33 - 47.33%
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 40.33 - 47.33%
252 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 39.77 - 47.05%
0 SpA Espeon Psychic vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 39.77 - 47.05%
0 SpA Latios Dragon Pulse vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 39.77 - 47.05%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 38.93 - 46.21%
40+ Atk Technician Scizor Bug Bite vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 38.65 - 45.65%
0 SpA Reuniclus Psychic vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 38.65 - 45.65%
248 Atk Gyarados Bounce vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 37.81 - 44.81%
0 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 37.81 - 44.81%
252 SpA Heatran Overheat vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 37.53 - 44.25%
252 Atk Scizor Superpower vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 36.69 - 43.41%
0 Atk Donphan Earthquake vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 35.57 - 42.01%
252+ SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 35.29 - 41.73%
4 SpA Latias Dragon Pulse vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 34.73 - 41.17%
0 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 33.05 - 39.49%
252 Atk Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 33.05 - 39.49%
0 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 33.05 - 39.49%
252+ Atk Gyarados Stone Edge vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 32.77 - 38.65%
252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 32.21 - 38.09%
252 Atk Skill Link Cloyster Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 30.81 - 37.81%
0 Atk Dragonite Dragon Claw vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 31.09 - 36.97%
4 Atk Tyranitar Crunch vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 31.09 - 36.97%
96+ Atk Metagross Earthquake vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 31.09 - 36.69%
0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 30.25 - 35.57%
132+ Atk Toxicroak Drain Punch vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 29.69 - 35.29%
0 Atk Kyurem-B Dragon Tail vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 28.85 - 34.45%
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 28.85 - 34.45%
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 28.85 - 34.45%
0 SpA Flash Fire Heatran Lava Plume vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 26.33 - 31.09%

Any of this kos you bro :(
 

Lavos

Banned deucer.
vemane do you even know what you're talking about in regards to feraligatr? it seems like you're arguing just for the sake of it at this point. look, gator has proven itself time and time again in plenty of high level battles to be an extremely powerful and threatening sweeper that is woefully underprepared for. moving it to c-rank is like a slap in the face to the success that people like gr8 and marth have had with it, and it's completely unjustifiable especially given the current metagame trend towards bulky sand offense, a playstyle that is even more susceptible to a gator sweep than your average rain or weatherless team.
 

Gary

Can be abrasive at times (no joke)
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Yeah Gator is by no means bad at all. He's one of the most underrated rain sweepers in the meta, and once it gets Sheer Force, it'll be an even more threatening. I'm not ENTIRELY sure about it being B rank at this point, but I feel like it manages just fine. It's definitely not as bad as you think it is, and I feel like you've never even tried using Gator before. Don't throw out pointless arguments if you've never used a Pokemon before Vemane, which you obviously haven't. I have used it a decent amount, and had pretty decent success with it. Funny thing is, I suck at using rain teams, and I still swept quite a bit with Gator. I can see why people find it really good.
 
Yeah Gator is by no means bad at all. He's one of the most underrated rain sweepers in the meta, and once it gets Sheer Force, it'll be an even more threatening. I'm not ENTIRELY sure about it being B rank at this point, but I feel like it manages just fine. It's definitely not as bad as you think it is, and I feel like you've never even tried using Gator before. Don't throw out pointless arguments if you've never used a Pokemon before Vemane, which you obviously haven't. I have used it a decent amount, and had pretty decent success with it. Funny thing is, I suck at using rain teams, and I still swept quite a bit with Gator. I can see why people find it really good.
I have indeed used it and found no use. It just required too much support due to the prevalence of water resists (that were faster) and I found no reason to use it over the likes of keldeo or gyarados (its eventual replacement)
 

CTC

Banned deucer.
is a Two-Time Past SPL Championis a Two-Time Past WCoP Champion
Big Chungus Winner
And if you need to be in torrent for feraligatr to work (you do... and even then it's iffy), then:
252+ SpA Life Orb Celebi Leaf Storm vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 177.59 - 209.8%
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 166.94 - 197.19%
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 146.21 - 172.26%
252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 144.53 - 170.3%
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus-T Thunderbolt vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 142.85 - 168.9%
252+ SpA Celebi Leaf Storm vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 136.69 - 161.34%
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 133.61 - 159.66%
252 SpA Choice Specs Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 135.01 - 159.66%
252 SpA Expert Belt Thundurus-T Thunderbolt vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 131.65 - 156.02%
252 SpA Choice Specs Rotom-W Thunderbolt vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 131.09 - 154.62%
252 SpA Celebi Leaf Storm vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 124.92 - 147.89%
252+ Atk Choice Band Kyurem-B Fusion Bolt vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 123.24 - 145.09%
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 119.6 - 141.17%
252 SpA Life Orb Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 117.92 - 139.77%
252+ Atk Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 112.6 - 132.77%
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 112.04 - 132.21%
252 SpA Life Orb Heatran SolarBeam vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 111.48 - 131.93%
252 SpA Life Orb Heatran SolarBeam vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 111.48 - 131.93%
252 SpA Thundurus-T Thunderbolt vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 109.8 - 129.97%
216+ Atk Life Orb Kyurem-B Fusion Bolt vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 104.76 - 123.8%
252 Atk Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 102.52 - 122.68%
252+ SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 103.64 - 122.4%
252+ SpA Life Orb Dragonite Thunder vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 101.96 - 120.16%
252 SpA Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 101.4 - 119.88%
252 SpA Choice Specs Latias Draco Meteor vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 100 - 117.64%
252+ Atk Draco Plate Rivalry (+) Haxorus Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 99.15 - 116.8%
252+ Atk Choice Band Haxorus Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 99.15 - 116.8%
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 97.47 - 115.12%
252+ Atk Iron Fist Conkeldurr Focus Punch vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 95.23 - 112.6%
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Thunder vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 93.27 - 110.08%
252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 92.43 - 108.68%
252+ SpA Choice Specs Flash Fire Heatran Overheat vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 92.15 - 108.4%
252 SpA Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 90.75 - 107.56%
252+ SpA Life Orb Dragonite Draco Meteor vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 88.79 - 104.76%
252 SpA Rotom-W Thunderbolt vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 87.95 - 104.2%
252 SpA Life Orb Celebi Giga Drain vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 87.39 - 103.36%
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 85.99 - 102.8%
252 SpA Life Orb Latias Draco Meteor vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 86.27 - 101.96%
252+ Atk Life Orb Haxorus Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 86.27 - 101.68%
252 SpA Heatran SolarBeam vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 85.71 - 101.4%
252 SpA Heatran SolarBeam vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 85.71 - 101.4%
252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Focus Punch vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 85.15 - 100.56%
252 SpA Choice Specs Starmie Thunderbolt vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 84.59 - 99.71%
252+ Atk Rivalry (+) Haxorus Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 82.63 - 97.47%
252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatran Hidden Power Grass vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 82.35 - 97.47%
192 SpA Life Orb Salamence Draco Meteor vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 82.35 - 97.19%
252 Atk Choice Band Garchomp Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 82.35 - 96.91%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 81.79 - 96.63%
252+ Atk Breloom Seed Bomb vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 80.67 - 95.79%
216+ Atk Kyurem-B Fusion Bolt vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 80.67 - 95.23%
252+ SpA Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 79.83 - 94.11%
252+ Atk Draco Plate Haxorus Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 79.27 - 93.55%
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 76.75 - 90.75%
4 Atk Life Orb Kyurem-B Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 75.35 - 88.79%
252 SpA Latios Draco Meteor vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 75.07 - 88.51%
252 Atk Kyurem-B Fusion Bolt vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 75.07 - 88.51%
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 74.5 - 88.51%
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Thunderbolt vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 74.22 - 87.39%
252 Atk Life Orb Salamence Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 73.66 - 86.55%
252 SpA Life Orb Volcarona Giga Drain vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 71.98 - 85.15%
252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 71.42 - 84.59%
252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Focus Blast vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 71.42 - 84.59%
252 SpA Starmie Thunder vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 71.7 - 84.59%
252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 70.86 - 84.03%
252+ SpA Life Orb Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 70.86 - 83.47%
252+ Atk Life Orb Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 70.86 - 83.47%
252 Atk Choice Band Infernape Close Combat vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 70.58 - 83.19%
252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 70.02 - 82.35%
0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 68.9 - 81.23%
252+ SpA Life Orb Flash Fire Heatran Fire Blast vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 68.34 - 80.95%
252+ SpA Life Orb Jirachi Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 68.34 - 80.95%
252 Atk Rock Gem Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 68.34 - 80.67%
252+ SpA Dragonite Draco Meteor vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 68.34 - 80.67%
252 SpA Celebi Giga Drain vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 67.22 - 79.55%
252 SpA Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 66.1 - 78.99%
252+ Atk Flying Gem Gliscor Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 66.66 - 78.99%
252+ SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Dragon Pulse vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 66.94 - 78.99%
252+ SpA Life Orb Reuniclus Psychic vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 66.94 - 78.99%
252+ Atk Haxorus Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 66.38 - 78.15%
252+ Atk Haxorus Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 66.38 - 78.15%
252+ Atk Haxorus Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 66.38 - 78.15%
252+ Atk Haxorus Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 66.38 - 78.15%
252+ Atk Toxicroak Focus Punch vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 65.54 - 77.31%
200 SpA Expert Belt Jirachi Thunderbolt vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 64.42 - 76.75%
252+ SpA Choice Specs Gastrodon Hidden Power Grass vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 64.98 - 76.75%
252 Atk Life Orb Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 64.7 - 76.47%
252+ SpA Choice Specs Politoed Hidden Power Grass vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 63.86 - 75.63%
252+ SpA Life Orb Vaporeon Hidden Power Grass vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 63.3 - 75.07%
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Dragon Pulse vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 62.74 - 74.22%
252 SpA Ninetales SolarBeam vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 62.74 - 73.94%
252 SpA Life Orb Flash Fire Heatran Magma Storm vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 62.46 - 73.66%
252+ Atk Dragonite Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 61.62 - 73.1%
252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 61.62 - 73.1%
252 Atk Life Orb Infernape Close Combat vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 61.62 - 72.54%
252 Atk Life Orb Infernape Close Combat vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 61.62 - 72.54%
252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor Superpower vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 60.22 - 71.14%
56+ SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 60.5 - 71.14%
252+ Atk Draco Plate Rivalry (-) Haxorus Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 59.66 - 70.58%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 59.38 - 70.3%
228 SpA Life Orb Metagross Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 59.1 - 70.02%
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bug Bite vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 59.1 - 70.02%
252+ Atk Choice Band Gyarados Double-Edge vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 58.54 - 69.18%
252 Atk Life Orb Landorus Earthquake vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 58.26 - 68.9%
4 Atk Kyurem-B Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 57.98 - 68.34%
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 57.98 - 68.34%
252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 57.42 - 67.78%
252 SpA Starmie Thunderbolt vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 57.14 - 67.22%
0 Atk Breloom Focus Punch vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 57.14 - 67.22%
4 SpA Dragonite Thunder vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 57.14 - 67.22%
252+ SpA Life Orb Gastrodon Hidden Power Grass vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 56.86 - 66.94%
0 SpA Jirachi Thunder vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 56.58 - 66.66%
252 Atk Salamence Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 56.58 - 66.66%
0 SpA Jirachi Thunder vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 56.58 - 66.66%
252 Atk Salamence Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 56.58 - 66.66%
252 SpA Flash Fire Heatran Overheat vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 56.02 - 66.1%
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 55.74 - 65.82%
252 SpA Volcarona Giga Drain vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 55.46 - 65.54%
252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 54.9 - 64.98%
252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 54.62 - 64.7%
252+ SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 54.62 - 64.14%
252+ Atk Life Orb Gyarados Bounce vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 53.78 - 63.58%
4 SpA Latias Draco Meteor vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 53.78 - 63.3%
0 SpA Celebi Giga Drain vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 52.66 - 62.74%
28 SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 52.66 - 62.74%
0 SpA Celebi Giga Drain vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 52.66 - 62.74%
252+ SpA Choice Specs Jellicent Shadow Ball vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 52.94 - 62.46%
252+ SpA Flash Fire Heatran Fire Blast vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 52.66 - 62.18%
252+ SpA Jirachi Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 52.66 - 62.18%
252+ SpA Hydreigon Dragon Pulse vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 51.54 - 60.78%
252 SpA Life Orb Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 50.7 - 59.94%
40+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bug Bite vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 50.14 - 59.38%
0 SpA Life Orb Reuniclus Psychic vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 50.14 - 59.38%
252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 49.85 - 58.82%
252+ Atk Rivalry (-) Haxorus Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 49.85 - 58.82%
252+ Atk Rivalry (-) Haxorus Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 49.85 - 58.82%
252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 49.85 - 58.82%
252 Atk Life Orb Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 49.01 - 58.26%
252 SpA Latios Dragon Pulse vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 48.17 - 57.14%
252+ Atk Iron Fist Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 47.89 - 56.58%
252 SpA Flash Fire Heatran Fire Blast vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 47.89 - 56.58%
64+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 47.89 - 56.58%
252 Atk Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 47.05 - 55.46%
252+ SpA Life Orb Heatran Earth Power vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 45.93 - 54.34%
252 Atk Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 45.65 - 54.06%
252 Atk Landorus Earthquake vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 44.81 - 52.94%
252 SpA Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 44.25 - 52.1%
228 Atk Landorus Earthquake vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 43.97 - 52.1%
252+ SpA Politoed Hidden Power Grass vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 43.13 - 50.98%
252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 42.85 - 50.7%
252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Drain Punch vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 42.85 - 50.7%
252 SpA Life Orb Heatran Earth Power vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 41.73 - 49.57%
112+ Atk Life Orb Scizor U-turn vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 41.45 - 49.01%
108 Atk Infernape Close Combat vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 41.45 - 49.01%
252+ Atk Gyarados Bounce vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 41.45 - 49.01%
0 SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 41.17 - 48.73%
252+ Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 40.33 - 47.89%
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 40.33 - 47.33%
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 40.33 - 47.33%
252 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 39.77 - 47.05%
0 SpA Espeon Psychic vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 39.77 - 47.05%
0 SpA Latios Dragon Pulse vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 39.77 - 47.05%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 38.93 - 46.21%
40+ Atk Technician Scizor Bug Bite vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 38.65 - 45.65%
0 SpA Reuniclus Psychic vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 38.65 - 45.65%
248 Atk Gyarados Bounce vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 37.81 - 44.81%
0 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 37.81 - 44.81%
252 SpA Heatran Overheat vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 37.53 - 44.25%
252 Atk Scizor Superpower vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 36.69 - 43.41%
0 Atk Donphan Earthquake vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 35.57 - 42.01%
252+ SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 35.29 - 41.73%
4 SpA Latias Dragon Pulse vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 34.73 - 41.17%
0 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 33.05 - 39.49%
252 Atk Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 33.05 - 39.49%
0 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 33.05 - 39.49%
252+ Atk Gyarados Stone Edge vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 32.77 - 38.65%
252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 32.21 - 38.09%
252 Atk Skill Link Cloyster Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 30.81 - 37.81%
0 Atk Dragonite Dragon Claw vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 31.09 - 36.97%
4 Atk Tyranitar Crunch vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 31.09 - 36.97%
96+ Atk Metagross Earthquake vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 31.09 - 36.69%
0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 30.25 - 35.57%
132+ Atk Toxicroak Drain Punch vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 29.69 - 35.29%
0 Atk Kyurem-B Dragon Tail vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 28.85 - 34.45%
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 28.85 - 34.45%
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 28.85 - 34.45%
0 SpA Flash Fire Heatran Lava Plume vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 26.33 - 31.09%

Any of this kos you bro :(
yea i think u missed banded rayqyaza outrage, spexkyogre thunder, banded groudon eq (which i think gatr tanks so u shouldnt include it), spex shaymin s seed flare, spex dialga thunder, orb palkia thunder, soul dew latios thunder/draco (which is essentially spex, but it adds to ur argument), and maybe a few lower tier threats like spex zapdos thunder, spex shaymin seed flare, banded victini bolt strike, max hp victini final gambit, banded snorlax self destruct etc. U should remember to include a more comprehensive list the next time u try to rebut someone's argument! ur welcome.

 
Most of the shit you posted makes no sense too such as Life Orb Volcarona, Infernape, Terrakion, Landorus etc. I wasn't aware that these were counters to Feraligatr. Focus Punch Conkeldurr, Choice Band Ferrothorn, Life Orb Celebi, Focus Blast Infernape... It's hard to take you seriously with any of these bullshit calcs
I took a honko calc bro. And I don't understand how you are saying my calcs are bullshit when
LOL specs gastrodon, 0 attack breloom, etc.
Those are just calcs from everything honko considers ou that do over 30% (can kill in torrent range) and it certainly wasn't central to my argument.

What you still haven't addressed (amongst other things): what warrants giving feraligatr the support it needs to take down a standard team?
 
What support does Feraligatr need besides Stealth Rock and Rain? you act as if it is one of the most niche pokemon in the game that requires too much support to operate effectively. I don't know what you're asking me anymore but I guess I'm just going to have to repeat what I was saying. Feraligatr is a late game sweeper. It sets up and it cleans up weakened teams. It cleans up standard Rain Balance teams consisting of Jirachi/Donphan/Keldeo/Thundurus/Politoed/Filler etc. It sets up on so many things and can tank hits easily to get down to torrent range and sweep. As lavos said it can also easily clean up common sand after a swords dance as well. It gets many set up opportunities on bulky waters like slowbro and tentacruel. If you have any more questions, just ask.
To deal with anything faster that isn't weak to water at all it needs the torrent boost, as you made great note of before. But even then quite a bit of prior damage is needed. Besides that, one could opt to eliminate all of the water resists, but there are so many that doing so against a competent opponent is difficult to the point where it would be far easier to use a different pokemon.

I suppose my main critique of feraligatr in that regard is that it requires so much support to perform a role that other pokemon (lucario, dragonite, etc.) can do without nearly as much
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 2)

Top