The UU Viability Ranking Thread

[PTJon7]

I'd say Kabutop's only real niche is in the rain, but it is really threatening when the rain is up. It could in theory run an offensive rapid spin like in RU, or even a physically defensive spinner. I'd say it totally deserves C-Rank.

In regards to Golurk V Scrafty/Virizion:

252 Atk Virizion Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Golurk: 192-228 (50.26 - 59.68%) -- 77.73% chance to 2HKO

0 Atk Golurk Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Virizion: 170-202 (52.46 - 62.34%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Scrafty Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Golurk: 170-204 (44.5 - 53.4%) -- 0.39% chance to 2HKO

0 Atk Golurk DynamicPunch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Scrafty: 154-182 (56.61 - 66.91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Granted it isn't very realistic to have both Ice Punch and Dynamic Punch on defensive Golurk, but it does prove that Golurk can atleast deal with both of them to a degree.

 

[MQJinx]

Nominating Registeel for D-Rank. It is downright predictable, and so many things set up on it (CroCune, Shaymin, RelicLetta, Azumarill, Snorlax, Scrafty, basically any setup sweeper with Substitute) due to its pitiful Attack. Xatu walls anything without SClaw, which has rather poor coverage. Taunt + recovery users like Crobat also wall it. It is also forced to rely on lefties, and Trick messes it up. Badly.

Ditto for D-Rank. It can revenge kill one mon and if lucky, sweep. However, it's frail and can be played around.

 

[EonADS]

@Jon: Your Scrafty calc should be factoring in LO or Choice Band. Using Lefties on DD Scrafty is stupid (though I suppose Lum Berry is viable, I find it easier just to take status with my other Pokes), and the only other Scrafty with max attack is the Choice Band set (which is also Adamant, but w/e). You're also assuming SD Virizion, whereas I've found Calm Mind sets and Work Up mixed sets to be almost as common (+0 Lefties Giga Drain is a guaranteed 2HKO from either, and both typically run Life Orb. At +1, both sets OHKO with Life Orb).

Still, moot point. Golurk deserves B-rank regardless because it's just so damn effective as a utility check for various threats, and because its utility as a Stealth Rock setter and spin blocker gives it another edge.

Agreeing with MQJinx on both Registeel and Ditto. Honestly, Registeel is borderline useless.

EDIT: Also agreeing with Kabutops for C-Rank. I've used it as a spinner before, and it's damn good against Chandelure and Frosslass both. Cofagrigus is irritating, but it's possible to compensate for that with your other teammates. Major 4MSS, though.

 

[PTJon7]

Fair enough Eon, Golurk can't really beat Scrafty or Virizion that well.

Registeel isn't that easy to set up on, thanks to Siesmic Toss. Almost every set up pokemon that uses Substitute doesn't have enough HP to make 101 HP Subs, so Registeel can always break Subs. T-Wave also shuts down most pokemon trying to set up on it as well (obviously discounting Scrafty from all of this, as it can easily set up on Registeel regardless of Regi's moves)

Mono steel typing and really high defensive stats make it a decent wall, I think it should stay C-Rank.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Yeah, Registeel isn't all that bad. His typing and titanic defenses mean he still walls a lot of Pokemon such as Roserade, Raikou, and a bunch of others. He has Thunder Wave and Stealth Rock too, which allows him to support the team well, and also deters setup. While it invites some dangerous Pokemon in, it can throw a T-wave at them, which helps. He's not that good, but he can still work on teams needing a strong wall. C-Rank looks fine.

I'd agree with Ditto for D though. It's basically an all or nothing Pokemon. It can revenge kill setup sweepers, which is nice, but otherwise it is often a hinderance to the team.

Golurk looks pretty B-Rank imo, since it checks a lot of important threats like Mienshao and Raikou, sets up SR, and hits pretty hard.

 

[spuds4ever]

252 SpA Raikou Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Golurk: 170-200 (44.5 - 52.35%) -- 85.94% chance to 2HKO after Spikes

252 SpA Life Orb Raikou Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Golurk: 221-260 (57.85 - 68.06%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Spikes

I wouldn't say golurk can counter Raikou with those kind of calcs. Basically, all he does is beat fighting types other than virizion and scrafty as zapdos and raik still beat him and he has quite a few flaws such as struggling with bulky waters and not being able to spin-block. This thing should be C rank IMO especially seeing as we're cutting down on B rank's size if I understand correctly.

Agreeing with registeel in C though. Don't even get me started on how annoying that thing is with protect =_=

 

[EonADS]

^ He didn't say Golurk could counter Raikou, he said it was a check. Which it is, and a good one.

>Golurk basically does nothing but counter most Fighting-types and fail at spin blocking

Also lays SR. Also a damn good utility check for things like Victini, Arcanine, Raikou, Zapdos, Rhyperior, Darmanitan, Crobat, and other common and frustrating Pokemon. Also a good physical tank and excellent Umbreon partner. Still hits reasonably hard without any investment. Capable of fucking up a lot of its switch-ins depending on set if they aren't careful. Completely walls Mienshao and does much the same against most Heracross.

 

[TalkTakesTime]

Supporting Sweep's suggestion of Kabutops for C rank. With a Choice Band and rain, its damage output is incredible and it is extremely difficult to revenge kill. Add in hazards support and very few things can take a hit and retaliate. It also gets priority, and while being locked into a base 40 power move can be a problem, it still hits hard enough to do serious damage to things like Honchkrow that otherwise threaten it with STAB Sucker Punch. It should not go higher than C though imo, due it its reliance on rain support to augment its otherwise lacking speed and competition as a rain sweeper with Omastar, although it does hit on the other side of the spectrum.
Beyond a CB set, it can also run an offensive spinning set with SD and LO/Lum; although once again it is slow without rain, a +2 STAB LO Aqua Jet will still hurt a fair few things.

TL; DR
Kabutops for C rank due to immense power in rain and ability to spin, but not higher due to reliance on rain to alleviate several problems and disappointing defensive typing making a bulky spinner set outclassed.

 

[RandomKrud]

Alright, while ditto can be cumbersome sometimes, hes just too great at revenge killing. It can be a hassle to wait, but he destroys setup sweepers and can steal sweeps entirely. I think Ditto should be a C.

 

[relaunched]

Alright, while ditto can be cumbersome sometimes, hes just too great at revenge killing. It can be a hassle to wait, but he destroys setup sweepers and can steal sweeps entirely. I think Ditto should be a C.

Thing about Ditto is it's the most predictable Pokemon in existence, and no competent opponent is going to set up a sweep without first considering the presence of Ditto. I think its chief advantage is the ability to make your opponent avoid setting up these sweeps, but there are plenty of other Pokemon that do this in other ways. I'll concede that Ditto will do pretty well against all-out offense, but overall it's a pretty bad choice for a team, since defensive and balanced teams abound in this metagame.

 

[Garchomp for president]

I have a suggestion, Spritomb for C-Rank. The set im proposing is this

Spiritomb@Leftovers
Pressure
Impish
252 HP/ 252 Def/ 4 SpD

• Will o' Wisp
• Pain Split
• Sucker Punch
• Shadow Sneak

What It Does

• Walls UU fighting types that dominate the tier
• With base 108 Defences, it is a great wall
• Will o' Wisp just adds to its amazing defence stat
• Pain Split isnt wish, but its beter than nothing
• Ghost and Dark are a fantastic type combo in UU
• Burns physical threats and walls
• Gets amazing priority STAB
• With it being a ghost type, it can spinblock

What It lacks

• Has a pityful HP stat
• Very slow, base 36 Speed
• Not the greatest attack
• Has no form of relieable recovery
• Horrably shallow movepool
• Very predictable

Also I agree with Sweep on Kabutops

 

[Garchomp for president]

Sorry to double post but talktakestime, aqua jet is no loger 40 BP. It was revamped in BW to 80 BP I believe.

 

[atomicllamas]

Sorry to double post but talktakestime, aqua jet is no loger 40 BP. It was revamped in BW to 80 BP I believe.

Incorrect

http://www.smogon.com/bw/moves/aqua_jet

 

[CoolStoryBrobat]

I've never really seen Spiritomb used in UU so I can't really give much of an opinion on it...but aside from the way of base stats, it seems Spiritomb would be outclassed as a bulky ghost-type by Cofagrigus, and to an extent Sableye (who also has the same typing but does everything that set does...but better).

Choice Band Spiritomb, I wonder how well it'd do. It's something neither of the aforementioned Ghost-types can really do (Well, I do see Trick Sableye occasionally but usually it dies subsequently. And Specs Trick Cofagrigus, thankfully isn't a thing). However once again, I never saw Spiritomb played in UU so idk how it performs. It just seems like it'd be shadowed (no pun intended) by the other Ghost-types in the tier.

 

[Cesterp]

I decided to test out a team with Banded Spiritomb. Built the entire team around it, tried to make sure it would work, all three of my other offensive mons could take on any given steel type and beat it (Banded Flygon, Scarf Heracross, and mixed Entei-my other test-quite alright actually), and Spiritomb just was not doing anything useful. It gets set-up on when attempting to use Sucker Punch and then fails to KO with it anyway, it doesn't typically do more than 60% damage even with a Super Effective Shadow Sneak, and quite frankly the only thing I've found it useful for is revenging things that are weakened by ExtremeSpeed with Pursuit. It just doesn't have coverage, speed, or quite enough bulk to do anything fantastic other than be a mediocre attacker. At least from how I played with it, Banded Spiritomb doesn't really even need to be bothered to be rated. I think Honchcrow provides just about the same utility as the band set but about ten times better. It's just not a good idea to be choice locked on Sucker Punch or a 40BP move (your only two choices, by the way), because you're just asking to let something powerful that you can't kill come in after you get the kill. It's a destroyer of momentum and almost entirely not viable.

 

[PTJon7]

I think Choice Band + Sucker Punch is a joke, I've never understood why anyone would use that since soo many things can go wrong when locked into Sucker Punch. I really think Spiritomb is just outclassed in general, I don't really think that it needs mentioning.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Spiritomb is not viable in UU for quite a few reasons. For one, it is outclassed in everything it could potentially do. As a defensive Ghost-type, it is outclassed almost entirely by Cofagrigus and even Dusclops; they have significantly more bulk than Spiritomb and resist things like Megahorn. As a Ghost / Dark type for the no weaknesses, Sableye is much better, as although it lacks raw stats, it has priority Will-O-Wisp and reliable recovery. CM is also outclassed by Mismagius, who is much faster and has a better movepool. Cofagrigus is also superior. Finally, CB Spiritomb sucks, because Sucker Punch is unreliable and Pursuit and Shadow Sneak are weak. Spiritomb is simply outclassed and is not viable in UU.

I may come back later with a nom but I'm on my phone so I'll wait to edit here.

 

[Garchomp for president]

Well spirtomb has a beter SpD stat than cofagrigus, on top of that cofag (Lol) has a disapionting HP and SpD also. Really its just a rank not that many people will use it anyway

 

[Specter Pro]

Well spirtomb has a beter SpD stat than cofagrigus, on top of that cofag (Lol) has a disapionting HP and SpD also. Really its just a rank not that many people will use it anyway

Cofagrigus's Physical bulk is far superior however and it can also be a potent offensive threat with TR and NP (unlike Spiritomb).

Funny tho. I recently considered Spiritomb for a UU Team I was building: I wanted a bulky Spin Blocker but my Team also lacked Priority so I thought: wynaut Spiritomb? Yeah.... I kinda figured it wouldn't work out anyway ._.

Edit: Also, ran a calc and as I thought Cofag's Special bulk is better on account of having more HP.

Hide

252 SpAtk Victini Blue Flare vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Cofagrigus: 52.81% - 62.81% (2 hits to KO)

252 SpAtk Victini Blue Flare vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Spiritomb: 54.61% - 64.47% (2 hits to KO)

Not that it really matters in this situation XP

 

[Lovelace]

I was using Rest Talk CM Dark Pulse Spiritomb for a while and he made a pretty damn reliable spin blocker. I can see how Cofagrigus with its superior physical bulk might outclass it with a mono attacking set of its own but Spiritomb has a few advantages.

1. The great Ghost/Dark typing. This gives him no weaknesses which is really useful for a CMer looking to end the game and it gives him additional opportunities to set up like on Psychics. Dark STAB is also generally superior since no mons are immune to it.
2. Pressure. Mummy definitely has its own advantages but Pressure can help stall a mon out of the last few PP it needs to break Spiritomb.
3. Not really sure if this can be counted but Spiritomb has the versatility of being able to run physical or special, which may buy you a turn or two before the opponent brings in the correct counter.

It's a lackluster pokemon for sure but just thought I'd share my experiences with it.

I feel like Amoongus could make it into B-Rank. He can wall bulky waters and fighters, two of the most common archetypes you see on team. He can incapacitate his own counters with status and is not really set up fodder due the aforementioned status and Clear Smog. The offensive LO pivot set is also viable, allowing him to do heavy damage to common switch-ins like Zapdos and Roserade.

Also I feel that Weavile doesn't quite deserve A Rank. Really I think he's a good theorymon but in actuality who has actually been like "oh shit Weavile keeps wrecking me". You frequently see RMTs where weakness to SD Weavile is cited, but in those same threads its noted how Weavile never really gets such an opportunity and how he is quickly worn down with hazards and LO. His moves also have generally low BP making his high attack stat really misleading and cause him to do really disappointing amounts to random stuff like Durant (who only takes 40ish from Low Kick). Strictly speaking I suppose he fits the definition of A Rank, being able to sweep a large portion of the metagame; but I feel this is misleading with regards to his actual level of viability.

I may have something of an unusual experience though as I use to be really priority-heavy with my team building which made it really easy to take Weavile out.

Also, any place for Piloswine on this list? :P

 

[Anarky]

Venomoth is A-rank... Porygon2 is B-rank. Is this a joke? Venomoth is not hard to play around. A SR weakness means a few smart double-switches and it's done for. Meanwhile Porygon2 is an absolute bulky monster who's virtually impossible to 2hko without a STAB Fighting-type move. Meanwhile he can cripple with various status. And Trace is incredible. Also, Gligar at C is pretty absurb. The mon takes anything physical, sets up SR, and keeps momentum. What more do you want from a physical wall?

 

[Shiruba]

Also, Gligar at C is pretty absurb. The mon takes anything physical, sets up SR, and keeps momentum. What more do you want from a physical wall?

it's pretty much set-up fodder for a lot of problem 'mons, though, and two of the 'mons it's supposed to check can do something about it viably and fairly easily. heracross can just muscle through it if you slap swords dance on it or something and mienshao can run hp ice.

 

[PTJon7]

Venomoth is A-rank... Porygon2 is B-rank. Is this a joke? Venomoth is not hard to play around. A SR weakness means a few smart double-switches and it's done for. Meanwhile Porygon2 is an absolute bulky monster who's virtually impossible to 2hko without a STAB Fighting-type move. Meanwhile he can cripple with various status. And Trace is incredible. Also, Gligar at C is pretty absurb. The mon takes anything physical, sets up SR, and keeps momentum. What more do you want from a physical wall?

Venomoth is the best baton passer in the tier thanks to Quiver Dance and Sleep Powder. Sleep Powder is the real important aspect of Venomoth, as it makes nothing safe from Venomoth and can almost guarantee free set up if it hits. Venomoth is actually pretty hard to play around since it can put any member of your team asleep which, thanks to 5th gen sleep mechanics, can often mean that pokemon is out for the rest of the match. While Venomoth's weakness to SR is problematic, it's typing grants it 4x resistances to Fighting and Grass, further aiding it in setting up. And finally, it's ability Wonder Skin reduces the accuracy of moves like Roar and Whirlwind to 50%, making it much harder to phaze Venomoth.

The whole "why is Gligar so bad" topic was actually quite thoroughly discussed in the May Usage stats thread, I'd recommend you check that out: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3484437&page=2

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Venomoth is A-rank... Porygon2 is B-rank. Is this a joke? Venomoth is not hard to play around. A SR weakness means a few smart double-switches and it's done for. Meanwhile Porygon2 is an absolute bulky monster who's virtually impossible to 2hko without a STAB Fighting-type move. Meanwhile he can cripple with various status. And Trace is incredible. Also, Gligar at C is pretty absurb. The mon takes anything physical, sets up SR, and keeps momentum. What more do you want from a physical wall?

Venomoth is A-Rank because it is an extremely lethal Pokemon. It's not a sweeper, but it's meant to boost then pass them to a powerful special attacker like Nidoqueen or Chandelure. It can completely incapacitate an opponent with Sleep Powder, and the 5th Gen Sleep Mechanics make a sleep into a literal KO. Venomoth can use the free turns to boost, while it can pass, and Wonder Skin makes status and phazing a hard way to deal with Venomoth.

Porygon2 is a great Pokemon, I'll give you that, but it has some notable flaws that prevent it from being A-Rank. It's weak to Fighting-type moves, the most common attacking type in UU, meaning it gets walked all over by Mienshao and Heracross. Some players have also run Flame Body over Flash Fire on Chandelure, diminishing P2's ability to counter it. Don't get me wrong, Pory2 is an excellent Pokemon and is surely Top B-Rank, but it's not worthy of A-Rank atm.

Gligar has a lot of issues which make it a poor Pokemon in UU. Yeah, it might have the physical bulk of God, but it can't really take advantage of it worth a damn. It can't reliably counter many Fighting-types in UU, I guess it counters Scarf Heracross, but so what? You might as well be using Cofagrigus or even Dusclops if that's what you're looking for. SD Hera sets up all over it and loves Toxic to simply OHKO Gligar. Cobalion and Mienshao run HP Ice a lot, which means Gligar isn't beating them either. The same applies to Virizion, by the way. It is sorely outclassed as a physical wall by Cofagrigus and Slowbro, and being neutral to Dark doesn't matter since Cof and Slowbro have enough bulk to take things like Krook's Crunch anyways. Gligar is also extremely weak; Cofagrigus's decently powerful Shadow Ball and Slowbro's rage inducing Scald may deter setup at times (as may Sable's Foul Play/Dusclops's Curse), but an EQ off of 75 Attack isn't doing much to anything; hell it can't even OHKO Darmanitan without any Attack investment! This means, well, it's setup fodder to the absolute max. It gets set up on by things like Azelf, Tornadus, SD Hera, Bisharp (yeah, Gligar is still setup fodder), Mismagius, Cobalion. Well, anything can set up on Gligar (just like Claydol, except a bit less awful).

 

[Swamp-Rocket]

I'm going to be the oddball that pushes for B-Ranked Gligar.

Here is a list of some of the things it walls.

• Heracross: Yes, I am aware that Gligar can get set up on by Heracross if it happens to be a Swords Dance variant. However, Swords Dance was only used on 13% of Heracrosses last month, which isn't a significant amount. Guts was also only used on 25% of Heracross. Maybe in a tournament environment Swords Dance Heracross is common, but even then, if Heracross uses Swords Dance, its probably going to use Stone Edge the next turn, which does this much damage.
  
  252 +2 Atk Heracross Stone Edge vs 252 HP/252 Def Eviolite Gligar (+Def) : 29.64% - 35.03% (3-4 hits to KO)
  
  If it is poisoned then yes, Gligar is screwed, but even then, Heracross will be down on quite a bit of HP as a result of the Toxic Damage, and then can be revenge killed. Guts Choice Band Heracross, on the other hand, can easily be stalled out of Stone Edges while Gligar sits there and uses Roost because Stone Edge does 40% damage at best, so only one Heracross variant can actually win. Heracross can only always OHKO with a +6, Life Orbed, Guts Boosted Stone Edge, but if you let it set up that much, that's not good.
• Mienshao: Choice Scarf Mienshao is extremely common. As far as I'm concerned, Mienshao will have to overpredict to actually defeat Gligar, and even then, Hidden Power Ice without a Life Orb does 65% damage maximum. It takes no damage from a U-turn, Gligar 2HKOs Mienshao with Earthquake, Mienshao only 5HKOs Gligar with Hi Jump Kick (usually its a 6HKO), and this is only assuming that Mienshao decided to use Hidden Power Ice in the first place, as Aerial Ace is taking a large precedent over the move for Heracross. Plus, Hidden Power Ice is only for Gligar, so this is a testament to it's bulk, right?
• Snorlax: Snorlax hates Toxic and a CB Adamant Return only 3HKOs, assuming it used Return. Defensive Curse with Rest sets up on it but nobody uses that set.
• Flygon: OK, a Choice Banded Outrage hurts, but it still only 3HKOs, it gets a free switch into any other move on any other set. Use Roost until Flygon is confused and Flygon will either be forced to swtich out or risk confusion. You should probably have a Dragon resist on your team regardless.
• Hitmontop: OK nobody likes Hitmontop but there is literally nothing it can do against Gligar.
• (Choice Band) Swampert: As embarrasing as this may seem, I once got Toxic Stalled by a Gligar when I was using Swampert. Waterfall was doing around 60%, Ice Punch did around 80% but Roost meant that it actually wasn't because Gligar removed its Flying-typing.
• Rhyperior: Sure it runs Ice Punch on a Choice Band set, but why? It's because of Gligar and nothing else. Too bad it still doesn't OHKO, Gligar gets a free switch into everything else (especially Earthquake), the defensive set is completely walled and Rhyperior hates getting hit by Toxic.
• Cobalion: Unless its running Hidden Power Ice it gets completely walled, and potentially 2HKOed.
• Bisharp: Gets completely walled. Earthquake 2HKOs and only a Life Orbed Adamant Sucker Punch 2HKOs at +2, and barely. Sucker Punch is very easy to play around, especially when most Bisharp only also run Low Kick, which is lucky if it manages to scratch it.
• Arcanine: What do you think? Easily walled and defeated.
• Scarfed Darmanitan and Victini: Takes a ton of damage from Earthquake. Scarfed Flare Blitz/V-Create 3HKOs, and even though Life Orbed/Choice Band variants 2HKO, the do that to every single non-resist in the game, and at the very least Gligar sometimes avoids a 2HKO from Jolly variants. It also gets a free switch in on Earthquakes, Rock Slides and Bolt Strikes.
• Machamp: Unlike most other Pokemon, Machamp is incapable of playing around Gligar with hax as a result of Gligar's bulk allowing it to not take much from confusion, a neutrality to Stone Edge rather than a weakness (something Crobat cannot boast), and an immunity to Toxic.
• Krookodile: Gets absolutely walled.
• Ambipom: Gets absolutely walled.

In addition, Gligar can get a free switch into Volt Switch, slowing the momentum of a Choiced Electric-type, is immune to Toxic unlike almost every other wall, does exceptional against stall because of this fact and its ability to take any hit without any problem and Toxic Stall them out, stops lower-tier stuff that may be seen in UU such as Scolipede, Escavalier (one of the few switches for it), and others. Gligar can also be a decent last-ditch effort for a myraid of Pokemon that it may be weak to the STABs of, such as Sharpedo who manages to barely 2HKO it, but in response, Earthquake does about 70% or it could spam Roost. Speaking of which, Roost is huge - unlike Ghost-types not named Sableye, it actually has reliable recovery, which allows it to continue its job of checking Fighting-types, and U-turn allows it to keep momentum. It also provides Stealth Rock, which it finds tons of opportunities to set up.

It's not the most amazing physical wall in the tier but I think it at least deserves to be B-tier, albiet barely - it walls a ton of Pokemon and I have had some very unfortunate experiences against them. Just because Gligar can't easily defeat some variants of Pokemon that are rarely seen or special attackers doesn't mean it sucks. If Pokemon are running Ice moves just because they need to hit Gligar hard I think it means something significant - I have personally really struggled to flat out eliminate Gligar, though I will admit I'm not really close to the best source to say this.

EDIT: I never said Curselax with Rest was common (I said the exact opposite, actually) but everything else I guess is true sorta.