Theorymon Discussion and Viability Ranking

[Leafshield]

Wow Leafshield, really interesting idea. While the Latias calcuilations have little merit, as Cobalion is not meant to switch into it anyway, the Venusaur calcs are awesome, and show that with HP investment Cobalion can become a perfect check to Venusaur, taking everything it commonly uses and crippling back with Thunder Wave. Also, Heatproof would allow speedy Cobalion to act as a perfect counter to DD Dragonite (which usually forgoes EQ in favor of Fire Punch or Extremespeed), and as an even better check to Dragon Dance Salamence and Choice Scarf Salamence (+1 LO-less EQ cannot OHKO Cobalion even after SR). Would be a really neat addition to the OU repertoire!

Thanks! I guess you are right about the Latias calls in hindsight, I guess my thought process there was moreso like "Hey look, Latias can't touch this dude!", but I do now realize that it's not as important as I had let on. But yeah, I figured people would like the Venusaur calc, as he is one of the most, if not THE most threatening sun sweepers in the meta. Knowing that you can take Hidden Power Fire comfortable even after a boost is fantastic, as you're now capable of tanking it and crippling the dino with paralysis.

I actually didn't think about D-Nite, and you are very right. Most DNite (especially on Sun teams) prefer to carry Fire Punch to hurt Ferro and Forretress, meaning that Cobalion can easily stomach the punch and attempt to TWave on Non-Lum variants and/or keep momentum with Volt Switch. Here's a calc for DD Nite's Fire Punch against the previously used 48 SpDef Jolly Cobalion:

252+ Atk Dragonite Outrage vs. 252 HP / 208+ Def Cobalion: 68-81 (17.61 - 20.98%) -- possible 7HKO

252+ Atk Dragonite Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 208+ Def Heatproof Cobalion: 56-68 (14.5 - 17.61%) -- 9HKO at best

That does jack shit. Even at +1...

+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Outrage vs. 252 HP / 208+ Def Cobalion: 102-121 (26.42 - 31.34%) -- possible 4HKO

+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 208+ Def Heatproof Cobalion: 86-102 (22.27 - 26.42%) -- possible 5HKO

Even in the sun and SR, Fire Punch is barely a 4HKO.

So yeah, I also agree that Cobalion would be a very useful counter to DD Dragons in the OU tier, and sun sweepers in general (sans Volcarona)

 

[Chou Toshio]

Chou did you not see Katakiri's calculations of Beat Up? Even if 2 of your Pokemon are dead or statused, Weavile's Beat Up still hits stronger than LO Alakazam's Psychic, contrary to what you stated. Outside of Skarmory and Forretress nothing could counter Weavile, so i am not sure what you mean by ''lack of power''.

Nope, didn't see the calcs. Holy shit. Ridiculous-- for some reason I was under the impression that Beat Up worked differently.

Though 1 ridiculous STAB move (which has the inferior coverage of weavile's 2 STABs as a sweeping attack) isn't going to remove all of weavile's overall problems. A "sweeper" who is 100% revenge killed by Scarf Terrak or Scizor, and ALSO can't switch into anything (and is SR weak) is always going to have a lot of trouble.

 

[GGengar]

What if Hail gave Ice Types a 50% Defense Boost?

Hail, while viable, is known for being notoriously inferior weather compared to Sand, Sun, and Rain. Hail gets no notable boosts outside of 100% accurate Blizzard, so why not give Hail a sort of defense boosting equivalent to Sand's 50% boost to Rock types Special Defense? Ice types generally have low defense stats so it isn't entirely out of the question.

Kyurem-B and Mamoswine benefit from this Defense Boost by having increased switchin opportunities. Both Pokemon are lethal once they are in, but in general have a difficult time switching in due to their ice typing. The defense boost would allow Mamoswine to switch in to every single Outrage locked Dragon in the game not named Kyurem-B or Haxorus and check it with Ice Shard as even a Banded Outrage from Dragonite never OHKO's with SR and the chip damage from Hail would break the scale.

Mamoswine

252 Atk Salamence Outrage vs. +1 0 HP / 4 Def Mamoswine: 162-192 (44.87 - 53.18%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Outrage vs. +1 0 HP / 4 Def Mamoswine: 204-242 (56.5 - 67.03%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Outrage vs. +1 0 HP / 4 Def Mamoswine: 264-312 (73.13 - 86.42%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Cloyster also has increased set-up opportunities and can act as a dedicated wall with its already titanic Defense stat. I imagine a defensive rapid spin set could be viable. What other options do you see? Do you think this is enough to give Hail a competitive edge?

 

[Laga]

well,

Glaceon in hail will definately be extremely good in RU imo. With it's extreme special attack and naturally good defensive bulk, it would be fantastic at tanking hits whilst healing up with Ice Body

 

[Psylink]

What if Zapdos could learn Hurricane?

It's a shame GF didn't allow Zapdos to learn Hurricane (since both Articuno and Moltres learn it), as it would have amazing coverage with just it's STABs. What I'm thinking about is would Zapdos outclass Thundurus-T as a rain sweeper? There are a few differences between the two (Thundurus-T gets Nasty Plot, has higher special attack, more speed, and Focus Blast, while Zapdos has Hurricane, more bulk, Roost, and Heat Wave), but I believe Zapdos would see higher usage, as it checks top threats such as Landorus, Breloom, and Scizor much more reliably than Thundurus-T. I think the most popular set would be something along the lines of a bulky Zapdos with Thunder, Hurricane, Roost, and HP Ice. Although I see the possibility of a sweeping Agility set.

Zapdos also gets Lightningrod from the Dream World.

 

[GCSChris]

Big post. I love where this discussion is going.

@ Roost Cresselia
That thing would be annoying as hell. It would be an amazing wall to say the least, although it still has the problem of sorta just staying in an taking hits, without being able to do that much offensively. But I mean… great wall.

@ Slack Off Snorlax
I don’t really think Snorlax would improve that much. While Slack Off makes sense and it obviously more reliable recovery than rest, I think that other walls like Jellicent(I know the two) , and even Blissey and Chansey do its job better. Of course Jellicent and Snorlax are a bit incomparable, but then again when you just compare them as walls, Jellicent, and other bulky Water types for that matter, have scald able to severely cripple offensive threats.

@ Meloetta starting in Pirouette forme
Its speed is clearly what it has going for its OU potential. I really like the idea of the mixed set, similar to the one used already, but as stated starting with that great speed could really change things. OU material without a doubt

Nasty Plot Gengar
I’ve actually had this thought myself; Gengar forces a TON of switches and this would, as Mosquiton said, allow Gengar to get to +2 quite often. I really like how it could become a wall breaker and a great late-game sweeper because of its amazing speed.
All of these calcs assume Gengar is Timid.

252 +2 SpAtk Gengar Shadow Ball vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Latias: 94.78% - 112.09% (68.75% chance to OHKO)

252 SpAtk Gengar Shadow Ball vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Latias: 47.8% - 56.87% (2-3 hits to KO)

Look at that power! After forcing a switch, there would not be much that could stop +2 Gengar.. It’s pretty funny, quite a few times I’ve thought, “What if that Disable was a Nasty Plot”. Come to think of it, it is a bit strange Gengar doesn’t get Nasty Plot isn’t it? I mean, he looks pretty nasty :P.

 

[Chou Toshio]

What if:

+ Hurricane?

Togekiss's Serene Grace would give Hurricane a 60% chance to cause Confusion. Add paralysis and we could have a terribly annoying force on our hands.

Unfortunately, Togekiss lacks Thunder or any water-type attacks outside of Water Pulse, so it wouldn't be the best rain abuser. Still, Hurricane Togekiss would have its own place in the OU meta I think.


Sample:

Modest
252 SPA 4 SPD 252 SPE
Life Orb
-Hurricane
-Tail Wind
-Nasty Plot
-Baton Pass / Aura Sphere

252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpD
Leftovers
-Hurricane
-Thunder Wave
-Nasty Plot
-Roost

 

[Leafshield]

You know, I've actually thought about Hurricane Togekiss before, and I really liked the idea. Not only does it pack plenty of power and perfect accuracy in rain, but it boasts a nifty 60% chance for confusion, which is always very annoying. It also gives Togekiss access to even more powerful Flying- / Fighting- coverage, which is fantastic in the standard metagame, hitting nearly everything for big damage. I see it as a nifty change, but I'm not exactly sure how amazing it would make Togekiss in the current metagame. In your first set, both Hurricane and Tailwind are available to Tornadus, a common sight on Rain teams. Tornadus also gets Prankster so Tailwind is always set up before it dies. Tornadus also has access to U-turn to keep momentum better, another advantage over Togekiss. But, Togekiss does still get access to Thunder Wave, giving it the niche of being able to slow down threats indefinitely instead of speeding its team up for 3 turns.

 

[casey90]

I have a great one What if Marvel Scale ignored passive damage from status effects? This would have literally one relevent change in milotic. With a toxic orb equipped, and a physically defensive spread milotic would have 394 Hp, 423 Def, and 286 Sp. Def. That coupled with phazing, Haze, and recovery would be one of the toughest pokemon in ou to break down.

 

[MicfiJasan]

@ Hurricane Zapdos:
Some cursory calcs on the Honkalculator showed that the set ShootinStarmie posted is indeed the best set (as in HP Ice>Heat Wave in general), although he can still go offensive. Offensively speaking, I was surprised to find out that the drop in Zapdos's SpAtk stat was largely fixed by the extra STAB move in Hurricane, since they both get pretty much the same amount of 2HKOs. The main decider between the Zappy and Thundy-T for me is the Hurricane vs. Focus Blast. Zapdos would be more able to handle Bulky Celebi, Defensive Gastrodon, and SubSeed Venusaur, while Thundurus-T would take SpDef Heatran, Magnezone, and Defensive Tyranitar better. The extra speed doesn't actually do too much for Thundy, as it only really allows him to speed tie Landorus-I (who OHKOs both if a physical variant) and guarantee to outspeed Volcarona (who's only a guaranteed OHKO on Zapdos unless Sun/Rocks are up). Defensively, it's pretty safe to assume Zappy wins all-around. The only real question would be: Would this happen with Lightningrod?

@ Rapid Spin Ferrothorn:
I totally thought of that Ferroseed sprite myself when I saw this thread. Again, liking the set. This would probably lower Forretress usage quite a bit, since Ferrothorn would now be able to do the exact same things, but dons a Fighting weakness (and Bug and Ice neutralities) for a Water, Electric, and Rock resists. Forretress would still have Volt Switch and Sturdy to help him out, but Ferrothorn's higher SpDef and resists would make him better against Rain Pokemon like Vaporeon, Gastrodon, Starmie, Jellicent and Jolteon, giving him ample opportunities to spin. It won't change his playstyle, but he would certainly use it.

@ Icicle Crash Kyurem-B:
Ferrothorn is the obvious improvement, but Icicle Crash would also allow him to hit Specially Defensive Celebi for a possible 1HKO, while Ice Beam is only a 3HKO. Not to mention it would be his strongest STAB move if used on the Substitute set. It would also be notable that he would have physical BoltBeam coverage coming off a 170 base Attack moreso than his STAB coverage. Does this make him Uber? Not necessarily. Steel-types are still his biggest issue, since he needs Fusion Bolt to hit them. Actually, I know it would seem like a waste, but ditching Dragon Claw and going Sub/Fusion Bolt/Icicle Crash/Earth Power with the Standard Substitute spread looks like it could be effective. In contrast to the last example, Ferrothorn would rise as it can tank an Earth Power well enough, and can take the other two thanks to his high defense, and smack Kyurem with Gyro Ball.

@ Head Smash/Brave Bird Aerodactyl:
If we give him Head Smash, we might as well talk about Brave Bird as well since, well, it follows similar benefits (swap a bit of power for great accuracy). Actually, adding Brave Bird appears to gain him more 2HKOs than Head Smash would, but both moves are great attacking types in their own right. A Choice Band set with Head Smash/Brave Bird/Earthquake/Aqua Tail can literally 2HKO all of OU bar Hippowdon and Donphan. Bronzong would rise as a hard counter, being only 3-hit by Aqua Tail and OHKOing with Gyro Ball. In addition, powerful Scarfers like Keldeo would give him problems. Without Brave Bird, Keldeo can switch-in on anything, outspeed, and OHKO with Surf. Even with Brave Bird, Keldeo is still a solid option for a revenge kill. Scarf Jirachi and Landorus-T also serve as solid checks, tanking at least one hit then OHKOing with the respective moves. In addition, without Choice Band, defensive Landorus-T, Forretress, and Ferrothorn all become great checks, capable of taking 2 hits while OKHOing in return.


Sorry for the long post, I tend to do that with these threads. I noticed a post about not posting new Pokemon with Drought/Drizzle/etc. Can we still respond to ones that were already posted (I kinda want to talk about Poliwrath in particular)? Also, I think it would be a good idea to put these notices in the OP. This thread is moving so fast that at least in these early stages where everyone has a new idea that announcements can get lost. Love these threads though, and this one is already a huge success.

 

[Mr Omgness]

Interestingly in the OM Stabmons all Pokemon get all the moves from their typing (no stat or ability modifications).

So in that meta Aerodactyl gets Rock Head Head Smash and Brave Bird. I made an analysis for it including some calcs.

Ability: Rock Head
Moveset 1: Choice Band
- Brave Bird
- Head Smash
- Earthquake
- Fire Fang/Ice Fang

Moveset 2: Hone Claws @ Life Orb/Focus Sash
- Brave Bird
- Head Smash
- Earthquake
- Hone Claws

Aerodactyl is finally ready to shine, after being bullied by Game Freak in giving it a practically useless ability and no decent Flying move StabMons turns things around for it.
Rock Head is now an invaluable asset to Aerodactyl as the Stabgod himself gave it Brave Bird AND Head Smash. That's a 120 BP and a 150 BP STAB move for the prehistorical ptero. Not only that but Flying and Rock have excellent coverage with his 3rd move: Earthquake hitting every type for atleast normal damage. A speed stat of 130 screams for a Choice Band, although one could prefer Life Orb to be able to switch moves.

The 4th move will be hardly used due to the high base power of his STAB moves and the good coverage they provide with Earthquake. You'll actually need a 4x weakness before it can do better damage than Head Smash or Brave Bird. Fire Fang is the best option vs Scizor, Ferrothorn & Forretress although these 3 will take a LOT from CB Brave Bird or Head Smash anyway (2HKO atleast). Bronzong is the most notable enemy to a set without Fire Fang. Aqua Tail's only purpose is to hit Ground/Rock mons harder like Rhyperior and Ice Fang is the best option for things 4x weak to Ice like Garchomp, Gliscor & Landorus but these mons will in most cases take a lot from Brave Bird or Head Smash anyway.

The Life Orb set trades some power for the ability to use something in the 4th moveslot: Taunt, Hone Claws, Stealth Rock, Substitute or Roost are options that come to mind. But Hone Claws is probably the best choice; after one Hone Claws boost Head Smash gets perfect accuracy and Aerodactyl now has an Attack stat as if it would have a Choice Band.

Another option is to run a Focus Sash with Hone Claws. With Aerodactyl's dazzling speed, recoil negation and immunity to Spikes and Sandstorm damage it can set up a Hone Claws if no SR are up and initiate a sweep. The Focus Sash can also serve to live a Scarf/Priority move.

Calcs vs Aerodactyl Counters:
Aerodactyl setup: Choice Band (or 1 Hone Claws boost), 252 Attack EVs, Speed boosting nature.
Brave Bird vs 252 HP/252 Def+ Hippowdon: 39-47%
Head Smash vs 252 HP/252 Def+ Forretress: 51-61%
Fire Fang vs 252 HP/252 Def+ Bronzong: 35-43%
Brave Bird vs 252 HP/252 Def+ Donphan: 41-49%
Earthquake vs 252 HP/252 Def+ Registeel: 42-50%
Aqua Tail vs 252 HP/252 Def+ Rhyperior (Solid Rock): 53-63%
Earthquake vs 252 HP/252 Def+ Rhyperior (Solid Rock): 29-35%

As you can see even the best Aerodactyl counters are nearing the 2HKO mark. Only priority and scarfers can safely stop it. Only Bronzong is a reliable switch-in, as it can come in on any move, doesnt mind hazards and can OHKO with Gyro Ball. Although after doing so Bronzong will be in a very low health range and a burn or flinch from Fire Fang can mess up it's day.

If Aerodactyl is running an attack boosting nature things get scarier for it’s defensive checks, but it will miss out on outspeeding some things notably: Timid Alakazam, Starmie and Raikou & Scarf Politoed and Magnezone. Also it shares the same speed stat with Jolteon, so a speed tie can be avoided by running a speed boosting nature.

Checks & Counters:
Bronzong is the best defensive counter to it, along with Rhyperior (if Aerodactyl doesn’t run Aqua Tail) but the latter is hardly seen in the meta, while Bronzong can OHKO with Gyro Ball. Due to it’s frailty a lot of attacks can revenge kill it but because of priority moves’ low base power they will need some prior damage as they wont OHKO, unless they come from powerhouses like CB Azumarill or Scizor. For example a LO Weavile’s Ice Shard will not OHKO and only has a small chance to do so after SR. Revenge killing it with a Scarfer is your best bet and putting up SR can prevent it from switching in and out again to put dents in your team.

 

[Legitimate Username]

What if Rotom got Motor Drive?

Considering that Rotom infiltrates electronic devices, metal appliances can't really float in the air, and Rotom's name is "motor" backwards, I was really suprised that he didn't get this from the Dream World. Overall, I don't think that this would make Rotom much more powerful, but a lot more versatile.

First of all, Levitate is a great ability for an electric type. Although Rotom-S would always use Motor Drive for obvious reasons, most of the other formes may be somewhat hesitant to give up their ground immunity. Rotom-C, who's grass typing allows it a ground neutrality, may be more likely to take the chance for a free speed boost, but Rotom-H will always want to keep Levitate due to a 4x ground weakness.

Since Rotom-H won't be changed much from this, Rotom-W is the only other viable forme in OU that'll have any benefit from the new ability. But as a bulky attacker, Levitate will still likely remain the preferred ability. If Spikes are on the field, Rotom-W can't bluff Levitate, allowing it to be freely targeted with Earthquake. But Motor Drive really can give it some more sweeping potential, especially on Rain teams. If it manages to nab a boost from a stray Thunderbolt or Volt Switch aimed at a water-type teammate, a Choice Specs Rotom-W could devastate the opponents with Hydro Pump and Thunder. While common scarfers can outspeed it even at +1, Rotom-W has great natural bulk, allowing it survive an attack or two before retaliating hard.

Overall, while Motor Drive wouldn't be game-breaking, it would allow Rotom-W to fulfill a better sweeping niche by potentially overcoming its relatively low speed, making it a more versatile threat in general.

 

[dice]

What if Metagross got Shift Gear?

AgiliGross is seen as an easily walled sweeper in the BW2 Metagame because it relies on its lackluster STAB's and coverage options to try and sweep without an attack boost. However, Shift Gear could provide Metagross a way to achieve in the OverUsed metagame. Shift Gear acts as a +1 Atk and +2 Spe boost which would help Metagross extremely. To try and use AgiliGross now would definitely require a Life Orb to do enough damage to any walls or pivot, but with Gear Grind he go forgo Life Orb and try out a few different items like Lum Berry. Gear Grind coupled with Metagross's cool move Meteor Mash could result in a +2 +2 in two turns with one turn where you're attacking.. it's pretty legit. Gear Grind fits in with the whole "Metagross is a computer / technological-type Pokemon" and it would make Metagross not as outclasses as it is in the current metagame. It would give Metagross a distinct niche, and it could become a formidable sweeper.

 

[Neliel]

What if Hail gave Ice Types a 50% Defense Boost?

Hail, while viable, is known for being notoriously inferior weather compared to Sand, Sun, and Rain. Hail gets no notable boosts outside of 100% accurate Blizzard, so why not give Hail a sort of defense boosting equivalent to Sand's 50% boost to Rock types Special Defense? Ice types generally have low defense stats so it isn't entirely out of the question.

ectectect

This type of question isnt allowed, i clearly said to only talk about moves and abilities, and this is a change in the game mechanism.

What if:

+ Hurricane?

Togekiss's Serene Grace would give Hurricane a 60% chance to cause Confusion. Add paralysis and we could have a terribly annoying force on our hands.

Unfortunately, Togekiss lacks Thunder or any water-type attacks outside of Water Pulse, so it wouldn't be the best rain abuser. Still, Hurricane Togekiss would have its own place in the OU meta I think.


Sample:

Modest
252 SPA 4 SPD 252 SPE
@Life Orb
-Hurricane
-Tail Wind
-Nasty Plot
-Baton Pass / Aura Sphere

252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpD
@Leftovers
-Hurricane
-Thunder Wave
-Nasty Plot
-Roost

I've tought about hurricane togekiss before, and even if the idea sound good in paper (i tought about a set like Sub roost twave hurricane ) i dont know if it would be that spammable. Togekiss is stealth rock weak, so if you want to use it you probably need a spinner, and the fact that its weak to eletric doesnt help it either.. rain teams already have problems with thundurus ect, and togekiss would be redundant. Anyway i think that togekiss+sp def rachi would form the most frustating combo to face, being able to paralize/confuse/flinche to death everything, and they share great defensive sinergy too, with togekiss being able to switch in into earthquakes and jirachi taking ice beams and stone edge... definetely something i would use.
Ps. i noticed that hurricane only has 16 pp, isnt it a problem? i remember togekiss randomly spamming air slash, i guess you have to be more conservative with hurricane because otherwhise you cant hit anything.

Sorry for the long post, I tend to do that with these threads. I noticed a post about not posting new Pokemon with Drought/Drizzle/etc. Can we still respond to ones that were already posted (I kinda want to talk about Poliwrath in particular)? Also, I think it would be a good idea to put these notices in the OP. This thread is moving so fast that at least in these early stages where everyone has a new idea that announcements can get lost. Love these threads though, and this one is already a huge success.

Yeah its ok, afterall it was my fault to not write it in the op. Ill update it right know.

 

[saxtonhale]

What if Metagross got Shift Gear?

AgiliGross is seen as an easily walled sweeper in the BW2 Metagame because it relies on its lackluster STAB's and coverage options to try and sweep without an attack boost. However, Shift Gear could provide Metagross a way to achieve in the OverUsed metagame. Shift Gear acts as a +1 Atk and +2 Spe boost which would help Metagross extremely. To try and use AgiliGross now would definitely require a Life Orb to do enough damage to any walls or pivot, but with Gear Grind he go forgo Life Orb and try out a few different items like Lum Berry. Gear Grind coupled with Metagross's cool move Meteor Mash could result in a +2 +2 in two turns with one turn where you're attacking.. it's pretty legit. Gear Grind fits in with the whole "Metagross is a computer / technological-type Pokemon" and it would make Metagross not as outclasses as it is in the current metagame. It would give Metagross a distinct niche, and it could become a formidable sweeper.

This. I'm still amazed that a poke with base 135 Attack is considered mediocre in today's OU meta. This would help it shine like it used to.

 

[lousy918]

What if Metagross got Shift Gear?

What if Metagross got Shift Gear?

lol
What if Snorlax got Guts?
Guts would be activated even when Snorlax is asleep, giving an uninvested Snorlax an Attack stat of 384, 1 point higher than a neural fully-invested base 125. This would make a RestTalk set much more viable and reduces the need for a Choice Band.
An offensive set could use a Flame Orb and Facade (Facade is not recommended for defensive sets as it is not boosted by sleep), resulting in a 140 BP moves coming off an Attack stat of 525, even hitting harder than powerhouses such as Medicham and Kyurem-B.
This also allows Snorlax to check Flame Body Chandelure more effectively, as it no longer minds a burn.

-1 252+ Atk Guts Snorlax Facade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 166-196 (54.6 - 64.47%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-1 252+ Atk Pure Power Medicham Hi Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 142-168 (46.71 - 55.26%) -- 11.72% chance to 2HKO

-1 252+ Atk Kyurem-B Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 132-156 (43.42 - 51.31%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

 

[noobcubed]

@ pink blobs getting scald
I'd use this, i'd even dump natural cure for serene grace to maximise its effect. For me, chansey would become better than blissey as it would actually be a viable mixed wall with the ability to burn physical attackers switching in. Only conkeldurr would really counter blissey and chansey with 100% certainty, and maybe bulky attacking fire types who can take a scald like victini.

@ drizzle poliwrath: subpunch is the way to go as it allows wrath to beat t-tar. If you get lucky with hypnosis you can get a free sub, a la pre-technician breloom.

Here's another one: what if smeargle had prankster? This would allow smeargle to get off a smashpass against mons with priority, even with a broken focus sash, something that he is currently unable to do. Only extremespeed would stop him getting that pass off once he has prankster spored an opponent. Plus a prankster taunt means he is no longer taunt bait.

 

[alexwolf]

Btw, Scald on Chansey / Blissey would be amazing! Use it with Serene Grace and you have a move that burns 60% of the time, can't be Taunted, and gives coverage against Pokemon such as special Landorus and Heatran, all Pokemon that Blissey checks well. The lack of Natural Cure could easily be mitigated by using Aromatherapy, and i could see a moveset of S-Toss / Scald / Softboiled / Aromatherapy working very well, solving one of Blissey's problems by cutting drastically the list of safe switch-ins to it.

As for Prankster Smeargle i only have one things to say: BROKEN. Priority Spore + Priority Shell Smash + White Herb + Priority Baton Pass + Strong sweeper = GG OU. Not even priority would be able to stop this beast.

 

[Prinz]

I have to quote alexwolf on this, Smeargle is not already a bad pokemon and if it gets Prankster it would be really broken. Smeargle can already setup on the mons which are slower than it (Hippowdon, Jellicent, Blissey for example) some annoying things like Shell Smash and if it has Prankster it would setup on almost every mon. Probably it wouldn't allowed even in the Ubers tier.

 

[Houndoomsday]

I have to quote alexwolf on this, Smeargle is not already a bad pokemon and if it gets Prankster it would be really broken. Smeargle can already setup on the mons which are slower than it (Hippowdon, Jellicent, Blissey for example) some annoying things like Shell Smash and if it has Prankster it would setup on almost every mon. Probably it wouldn't allowed even in the Ubers tier.

No, Smeargle is pretty bad. With Prankster it shoots straight into Ubers, but as it stands it is just a bad gimmick. It really can't do much other pokemon can do better.

 

[Prinz]

No, Smeargle is pretty bad. With Prankster it shoots straight into Ubers, but as it stands it is just a bad gimmick. It really can't do much other pokemon can do better.

I meant, it isn't too bad. Remember that it has the largest moverpool in the game and with Prankster it would be too strong, as you and I already said. Even without Prankster tbh it has its quality in BW2, it's one of the best Shell Smash user available thanks to Spore and it's always used in Baton Pass chain based team, so it isn't completely useless.

 

[blitzlefan]

What if Ferrothorn got Roar?

At the moment, Ferrothorn is an excellent check to a wide variety of threats, but Substitute users can often take advantage of it. Ferrothorn's relatively low offensive presence and the fact that Ferrothorn doesn't always run the necessary attacking move to deal with Substitute users means that it can end up set-up bait for Pokemon such as Magnezone and Dragonite, and if we move up into the Ubers tier, Zekrom and Latias as well. However, with Roar, Ferrothorn can deal with these threats, forcing even more switches than usual and abusing the entry hazards that it sets up, making it a one-Pokemon wrecking crew. Furthermore, Ferrothorn can act as a check to set-up sweepers as well, as it will usually have enough bulk to stomach an attack and phaze out boosted threats. Though Ferrothorn suffers from 4MSS, Roar would be an excellent addition to its movepool, giving it further utility.

I'll add to this if I have time (getting called for dinner right now.)

 

[GCSChris]

Prankster Smeargle
Instant ban to Ubers. Priority spore, baton pass, Shell Smash. WOW.

@Scald Chansey/Blissey
Oh, you thought scald was broken? Try doubling the burn chance. This would be crazy, as the pink blobs could now handle Physical threats. This would be very interesting, as physical threats like Terrakion wouldn't be able to switch in on it.

 

[Leafshield]

Prankster Smeargle

Well, all I can say is that Smeargle would end up being Uber almost immediately. I mean, priority Spore, Spikes, Baton Pass, even Destiny Bond is fucking crazy, easily putting a Pokémon on the opposing side out of commision with sleep or killing it altogether. It also allows Smeargle to become an even better Baton Passer than before, effortlessly passing Shift Gears and Shell Smashes after Sporing the opponent and passing it off to a bulky sweeper. In my opinion, it would break the Pokémon completely.

As far as Scald Blobs, it sounds pretty fucking good. A 60% burn chance gives the blobs a fantastic chance to completely cripple the physical attackers that threaten them. I could see Psychock being used a little more to combat the blobs, as well as Lum Berries on the more popular physical attackers, such as Dragonite, Tyranitar, and Garchomp. I could also see SubSD variants of Chomp being pretty popular, as I'm pretty sure that Blissy would need more than one Scald to break Chomp's subs. All in all, interesting yet combatable change.

 

[M BLADE]

What if Latias got Magic Bounce?

We have solid defenses, Recover/Roost, and a very good typing with lots of resistances. Calm Mind would be standard, since Latias would not have to worry about status, Taunt, phazing... it could even go mono attacking, with a free slot to do whatever it pleases.
It would make Tyranitar (and Pursuit in general) even more popular, since would be the only thing capable of taking it reliably throughout the match.
Hell, it could even use Reflect Type to troll nearly everything in the metagame without worries of status or whatever.