Theorymon Discussion and Viability Ranking

[Gary]

What if Hydreigon got Nasty Plot?

Sure, it's still slow, but with proper support, this thing kills everything in existence and more. Do you want to know what Pokemon takes the least amount of damage from a +2 Dragon Pulse in OU?

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Meloetta: 247-292 (61.13 - 72.27%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

And it still dies to two Dragon Pulses. Hydreigon would go from being un-counterable to unstoppable. The only factor setting Hydreigon back is its underwhelming speed stat, but then again, Sub + Nasty Plot will protect it from revenge killers and priority. All it needs is Dragon Pulse and Focus Blast to KO and 2HKO everything in the meta. There really isn't much more to say about this set, as it's pretty self-explanatory. All it needs is paralysis support or the absence of revenge killers/Mach Punch. I doubt NP would make Hydreigon a top tier Pokemon, but it would easily be one of the most dangerous Pokemon in OU, and any team lacking a reliable answer to it late game will always find Hydreigon sweeping their team. It's speed would keep it from being utterly broken. Fire Blast can be used if you have something on your team to handle the pink blobs and Heatran, Roost if you kill off all the steel-types and pink blobs.

Hydreigon @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Modest Nature
- Substitute
- Nasty Plot
- Dragon Pulse
- Focus Blast / Fire Blast / Roost

 

[Chou Toshio]

ALL DRAGON POST!! FUCK THE FAIRIES!!

Nasty Hydreigon-- Hydreigon's big problem isn't power, it's speed. Nasty Plot Hydreigon wouldn't have the bulk nor the speed to really sweep with its additional power. With nothing stopping even non-scarf Landorus, Keldeo, Landorus-I (3 most influential offensive pokes) from coming in and one-shotting it, Nasty Plot Hydreigon isn't going to go far as a sweeper. Nasty Plot would not be a bad option, but it would get used in OU just about as much as Swords Dance Haxorus (read: Not that much).

Magic Bounce Latias-- Obviously this thing would be pretty sick. However, it would suffer from many of the same problems as Espeon. Better bulk is great (as is more useful resistances), but NO BATON PASS (ie. no way of stopping TTar from switching in and killing it) would make it significantly more vulnerable than Espeon to TTar and Scizor.


Here's a couple to add:

Would Tinted Lens be enough to make

OU?

Pros: Perfect STAB. Outrage (and D-meteor) would have flawless 1 move coverage on a STAB 120 attack. Fuck prediction.

Cons: Flygon in OU is about as strong as the average Smogon user irl.

@ Choice Band
Jolly
Tinted Lens
4HP 252ATK 252SPE
-Outrage

...
...
...

Nah, jk

@ Choice Band
Jolly
Tinted Lens
4HP 252ATK 252SPE
-Outrage
-U-Turn
-Earthquake
-Fire Punch


If

got Serene Grace, would it see much use over Multi-Scale?


Something like:

Serene Grace
Leftovers or Life Orb
Rash / Modest
4 ATK 252 SpA 252 SPE
-Hurricane
-Thunder
-Agility / Dragon Dance
-Waterfall / Roost

Hurricane with a 60% chance to Confuse, Thunder with a 60% chance to Paralyze, and Waterfall with a 40% chance to Flinch-- all boosted one way or another by Rain.



edit: Whoops, sorry Pocket. But everyone has heard of the tinted lens Flygon theory by now... I've been talking about it since DPPt

 

[Pocket]

Chou Toshio, only one new theorymon per post! That said I really dig both of your dragon entries! Tinted Lens CB Flygon! That would surely distinguish Flygon from the rest of the physical dragon mons.

Let's compare CB Flygon's Tinted Lens Outrage with CB Kyurem-B's Outrage:

---Tinted Lens Flygon---
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Flygon Outrage vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 180-213 (51.13 - 60.51%) -- 89.06% chance to 2HKO

---Kyurem-B---
252+ Atk Choice Band Kyurem-B Outrage vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 132-156 (37.5 - 44.31%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

LOL Kyurem-B lost in the power game!

Serene Grace Dragonite sounds like a bitch rain abuser, too! I think a defensive spread would work better for your set, since it doesn't have Marvel Scale to buffer damage anymore, and this set aims to take down Pokemon through multiple turns of hax rather than through brute force. Definitely Leftovers over Life Orb, since Paraflinch + Confusion will give Dragonite many free turns of recovery.

 

[Neliel]

ALL DRAGON POST!! FUCK THE FAIRIES!!


Here's a couple to add:

Would Tinted Lens be enough to make

OU?

Pros: Perfect STAB. Outrage (and D-meteor) would have flawless 1 move coverage on a STAB 120 attack. Fuck prediction.

Cons: Flygon in OU is about as strong as the average Smogon user irl.

@ Choice Band
Jolly
Tinted Lens
4HP 252ATK 252SPE
-Outrage
-U-Turn
-Earthquake
-Fire Punch

lol this would be better than garchomp... no safe switch for it, even skarmory is 2koed ( 252 Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Flygon Outrage vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 139-165 (42.5 - 50.45%) -- 50% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock ) only leaving pdef hippo, lando-t and slowbro as checks.. but for these there is u-turn! The loss of levitate its bad however, the immunity to spikes and toxic spikes was good, without it it cant freely spam u-turn like it does now. It doesnt have stealth rock so garchomp would still be used as a lead, also thanks to its better bulk, but i think that scarf and cb set would be done better by flygon. flygon + rotom-w would beat hippo, lando-t, slowbro and all the bulky waters that flygon cant muscle trough.. predicting it to be a common duo!

What if Latias got Magic Bounce?

We have solid defenses, Recover/Roost, and a very good typing with lots of resistances. Calm Mind would be standard, since Latias would not have to worry about status, Taunt, phazing... it could even go mono attacking, with a free slot to do whatever it pleases.
It would make Tyranitar (and Pursuit in general) even more popular, since would be the only thing capable of taking it reliably throughout the match.
Hell, it could even use Reflect Type to troll nearly everything in the metagame without worries of status or whatever.

Sadly, latias will still lose to commons stealth rockers such as ferrothorn (unless you use stuff like max def) tyranitar, lando-t (they u-turn while you switch in and then they screw you away) jirachi, heatran (toxic), toxic spikes tentacruel will surely burn you with scald, garchomp, mamoswine and so on... levitate is also a good ability for latias, letting it check lando-n and also making it immune to spikes and toxic spikes, so afterall i dont think it will be a great addiction. they will just use more sr ttar, chomp and mamoswine in order to beat you or simply a cb scizor with pursuit and you wont be able to do your job.

 

[Patolegend!]

What if Moltres got Magic Guard?

Take away its weakness to sand and Stealth Rock, and this thing becomes great in all weathers. Checking Rain teams with ferocious Hurricanes, and Sun with boosted Fire Blasts and HP Ground to take out Heatran.

A defensive set would now counter RP Landorus-I as well, while its water weakness and 4x weakness to rock would keep it in check.

What do you guys think?

 

[bobbyvaporeon]

What if Moltres got Magic Guard?

Take away its weakness to sand and Stealth Rock, and this thing becomes great in all weathers. Checking Rain teams with ferocious Hurricanes, and Sun with boosted Fire Blasts and HP Ground to take out Heatran.

A defensive set would now counter RP Landorus-I as well, while its water weakness and 4x weakness to rock would keep it in check.

What do you guys think?

The Purpose of the thread isn't "let's take a Pokemon that's only downside it Stealth Rock and give it magic guard!" This would be pretty broken, so avoids suggestions like this.

 

[alexwolf]

The Purpose of the thread isn't "let's take a Pokemon that's only downside it Stealth Rock and give it magic guard!" This would be pretty broken, so avoids suggestions like this.

Moltres's downsides are not only SR. As an offensive Pokemon it has very low Speed and is thus outsped by most other offensive Pokemon. Also due to its common weaknesses in Water, Rock, and Electric moves, most offensive Pokemon can OHKO it. Finally, as a defensive Pokemon Moltres doesn't have so good bulk. What i want to say is that no way Moltres would be broken with Magic Guard, it would just become a very good Pokemon in OU. Great wallbreaker for rain teams with the Specs set, great late game cleaner for rain teams with the Agility set, and great staller and defensive Pokemon that counters/checks many top-tier threats (Landorus, Lucario, Conkeldurr, Breloom, Scizor, Volcarona, Venusaur, Celebi, Ferrothorn)on every kind of team.

Also shurtugal, both your suggestions would break Terrakion, and i think we are supposed to talk about changes that would make somewhat underused Pokemon more viable, not top-tier Pokemon into broken things. It's not like Water Absorb on Terrakion brings any discussion oportunities as the only respsonse you can get to this is 'Terrakion would be broken''.

 

[Patolegend!]

The Purpose of the thread isn't "let's take a Pokemon that's only downside it Stealth Rock and give it magic guard!" This would be pretty broken, so avoids suggestions like this.

What if Terrakion got Water Absorb?

It wouldn't fear Scald burns and it would be quite potent against Rain teams since they'd have to rely on other means of damaging him. He'd still be weak to Celebi / Breloom / Reu / etc, but he'd also be much more potent since he can come in on Rotom-W much easier and even regain some of his health if he comes in on those always-burn scalds.

I'd think he'd be suspected, but I myself am not certain he'd be banned. I mean, he wouldn't lose too much of his usual counters or checks, anyway.

Also, if Terrakion got Ice Punch, he'd be able to easily clean Landorus, Latios, Latias, and Gliscor. Do you guys think this'd make him broken? I certainly would, but it's up for discussion.

Alright, alright, calm down...

Moltres's downsides are not only SR. As an offensive Pokemon it has very low Speed and is thus outsped by most other offensive Pokemon. Also due to its common weaknesses in Water, Rock, and Electric moves, most offensive Pokemon can OHKO it. Finally, as a defensive Pokemon Moltres doesn't have so good bulk. What i want to say is that no way Moltres would be broken with Magic Guard, it would just become a very good Pokemon in OU. Great wallbreaker for rain teams with the Specs set, great late game cleaner for rain teams with the Agility set, and great staller and defensive Pokemon that counters/checks many top-tier threats (Landorus, Lucario, Conkeldurr, Breloom, Scizor, Volcarona, Venusaur, Celebi, Ferrothorn)on every kind of team.

This is more of what I was aiming for. I think that Moltres has a great typing that can help and hinder it in OU - and with Magic Guard it would become a great poke, and nothing more. It definitely wouldn't be broken, and could easily be kept in check, as Alexwolf has pointed out.

 

[GCSChris]

I laughed so hard...

Cons: Flygon in OU is about as strong as the average Smogon user irl.

Nasty Plot Hydreigon
Obviously it would be nice, but Hydreigon still has the speed problem. That's why i think Specs would be kinda better because you can just slam something with a Draco meteor on a switch rather than setting up, and having most things in the tier outspeed is major problem.

Magic Bounce Latias
Idk if this would be that good either. Sure Magic bounce is an amazing ability, but T-tar is still a problem. Basically every problem Espeon has, this would have, despite its extra bulk.

@Tinted Lens Flygon
Wow, those calcs are convincing; Banded Outrage is basically all this would do. The fact that it can out power Kyurem b is pretty impressive.

Serene Grace Dragonite
This is really interesting, but thunder and hurricane are both really dependent on rain. Multiscale is really what make Dragonite amazing. The fact that he can always set up one Dragon Dance is really just amazing, or he can revenge kill dragons (all assuming no Stealth Rock). That said, this set would be really good, but I would say that Jirachi does the job better. A bulky EV spread would definitely be required in order for this set to work.

 

[Shurtugal]

What if Latias's ability was Multiscale?

It could set up CM much better, but it'd still be weak to Zor, Tar, etc. (unless at full HP, that is). Discuss, really! Its still trappable, but this is an ability I think Latias could easily have gotten in DW if Nintendo decided to. Hell, imagine what it could do in UBERS with Soul Dew. Multiscale'd also be great for stall.

 

[Chan]

What if:

+ Hurricane?

Togekiss's Serene Grace would give Hurricane a 60% chance to cause Confusion. Add paralysis and we could have a terribly annoying force on our hands.

Unfortunately, Togekiss lacks Thunder or any water-type attacks outside of Water Pulse, so it wouldn't be the best rain abuser. Still, Hurricane Togekiss would have its own place in the OU meta I think.


Sample:

Modest
252 SPA 4 SPD 252 SPE
Life Orb
-Hurricane
-Tail Wind
-Nasty Plot
-Baton Pass / Aura Sphere

252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpD
Leftovers
-Hurricane
-Thunder Wave
-Nasty Plot
-Roost

This is interesting and certainly gives some more flair to the Finch. Something else that could be pondered but probably isn't as useful is Aeroblast Togekiss. Togekiss got Super Luck from the Dream World which is mostly outclassed by Serene Grace, but if you were feeling luck, the high critical hit rate on Aeroblast combined with the increased chance from Super Luck could provide some results.

Hurricane however is a lot more interesting and could definitely make Parafusion Togekiss all the more viable and annoying.

 

[Leafshield]

Man, this thread is getting a lot of replies! I'm not gonna lie, it's pretty cool to see all these ideas thrown around. But I do see a problem: The majority of these theorymons are about already really good Pokémon: these are not the Pokémon we're supposed to be trying to make more viable in the OU metagame with these theories. Another thing I noticed is a complete lack of flavor in a lot of these theorymons. Terrakion, for instance, has no business having Water Absorb as an ability. There's nothing in the Pokémon's flavor or design that suggests that change to be rational. Also, I'm not calling anyone out, this is not the only post I'm talking about here; there seem to be plenty of these.

Now, I know I'm not like, the person who runs this thread or anything, but I think I have mentioned before that we should try to better centralize the thread in order for more conversation to be made other than "this would be broken" or something of that nature. We should also focus on making our theorymons more open-ended, so we can actually talk about them. I admit, I may be guilty of this earlier in the thread, but its never too late to change, right?

Well, I've been thinking long and hard about a Pokémon that has its merits, but has just not found its place in the OU tier. I've perused Smogon for a minute (through all of the tiers to see what mons could use a little something) looking for Pokémon who could actually use a buff and would benefit greatly from it, not just a Pokémon who's already spectacular who would sorta kinda like having some OP ability. With that, I found a tiny little gem in UU by the name of:

Claydol​

Claydol is notoriously not-so-good in UU, and for good reason: its mixed bag of a typing leaves it with some horrible weaknesses in Water-, Grass-, Ice-, Bug-, Ghost-, and Dark- Type moves, but resistances to Electric-, Rock-, Psychic-, Fighting-, and Ground-. It's defensive stats, while decent, are near crippled due to its lack of recovery and low HP stat. It's offensive capabilities are nill, as is its pretty bad base 75 Speed. All in all, not the most impressive Pokémon at first glance.

But, what Claydol does have is access to Stealth Rocks, Rapid Spin, dual screens, and Explosion, making it a very ideal lead Pokémon that doesn't take shit from Terrakion (watch out for Taunt, though.). It's also a pretty decent supporter in sand, funtioning as a pretty decent defensive pivot due to its immunity to Volt Switch. In this light, it looks really, really decent.

But, there is one issue: Claydol is without a form of recovery outside of (you guessed it!) Rest. This makes Claydol easy to wear down and less capable of doing multiple jobs for its team in one match. But, there is something that can fix this, which leads to my theorymon:

What if Claydol got Recover?

Claydol getting recover would be a boon to the temple doll's arsenal: its decidedly good base 105 / 120 defenses would see some good use now that it can heal off the chip damage it takes. It can also better PP stall the opponent, most notably Terrakion, who fails to OHKO the doll with either CC or Stone Edge with proper defense investment. Recover in general would help Claydol become the good defensive Pokémon it was always meant to be.

Of course, there are downsides to this. Now, Claydol suffers from major 4MSS; it would really want to carry Stealth Rock / Rapid Spin / Psychic / Recover / Toxic / Explosion / Earth Power, but it just has to settle for either complete offensive waste or a decently capable offensive pivot that lacks Rapid Spin. Also, Recover doesn't outright fix all of Claydol's problems; it's still completely demolished by rain, being ripped apart by Rain-Boosted Hydro Pumps, and still taunted by Sun, getting pretty much raped by Volcarona, Venusaur, and other Sun Sweepers. I think Claydol would find its niche in Sand or Weatherless offense, as a bulky supporter who can set up Rocks and Spin, and as a screens setter, respectively.

Anyone else have thoughts on the addition of Recovery to Claydol's arsenal?

 

[ciaranroy]

What if Shuckle got Leech Seed?

Shuckle is nigh impossible to OHKO, and its only real downsides are lack of recovery and its pitiful HP stat. But, with Leech Seed, its terrible HP becomes a bonus, as it recieves huge amounts of HP from Leech Seed, and with Toxic, it could really wear down the opponent quickly. Throw sand into the mix, and we have a veritable stall Titan on our hands. Of course, it would be useless against Ferrothorn, but it can be cleanly destroyed by Magnezone. It would still be destroyed by Taunt, but it would make an interesting addition to the metagame.

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

Claydol getting recover would be good for it in UU but in OU i dont see exactly what would be its niche. Donphan would still be the superior ground type spinner because it can beat ttar, a pokemon claydol loses to. Donphan can also take on scizor and is capable of switching in random u-turns from everything something claydol cant do. However claydol posses the ability to switch in sheer force landorus-i (as long as it lacks u-turn) and immunity to spikes, toxic spikes and ground moves and obvious the new access to recover. Still donphan better physical bulk, lack of psychic typing and better offensive presence allows it to take on a larger number of threats.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

Having played with Claydol, I would say that it would definitely help Claydol, but I am doubting it would pull it up to OU use even as a niche Pokemon. While Claydol is great for walling Terrakion, after that it's use falls drastically, being pursuit and u-turn bait, unable to do anything vs common spinners outside of Toxic on Donphan. Worse yet, with just the tiniest amount of damage, CB or Swords Dance Terrakion can 2 and 1HKO respectively with X-Scissor, despite being the foretold counter.

Its one of those stange cases where I think Donphan would outclass it. What Claydol honestly needs is an evolution.

 

[George Eliot]

What if Cresselia got Will-o-wisp?

As everyone knows, Cressy, despite walling 90% of the metagame, is usually an inferior choice outside of Sun due to being setup fodder for virtually everything. Terrible 4MSS doesn't help either. Will-o-wisp changes all that. Suddenly Cresselia has a spammable and effective move which cripples its nemesis, Tyranitar, and has very few safe switchins in the metagame. I'd predict its usage to rise fairly drastically to lower/mid-OU, or even further if Sun correspondingly rose in usage. Lum Berry or Sub might become more popular options on physical attackers, Tyranitar (particularly CB Tar) would invest heavily in Speed, and the metagame would shift somewhat away from speed-based offense towards balance. It would be very interesting to say the least to give the metagame a useful wall which is capable of handling the majority of purely offensive strategies by itself.

MoonDuck @ Leftovers
Bold Nature, 248 HP / 184 Def / 76 SpDef
- Moonlight
- Will-o-wisp
- Sunny Day
- Psyshock

Oh yeah please someone suggest Recover as well so we can have the ultimate fuck off duck for dealing with KeldTarLando?

 

[Chou Toshio]

^Someone did suggest recovery cress already. Will-o-Wisp Cress would be absolutely amazing though-- it would take care of 2 of Cress's big problems with 1 move. 1) Make it FEARSOME-- WoW would give Cress something to do that actually hurts stuff. 2) Screw over ALL its major counters (which Cress outspeeds, derp).

@Claydol-- Recover wouldn't help fix Claydol's 2 major weaknesses:
1) 2 Many common weaknesses (Recovery don't mean shit if you get 1-2 shot by more than half the pokes in the tier)
2) TOO WEAK Claydol struggles even in UU mostly because it's just too weak to threaten much.


Moving on.

What if

got WEATHER BALL?

This makes sense flavor-wise since half of Dragonair's dex entries are about it controlling the weather-- and yet it never does. It doesn't have anything to do with Weather strategically. So, we add weatherball to its move pool.

Life Orb Multiscale Mild76 Atk / 252 SpA / 180 Spe

~Hurricane
~Weather Ball
~Superpower / Earthquake
~ExtremeSpeed / Roost / Draco Meteor

In DPPt, Dragons could always run Dragon + Fire coverage mostly without fear of its effectiveness-- but with Sun and Rain constantly flipping back and forth, this became incredibly unreliable. Of course pokes like Dragonite, Salamence, and Hydreigon still use Fire Blast, but it's not nearly as reliable.

Step in Weatherball. Weatherball gives you essentially STAB FIRE in Sun, and STAB WATER in rain, letting you smash those Steel-types regardless of sun or rain (though it has to be one or the other).
It's also a devastating Rock attack under sand. It almost always has good coverage when paired with one of Dragonite's STAB attacks.

 

[GCSChris]

@ Recover Cladol, it would obviously be better and IMO probably a very good UU pokemon, but in OU It really wouldn't be that good. Like SmashBrosBrawl said, Donphan kinda does everything better, because it can deal with OU threats like T-tar. Donphan also has a better attack stat, so he is able to deal actual damage to opposing pokes.

 

[Hemp Man]

What if Gyarados got Roost?

Gyarados has a good defensive type, and decent bulk once you factor Intimidate. But RestTalk isn't the most reliable form of healing this gen. Roost would help Gyarados repeatably switch into stuff like Special Landours.

 

[Explorer]

Man, this thread is getting a lot of replies! I'm not gonna lie, it's pretty cool to see all these ideas thrown around. But I do see a problem: The majority of these theorymons are about already really good Pokémon: these are not the Pokémon we're supposed to be trying to make more viable in the OU metagame with these theories. Another thing I noticed is a complete lack of flavor in a lot of these theorymons. Terrakion, for instance, has no business having Water Absorb as an ability. There's nothing in the Pokémon's flavor or design that suggests that change to be rational. Also, I'm not calling anyone out, this is not the only post I'm talking about here; there seem to be plenty of these.

Now, I know I'm not like, the person who runs this thread or anything, but I think I have mentioned before that we should try to better centralize the thread in order for more conversation to be made other than "this would be broken" or something of that nature. We should also focus on making our theorymons more open-ended, so we can actually talk about them. I admit, I may be guilty of this earlier in the thread, but its never too late to change, right?

Well, I've been thinking long and hard about a Pokémon that has its merits, but has just not found its place in the OU tier. I've perused Smogon for a minute (through all of the tiers to see what mons could use a little something) looking for Pokémon who could actually use a buff and would benefit greatly from it, not just a Pokémon who's already spectacular who would sorta kinda like having some OP ability. With that, I found a tiny little gem in UU by the name of:

Claydol​

Claydol is notoriously not-so-good in UU, and for good reason: its mixed bag of a typing leaves it with some horrible weaknesses in Water-, Grass-, Ice-, Bug-, Ghost-, and Dark- Type moves, but resistances to Electric-, Rock-, Psychic-, Fighting-, and Ground-. It's defensive stats, while decent, are near crippled due to its lack of recovery and low HP stat. It's offensive capabilities are nill, as is its pretty bad base 75 Speed. All in all, not the most impressive Pokémon at first glance.

But, what Claydol does have is access to Stealth Rocks, Rapid Spin, dual screens, and Explosion, making it a very ideal lead Pokémon that doesn't take shit from Terrakion (watch out for Taunt, though.). It's also a pretty decent supporter in sand, funtioning as a pretty decent defensive pivot due to its immunity to Volt Switch. In this light, it looks really, really decent.

But, there is one issue: Claydol is without a form of recovery outside of (you guessed it!) Rest. This makes Claydol easy to wear down and less capable of doing multiple jobs for its team in one match. But, there is something that can fix this, which leads to my theorymon:

What if Claydol got Recover?

Claydol getting recover would be a boon to the temple doll's arsenal: its decidedly good base 105 / 120 defenses would see some good use now that it can heal off the chip damage it takes. It can also better PP stall the opponent, most notably Terrakion, who fails to OHKO the doll with either CC or Stone Edge with proper defense investment. Recover in general would help Claydol become the good defensive Pokémon it was always meant to be.

Of course, there are downsides to this. Now, Claydol suffers from major 4MSS; it would really want to carry Stealth Rock / Rapid Spin / Psychic / Recover / Toxic / Explosion / Earth Power, but it just has to settle for either complete offensive waste or a decently capable offensive pivot that lacks Rapid Spin. Also, Recover doesn't outright fix all of Claydol's problems; it's still completely demolished by rain, being ripped apart by Rain-Boosted Hydro Pumps, and still taunted by Sun, getting pretty much raped by Volcarona, Venusaur, and other Sun Sweepers. I think Claydol would find its niche in Sand or Weatherless offense, as a bulky supporter who can set up Rocks and Spin, and as a screens setter, respectively.

Anyone else have thoughts on the addition of Recovery to Claydol's arsenal?

Hmm, interesting thought. Claydol absolutely has 4MSS. I would probably most commonly run something like Rapid Spin/Recover/Earth Power/Charge Beam or the like.

Pokemon with Psychic powers can do a lot of interesting things. Mainly, a lot of them get Thunderbolt or the like.

What if Claydol got Thunder?

This might let Claydol see some use on Rain teams, since Ground-types besides Gastrodon are uncommon on them and there is the 30% paralysis rate.

Claydol @ Expert Belt
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SpA
Nature: Modest
IVs: 0 Atk
-Earth Power
-Thunder
-Rapid Spin/Grass Knot
-Ice Beam

Now Claydol gets very powerful BoltBeam coverage and becomes an offensive threat. It is an alternative Electric move absorber to Thundurus-T or Jolteon that gets the strong STAB Earth Power. Claydol destroys the genies behind its solid bulk with either Thunder or Ice Beam, and it can still spin or murder Gastrodon/Swampert with Grass Knot.

In theory you could use Charge Beam in the real game but it's too weak and Claydol will die without recovery before it can accumulate enough boosts.

 

[dinodino56]

What if Latios got Focus Blast?

With Focus Blast Latios can KO all TTar sets besides the support set without Stealth Rocks. With Stealth Rocks it has a 62.5% chance of getting the KO on TTar. However, those are the calc with Life Orb. What that means you can't run Choice Set because it can easily switch in after you kill a poke. The only set you have to fear is the choice scarf set. The Choice Sets outspeeds all of Latios' sets which means you have to cautious when playing. Anyway this would be awesome.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

What if Gyarados got Roost?

Gyarados has a good defensive type, and decent bulk once you factor Intimidate. But RestTalk isn't the most reliable form of healing this gen. Roost would help Gyarados repeatably switch into stuff like Special Landours.

This would be amazing honestly, Gyarados is a great defensive Pokemon that would fit onto a lot of stall teams rather nicely, as it walls Scizor, sp-Landorus, Volcarona, and much more. How used would it really be though? Honestly not that much, I don't see it having much use on the average team, but stall teams would love this.

What if Claydol got Thunder?

/snip stuff

Lets be real here, Claydol is a terrible special attacker in pretty much every respect, why would use use it over lets say any special attacking OU Pokemon? Heck, what does it even have over Nidoqueen, another Terrakion wall with a much better chance at doing special damage.

 

[Chou Toshio]

What if Gyarados got Roost?

Gyarados has a good defensive type, and decent bulk once you factor Intimidate. But RestTalk isn't the most reliable form of healing this gen. Roost would help Gyarados repeatably switch into stuff like Special Landours.

English: Roost
Japanese: はねやすみ　＝＞　羽　休み "Rest Wings"

Pokemon that get "Rest Wings"

^Notice a trend? Give you a hint: It's not "Flying-type."


Gyarados can't Roost because it doesn't have wings. In fact, the only Pokemon that don't have wings and can use Roost are Doduo/Dodrio (though they probably have somewhere in there), and Mew. And Mew is just Mew.

 

[GCSChris]

What if Claydol got Thunder?

This might let Claydol see some use on Rain teams, since Ground-types besides Gastrodon are uncommon on them and there is the 30% paralysis rate.

I don't really see Claydol with Thunder being used on Rain teams, as it exacerbates its water weakness.

What if Cofagrigus got Recover?
It's interesting to see how many walls want Recover. It's weird to see how many great walls just don't cut it because of a lack of reliable recovery.

Anyways, OU is limited to 2 ghost types. One who is defensively frail as the "average smogon user irl", and another who is really good defensively, Jellicent, which has access to recover. However, what would happen if Cofagrigus got recover? As a wall, it is very good. I t has great bulk and access to Will-O'-Wisp, but its most reliable recovery move is rest, forcing it to run Chesto-Resto, or instead use pain split as its recovery. The followign calcs show how great a wall Cofagrigus is, and how great he would be with Recover.

252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs 0 HP/0 Def Jellicent (+Def) : 58.36% - 68.91% (2HKO)

252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs 0 HP/0 Def Cofagrigus (+Def) : 42.02% - 49.42% (3HKO).

Nice! The abailty to avoid a 2HKO from terrakion is pretty great, as it can switch in, take another hit, and Recover, something Jellicent can't do. What do you guys think?

 

[JustLetMePlay]

What if Gengar got Prankster?

Thematically, Gengar is archetypically a poltergeist-esque based pokemon so it would definitely work.

Gameplay-wise, it'd be very interesting, because now Gengar has access to Priority Sub/Disable and Priority Destiny Bond among other things. Scarfers won't be able to touch Gengar anymore and clever play will ensure one Pokemon at least will be dragged down with Gengar.